Ovenbird-

Please keep us updated on your trip planning as I am very interested in going to Gabon. Rwanda, by the way, is truly awesome.

Monica

Getting to Libreville is bad enough! Internal transfers within Africa are almost impossible, as the main hubs are very limited Nairobi, Joburg. I think you are attempting the virtually impossible. If your main wish is to go to Gabon there appears to be plenty to do do there to fill a few weeks!

Ovenbird - have you started working with an agent yet for Gabon? Operation Loango is the only one I've seen recommended on this board. Just curious if you had made any headway in your planning.

check out exploreafrica.net I met the owner of exploreafrica at Somalisa last year, nice woman. Lots of info and stories. She would know the answers to your questions.
Haven't worked with her on any trips, so not recommending her other than for advice and knowledge.

Thanks Dennis!
On their website now and it has some great information.

Sorry for the delayed reply. We returned two days ago from a 1 mo trip to PNG during which time our broadband router died at home but is now fixed. We will likely go to Gabon with a birding tour company, so I'm not sure who the ground agent will be. We'll keep you posted on our planning, but I suspect Rwanda will probably not be in the picture in 2008 as the logistics seem to be too complicated.

We are trying to plan a trip to Gabon for a month mid July to Mid August 2008. Getting there seems to the problem. I can't make plane reservations till later this month. No point in planning yet as I want a ticket in hand first. Would appreciate any help from someone that has been there already. This is new territory for us..have been to Africa 35 times between the two of us. Understand there is little infrastructure in the parks, and getting from one park to the other also difficult.

These sights should be useful
http://www.operation-loango.com/
http://www.gabonnationalparks.com/

Getting there is another thing not many international airlines fly into Libreville
There is Air France from Paris
Inter Air from Joburg
and lots of small flights from nearby countries.
One of our neighbours (a wildlife vet) has been there and says that it is wonderful, but very underveloped in terms of facilities.

Good Luck!

I, also, was told by friends who were there last year that the tourist facilities are very underdeveloped.

Avoid Operation Loango. You can't trust management. Disorganized. Inconsiderate. No customer service. If you complain, they will threaten you with a lawsuit. It happened to me.

details, zumirez? it helps the rest of us learn what not to do...

I was in Gabon in Aug of 06. We used Operation Loango and were very happy with them... you can read my review on Virtual tourist http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/97866/e12/

I didn't use Operation Loango (I went throught I-Explore which uses Mistral Voyages) but at least two different groups/couples I met were very pleased with their trip organized through OL.

It looks like I-Explore doesn't offer Gabon anymore and although competent, MV was not easy to work with----it's frankly a difficult country where tourism is still a fledgling industry...many French with connections to the oil and mining industries, but not to the wildlife parks...

I enjoyed my trip...but your expectations need to be right...I saw no gorillas although I bet I'm the exception for those travelling to Ivindo and Langoue Bai. A couple that arrived a day early watched a family of Lowland gorillas for quite a while in the Bai...a spanish couple saw 35! a week prior...just bad luck on my part...

What I did see was an Eden...an area practically untouched...prehistoric looking long tusked forest elephants...monkies filled the trees...although, again, I saw a lot of sillouettes...

I added some adventure to my trip by going to Kongou Falls...logistically in the same park as Langouie Bai but I had to return to Libreville to get to Makoukou by plane and then to the falls...as far as an experience, I found it extraordinary. Imagine the most impressive falls in Central Africa all to yourselves...a motorized dug out pirogue down the rapids...swimming, fishing, forest walks to catch glimpses of forest elephants and mandrills...but glimpses is what you'll get...if you are lucky...

As far as prolific wildlife...it's no East or South Africa by a long stretch...but it is unique and offers some great forest experiences I've not had elsewhere in Africa.

If I had another week there I would have gone to Loango (and used Operation Loango) as I like the fish---tarpon in the south of the park...great whale watching in July, August and the jungle that meets the beach...the gorilla rehab was a high light as well for the spanish couple I met...they got to interact with a baby gorilla at Evengue? Island...Lope used to be the only game in town but I have heard plenty of complaints re: guiding and a lack of sightings there...

South African Airways flies JNB-LBV on Wednesdays and Saturday. Interair operates on other days. You can also get to LBV via Lagos - but I would not want to fly that sector.

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately our trip to Gabon didn't work out. One of the ground operators, who apparently has a monopoly for certain areas in Gabon, was giving our tour company a difficult time. So the owner finally got frustrated enough that he told them to take a hike. He cancelled this tour plus 2 others that were already scheduled to go. So, maybe next year it'll be better and we'll try again.

In the meantime, we might take the expedition to the Snow Hill Emperor penguin colony in Antarctica Oct/Nov. If so, that will complete our Penguin Sweep...our 17th out of 17 penguin species!

I've seen the words monoploy and Gabon used together before. Could you tell us what company?

I'm thinking in the next few years, using a company like Mountain Sobek or Wilderness Travel (Calif) may be the way to see Gabon because of these ground operator problems that have come up.

Oh well, I'm sure you'll enjoy Antarctica!

atravelynn: Oh no, I just now discovered your post! Mea culpa.

Sorry, I don't know the name of the ground agent. Our tour company is a birding tour company...not sure if you're that gung ho on chasing birds! It sounds like Operation Loango, now called Africa's Eden, does a good business in Gabon.

We are going to try to make it to Gabon in March 2009 with the same birding tour company. Hopefully, we'll have more luck this time.

Where are you off to next?

I spent four months in Gabon in 2002 doing research for my master's thesis. I was living and working with the conservationists (Mike Fay, Lee White) at WCS that convinced President Bongo to create the national parks. Though it has been some time, I would be happy to provide any information I can.

I lived in Libreville--going back and forth between Lee White's house and the Tropicana. I spent three weeks in Franceville, a few days in Okondja, and took short trips to Lope, Lambarene, and down the coast for some whale watching.

Gabon is a beautiful country with so much to see, but it is extremely difficult to get around. Even with my connections with conservationists throughout the country, it was a difficult place to navigate and I didn't get to see nearly as much as I would have hoped in four months.

Libreville is an odd city....I felt like I was living in a French colony, not a country that had been independent for 40+ years. I've also lived/worked in Uganda and LOVED Kampala. In fact, if you haven't already done much traveling around Africa, I would definitely go to Uganda before Gabon. Much easier to navigate, incredibly wonderful friendly people, and so much to see--that you can actually get to!

Oven bird--off to Rwanda & Uganda in Aug 2009. To Gabon in the next 20 years maybe. I think I'd go with a group.

MadisonMichelle, As in UW-Madison for the thesis? Oh boy, a resident expert on Gabon. Tell us about the wildlife you did see and where. Thank you.

We are going to try Gabon again Feb/Mar 2009 with the same birding tour company. But this time we'll start out in Morocco and then move on to Gabon. One of the tour company owners is going to do a side trip to DRC, but I'm not quite that adventurous!

Tomorrow we are off to Antarctica's Snow Hill Island to see our final penguin species, the Emperor. Africa is our favorite continent, but Antarctica is a close second!

madisonmichelle: What an adventure you must have had in Gabon with Mike Fay and Lee White! I agree with you about Uganda...I loved the country and its wonderfully warm people.

atravelynn: You will love Uganda too! Both Rwanda and Uganda...I'm so envious. Unfortunately, Rwanda won't be in the picture for us until at least 2010. But we will definitely make it there someday, as you will to Gabon!

Yes, Atravelynn, as in UW-Madison. Master's in geography, minor in African Studies. I was actually studying bushmeat, which is very popular in Gabon and throughout central and west Africa, so much of the wildlife I saw was dead. It was fascinating to talk to people about it though. I was in Libreville most of the time because we were looking at how much bushmeat is consumed in the city.

Unfortunately, I was stuck in the city while other WCS researchers passed through town to amazing destinations to study elephants, whales, primates, etc. I was so jealous! I was able to see humpbacks down the coast, which was one of the most amazing adventures I've ever had--minus the sea sickness!

I was also at Lope for a few days and saw elephants, mandrills, and can't remember what else. Both were just luck--and the elephants were kind of annoying (but amazing!) because they were blocking the road when we were trying to get out of the park to the train station!

Out past Franceville there is a beautiful canyon, can't remember the name.

By the way, porcupine is the preferred bushmeat species in Gabon!

Ovenbird, you may not see this as you are Antarctica bound. Hope the penguins are waddling about in abundance for you!

MadisonMichelle, F**k 'em Bucky! to another Badger. As a nature person I'm sure you enjoyed Picnic Point and the Arboretum. What a fascinating degree. Porcupine, eh? Probably tastes like chicken. On a less silly note, I'm sure your study of some of the endangered species of bushmeat was disturbing.

Thanks for the response.

Ovenbird--
I noticed that your two favorite continents are Africa and Antarctica. My husband and I are currently going back and forth about plans to one or the other in 2009. I've been to Zambia, Botswana, and Kenya, and I was entranced by the looks of Gabon. However, with all I'm reading, it is sounding more and more difficult, if not impossible.
What are your thoughts about the two continents? I know that's a loaded question, but I'm really serious! We were thinking of going in April, May or June. We gave up on Antarctica because it just looks so COLD! I'd be willing to do cold, but it looks way, way, way too cold!!!
OTOH, I don't want to go somewhere I've already gone, such as countries in Africa. I am longing to see the gorillas, but it looks more and more impossible to do so, not to mention horribly expensive, physically exhausting, and time consuming.
I want to take into consideration the fact that my husband has never been to Africa, but he is willing to follow my lead on all of these plans.
For those who've gone to Uganda, what is the wildlife situation like compared to other parts of Africa? I may have to defer my longing to see gorillas until the Congo gets better tourist infrastructure. Gabon looks like a nightmare comparitively..
Thanks for any suggestions!
Beachmama

"For those who've gone to Uganda, what is the wildlife situation like compared to other parts of Africa?"

The gorillas are great, but I found the climb in Rwanda to be less humid in July and the viewing to be less obstructed.

Visiting them was well worth the effort and expense and I'm going back to Rwanda in Aug. I'd visit the Uganda gorillas again too in a heartbeat.

Chimps in Kibale were fascinating. Chimps in Chambura Gorge in Queen Elizabeth Nat Park were good. The chimp walk at Ngamba with rescued baby chimps was over the top wonderful. I have not been to Gombe or Mahale in TZ to compare.

In Queen Elizabeth National Park the birdlife and hippos along the Kazinga Channel were in huge abundance.

The savanna areas of QE Nat Park provided some of the best ele interactions I've seen. I did see hyenas and lions there, but nowhere near as many as other parks. In the Ishasha region of the park it is possible to see tree climbing lions and I saw one in 3 visits.

I've seen Giant Forest Hogs on all 3 trips and I've never seen this elusive species anywhere else.

Uganda or Rwanda combines well with Tanzania or Kenya.

Good luck with Africa or Antarctica.

Atravelynn--
Thank you so much for your quick reply. Based on what I've already read regarding this region, my husband and I have finally decided to rule out Gabon. That leaves us with Uganda, which is beginning to look pretty spectacular.
I know you can't predict these things, but what are the "odds" of seeing a gorilla in Uganda vs Rwanda? As it stands right now, we are probably going to go in mid-June. Rwanda's treks seem much more difficult, or is that only my perception?
Should we be unlucky enough not to see gorillas in Uganda, I'm hoping we will definitely see chimps. I've just run a potential itinerary past my usual safari agent. It doesn't appear that we'll be seeing too many other animals in Uganda other than the primates, is that correct?
Still, with only approximately 7 days on safari, I think we may be making a good decision to stay only in Uganda.
And to Ovenbird (who is still in Antarctica?), we will be adding a leg by flying RT from Madrid to Morocco before flying to Entebbe.
More thoughts?
Thanks, Beachmama

Beachmama,

Don't know if you are still checking this board...but I definitely think Uganda is a better option than Gabon. It's just so much easier at this time.

Uganda is amazing. I've only been to Uganda and Gabon (of African countries), but I can't imagine a better experience than Uganda and every traveler I met told me Uganda was the best country they had visited.

I didn't see the gorillas while in Uganda because I was volunteering in Kibale for six months and spent all of my time with the chimps, but from what I heard, you were guaranteed to see the mountain gorillas and if you didn't see them on your particular day you could come back another day for free. I'm not sure if that's still the policy, but I'm sure you could find out.

In Kibale, the chances of seeing chimps is pretty good, but not guaranteed. When I was there ten years ago the chimps were still being habituated (that's why I was there). If you stay a few days in Kibale then you should be able to see them. The guides are fantastic!

You will be able to see many other animals in Uganda is you visit parks other than Bwindi and Kibale (which are pretty much just primates--lots of primates!). I visited Queen Elizabeth NP and it was wonderful. We saw hundreds, if not thousands of hippos on the boat tour down the channel. Lots and lots of elephants, antelopes, vultures, etc.. I also visited Murchison NP up North and saw giraffes and crocs in addition to elephants and antelopes.

If you only have seven days for the entire trip, I would do a tour of western Uganda. Hit Bwindi, then Queen Elizabeth and finally Kibale National Parks. Or go the opposite direction. Also spend a day in Kampala, it's a lovely city. Plus check out Ngamba Island in Entebbe on your way in or out of the country.

Good luck!

As it stands right now, we are probably going to go in mid-June. Rwanda's treks seem much more difficult, or is that only my perception?

Rwanda was actually easier, mainly because of the cooler temps. This was the first days of July.

Kibale will very, very likely produce chimps and Bwindi will very, very likely produce gorillas. If you can arrange 2 trips with the gorillas, the odds go way up.

MadisonMichelle would know, having spent a long time in Kibale. When I went in 2002, I saw the chimps but they were not as habituated as they are now. Your odds are better now.

In QE you'll see a variety of animals, as MadisonMichelle states. Elephants are a specialty. QE is the only place I've seen the Giant Forest Hog, and I've seen it each visit. The Kazinga Channel has great birdlife and hippos.

beachmama, I agree with what both madisonmichelle and atravelynn said. We loved Uganda and would love to go back. We saw many of the same mammals you can see in East Africa but not nearly in the same numbers nor as close.

But you can't see gorillas in East Africa and they were wonderful. We did only one gorilla trek at Bwindi and would do at least 2 if we went again. I don't know which trekking is easier, Uganda or Rwanda. I think it's just the luck of the draw. We had the "easy" family and ended up having a somewhat tough trek. Our friends had the "hard" family and they drove one hour, got out of the vehicle, and the gorillas were 30' from them! Truely a carp shoot!

And it's my understanding most if not all gorilla viewing is done from quite a distance in Gabon. So the up close experience would likely be lacking unless you went to the Evengue rehab center. Plus I believe Ivindo and Langoue Bai are still closed.

With only 7 days, I think you would be unhappy trying to do more than one country. I know I would.

Now, if you want to see Antarctica sometime, you won't be disappointed!

Marsha

Marsha

Do you have a trip report for PNG somewhere, and was birding the reason for that trip?

Matt

Matt, in addition, for PNG, it may be helpful, at least for planning purposes, to check out the Field Guides information

http://www.fieldguides.com/png.htm

There's a link on that site to request an itinerary, and these guys have done years of research to identify the very best birding spots. You can also see the lists fromt their recent trips, and the lists sometimes identify places where birds were spotted.

I have done some research into a trip to PNG (likely a few years away), mostly to see the Birds of Paradise, but also to get to some of the outer islands, and its not that easy to find detailed info on PNG.

Matt: Sorry, but we didn't do a trip report for PNG and yes, it was a birding trip. Almost all of the big US birding tour companies go to PNG, including Field Guides. But I would highly recommend Rockjumper Tours who has been going there longer. They essentially organized and guided our birding tour. We saw 23 species of Birds of Paradise and had one fantastic adventure after another. Unfortunately our extension to New Britain got cancelled due to civil unrest following national elections.

FYI - There are a number of birding trip reports at:

http://www.rockjumper.co.za/default.asp?id=1172

http://www.camacdonald.com/birding/papapuanewguineahtm.htm
http://www.birdtours.co.uk/tripreports/papua-new-guinea/

http://www.surfbirds.com/trip_report.php?id=812

http://wingsbirds.com/tours/narrative/163


thit cho: PNG is not a DIY kinda place, so look for a good tour company with lots of experience and contacts there. Rockjumper could probably help you with the out islands.

Marsha

Thanks Marsha and Michael.

Survival: Gabon ...that says it all.

Gabon is definitely not an easy place to visit, even with a guide who has had experience with the country. Our guide was constantly "talking" with the ground agent, who seemed to be changing plans on the fly or trying to charge more. It felt like we were interlopers at The Lope Hotel, which BTW is the only game in town...they were not very service oriented. We do not expect much, just a little civility which was sorely lacking. Happily, this was quite a contrast to the staff at Evengue (aka Gorilla Island) and at Loango Lodge (aka Iguela), who were very accommodating.

There is less and less to experience (Ivindo NP/Langoue Bai is closed, mandrill tracking at Lope NP is no longer possible, and gorilla viewing at Evengue is only through a chain link fence). It's not very tourist friendly...make sure you brush up on your French before you go and you bring plenty of Euros since several of the lodges did not accept credit cards. And the heat and humidity took its toll on our birding group (3 down for a day or two).

Not sure why the mammals were few and the bird species seen were also fewer than expected, but we did have some memorable experiences. We had a group of Forest Elephants walk to within 30 meters while we were busily looking in the opposite direction at a Shining Blue Kingfisher. We saw a group of 50 Red River Hogs gathering and scurrying around. We watched a cloud of 100 black and white African Skimmers flying in formation around our boat and flashing their large red bills, practicing for their upcoming migration.

It was a different type of African experience for us and not one we'd enjoy repeating especially at the prices they charge. Gabon does have beautiful pristine primary rain forests (sadly disappearing to logging) and some unique mammals, but it is one of the few countries on our "no return" list.

We wish you good luck if you decide to go to Africa's Last Eden!

Marsha