Howdy moonininjuly...
What would help before we all start weighing in where you should/could go and what you should/could do and see is a few things to hone down what your priorities are.
1) Is wildlife the top priority or is it culture, people, landscapes - are you adrenalin junkies or is the beach you favourite destination?
2) What kind of acomodation would suit you two best?
eg. Camping out (serviced) or Canvas (permamnet) lodge or upmarket 5 star "lodge" accomodation?
3) If you are on honeymoon - how much 'time alone" & privacy are you expecting?

I know this sounds like the Third degree - but will help with clarifying what you want and what we can reccomend.
Cheers
Thembi

Those are good questions, Thembi. We would definitely like to see wildlife and natural, scenic beauty/ landscapes. That is a priority. Culture and people would be interesting, as well. We both like to hike (moderate difficulty). Other than that, the husband-to-be is more of an adrenaline junky than I am. He's a pilot and loves adventure (he wants to do a shark dive). I'm more of a scaredy-cat. Opposites attract! We're not huge beach people, but since it's a honeymoon, relaxing for a couple of days might be nice. At first we were thinking of spending a few days in Mauritus, but now I'm thinking there might not be enough time to get to the islands. I don't want to miss out on the African experience to go to the beach, but if it fits in, we wouldn't mind lounging a couple of days, especially if it is a beautiful beach place. As far as accommodation type, I would prefer the most luxurious I could do for the $. I understand that we probably haven't budgeted enough for super luxurious. I would be willing to camp, as long as it's not too rustic. (Are the bucket showers just pouring a bucket of water over my head?) As far as privacy, well, we don't prefer to feel like we're on a tour bus with a big group, but we'd be okay encountering other travelers throughout the experience. We'd like as authentic a travel experience as possible. We love off-the-beaten path experiences. We are not the McDonalds/ Euro-Disney/ Four Seasons type travelers.

Got cut off by accident. Also wanted to stay that we do not want to do too much work trying to figure out how to navigate unfamiliar places, since it is our honeymoon. So, hopefully that gives you a sense of who we are and what we are looking for.

moonininjuly

"South African safari, cape Town, Botswana and the mokoro boats, Namibia's desert, the beach." you can't do all - got to narrow it down

The best tip i have for u at this stage, is to read a couple of trip reports
use the search box above & type "Botswana trip report" "Namibia trip report" etc'

aby

Contact CC Africa at www.ccafrica.com
They have lots of locations in various African countries, fantastic service and accommodations at very reasonable prices, will arrange all transportation for you if you wish and can set up various parks/reserves in one trip. I recently stayed at one of their lodges and highly recommend them. You won't be disappointed - they treat their guests like they're the most important people in the world and are full of great surprises during your stay (especially if you're on a honeymoon).
Cheers!
Viv
viv@wavejourney.com

moonininjuly - a bucket shower is not a bucket of water poured over your head! After a long day of wildlife viewing a bucket shower is BLISS. It is a bucket, but it has a shower rose in the bottom of the bucket - you stand underneath it, turn on by twisting the shower rose and turn off in reverse. Bucket is filled with deliciously hot water!

We have not travelled extensively (only one safari so far) - but do know that Botswana is at the high end of the market and lots of flights which add to the cost. Maybe not this trip.

If shark dive and wildlife and relaxing and with your budget, South Africa would be ideal.We are planning our next trip for 2008 and have been quite astounded at the price difference between the two countries - that said we would highly reccommend Botswana too!

There are recent trip reports for Madikwe NP - that sound just fantastic accomodation and wildlife wise. We loved Capetown when we were there on the end of our last trip - lots to do and see and a good base for the Shark Dive and other activities.

In South Africa we have heard good things about Madikwe. Here is a link to PredatorBioligists trip report
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=4&tid=34780788
and another quick report from a recent traveller wavejourney
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=4&tid=34961219

It is a pity it looks like you will miss the Vic Falls - maybe next time

But, how to narrow it down, Aby? It all sounds wonderful.

I'll check out the CC Africa. Thanks, Viv.

moonininjuly - are you in Australia? just noticed you seem to be answering in Aus daytime. Can recc. an excellent Travel Agent to help with your plans if you are.

MooninJuly,

Congrats on your wedding and especially your choice of honeymoon location.

Not trying to push any agents with my links, just trying to give you an idea of some itineraries that cover some of what you wanted and the costs associated with those trips.

12-Day Safari to South Africa, Botswana and Zimbabwe
http://www.africa-adventure.com/programs/prg_combo05.html

11 Day South African Safari and Cape Highlights
http://www.africa-adventure.com/programs/prg_southafrica01.html

Highlights of Southern Africa
http://www.e-gnu.com/shop/setMenu/itinDetails.asp

Some assorted thoughts.

Elephant Plains in the Sabi Sands of South Africa has come up as a reasonably priced option in this game rich area. I've not been there myself.

You can fly Johannesburg-Windhoek pretty easily and that would allow you to stay in the Namib desert. Most itineraries that spend a week or so in Namibia allot 2 nights here. If this were your only Namibia stop, I'd do 3.

A favorite for Cape Town on this board is Selwyn. His website is I love Cape Town. For July 2008 I am working with Take 2 Tours, which work closely with the shark viewing company I'm using.
Even if you skip the winelands in Cape Town (which I'm doing too) there is plenty to see.

Botswana starts getting pricey. Victoria Falls combines nicely with Chobe in Botswana and Chobe is one of the less pricey places. You can stay in hotels which are less expensive than more remote tented camps. You can still get out into the wilderness on your drives, plus the Chobe River has some amazing wildlife action in it.

Hope you get some good recommendations on Australian agents. In the meantime, just to talk with or email some agents who can narrow your choices and educate you, you can try these:

Fish Eagle (US)
Eyes on Africa (US)
Africa Adventure (US)
ATR Africa Travel Resource (UK)

You could google them.

Good luck

hi, moonininjuly - [great name!]

first of all congrats - wish we'd thought of that for our honeymoon.

as that was rather a long time ago, we now have offspring, and they want to go places too, so we are off the south africa for first time this year [july 18-31] with kids aged 19 & 16.

I recognise that we are therefore a rather different group to you, but i've gone through the same process of try ti decide between east and south africa where to go within our chosen destination, etc.

we have ended up with the following:

4 nights CPT [waterfront radisson - one day table mountain and kirstenbbosch gardens, one day tour to the cape, one day tour to winelands]

2 nights Grootbos [western garden route, whale watching, nature walking etc.]

3 nights Hog hollow [eastern garden route, horse riding, tree walking, abseiling [kids, not me] ]

1 night Schotia game reserve
2 nights Shamwari game reserve, both in eastern cape. [we get 3 nights at CPT radisson on the waterfront free thrown in]

The 12 nights have worked out at approx U$ 2000 each adult; schotia, shamwari and Grootbos are both full board, and schotia and shamwari include game drives, etc.

we could have gone to Kruger instead of schotia/Shamwari, but that would have pushed the costs up a lot, as there are four of us.

Grootbos is very high end - looks fabulous for a honeymoon! - but there are loads of other choices, and the winelands scenery alone looks terrific - franschoek has got some lovely hotels and restaurants.

good luck!

regards, ann

I am planning on going to South Africa in 2008, and will be spending (hopefully!) 14 nights there, and it is not enough! I would definitely concentrate on one country, and cut down on travelling time and flights. I went to Namibia in 1999 and spent two weeks there - it was not enough!! It is a fantastic country - Etosha, the Namib desert, Cape Cross, etc, you could easily spend the whole holiday there! I would recommend researching on internet/this board, and you should soon come up with an itinerary you like. Happy hunting!!!

Check out this thread that is not far from yours. I have not heard of that particular agent before and the poster does not have other posts, but it is yet another itinerary for you to digest.

http://fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=4&tid=34962336

Thanks for all of the really great advice. Just to clear up, I'm coming from the USA, not Australia. I'm not sure why the time posted as otherwise. Maybe I need to adjust some settings?

One more question for Annhig. Where did you find the Radisson/ shamwari deal. Did you book independently or throgh an agent? If you booked independently, how do you get from place to place and manage transfers? Rent a car?

hi, moonininjuly,

we found the shamwari deal throguh our agent at Bushbaby travel, in the UK. However, I did find some similar deals on a web-site - but I don't know which one. Try googling Shamwari - you may get through to it that way.

Our agent has arranged car hire for us, which we intend to use to explore the CPT region, and then drive the garden route.

there seem to be a number of companies who will provide tours/transport for you, but ordinary car hire seems pretty standard, so far as i can tell from my researches. you may get some help from OPs if you post your specific queries.

good luck!

regards, ann

hi again, moonininjuly,

i just found the web-site that has the offers on it including the deal we are doing - www.southernafricatravel.co.uk. They are doing one with a hotel in Franschoek [in the winelands] which would be great for a honeymoon, IMO.

good luck!

regards, ann

Any thoughts on whether to prioritize Sabi Sands, Madikwe, Phinda, Grootbos, or Hluhluwe-Umfolozi? Are all private reserves around Kruger created equal?

The sabie sand wildtuin is a game rich area where you have an equal chance of seeing all its fabulous game no matter where you stay.

The price tag that you see is indicative of the level of luxury and pampering you will receive. Of course cuisine and complimentary beverages also increase the tariff. The myth is that if there is a spa you will be paying more, which is not necessarily so as the spas charge extra for their services.

In some instances the game viewing expereience can be compromised where lodges share traversing, but that is not really a factor as it seems that virtually all the sabie sand lodges respect the game and seldom allow more than four vehicles to a sighting of one of the big five. All do go off road and all will do night drives and offer bush walks.

The differentiating point for the safaris is guide/ranger selection and training. Most of the older names have well established ranger training programs and consequently boast the more skilled staff.

Some tough choices, which ultimately your ego and budget, emotion and hopefully common sense will dictate where you do end up. One thing is certain though: you are unlikely to be dissapointed if you are after some great photo opportunities and close encounters with wildlife.

Sabi Sands-most wildlife action

Madikwe-best place for wild dogs, also the elusive brown hyena, it is fenced

Phinda-cheetah reserve, 7 habitats within, you can do different activities like rhino tracking, village visits, aerial marine wildlife viewing, etc., it is fenced

Grootbos--don't know
Hluhluwe-Umfolozi--don't know

I choose Sabi Sands and Phinda for June-July of 2007.

hi, moomininjuly,

can't help with what the kruger reserves are like as we've not been. however, you have included grootbos within your list, [possibly the fault of one of my posts]and it is completely different so far as I can gather- being a private nature reserve along the garden route offering whale watching, fynbos walks, bird-watching etc., but nothing directly to do with a safari as such.

As we are going to SA at the same time, I'm not able to tell you whether it lives up to expectations, unfortunately.

regards, ann

Anyone have a preference between Madikwe and Mashatu?

Madikwe and Mashatu. Mashatu Game Reserve is a private game reserve (in Botswana) that has two camps managed by the Rattrays group. They have an excellent reputation. Madikwe is also a game reserve (in South Africa) that has around 20 independent lodges/camps. So you can "say" Mashatu and you have defined the camp pretty well. But you can not say Madikwe without saying Mateya Safari Lodge, or Madikwe Hills, or Morukuru Lodge, or Royal Madikwe, etc.
Hope that helps avoid some confusion later on.
regards - tom

hello Thembi! It is nice to find you again here. You had replied to my post about the Masai spear of a baby elephant. I am unsure on how to post here actually or how to find out if there are replies to it. I guess Foders does not notify the person if they have a reply?

I will try to post a new title for some information I guess.

Thanks & Peace,
Lisa

Gotcha, Tom. The Madikwe choice was from Africa Adventure (7 day south africa safari). Their options are: Option 1—Royal Malewane; Option 2—Kings Camp or Tanda Tula Camp; Option 3—Madikwe River Lodge or Jaci’s Safari or Tree Lodge. I would probably go with Option 3 for budget reasons, unless advised otherwise. Alternatively, Africa Adventure has a South Africa-South Botswana combo (11 day wildlife safari) package and has the option of the Mashatu Tented or Main Camp. This package also has time spend in Tzaneen. That being said, not sure if I should choose the package that includes Madikwe or the one that includes Mashatu.

BTW, Lisa, Fodors does not email you if you have a reply. The best thing to do is to login and then click on your screenname. To post a new thread, go to post a new message.

Sorry this is not going to help, but, Kings Camp and Tanda Tula Camp are not in Madikwe Reserve but in the Timbavati Reserve, next to Kruger.
regards - tom

So given Madikwe River Lodge or Jaci’s Safari or Tree Lodge in Madikwe or Mashatu tented camp, anyone have a preference between Madikwe and Mashatu? Also any thoughts on how worthwhile it is spend time in Drakensberg?

Actually, better asked, is pick two to combine: (Madikwe River Lodge or Jaci’s Safari or Tree Lodge in Madikwe or Mashatu or private Kruger park or Phinda).

me and my wife have been to southafrica three times .we fly into capetown stoy a couple days .we then fly to johannes burg then to the malamala game lodge. the time you spend going from place to place you could have stayed at one place and been seeing game.guality not guanity is always better

Just received 3 quotes and would love your thoughts on which to choose:

AFRICA ADVENTURE
Option 1: fly to Polokwane. Mashatu Tented Camp
Day 3&4 - Mashatu Tented Camp
Day 5 - Road transfer through Blythe Canyons etc
Day 6 - Drakensburg area, transfer to Sabi Sands
Day 7 & 8 - Djuma Bush Lodge
Day 9 - Djuma Vuyatela
Day 10, 11, 12 - Cape Town

OR

FISH EAGLE
Option 2: Day 1, 2, 3 Jock's Safari Lodge
Days 4, 5, 6 Tanda Tula or King's Camp or Pafuri
Days 7, 8, 9 Cape Town

OR

Days 1, 2, 3, Mashatu Tented

Days 4, 5, 6, Pafuri Camp

Days 7, 8, 9 Cape Town

Here is the 3rd proposed itinerary from CC Africa:

2 nights Cullinan Inn Hotel (Cape Town)
3 nights Summerwood Guest House (Cape Town)
4 nights Cavern Hotel (Drakensberg)
3 nights Phinda Forest lodge
3 nights Kirkmans Camp

Thank you!!!!

We are going to Africa at the same time. Premier travel put an itinerary together that included capetown, train ride to Johannesburg, Kruger Park, Botswana, and Vic Falls..you can get in more than you think

Hi all...planning a 2 week trip this September. Thinking about the budget though...From my starting research, it seems hard to do a lot of the things suggested if it's 4000 total for two people for two weeks (excl int'l airfare) for the trip. I'm starting to become discouraged about doing the trip because quotes are coming in from agents at double and triple that budget. (Would love to do CPT, Kruger, Vic Falls) Thoughts?

Thoughts? Hi Shrift anbd tabascov you might like to post a new thread regarding your budget and preferences - this one has mostly been inactive since 23 march...