Patty, I can't answer your questions--just wanted to say you've obviously gotten your husband to sign on. Good for you!

$2400 for 11 days in November sounds like a great price to me. Maybe I'll have to rethink Kenya. It sounds very reasonable.

I did look at the Makoa Farm web site. Wow. I take it you are both experienced riders? I would love to do something like that. My if-money-were-no-object itinerary involves all luxury mobile tented camping and leisure riding, etc.

OH: go to Rwanda go to Rwanda go to Rwanda. Please. Is there no way you can get blood from a stone at the bank?

Best of luck--I'm off to google all your camps.

Patty,

You are spending a good deal of time around the lakes. I have thought about a trip that focuses on the "lake district." Are you and your husband lake and water people? I am interested in your motivation for including over half of your scheduled time so far in these areas.

I would encourage Rwanda also, however late Oct to early Nov could be a bit rainy and muddy for your treks. But some of the professional photographers I ran into said they preferred the rainy season because the overcast skies made for better gorilla face shots. The contrast of black fur faces and bright sun made the gorilla facial features too dark. They were cursing the cloud-free days of July and planning a return in late October!

Patty -

I'm going to check out all your itinerary too! I think we're also going to drop Southern Tanzania for another trip - logistics are tough for the flights and it ends up expensive. I think we might substitute Elsa's (it ends up being the same price as going south!) or Il Ngwesi. Can't wait.

Thanks for sharing all your research.

Patty

Mbweha Camp - I have stayed at this camp and like the area very much but the drive to Mbweha is on a road that was being repaired so not so great. But you can access Mbweha from the park gate nearby so driving through the park with a game drive would be better.

For Lake Naivasha I would suggest you stay at Crater Lake Camp which is a romantic hideaway. I haven't heard of your choice. Try and do a boat ride to crescent island and have a picnic and a walk there.

Masai Mara - I believe I have stayed at Ilkeliani Camp. It used to be called Enkang Oloren. It has a super setting on the Talek river close to Fig Tree with easy access to the game reserve. I suggest you split 4 days between Kicheche and Ilk. However, you will need a 4-wheel drive.

Il Ngwesi - if you are going to Samburu then charter a flight direct to Il Ngwesi from Samburu or from Nanyuki. Once you have done Il Ngwesi charter a flight to Nakuru where you will meet up with your driver or can charter back to Nanyuki and drive from there to Nakuru. You can actually drive from Samburu to Il Ngwesi but need a 4x4. From Il Ngwesi you can drive to Nanyuki via Borana Lodge so you don't need to drive through Lewa. you will need to confirm all this with your operator.

Gorillas - I have been thinking of doing this for sometime and have got some good rates for Rwanda Gorilla treks including return flights from Nairobi from Vintage Africa.

Thank you all for your replies!

Leely,
I hope you'll be able to fit some time in Kenya on your next trip. I think the costs are very reasonable too. While Kenya does have its share of places that charge upwards of $1000 a night or more, there's also plenty of choices on the affordable end, something that I had a more difficult time finding when researching Tanzania. But perhaps I just didn't dig deep enough.

As far as the horseback safari, I used to ride a lot but don't do that much of it anymore. These days our riding is mostly limited to vacations. I've tried to be very upfront with them about this and what they've suggested is that we try to view game from a distance, rather than try to approach potentially dangerous game like elephants closely, which is fine with us. I think even the non-game viewing rides from the farm through the coffee plantation will be nice.

I have one more hurdle to conquer (actually 2, but the other is relatively minor) to make this trip happen and that is to find award seats using our Delta miles so we can fly in business class. My husband will only go along with the plan on the condition that we don't have to fly in economy! We spoiled ourselves last time, emptying both our FF accounts for two business class tickets and taking advantage of the free stopover to stay 4 nights in Paris on our way to Kenya. I honestly didn't imagine that I'd want to return so soon. At the time, we figured we'd have a few years to build our accounts back up before returning to Africa. Right now I'm waiting for a batch of miles to post that I'm supposed to get from opening a home equity line (the lengths I will go to just so I can travel ) which hopefully will show up in my Delta account the first week of May. The waiting is driving me nuts! After that happens, I'm going to try to put 2 tickets on hold and hope that seats are still available (I am reasonably confident). I still won't have all the miles necessary and will end up having to buy some more, which isn't inexpensive, but it's far, far less than the best price I could find of $10K for 2 legitimate (not other people's brokered awards) business class tickets. Wish me luck!

Oh and don't tempt me with the gorilla trekking, remember I have that home equity line now Just kidding, I would never actually do that. Part of the condition for getting the miles was that we had to draw the full amount of the line at closing. Of course, I wired it all back immediately, but it was nice looking at all those zeros in my bank account if only for a few days and dreaming about all of the places I could have gone

atravelynn,
We wanted a good balance of game viewing days and just kickback and relax days on our itinerary. Since the rift valley lakes are located in between Samburu and the Mara, it seemed like a logical choice to spend some extra days exploring this area. I've also read that the bird viewing around Lake Baringo is at its very best from Oct-Dec. While I wouldn't have thought of ourselves as birdwatchers before, we had a really great time doing just that on our last trip.

bigredoso,
Good luck with your plans. I'm so excited for you! You have to promise to post a trip report.

king,
Glad to hear you liked Mbweha and thanks for the tip on the best way to arrive.

Crater Lake Camp was on my original list for consideration but I thought we might prefer a change in scenery/setting having just come from Lake Baringo which is why I was leaning more toward Malewa or Malu. I may have to give it some further consideration though.

I'd wondered if Ilkeliani used to go by a different name. I'll have to do a search on its former incarnation and see what else I can find. It seems that the 2 camps are located in different enough areas to warrant splitting our stay. That's just what we may end up doing.

Our original plan was to drive from Samburu to Il Ngwesi but it sounds like this wouldn't be possible during our time frame. Is there a route from Samburu to Il Ngwesi that doesn't go through Lewa (without having to detour some distance out of our way)? My tour operator is checking on the flight options for us. If it gets too complicated or costly, we may just skip it. Something to save for another trip.

I know you probably haven't had a chance to finish your trip report but I'd love to hear a quick impression of your stay at Kipungani when you have time.

Thanks for your feedback. I really value your opinion (and this isn't meant as a slight to anyone else so I hope no one takes it the wrong way). One of my all time favorite threads on the Africa board is the one you started (and contributed to by many others) entitled Location, Location, Location. I tried to keep that in mind when planning our first trip and refer back to it often.

For anyone who hasn't come across this thread before, I think it should be required reading when planning a safari -

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=4&tid=34489939

Patty -

Can't believe I actually missed an East African thread. But it seems you got a good handle on your plans, and have received great input. The news is that you're seriously planning a return trip (as is Leely) and so soon after your first... It's so great to hear of return trips and how first-time visitors come to realize how wonderful a trip to Africa is and what an impact it has on their lives. And it looks like you may have a third trip in there if you can't coordinate Il Ngwesi this trip.

King - I'm also waiting to read the balance of your trip report?

Links for Leely (in case you haven't had a chance to search yet):

Larsens Tented Camp - I understand it's been redone since these pics - http://www.africanmeccasafaris.com/kenya/safaris/lodges/larsenscamp.asp

Mbweha Camp - http://www.vintageafrica.com/WWAWP/WWAWP.EXE/CTX_1716-0-CPxesVFcDe/JAC_LIST/SYNC_140561897

Island Camp - www.island-camp.com

Samatian Island Lodge - www.samatianislandlodge.com

Malewa River Lodge - www.malewariverlodge.com

Malu - www.malu-kenya.com

Kicheche Mara Camp - www.kicheche.com

Ilkeliani Camp (formerly Enkang Oloirien) - www.ilkeliani.com - wow, I just noticed that they've completely redone their website since yesterday!

Oops, that second link doesn't seem to work. Go to www.vintageafrica.com and on the right hand side choose Kenya under Select Accomodations, then click on Classic (right side orange bar), go down to Rift Valley and click on Mbweha Camp.

Thanks, Patty.

I'm sure these links will help a great number of people.

Even what you think may be a bit rustic (Island Camp) looks wonderfully atmospheric to me. But I have to admit Larsen's and Ilkeliani have captured my heart.

Who was the poster who said it is like being at a buffet where every choice is tempting?

(Believe it or not, I *have* to make a quick trip to Rome in May. Then I have a feeling it will be just long weekends in Tahoe for me until 2006.)

I really appreciate your willingness to share all the results of yor research with us.

Patty -

I got a price quote from Let's Go for $860 fly-in/fly out for 3 nights, each for two people to Il Ngwesi. I think we may go for it! Elsa's came in $1300 for a fly/in out package - sounds amazing, we could strech but I fear we need to set aside more for the Seychelles.

Any ideas on reasonable places to work off jet lag near Nairobi?

bigredoso -

For Nairobi, at reasonable prices you can consider:

1)The Inter-continental - an International chain hotel, but they offer reasonable prices to many in-country outfitters.
2)The Hilton - if you have Hilton Points
3)The Mayfair
4)The Jacaranda - has a pool
5)The Fairview - small family hotel with lovely gardens

More expensive, but might have "deals"

1)The Norfolk
2)The Stanley
3)The Serena
4)Safari Club


Below properties are on outskirts, and on the expensive side, but deals might be found:
1)Windsor Golf & Country Club
2)Macushla House
3)Ngong House
4)House of Waine

Not knowing your budget, it's difficult to be specific, but a Google search for "hotels Nairobi Kenya" will bring up a few hotel booking sites where you can get an idea of others available and approximate prices.

bigredoso,
Does the price for Il Ngwesi include game activities? If so, that sounds pretty good.

As for Nairobi, I've only stayed at the Hilton and will probably stay there again. It's located right in the center of the city. Just down the street is the Intercontinental. Both of these places occasionally have web rates starting around $80 a night. Just go to www.hilton.com or www.intercontinental.com.

I don't know if you have a preference for location. If you're not a city person, you might prefer staying somewhere around the southern suburbs of Karen and Langata. This area is more residential and green and has the advantage of having a lot of the usual tourist sites nearby (check this thread for things to do in Nairobi - http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=4&tid=34581311 ). The less expensive ones here are Macushla House or the Blixen Coffee Garden cottages, although I think they're still pricier than the downtown hotels.

You could try the Lonely Planet Thorntree board for less expensive suggestions.

This place also looked interesting to me - www.palacina.com - and it shows that their one bedrooms are $105 per night double occupancy. Does anyone know anything about it? I'm unsure of its location. I think it's to the east of the city. The pictures certainly make it look attractive!

How are you coming along with your other mini safaris? I noticed Ilkeliani has very reasonable fly-in rates too - $415pp for 2 nights with air and game drives if you can stay before June 30. It's located on the Talek river near Basecamp which you were also considering.

Patty & Sandi - thanks for all the posts.

I checked Orbitz and had lowest rates for Nairobi Hilton - $75. Better than Hilton's own site. Pretty good.

Il Ngwesi includes game drives - got huge difference in price quotes - Let's go cheapest.

Elsa's - still thinking about it vs. Il Ngwesi (and $1000 difference). Vintage came in cheapest so far at $1275 for 3 nights.

You've both done lots of research on the Mara camps - I'm about to book Basecamp - but if prices are similar at Ilkeliani or others then I could switch. What to do? An ideal world - small camp where we could see/hear hippos from our tent. May have to wait for Selous.

Interesting place in Lankata - was looking for places to stay in Surburb and ran across this http://www.greenbeltmovement.org/ that is a base point for "green safaris". I emailed and asked if I could stay two nights ($30/person/night)and the woman who won the Nobel Peace Prize emailed me back. I think we'll stay here at least a night to support the center and talk to this interesting woman. Will definatly trip report on this center as I can find no info on this.

Okay - gotta take a break from honeymoon planning and get back to wedding planning...

FYI if you end up at the Hilton -

There's an internet cafe right out the front door of the Hilton that charges 1 KES per minute (with a 20 KES minimum) versus the Hilton business center which is 20 KES per minute.

There's a Nakumatt store (local grocery chain) a short walk down the street. You should be able to see it from the Hilton or just ask the doorman to point you in the right direction. It's actually right across from the Stanley.

Either of those Mara camps sounds nice. I don't think you can go wrong here.

For hippos right from your tent, I don't think you could do any better than Finch Hattons, at least in Kenya. We even encountered one out of the water as we were being escorted to dinner one night. The funniest thing was the morning we were leaving Tsavo, we actually saw a hippo right on the road and it was very late for this guy to be out. He saw us coming and starting running away. The sight of this hippo galloping off was hilarious!

Our updated itinerary for Lynn (as it stands now) -

Samburu - 3 nights at Larsens
Nakuru - 1 night at Mbweha Camp
Baringo - 2 nights at Samatian Island
Naivasha - 2 nights at Malu
Mara - 4 nights split between Kicheche and Ilkeliani

12 nights total with 5 nights in the rift valley lakes. We'll also overnight in Nairobi on both ends. And after that ???

I'm waiting for Eben to return from his stay at Ndarakwai ranch before making a decision on the riding safari

Since Friday Mbweha Camp has its own website at www.mbwehacamp.com. It needs more and better pictures though.

Thanks for the reminder, Patty

I'm making an entry in my notebook: "report on horseriding!".

I am visting Makoa, Ndarakwai and Uto farm and any new upstarts.

Have you heard of Uto?

Plan is to arrive this coming weekend!
Eben

Nyamera,
Thanks for letting me know about the new website!

Eben,
I figured you'd see this before you go

I've heard of Uto farm and looked at their riding itineraries too. I haven't contacted them because it seems that they offer group trips, and we want to organize something just for the two of us (and at the same time not prohibitively costly).

I'm glad to hear you'll be visiting Makoa too. Tell Elisabeth that Patty (who's been emailing her about a possible trip in November) says 'hello'.

Any other places on your list this trip?

Thanks for the updated itinerary, Patty. I'll be interested in the riding parts of your safari.

I put some flights on hold yesterday, so here's my tentative schedule -

Nov 16 - arrive NBO at 8:25pm on KL565, transfer to Hilton
Nov 17 - visit National Museum, Sheldrick, do some shopping, I have us staying 2 nights in Nairobi as we're flying straight through this time with no stopover in Europe, this will allow us to recover from jet lag and is 'insurance' in case we mis-connect anywhere along the way
Nov 18 - undecided now*
Nov 19 - ditto
Nov 20 - Lake Nakuru/Mbweha Camp
Nov 21 - Lake Baringo/Samatian Island
Nov 22 - Lake Baringo/Samatian Island
Nov 23 - Lake Navaisha/Malu
Nov 24 - Lake Naivasha/Malu
Nov 25 - Masai Mara/Kicheche Mara camp
Nov 26 - Masai Mara/Kicheche fly camp**
Nov 27 - Masai Mara/Ilkeliani Camp
Nov 28 - Masai Mara/Ilkeliani Camp
Nov 29 - Nairobi Hilton
Nov 30 - morning flight to Kilimanjaro, Makoa Farm, afternoon horseback riding around the farm
Dec 1 - transfer from Makoa Farm to Ndarakwai Ranch fly camp for game viewing horseback rides
Dec 2 - full day riding on Ndarakwai Ranch with picnic
Dec 3 - riding on Ndarakwai Ranch, transfer back to Makoa Farm
Dec 4 - horseback riding or other activity around the farm, transfer to JRO for KL567 departing 10:20pm

I still need to confirm availability for all camps and lodges in Kenya.

I'd appreciate any thoughts and comments on the following -

*I'm now thinking of flying instead of driving to Samburu, and since I'm considering flying for this portion of our safari, I'm going to look into the logistics of staying at Il Ngwesi (in lieu of Samburu) using charter flights. Another option that's interesting to us is staying around the Aberdare region at either Sangare Ranch or Acacia Homestay in which case we would drive. Does anyone know anything about the latter? Any comments on those options?

**We're also trying to decide whether to include an overnight fly camping/safari walk option at Kicheche. It would be 3 hours of relatively easy walking each way, departing around 3pm Nov 26 and returning to the main camp approx. 10am Nov 27. Has anyone done anything similar? The walking sounds interesting. I must admit I'm not a big camper and we do have 2 nights of fly camping later on. Their description makes it sound fairly comfy though

BTW for anyone interested the cost of the horseback safari/farm stay in Tanzania including transfers to/from JRO is $1096pp. I thought that was very reasonable. We'll be staying at a private camp site set up for the two of us.

Patty:

Don't know for sure, but I'm wondering if the reason you can't drive through Lewa October - December to get to Ilingwesi is because of expected rains. That would be their "short rain" season and the roads may be impassible then.

Jan

Jan,
That's correct. Lewa is closed during the short rain period. If we decide to stay at Il Ngwesi, our best option is to charter a flight to/from Nanyuki and I'm looking into the costs.

Patty,

I'm curious, with the "final" itinerary, were you/are you and your husband able to stay within the $500 pn budget you were initally shooting for?

Thanks,
Leely

Leely,
I hope so! As of the last round of changes, our Kenya portion was $2913pp for a 12 night safari including the addition of one more night in the Mara, upgrading to Samatian Island ($83pppn), and the fly camping/safari walk option at Kicheche ($72pp).

We're now going back to a 11 night safari in Kenya (I added one more night to Tanzania). I've emailed my tour operator with some new ideas (the ones I listed yesterday) and am waiting to hear back on the costs for those options. The 2 flying options will probably put us over a bit, but I think overall we'll come close to what we initially wanted to spend. I'm hoping get our itinerary finalized shortly now that we have some actual flight dates.

I'll be posting an update.

Here's our 'final' itinerary if I can resist making further changes

Shortly after I put our flights on hold, I decided to add a one night stopover in Amsterdam instead of flying straight through. Since we're using ff miles, the best itinerary they could offer me to depart LAX on Nov 15 and arrive NBO on Nov 16 would have required 3 connections, one of which was just over half an hour in duration (apparently that meets minimum legal connect time at CVG). When I started really looking at the itinerary (instead of just being elated that I got 2 business class seats), I realized how ridiculous it looked and that if we missed our CVG connection, we'd likely miss the remainder of our flights and we still had 3 more to go!

After rational thought took over we decided to fly out of LAX on Nov 14, spend about 24 hours in Amsterdam, and fly to Nairobi on Nov 16. Tip for anyone with future Skymiles redemptions - Delta allowed the extra 'stopover' in AMS even though I already had an open jaw itinerary because there were no business class award seats to fly AMS-NBO on Nov 15. The Skymiles partner award agent I spoke with had to have it OK'd by someone in another department while I was on hold.

I hope we'll luck out and have fair weather in Amsterdam. Not planning to bring winter coats just for one day, so we'll be the couple walking around Amsterdam bundled up in layers and layers of safari attire if need be

Now that we feel better about our flight connections, we'll start our safari on Nov 17 instead of spending the first 2 nights in Nairobi.

Nov 14 - Depart LAX
Nov 15 - Arrive AMS and overnight at the Marriott near Leidseplein. Nothing much on our agenda except I want to try an Indonesian rijstafel.
Nov 16 - Morning flight from AMS arriving NBO same evening and overnight at the Hilton.
Nov 17 - Depart Nairobi for Olea Africana Lodge www.farmurlaub-afrika.de near Mweiga where we'll ease into safari in a slow and mellow way by staying 3 nights (I have terrible jetlag and the first few days are always a bit of a blur). We plan to visit Aberdare NP, Solio Ranch and go on some horseback rides (practice for the upcoming Tanzanian portion )
Nov 20 - Depart Olea Africana for Lake Nakuru and overnight at Mbweha Camp www.mbwehacamp.com. I think this is our only opportunity for a night game drive on this trip.
Nov 21 - Depart Lake Nakuru for Lake Baringo and spend 2 nights at Samatian Island Lodge www.samatianislandlodge.com on an island in the middle of the lake. Here no game drives but rather boat rides, bird viewing and visits to local villages. We may also visit Lake Bogoria on our way to or from Lake Baringo if time permits.
Nov 23 - Depart Lake Baringo for the Lake Naivasha region and spend 2 nights at Malu www.malu-kenya.com in the hills above Naivasha. More opportunities for some riding practice.
Nov 25 - Depart Lake Naivasha for Masai Mara and spend our first 2 nights at Kicheche Mara Camp www.kicheche.com. On our second night, weather permitting, the plan is to go on a walking safari, overnight at Kicheche fly camp, and walk back the following morning. Then we'll transfer to Ilkeliani Camp www.ilkeliani.com for the remaining 2 nights.
Nov 29 - Back to Nairobi and the Hilton, some shopping and a visit Sheldrick if they're still allowing adoptive parents to stop in on late afternoons.
Nov 30 - 10:00am flight to Kilimanjaro where we'll be picked up by Makoa Farm www.makoa-farm.com for a farm stay/horseback safari for 4 nights in the vicinity of south and west Kilimanjaro.
Dec 4 - Evening flight from Kilimanjaro back to LAX (straight through, no stopovers this direction). By my calculation it's somewhere around 29 hours from first flight take off to last flight landing. I'll spend the time alternating between sleeping and planning the next trip

Cost breakdown as follows -

2 business class tickets LAX-NBO/JRO-LAX, 120K Delta Skymiles each plus tax
1 night Marriott Amsterdam using Marriot Reward points
2 nights Hilton Nairobi using Hilton HHonors points
12 night Kenya safari including all transfers $2656pp
NBO-JRO one way flight on Precision Air $202pp
4 night private horseback safari in Tanzania $1096pp

I booked our Kenya safari through Eastern & Southern Safaris in Nairobi which we used last time and confirmed we'll have the same guide (yay!). I booked our horseback safari directly with Elisabeth at Makoa Farm.

If anyone has stayed at Olea Africana or Samatian Island, I'd love to hear your comments. Those are the only two I haven't heard first hand reports about.

16 weeks and counting down!

Wow, Patty, this looks like a great itinerary!

We are using FF miles for business class too (120FF miles each on NW/KLM), leaving in November a few days later than you (flying into Kilimanjaro rather than Nairobi though) & we also decided to stay over in AMS overnight on the way there. Hopefully we will be a little less jetlagged as we start our safari.

We are staying at the Sheraton which is connected to AMS Schiphol airport -- decided we'll just get off the plane, dump our bags at our hotel room, then take the train into Amsterdam for some sightseeing and a good meal, then head back to our hotel room at the airport for the night. That way we will already be at the airport for our flight out the next morning & won't have to get up so early (we're not very good "morning people").

But AMS in November is definitely putting a cramp in our packing plans! Didn't really want to bring a coat...

lisa,
We debated back & forth over whether to stay at Schiphol or in town too. From the comments I received on the Europe board, it sounded like the cab ride to/from the Marriott wasn't too long. It's been ages since I've been in Amsterdam (and the last time I arrived by train) and will be my husband's first time there, so I thought we'd prefer an in city stay. I'll likely be wide awake at 4:00am anyway

Your trip looks fantastic too! If we only had 3 extra weeks...

Patty,

Congrats on nailing down all the details. It really looks like a fabulous itinerary, and how wonderful to have the same guide. Let's face it, the guide is the most important thing, and you already know, trust and like "your guy."

Sounds like so much fun. In another couple of years I might just copy this exactly!

Patty -

On our '98 trip we did a stop over in AMS on our way to Africa. We traveled the week of Thanksgiving and while it was still warm in NYC we're glad we took a thermal tee for under a heavy cotton crewneck, a pashmina, pair of gloves, socks and wore a mid-season (for Fall-type temps) anorak.

It was downright cold in AMS, especially early morning and late afternoon into night... and we had rain showers in the afternoon. As with Africa there is no guarantee re weather, but be prepared.

Even though we didn't need any of these heavier items for Africa and then the Seychelles, we're glad we packed what we did or we would have been miserable especially when you see your breath in the air.

The anorak served if we had cool mornings/nites in Africa - which we didn't, the thermal tee doesn't take up space, the cotton crew and pashmina I wore on the plane. So it wasn't that much overpacking.

And we hoped we'd be set when we returned to NYC in December, but sure enough the day we arrived home the temp was in the mid80s!!! Weather, who knows.

Just something to think about.

sandi,
Yep, you just never know with the weather do you? We've traveled in northern Europe in November and have encountered 30 degree Farenheit days with snow flurries interspersed with 60 degree and sunny days on the same trip! We're hoping our one day in AMS will be more like the latter than the former

Then there was the time I was in AMS in August and had to buy a jacket on arrival because it was so rainy and cold.

In lieu of a coat, my plan is to pack a long sleeve silk undershirt, a lightweight cashmere sweater, a light fleece jacket and a cashmere shawl. The fleece jacket and shawl I brought last time and would be bringing anyway, like you said works well for cooler mornings and evenings on safari and on the plane rides (better than the icky polyester blankets they provide ). The undershirt and sweater won't take up much room or add much weight, and I'll probably end up wearing the sweater on the plane also. I'm bringing my paddock boots for riding, so those will double as walking around boots in AMS

Last time we left one huge suitcase full of winter clothes that we wore in Paris at the Hilton, but since we have to fly from NBO to JRO this trip and are limited to 20kg each, I'm trying to pack light (which is not easy for me!). I'm hoping they'll overlook an extra kilo or two

Talk about packing dilemma, it was recommended to us that we bring full chaps to wear on the safari rides. I still haven't decided what to do. If we bring chaps, we're going to have to find other stuff to throw out of our bags. We may compromise and just use the half chaps that they provide. Elisabeth also advised me not to bring my newest pair of jodphurs. I thought it was funny as having never been much of an English rider, I don't own a single pair of jodphurs (don't even really know how to spell the word).

Geez, it's hard enough to pack for Africa -- I don't know what I'd do if I had to worry about chaps & jodphurs!

Who was it who said "Beware of any enterprise that requires new clothes"? (My father used to always tease my mother for taking up new sports as an excuse to go shopping for the required outfits...)

Funnily enough, even though I'm not much of a "shopper", this does not seem true when it comes to shopping for safari -- I'm having a ball -- as far as my wardrobe is concerned, khaki is the new black.

OMG, too funny. Chaps and jodhpurs.

And it never even crossed my mind--of course they ride English.

lisa,
Lately I've found that the only new clothes I buy are in khaki & olive colors!

Leely,
Makoa Farm told me they have a variety of tack and that we'd probably get Australian stock saddles or some other trail type saddle since we're used to western saddles. I think most of the other riding outfits in that area provide English tack as the majority of guests seem to be Germans and Brits.

A couple of business class award seats opened up today on the Nov 15 KL AMS-NBO flight, so I grabbed them! The connections aren't too bad, we fly LAX-ATL-AMS-NBO with comfortable layovers in between. This eliminates our overnight in AMS and is much better than the best straight through itinerary they could offer us 2 months ago. This simplifies the packing a bit. Now what to do with our extra day?

Good for you, Patty. An extra day...hmm, is it at the beginning or the end of your trip?

I am trying to decide whether or not to build in an extra day or 2 myself. Finger on the "purchase" trigger on NWA/KLM website.

Patty:
Congrats on the new ff tickets and have fun planning your extra day. Your itinerary looks great and at such a reasonable price--very impressive.

An ff question since you are so good at it.
How did you learn that the Nov. 15th seats opened up? Did you continue to monitor the NW website that you use? Did they let you change your itinerary without a penalty? Thanks.

Oh, another ff question, Patty. I've been drafted to buy the air tix for my party of three. Would it be worth it for me to join NWA's ff program even though I don't fly very often? My friends said, "Oh go ahead, join and get our tix for us; you can have the miles."

Leely,
My extra day is at the beginning. We were originally scheduled to arrive in NBO on Nov 16 and now we arrive on Nov 15. As much as I'm tempted to add another safari day, I think what we could really use is a day to just chill after 24+ hours of travel, so we might stay in Nairobi.

There's no reason not to sign up for a NW Worldperks account for each of you. I think SFO-NBO/JRO is almost 10K miles each direction, so that's close to 20K miles for one roundtrip. You never know when you might fly NW again (or any of their partners which you could credit your flight miles to Worldperks). Plus there are all sort of promos aside from flying where you can earn additional miles to top off your account. If you have the time, you can check out the Worldperks forum over at flyertalk.com (I'm not that familiar with NW WP myself). You'll find everything you ever wanted to know about the program and more

bat,
I've been checking the NW Japan site regularly for seat availability on the Nov 15 flight. Saturday was the first time it showed business award seats available, so I called the Delta partner desk immediately to change my reservations. The change fee was $50 per ticket which I thought was worth paying since we didn't really want to spend the night in AMS to begin with, it was just the best routing I could find at the time. Right after I got off the phone with Delta, I checked the NW site again and it now showed zero business award seats, so we got the only 2 seats and my obsessive checking paid off

Patty:
I agree completely--definitely worth $50 and obsession can come in handy!

Let me ask you another question since we are both flying Delta/KLM. Delta gave me seat assignments for the Delta flights but told me I had to get my other seat assignments directly from KLM. When I called (in the U.S. it was NW answering) they told me that I had to check back closer to the flight date--I cannot recall at the moment how far ahead she told me.

My only concern is that my partner's and my tickets are booked separately so that the ff miles could be taken from each separate account--and obviously, I definitely want to sit together. So I would like to have that pinned down.

What is your understanding about getting seat assignments for the KLM round-trip? Thanks alot.

bat,
I believe KLM still assigns seats at 90 days prior to departure. I plan to call later this week for my outbound flights and call back next month for my return. My husband and I are also on 2 different record locators as we had to ticket out of separate Skymiles accounts. That shouldn't be a problem as you should be able to just give KLM your flight number and passenger names. I'll let you know for sure later. This was the procedure last year.

Are you flying to/from JRO?

Thanks Patty, I feel reassured. So we have to make two calls--one for the in-bound and one for the out-bound. We are flying into JRO and out of Dar (thanks to your earlier advice that we did not need to return to Arusha from Zanzibar).

Yep, it's still 90 days. I just got my seat assignments for the ATL-AMS flight on Nov 14. I have to wait until tomorrow for our AMS-NBO flight. I spoke with NW/KL international reservations. They can look up your reservation by date/flight/name. Once they locate it, ask them to give you your NW/KL record locators (they're different than the DL locators). Then you can just give them those when you call back.

I believe the AMS-JRO/DAR flight is still operated on the MD-11. Here's the seat map -

http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/KLM/KLM_MD-11.php

Thanks Patty--that was very thoughtful of you to post the seating map (and I wondered which plane it would be).

Patty-

My wife and I have been hoarding skymiles for two years to get business tickets to Africa. We're would like a little over two weeks between mid-Aug and early September but are flexible on exact dates. I've already learned quite a bit from your posts but I'm still a bit intimidated by the prospect of getting those tickets. Would you mind indulging a newbie with some advice on the ins and outs of FF tickets to Africa?

1. Since you can only book 331 days out, do you wait to inquire until that many days prior to the return flight, or is it possible to lay claim to a particular outbound flight earlier?

2. In the spring I got a Skymiles ticket from Atlanta to Juneau via their new relationship with AK Airlines, but it involved a long time with the reservations agent. Is that just b/c the route was new, or should I plan on spending 45 min plus on the phone? Any general tips on how to handle that call?

3. What's this NW Japan site you mentioned, and what other sites would you recommend to figure out flight itineraries?

I would really appreciate any advice and I apologize in advance if these questions are naive. I've done a little research on the FF topic but I know I could be better informed. Thanks.

-Matt

Matt,
I'd be glad to try to help in any way I can. Which country in Africa is your intended destination? How many Skymiles do you currently have? If you can answer those questions, I may be able to provide more specific advice.

1. It's possible to put an award reservation on hold for 14 days. If your itinerary is 2 weeks or less, you can call for your outbound seats, put them on hold, and call back later to try to secure your return seats. You don't have to wait until your return dates fall within the 331 day period. If your trip is over 2 weeks, you may be able to get another extension after your initial 14 day hold. I say 'may' because that used to be the policy (granting the extension) but recently I've been hearing that Delta is tightening up on award holds, so I would check with Delta directly. I haven't needed an extension beyond 14 days recently so haven't had the opportunity to test it out.

Also 331 days is just the first day you can call, that doesn't necessarily mean that all possible award seats are loaded at that time. Award inventory changes constantly up until the day of flight departure. That said, it's always a good idea to start checking for award seats as early as possible if you have firm plans. I've actually never tried calling at the 331 day mark. I normally book my awards 3-6 months in advance. So if at first you don't find anything available, keep trying, it's not hopeless.

2. When you call Delta, speak with the Partner Award desk. These agents are most knowledgeable on partner carriers and routing possibilities and can check award seat availability on Delta and all Delta partners. It still may involve a long time on the phone since there are many different carriers and routing options to check.

3. Unfortunately the Delta website only checks for award availability on Delta operated and not partner operated flights, so I use a Northwest site to gather the information I need.

I prefer their Japan based site because I find its award search capability more user friendly. In my opinion, the award search functionality of the US based NW site just isn't as good even though they're both supposed to access the same inventory.

Here's the link to the NW Japan site -

http://book3.nwa.com/jp/booking/asp/availabilityQuery.asp?AWARDS=YES&TYPE=NEW

Click on 'English' in the upper right corner if you see Japanese characters. At the bottom there's a pull down box to select Standard (for Northwest/KLM), Air France, Delta, Continental, etc. depending on which carrier you want to check for seat availability. Do not choose Rulebuster as you don't have that option available to you when redeeming Skymiles. The rest should be mostly self-explanatory, but if you have any questions, please ask.

If seats are available, the flight choice(s) will display on the following page along with a list of classes of service (economy, business, etc.). A circle next to a particular class of service indicates that there are award seats available in that class of service.

While the actual purpose of the site is for the redemption of NW Worldperks miles, I've found that with very minor exception it's the same inventory that you would have access to if using Delta Skymiles.

I also check segment by segment to piece an itinerary together. None of these award booking engines are very good at producing results if you input a complex itinerary. So for instance, I would check LAX-AMS, AMS-NBO, etc. each as a separate search. Once I find availability on all of the segments I need, I call the Delta Partner award desk to reserve my seats. You cannot reserve online.

A few other pointers -

With a Delta/Multi Airline award you can mix and match any combination of Skyteam carriers (Delta, Air France, KLM, Continental, Northwest, Czech, etc.) My current itinerary using a 120K mile award looks like this -

Delta LAX-ATL
KLM ATL-AMS-NBO/JRO-AMS
Air France AMS-CDG-LAX

If you're planning to use a non-Skyteam partner airline award such as a South African Airways award, then you're limited to combining 2 airlines at most (SAA plus a Delta connection to the gateway city, if necessary). I don't know where to look for SAA award availability online. BTW SAA is supposed to be joining Sky Alliance soon, so may end their relationship with Delta.

Familiarize yourself with all of the available carrier and routing options for your origin/destination.

You're able to waitlist (for a different flight or different class of service) Delta operated flights, but you cannot waitlist partner operated flights, so you'll have to check/call back periodically.

You're allowed one stopover or one open jaw on an award itinerary, but not technically both. A stopover is defined as a connection of 12 hours or longer on an international award itinerary. If there are no award seats in your class of service, they may allow a connection of longer than 12 hours (in addition to one included stopover or open jaw) based on the 'first available flight' exception. Some agents may not automatically offer you this option, so you have to ask.

You're not facing an easy task. August/September is high season for transatlantic flights, so if you're routing through Europe, you're competing with lots of other passengers trying to redeem awards to Europe. August/September is also high season for East Africa destinations. I'm not sure about Southern Africa.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions. Best of luck!

Patty-

Thanks so much for all the information. I feel much more prepared to attack the situation now. In answer to your question about where in Africa and how many miles, I would say my first choice is Kenya in hopes of catching the migration, and we also wanted to try see some primates. I was thinking of trying to fly into Entebbe, see Chimps in Kibale and swing through Queen Elizabeth on the way to gorilla trekking in Rwanda, Bwindi, or both. Then we'd fly from Kigali to NBO and spend a week or so in Kenya. I definitely want 3+ days in the Mara but I haven't settled on where else would be a must see. Then we'd fly home out of NBO.

Having said that, we are pretty flexible. If East Africa is impossible that time of year, I would opt instead for a mobile safari in Botswana, perhaps looking for an open jaw to spend a day or two in Capetown. I can't tell from the SAA website if they are officially in Star Alliance now or not, but I know that their previous arrangement with Delta expired at the end of '04, so they must have renewed something. I'm hoping that, in the words of someone on flyertalk, SAA can continue to "sleep around."

I currently have just over 130,000 miles and my wife has just over 137,000. Hopefully Delta's continued financial troubles will not render this all moot. Thanks again for all of your help and I would definitely appreciate any other advice you may have to offer.

-Matt

For East Africa you're pretty much limited to KLM into Nairobi or Entebbe on a single award for 120K miles. If you can't get seats out of NBO, try JRO (Kilimanjaro) as an alternate. You'll need to purchase your own ticket NBO-JRO.

Flying into South Africa opens up more choices. SAA, KLM, Air France are all possibilities at the 120K level. AF also has a first class option for 160K. I believe the SAA award includes a connection to other southern Africa countries as well.

You can also redeem a Virgin Atlantic Upper Class award to South Africa but the cost is 180K.

Other options using multiple awards at higher mileage levels (if you're able to accumulate more between now and when you redeem) -

SAA to East Africa via Johannesburg - 120K + 50K

Delta/SAA to South Africa via Sao Paulo - 90K + 80K

Delta/Malaysia to South Africa via Buenos Aires - 90K + 100K

Emirates to East or South Africa via Dubai - 120K + 95K or 145K

This last combination might be really stretching it value wise considering the flight from Dubai to Nairobi is only something like 5 hours(?). I'd probably consider the Emirates award in combination with a purchased DXB-NBO economy class ticket.

There's also a first class award on Emirates to Dubai for 160K. Have you read the article in the September issue of Conde Nast Traveler? Private sleeping pods in FC on the JFK-DXB A340-500. I may have to save up my miles for this award next, though I'd hate to get used to flying this way

Those are the award possibilities that I can think of. I may have missed a few. Some of the latter combinations might make for interesting stopovers.

FT has a wealth of info as well. Good luck!

Keep an eye out for Kenya Airways as well. They're supposed to be joining Skyteam as an associate member. I have no idea if and when that will translate into redemption for Skymiles members, but I'll be watching for any news.

My wife and I are also planning a trip to Kenya/Tanzania suing Skymiles. She had one itenarary on hold that was 80K Skymiles each using Amsterdam as the free sopover and flying into Nairobi. Currently we are looking at using the Round-the-world award (120K each) Lisbon-Amersterdam-(in to Nairobi)-(out of Dar Es Salaam)-Amsterdam-Bangkok.

kingfish,
I've never used Skymiles for a RTW award, so I have a question for you. I've always assumed that the no backtracking rule would make the AMS-NBO/DAR-AMS impossible to include on a RTW itinerary as you would be traveling west-east/east-west. Is this not the case? I have to admit I haven't really done much research on allowable RTW award itineraries.

Also I believe it's 140K in economy, is it not?

Patty-

Sorry to resurrect this thread but I had few more questions. Your tips on searching for award tickets were extremely helpful and I found a few options for flights to East Africa from AMS. In particular there was a direct flight into EBB around the time that we wanted to go. Since this flight is only three days a week, I'd like to grab it.

The problem is that there seem to be no award tickets for flights from East Africa back to AMS or LHR. I've even backed up several weeks prior to my departure and I've found nothing, which makes me think that returns aren't going to just pop up in the next week or two. Is it possible to book the outbound flight only and then pay a fee to add the return flight when it becomes available? I would rather not pay the extra money but I'd feel much worse if those outbound seats had vanished by the time the return seats came around.

On an unrelated note, I appreciated the link (www.porini.com) that you gave to lyban regarding Mara flying safaris. It gave me a much better sense of the step-ups in price for the various camps. The prices struck me as lower than some I had seen on lodge websites (especially Mara Intrepids), so I was wondering how realistic they were. In booking Kicheche and Ilkeliani for your trip, were you able to negotiate pretty close to those rates? Thanks again for all of your help and advice.

-Matt

Matt,
I'm not sure about ticketing just a one way. I've never tried doing that. I'd ask the partner award agents if you'd have any problems converting a ticketed one way award to a roundtrip later.

Do you have your outbound on hold right now? I'd keep checking during the hold period and try asking for additional extensions on your hold. Hope for a sympathetic agent

The other way is to ticket your reservation with any return date that's available for right now (if there are any) and pay a change fee later. The award change fee is $50 per ticket.

Sorry I don't have any better suggestions. It's not easy to find award seats on KL in high season. Don't give up yet though. Good luck!

To address the second part of your post, I've never booked through Gamewatchers Safaris but they seem to be a reputable operator, so I don't think they would post prices that they weren't able to offer. It's very possible that a tour operator may be able to offer rates lower than what's posted on a lodge or camp's own website. And not every tour operator will offer the same rates for any given camp.

Are you looking at the flying package rates for Kicheche and Ilkeliani? It's a bit hard for me to compare my rates as we're doing an all drive safari and utilizing our tour operator's vehicle and guide for our game drives and those rates listed are for flying packages with game activities provided by the camps. Both Ilkeliani and Kicheche list flying packages rates on their own websites if you want to look at those for comparison. I don't know if this answers your question. I've asked my tour operator for a cost breakdown and can post what each night at Kicheche and Ilkeliani is costing us when I get those figures.

Let's try this again and see if it will post this time...

Here's the final tweak to our itinerary. After we were able to change our air reservations to fly in a day earlier, we decided to spend our first two nights at El Karama Ranch in Laikipia. I became interested in the place after coming across these pics -

http://www.jameswarwick.co.uk/elkarama/

Of course, MY photos will look nothing like that

I'm looking forward to the variety of activities available on the ranch (day and night game drives, safari walks, horse riding, etc.) and most of all, the privacy.

So our final, final (really ) itinerary is as follows -

Nov 14 - depart LAX at 9:40am for NBO (via ATL/AMS)
Nov 15 - arrive NBO at 8:25pm, transfer to Hilton
Nov 16/17 - El Karama Ranch/Laikipia
Nov 18/19 - Olea Africana Lodge/Mweiga
Nov 20 - Mbweha Camp/Lake Nakuru
Nov 21/22 - Samatian Island Lodge/Lake Baringo
Nov 23/24 - Malu/Lake Naivasha
Nov 25/26 - Kicheche Mara Camp/Fly Camp/Masai Mara
Nov 27/28 - Ilkeliani Camp/Masai Mara
Nov 29 - Nairobi Hilton
Nov 30 - morning flight to JRO, transfer to Makoa Farm/Kilimanjaro area
Dec 1/2/3 - horseback/camping safari on Ndarakwai Ranch
Dec 4 - depart JRO at 9:45pm for LAX (via AMS/CDG)
Dec 5 - arrive LAX at 3:55pm
Dec 6 - plan next safari

The cost for our revised 13 night Kenya portion is $2907pp.

I also broke down and bought a new pair of chaps last weekend. I thought it was better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them. I found a very thin, lightweight pair that take up about the same amount of room as a pair of jeans and weigh in at only 2 lbs.

Rocco may have The Vest, but I have The Riding System -

http://www.kodakgallery.com/I.jsp?c=jy877nh.b8qe9ud9&x=0&y=ger7iw

This is one of those moments when I'm very happy I use a point and shoot camera Can't imagine how I'd be able to carry anything bigger!

The second pic is one that Elisabeth sent of a recent safari.

I can't believe we're leaving in 5 weeks!

Patty:
Congrats on the final tweaking. It looks like a great trip and at a great price. Love the chaps photo--armed and dangerous!

I so rarely get a chance to say this: Nice chaps!

Patty, this looks like a VERY interesting trip. I’m already looking forward to the trip report.

Thanks for showing the chaps. I’d put the camera more towards the back. I’m too envious to comment the fact that you’ll be riding among elephants.

Thanks, Nyamera. I'll try that out.

Patty,

How did you like Larsen's? How does it rank amongst the tented camps you've stayed at?