deziner

Hello, We are US family of 4 (2 teenagers) flying in and out of Zurich late May into June for 2 weeks. I had planned for us to train everywhere, but some of the travel time looks like it would be greatly shortened if we rented a car - for all or part of the journey. (picking one up from interlaken and the remaining trip seems like a good idea, but I'm not even seeing one way rentals available from there) I'm looking for advice on that and if I should make changes on locations and order of the trip for convenience. We are wanting alpine valleys and lakes with charming villages and not big on cities. Plenty of hiking but not hardcore. I've booked lodgings except first and last night, but all are changeable.

1 Saturday ZURICH ARRIVAL morning. spend day in zurich or lucerne? (will be tired and need to crash early)
2 Sunday am to lauterbrunnen/stay is in wengen [interlaken paddle boat] (are things closed on Sunday?)
3 Monday lauterbrunnen/wengen [murren, gimmewald]
4 Tuesday lauterbrunnen/wengen [Grindewald. jungfroijoch]
5 Wednesday lauterbrunnen/wengen. [Lauterbrunnen]
6 Thursday travel to zermatt/hotel in Brig. go in to zermatt only if weather is decent.
7 Friday travel to menaggio (thinking if we keep goal to see zermatt, will make that two days and one less on como)
8 Saturday menaggio
9 Sunday menaggio
10 Monday menaggio
11 Tuesday travel to apenzell
12 Wednesday apenzell
13 Thursday get back to overnight in zurich
14 Friday Zurich DEPART morning

Should I ditch trying to go to Zermatt? Since it is so long to get from Zermatt to Menaggio by train/bus? We could spend more time somewhere else after lauterbrunnen, on the way toward lake como. Also, if we had a car for that journey and the one to apenzell it's much quicker and we can more easily see little sights along the way and not have to store luggage in train stations. I'm thinking the four nights/3 days on lake como is too much; altho it is a bucket list destination. I have researched what to do in each area, but struggling with logistics. All opinions welcome! We are SO close to leaving I must button this up. THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

neckervd

Zermatt is the nicest place along your whole itinerary (of course only if the weather is fine, but that's true for Wengen and Menaggio as well).
The train ride from Brig to Lugano IS long, but it's particulaly scenic. From Domodossola you first take the panoramic Centovalli Express through a typical Italian mountain valley (over 81 briges and through 31 tunnels) up to Locarno, for many the nicest city on a North Italian lake. Then you proceeed by direct train to Lugano, the transport hub of the whole area, with it's 6 rope railways/cog wheel railways/gondolas to stunning viewpoints to lakes and Alps and finally by bus along Lake Lugano up to Menaggio, a villlage on Lake Como.
It would be a shame to travel through all these gems without a stop, but it's possible. For example:
Brig dp 7.44 - Locarno ar 10.20, dp 10.52 - Lugano ar 11.24, dp 11.50 - Menaggio ar 12.54

neckervd

Neckervd
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neckervd

In additon to what I posted 2 hrsr ago concening the 5 hrs ride from Brig to Menaggio:
MENAGGIO - APPENZELL (the worst place along you itinerary) by public transport:
For example: Menaggio dp by bus 10.40 - Lugano ar 11.46, dp by train (with dining car) 12.02 - Appenzell ar 16.30, change at Arth-Goldau and Herisau.

BTW: there is no direct road from Interlaken to Brig.
you can drive from Interlaken to Kanderrsteg (1 hr), board your car on a car shuttle train (fare about 30 USD), arrive at Goppenstein 1/2 hr later and drive from there to Brig (30 min)
Count 1 1/2 - 2 hrs for all that, according to the waiting time at Kandersteg
Interlaken - Brig by train lasts 1 hr..
Brig - Locarno by car lasts about 2 1/2 hrs (drive over the Simplon Pass and through the tousand curves in the Centovalli Valley.
Brig - Locarno by train lasts 2 1/2 hrs
Locarno - Lugano lasts 40 min by car and 30 min by train

deziner

Thank you. I do not see your first post that you mention. I just see "Thank you for posting! Your post will not be visible until a moderator has approved it for posting."

You are right: 6 hours from Menaggio to appenzell by public transport. or just 3 by car.
If we delete Zermatt, then travel by car from Interlaken to Managgio, (via Wassen) we save 3 hours v. public transport. OR keep our travel via trains and stop for a day in Lucerne to break it up.
Another change I'm considering is if we do Appenzell first. But then it is sort of out and back from Zurich. But at the end of the trip, from Menaggio, we go straight back to Zurich. I think it's the same amount of travel distance, just broken up differently.

deziner

OK. now I can see your first post. Thank you!
So we'll try for Zermatt. If we go there it seems like with the travel distance, we need to stay two nights -- or one night and then try for a stop on the pretty route you detail, like Locarno.

neckervd

Would ber a good choice. Locarno is much nicer than Menaggio anyway.

deziner

Thank you. Menaggio is just our base to explore lake Como and we like small towns. I've put 2 nights in Zermatt and 1 in Locarno, then 3 in Menaggio. Still leaves us with one full day at the end for somewhere.

My daughter is interested in the seealpsee lake hike near apenzell. If we don't go to that area, is the Kandersteg lake hike on the way to Zermatt from Wengen worth stopping at, as an alternative?? Or is there a pretty mountain lake in the Lauterbrunnen area we will see when we're staying in Wengen?

Also, it sounds like the Zermatt area hike "Gornergrat to Riffelsee and Riffelberg" might not be doable before July? Is that so, because we'll be there last days of May. What hikes could we hope to do in Zermatt that early or is that just not a good time to even go there?

deziner

My daughter was interested in the Seealpsee near Alpenzell. If we now do not go to that area, is the Kanderstag lake hike on the way to Zermatt a good thing to fit in?
I read that one of the hikes near Zermatt that we'd like: Gornergrat to Riffelsee and Riffelberg -- might not be doable at the end of May. That it is not open until July. Will that be the case with Kanderstag? Is it too early in the year to even go to Zermatt?

Also, since we've removed Alpenzell from our itinerary, we have another day open at the end of our trip and wondering where best to spend it ?

neckervd

The Seealpsee is one of the 3 lkes of Canton Appenzell. It can be surrounded on foot in less than 1 hr.
NEVER COMBINE SEEALPSEE WITH BERGGSTHAUS AESCHER. The trail between them - although signmrked as official hiking trail by the Canton of Apenzell - is too dangerous (several fatal accidents every year)
There are dozens of similar lakes all over Switzerland.
If you are looking for lakes elow mountain cliffs, you may check
Lac de Derborence

neckervd

or lake Oeschinen

deziner

Those look gorgeous! Thank you.

I'm wondering now if in 2 weeks Zermatt will still be too snowed in for visiting and hiking.... if we should try another destination then like Oeschinen, Brig and Bettmeralp

mokka4

Kandersteg and Oeschinensee are BEAUTIFUL and it looks like the gondola UP is open now.
Once up at the lake, there are several hiking options. SOME higher trails (Heuberg)/Panorama
may/will still be closed at the end of May/early June.
This lake is a UNESCO world heritage site, and would fit in nicely to your plans. I heartily recommend it.

mokka4

Gornergratbahn starts June 7 this year.
Of course, you can check matterhornparadise.ch to learn which lifts will be open and when.
Bergbahnen= mountain transport methods.

neckervd

As a general rule, the limit of snow end may will be around 2000 metres.
Gornergrat is 3100 m above sea level and most lakes above 2000 m:
Leisee 2233 mSellisee 2560 m
Grindjesee 23334 m
Mosjesee 2144 m
Griensee 2303 m
Zmuttsee 1970 m
Stafeöalpsee 2222 m
Schwarzsee 2555 m
Furggsee 2877 m
Theodulsee 2850 m
Lac Bontadini 2980 m
Lac du Tramail 2620 m
Lac des Cimes Blanches 2802 m
La Goillet 2520 m
Lac du Cpol NOrd des Cimes Blanches 2980 m
Grand Lac 2808 m
Lac de Rollin 2910 m
Pfulwesee 3040 m

deziner

Thank you, both! Excellent information! Looks like both Seealpsee and Oeschinensee are lower and on our list.

deziner

Oops - I meant Bachalpsee [not Seealpsee] which looks to be 2,265 m.

neckervd

Bachalpsee is at a sunny expopsition. Even if there is more or less snow, it's easy to reach as the gondola from Grindelwald to First runs all the year round.