I like this plan! I particularly like that you are spending 2 nights in Nara in addition to your 5 nights in Kyoto - that's what I did, and I was very glad to have had that much time in the area.

I found one night on Koyasan sufficient for my needs and interests, and I would urge you not to cut it from your plans - it is magical! Be sure to visit Okuno-in, preferably at dusk or dawn (or both!)

I found Japan Solo the most helpful of the many guidebooks I used. I believe it is out of print, but maybe you can find a used copy somewhere?

Enjoy!

Wow, it really is the Year of Japan here in Fodorville. I love it!

Happy to hear you'll be there around the same time as us. Here's the hoping for a little overlap so we can all grab a sake together and talk all things travel!

Best of luck planning -- I'll be following this thread closely!

Kathie, our dates are 10/22 - 11/6. Rhk and HT are arriving a couple of days later. As you know filmwill is arriving a couple of weeks later. I have actually been looking at spending a night in Nara and now I see you are looking at 2. Am I missing something?

I think one night in Koyasan is fine, but do be careful about which temple you stay in.

I didn't visit Nara, but I really enjoyed visiting Ogimachi, Takayama and Matsumoto between Kanazawa and Tokyo. Can you manage more time?

We are at the very beginning of figuring out this trip. We l prefer not to have any single night stays, but so far the vote seems to be to do a single night at Koyasan. Thursdays, please recommend a temple to stay in. I worry a bit about the sleeping arrangements being so hard that I'll be in pain the next day.

Craig, we like to linger over temples, castles and gardens. Nara looks to have plenty to keep us occupied. The problem with a first trip to Japan is to get some variety, but to get enough depth of experience to appreciate it. It's a difficult balance.

I do hope our dates will intersect with other Fodorites, and we'd like to experience the koyo somewhere along the way.

I vote for two nights at Koyasan - if you are coming from Kanazawa it is almost a five hour trip - by the time you get there you won't have much time to look around and then you need to check out in the morning to continue to your next stop. Koyasan is a pretty out of the way place - even from Shin Osaka it takes almost two hours. I wouldn't shortchange yourselves there - quite a bit to see in addition to the cemetery....

I spent two nights there as I came from Miyajima and went on to Tokyo afterwards....

looking good

Koyasan is a tough call. For some visitors it's a highlight. For others it a disappointment (reasons I've encountered are too touristy, uncomfortable, felt fake, food a disappointment, too expensive for what you get). It's actually a minority of people in my experience who loved their time there. There are other options for temple stays that can be explored.

In Koyasan, I was very pleased with Shojoshin-in:
http://www.japaneseguesthouses.com/db/mount_koya/shojoshinin.htm

When I was there (2006) this particular temple was not too touristy, was extremely comfortable, felt authentic, and served truly outstanding cuisine (some of the best food I ate in Japan, and I trust you realize that means it was very tasty indeed). It was worth every penny, even though I was on a fairly tight budget at the time. The temple and its grounds were gorgeous and the monks could not have been more gracious. It was a highlight for me in a trip that held many highlights.

Although one needs to check out in the morning, you can leave your luggage with them while you explore the area. And as Mara says, there is a great deal more to see than just Okuno-in.

Given the amount of time it takes to get there I would recommend two nights in Koyasan. It truly is a magical place. We stayed at Eko In which was in avery good location not far from Okonuin ( make sure to visit at night) There is a "free" English speaking guide service in the town which we found to be excellent ( donation ) . Like you, I was a little concerned about the effects of sleeping on the floor on my back but just ask for an extra futon. I found it very comfortable and slept like a baby.

Kyoto was amazing. You could easily spend a couple of weeks there and not see it all. Nara was ok but I much preferred Takayama. The ryokan we stayed in there was a highlight of our time in Japan.

Kathie I think you are spending too much time in Kyoto and I wonder why Kanazawa is so interesting.

Anyway, you are leaving out very important places such as Hiroshima and Miyajima.

I also did a two weeks trip to Japan in 2007. Check out my travelowgue:
http://www.molon.de/travelogues/Japan/2007/
and the pics:
http://www.molon.de/galleries/Japan/

I was in Japan in November a few years ago, and it was the perfect time to go. The weather was sunny and cool, and the fall colors were amazing. Our itinerary worked well for us (we are interested in gardens, museums, temples, etc. and not at all in shopping):

11/12 arrive Narita. Keio Plaza Hotel, Tokyo
11/13 Tsukiji fish market, Tokyo sights
11/14 Tokyo. Hakone (do on weekday) day trip
11/15 Tokyo. Hama Rikyu Garden, Asakusa. Asakusa, Sensoji Temple. Tokyo National Museum. Edo-Tokyo museum.
11/16 Tokyo. Day trip to Nikko
11/17 Tokyo. Day trip to Kamakura
11/18 Tokyo. Meiji Jingu Shrine and Harajuku
11/19 Train to Kyoto (peak fall color in Kyoto around 11/18-19). Kyoto Brighton Hotel
11/20 Kyoto. walk through eastern Kyoto. Sanjusangendo Hall. Kiyomizu Temple.
11/21 Kyoto. Temple of the Silver Pavilion. Philosopher’s Pathway. Heian Shrine. Tyoanji Temple. Golden Pavilion. Kyoto Handicraft Center. Tenjin-san market at Kitano Tenmangu Shrine.
11/22. Train to Kurashiki. Night in Kurashiki. Hotel Nikko Kurashiki
11/23 Train to Hiroshima (1 hr), then ferry (45 minutes) to Miyajima. Stay at Momiji-so ryokan.
11/24 Morning on Miyajima-see park, then ferry to Hiroshima. Night in Hiroshima.
11/25. train Hiroshima to Kyoto. Hyatt Regency Hotel.
11/26 Kyoto. Day Trip to Nara
11/27 Kyoto: day trip from Kyoto to Miho Museum.

I did not originally plan to break up our stay in Kyoto. Despite planning this trip many months in advance, I could not find any hotels in Kyoto for the weekend in November we planned to stay there. I should emphasize that "any". I started looking at 3-4 star hotels, then expanded to 5-star and 2-star, then expanded to absolutely anything and there was NOTHING. November is a peak travel and wedding month in Japan in general and Kyoto in particular. The only reason we stayed in the hotel we did (Brighton) is because that is all I could find (it was very nice, but location was a little out of the way), and we took the weekend trip to Hiroshima because I couldn't find any place to stay in Kyoto for that weekend. We hadn't originally planned to go to Hiroshima, but it ended up working out well, and I particularly enjoyed going to Miyajima-see park and staying in the ryokan in the park.

One other note: We really enjoyed the day trip to Hakone. You might consider staying there overnight and then going on to your next stop rather than doing it as a day trip from Tokyo.

Hope this helps!

Kathie - I'm afraid I can only help with where NOT to stay in Koya-san (Rengejo-in):

http://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com/2010/10/06/all-is-not-serene-at-koya-san/

I agree with KimJapan that it's a slog to get to, and if you're sure you'll be back you could easily skip it on a first trip. However, you should have an easier time than I did finding temples and ryokans to stay in as there are two of you.

Are you Art Nouveau fans? If so, don't forget the museum in Takayama:

http://mytimetotravel.wordpress.com/2010/10/21/art-nouveau-in-takayama/

Also, do make use of the Greeter service. The full-moon-watching ceremony my Greeter took me to outside Kyoto was a highlight of the trip.

amln - I found plenty to do in Kanazawa. Besides the big and beautiful Kenrokuen gardens, which can easily occupy most of a day, there is a well-presented historic section, with houses to visit and assorted activities, and a good market. Maybe helped that I found some delicious okonomiyaki at Kotatsu - I ate there twice and was greeted as a regular the second time. (And Kanazawa is home to a lovely Fodorite family.)

Thanks to all of you for feedback and suggestions. This is a first trip to Japan. We obviously won't cover all of the highlights!

I'm not sure about Koyasan, but appreciate other suggestions from you if we choose to substitute another place for it.

As far as too much time in Kyoto, when I planned my first trip years ago, I was going to spend a week there! I'm not sure there is such a thing as too much time in Kyoto.

Great first plan!

If not sure about Koyasan means you will save it for another trip you might use that time for an Izu ryokan night or two on your way back to NRT(if you will be going this route).

Your last night in Japan could be spent at one of these places with easy train access back to Narita for your evening flight back to the US. Linda and I have been to Amagiso with its seven waterfalls, abundant hiking trails and river side rotenburo and have always wanted to experience the service, shear beauty and luxiurious futon(no back aches here) at Arai which we have planned in that long list of places to see that we all have.

http://japaneseguesthouses.com/db/shizuoka/arai.htm

http://japaneseguesthouses.com/db/shizuoka/amagiso.htm

Just throwing out suggestions

Aloha!

HT, you are reading my mind. It will be complicated to fly out of KIX or ITM, while we have a non-stop between Seattle and Narita. So I was going to ask where we might stop between Kyoto and Narita for an overnight. Both of the places you mention look fabulous, though I hesitate to ask how much they cost.

Keep the ideas coming!

There are generally very good connections ITM to NRT international flights, but you should book it as one ticket to get the protection of single ticketing in the event of misconnect. ITM is much easier than KIX because it's both smaller and closer.

You could also do Tokyo on each end of your trip like a sandwich.

> I'm not sure about Koyasan, but appreciate other suggestions from you if we choose to substitute another place for it.

Others have already mentioned Hiroshima / Miyajima, and Takayama. You could also consider Nikko and Lake Chuzenji.

Fodorites are the best! Thanks for so many great suggestions. I have lots of research to do and I'll be back with more questions.

I think your plan is a good one. Kyoto is a lovely city -- I especially enjoyed Sanjusangendo temple and Ginkakuji. Be sure to wander around the Gion Corner area in early evening to see the geishas. I thought we actually stayed longer in Kyoto, but I pulled out my journal and see that we only stayed 4 nights, and we spent one day going to Hiroshima (very worthwhile).

I am another one who loved our one night in Koyasan when we were there in 2005. Walking thru the cemetery after dark and participating in the Buddhist service at dawn were highlights of our 2-week trip. We also stayed at Shojoshin-in. As kja said the monks were more than accommodating.

In Nara, we loved our stay at Seikan-so Ryokan -- beautiful traditional room with a balcony overlooking the gorgeous garden, and we were able to have private use of the common bath which was ideal.

http://www.nara-ryokanseikanso.com/en/index.html

We liked Nikko too. Japan is very special and one of my favorites!

Kathie,
Japan can be addictive, we went on our first trip there in 2000 and have been back four times since! In addition I started taking Japanese classes for our first trip 13 years ago and have continued...hope you have a wonderful time!
you have always provided us with great trip rec's in southeast asia thanks!

Kathie, outside of Tokyo is a place called Kama Kura,(spelling) an amazing place, look it up. Also up in the mountains out side of Kyoto there is an ancient monastery, not considered on the tourist track, ask someone will know about it, they have a flame for Peace that has been burning continuously for century's, I have been there twice and leave feeling clean. Sendai is also wonderful although the coast is still a very sad place to see after the tsunami and of course if t=you could make it to kobe you would love it. Each part of Japan specializes in certain Japanese food. And Narita city is always a sweet place to walk around if you have a long layover, they have some great Noodle shops. Have fun

Thanks to everyone for their good wishes and good ideas. We have plane tickets, now will be the fun of deciding exactly where to go. It looks like we have an extra day over what I thought originally, so we will have the luxury of adding rather than editing.

I suggest changing the order to: Kanazawa -> Nara -> Koyasan, mostly because of the travel time from Kanazawa to Koyasan but also because you will have a 2-night stay in Nara.

Kanazawa to Koyasan, as mentioned above, is about a 5-hour trip and it is a bit complicated (3 trains and a cablecar). Traveling to Nara is shorter and easier.

I can't comment on Koyasan except to say that I haven't been there in 8 trips to Japan. If I were to travel 5 hours to get to Koyasan (I wouldn't, but if) then I would stay two nights.

Will you visit Shirakawago from Kanazawa?

Wait a second. Kathie is considering a one-night stay!

My understanding is that Kamakura has a lot of temples for you. You might want to check out emd's links about Ohara on filmwill's Japan thread.

MrW, I've decided against Koyasan. So right now the proposed schedule looks like:

Tokyo - 3 nights
Kanazawa - 3 ights
Nara - 2 nights
Kyoto - 5 nights
1 night in a Ryokan between Kyoto and Narita

We now have one more night. What to do with it? We could add it to Tokyo as there is so much to do and see there, or add a day trip from Tokyo or even add a one-night stop somewhere (but I'd prefer not to have one-night stops).

I don't have all the details on what we will do in each place - Shirakawago is a possibility from Kanazawa. I will look into Kamakura and Ohara.

I ordered Gateway to Japan, and it was supposed to arive yesterday. Instead, I received an email saying it was sold out, so I re-ordered it (at a higher price, of course) and hope to have it early next week. So while I am reading lots on the web, I don't have the guidebook I want yet. I did receive the Kyoto guidebook Don Topaz recommended.

Ohara is lovely and is easily visited from Kyoto.

Warm greetings Kathie - and early congratulations on your forthcoming initial journey to Japan. As I recently wrote to the esteemed filmwill, I'm confident you will have so much fun in the land of the rising sun. I've truly savoured each and every all-too-short business and occasional holiday visit. (And I do wish to thank you Kathie, for your ongoing visits to our fine home of Singapore. Appears you are already sorted with your Japan flights; in future, would be honoured to offer (always unbiased) counsel concerning my primary business travel carrier, Singapore Airlines. Not too long ago, I helped plan a SQ J-Class round-the-world adventure for a recently retired cousin and his wife. Perhaps for your retirement celebration...)

Bit rushed on this (Changi) flying morning, but a few Japan thoughts for you. Suspect you are already set with Tokyo lodging; will still give the highest praise to the Peninsula (holiday stay) and the Park Hyatt (work). Re Kyoto, Kita Antiques, presently overseen by the younger Mr. Kita. As I conveyed to filmwill, the Kita family and my rather far-flung family (and ancestors) have a history going back 60+ years. One of the numerous joys of living in, and travelling to, wondrous lands. That Kita connection lives on in our Singapore home.

Your timing is off (not that you probably care) for my all-time cherished Japan moment of ascending to the top of Fuji-san, 20+ years back. (Then, I've always loved all things mountains and mountaineering, including a joyous ascent of your neighbour, Mt. Ranier; I've always enjoyed my times in Seattle.)

If you detect some Japanese enthusiasm from me, well, looks quite promising that I'll be returning to Tokyo (via SQ) next month for a few days of meetings; been a while. And, if all goes well, perhaps an add-on holiday weekend with the loved one, work/flight schedules permitting.

Savour your planning and early Chinese New Year greetings to you and all. Looks as though I'll be away from Singapore for work until next Thursday, then home and a few SIN celebrations await. Good travel,

macintosh (robert)


... Singapore Girl, You're a Great Way to Fly ...

Kathie,

As for your extra day, I'd just add it to Tokyo - it's a great city, you won't regret it. You could do the day trip to Hakone as others have suggested - that was one of my favorite days in Japan for sure.

I was interrupted before I could complete my earlier message....

Ohara is lovely, an easy 1/2 day (or more) trip from Kyoto (about an hour each way). I thought Sanzenin particularly pleasant.
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3932.html
(Much as I enjoyed my time in Arishiyama, I think I liked my time in Ohara even better!)

I thoroughly enjoyed my day trip from Tokyo to Kamakura (or more precisely, a day trip from Tokyo with a first stop in Kita Kamakura, followed by a walk through various temples to Kamakura, and then a train to Hase, ending with the Daibutsu). (See japan-guide.com for lots of helpful info.)

FWIW, I thought the temples in and around Kamakura less different than those I had seen in Kyoto, Nara, Kanazawa, and Tokyo than would be the case with some of your other options. If you want to maximize the uniqueness of the things you see, then I think better choices would be either

(a) Miyajima (perhaps with a stop in Hiroshima if you have any interest) or
(b) Nikko and Lake Chuzenji (which you can do as a day trip from Tokyo, but which I think is better suited to an overnight).

Also, if you do consider Miyajima, you might consider staying overnight in Momiji-so, a ryokan that isn't quite as formal and is much more affordable than most - but absolutely lovely and with superb food. It's set beside a small running creek in a forested area within an easy walking distance of the town (of course, they'll pick you and and drop you off), and it is surrounded by Japanese maples ("momiji") and other trees, so it should be lovely in fall. Just a thought!
http://japaneseguesthouses.com/db/miyajima/momijiso.htm

I know you aren't wild about the idea of a one-night stay, but you could stop in Hiroshima for the Peace Park and Peace Museum (both truly impressive, IMHO), then take the ferry to Miyajima. Before leaving, you can take the cable car to the top of Mt. Misan, visit Itsukushima Shrine at both low and high tides, etc.

Wonderful ideas, kja. I will look into all of them. I have been playing with the idea of adding the day to Tokyo, then doing a day trip to Nikko. Miyajima looks good as well. This is obviously just a first trip, and the ideas we don't use for this trip, we can use on a future trip.

I do hope my comments are helpful as you choose which places to make part of this journey! For me, that's always the hardest part of trip planning - winnowing the wish list.

BTW, while in Nara, do consider going to Ikaruga for Horyu-ji and Chugu-ji. The Amida Buddha at Chugu-ji is, IMHO, truly exquisite. And in Nara itself, the statutes at the Kofuku-ji Treasure House and the Nara National Museum are stunning.

Kathie, I second the idea of adding another day in Tokyo--and not just because I grew up there. The city is so varied and interesting that you would be giving it short shrift otherwise. I'm sure you will visit such well-worn spots as Sensoji and Meiji Shrine/Omotesando. (Must-sees on Omotesando include KiddyLand, the FAO Schwartz of Japan, and the Oriental Bazaar, one of the few places that still sells good postcards as well as scarves, porcelain and other gifts.) But I would also recommend a visit to a Japanese department store such as Mitsukoshi, Isetan or Tokyu. All of them have great housewares departments where you can buy laquerware, textiles and other gifts, and they are great places to eat, having food courts and excellent, reasonable-priced restaurants. You might want to check out Tokyo City View at the top of Mori Tower in Roppongi Hills to see the vastness of the Tokyo Metropolitan area. For a change from the bustle of Roppongi, check out Daikanyama, my old neighborhood, which boasts boutiques, cafes, restaurants and walkable streets. Apparently the Tokyo branch of Eataly is there, but you'll also find terrific Italian food in Ebisu Station. (Train stations throughout Japan are good places to eat, whether or not you are in transit, and the food is usually cheaper than elsewhere.) I hope this has been helpful, and that you will have a wonderful time!

Many congratulations on buying your tickets! I'm vaguely thinking of leaving for SA in early May, and have done nothing, nothing.... (I'm very busy winnowing the photos from the last trip).

Unlike kinpatsu I didn't care at all for Tokyo and have minimal interest in gong back, while there are other parts of Japan that are high on my list - the other islands, the Alps, revisiting Kanazawa....

So lovely to read about those in the process of planning their first trips to Japan. I was in same boat not long ago and we enjoyed our first trip in October. I still think about it most days and am reliving it by (gradually) writing posts about it for my food blog (Kavey Eats). Incidentally, I've shared my itinerary, web resources list, what to expect staying in a ryokan and several posts about meals so far but have many many more to come.

We did include Koyasan in our itinerary and loved it, though it's a bit of a pain to get to. And some of the trains aren't covered by the JR Pass. The last segment is a beautiful journey, rising up through the mountains. Then you transfer onto a funicular (they call it a cable car but it's a funicular) for the last bit up to town. And then the local bus to your temple. We stayed at the Shojoshin-in which we enjoyed. We paid a little more for the private hanare residence with private bathroom and were very happy with that decision. We had a very good dinner, served in the main temple building - each party was assigned a separate room. There was no meditation session offered at all, but we observed morning prayers before breakfast. We didn't feel it was fake at all and there were Japanese guests who were whispering some of the prayers along with the monks, and holding their prayer beads. Incidentally, our temple was right next to the entrance to the cemetery which made it much easier to visit during the evening.

Our favourite place was Kyoto and we enjoyed our 5 nights there. We could have spent another few days easily. We also did an overnight in Nara, which we found delightful. Touristy, with vast numbers of school parties and other visitors, playing with the semi-tame deer, but so fun and cheering. Our ryokan there was a delight, and the best meal of the entire trip, but we were spoiled too by being the only visitors there that night, and being assigned the ground floor garden room, with stunning full windows onto the moss gardens.

Takayama was fantastic, but our visit was during their annual autumn festival. I wonder if you could combine it with your Kanazawa visit, 1 night in Takayama and 2 in Kanazawa? I do enjoy gardens but we decided against Kanazawa for this visit. There were so many beautiful green places anyway.

I agree that an extra day in Tokyo would be easy to use well. Tokyo has so much to see and it's so vast, there isn't one town centre but several. You could easily spend a whole day in the Asakusa area, another whole day by Shinjuku, a half day at Tsukiji and there's so much more.

I didn't warm to Osaka but we only spent half a day and a single night there. I am aware that's not a fair chance and I'd go back to find out why so many others love it so much.

Pleased we had our short visit to Hiroshima and then the afternoon and overnight in Miyajima. We travelled back from there all the way to Tokyo but given the ease of travel on the JR trains, that wasn't a tiring journey at all.

If I can clarify anything about our experience, let me know. x

If you have a Japan Rail Pass, which you should buy, you can easily do a day trip from Kyoto to Himeji for the castle which was one of the settings used in Shogun. You could see the castle in the morning, then continue on to Kurashiki in the afternoon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurashiki,_Okayama

Kurashiki is a very artistic city with a charming central canal district. You could head back to Kyoto in the evening. it would be a long day but you will enjoy Himeji castle and Kurashiki. I lived in Kurashiki for a year in 1989 while on the JET Program, and everyone was jealous of my being able to live there. If you have time for lunch or dinner in Kurashiki I can point you to my all time favorite restaurant in the world, a yakitori place called Takadaya. Oishiikatta.

Great information, everyone! Thanks so much. We have lots to consider.

I believe that Himeji-jo is still undergoing renovations:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e3501.html

Might still be worth seeing, but do check into it.

I agree that Kurashiki is charming and worth a few hours, especially if it is convenient, perhaps on the way to or from Miyajima.

I think November, particularly early November is a nice time to visit Japan. I agree with Kinpatsu that you do not have enough time in Tokyo. This is especially true if you would like to visit Nara, Hakone or Kamakura. I think 5 days is a lot for Kyoto but as I know you like Wats perhaps this is alright. You can easily visit Nara and Himeji from Kyoto.

Thanks to all for you thoughts and info. We now have an itinerary:

Tokyo 3 nights
Kanazawa - 3 nights
Nara - 2 nights
Kyoto - 5 nights
Hakone - 2 nights

I've made 10 nights of hotel reservations (Tokyo, Kyoto, Hakone) all Hyatts.

The real research starts now - the places to go in each location.

Sounds wonderful - enjoy!

It does sound wonderful!

No JR Pass for that, I think. It would be about break even IF you took the Narita Express to Tokyo from the airport AND a day trip from Tokyo to Kamakura. Better than break even if you visited Nikko from Tokyo. You don't have much time in Tokyo for day trips but I am mentioning Nikko and Kamakura considering that you like visiting temples/shrines.

For Tokyo to Kanazawa (4 to 4.5 hours on JR) you have the option to fly (65 min) from Haneda to Komatsu and then 50 min bus to Kanazawa. One-way award using miles on ANA would cost only 6,000 miles and no taxes.

If Tokyo to Kanazawa by JR then you have two options to get around the Japan Alps: north route via Echigo-Yuzawa or south via Maibara. One easy change of trains on each route. North is a bit less expensive and can be shorter. I think the trains on the south route might be a bit nicer (based on my limited experience on both) but either is fine. If you go the north route then you will see the whole loop, as you will follow the south route on the travel after Kanazawa.

We are really looking forward to this trip.

Thanks for the comments on transport. I know I will be asking lots of questions about this. We plan to take the limo bus from Narita to our Toyko hotel. So it sounds like we won't need the JR pass, then, MrW. Flying seems like a hassle, but maybe not. How is the scenery from the train on the whole loop?

kinpatsu: Could you give a bit more info on Daikanyama please? I don't know that neighborhood at all, and I wouldn't mind exploring on my next trip. (I see that it has a metro stop, but where to explore from there?)

Kathie: You will do well at Hyatts in Japan; they consistently offer reliable product & service. Which Tokyo Hyatt?

Also, flying is 1/100th the aggravation in Japan compared to the U.S. Check-in times are much less, security lines are shorter, and the whole system works far more efficiently than in the U.S. (Then again, that could be said for just about anything in Japan.)

Don, we will be at the Hyatt Regency in Tokyo (using points to upgrade to the Regency Club).

I'm sure flying in Japan is less hassle than flying in the US! Pros and cons of flying vs. doing the loop via rail?

I was also thinking you wouldn't need a JR pass for this. If you did you would want the 14-day one but not having one opens up all options. Good suggestion by mrw about the ff miles for domestic flights. If you took that route you would limo bus from the Shinjuku Hyatt to HND. Very efficient airport btw. Then bus from Toyama to Kanazawa on a smaller bus which would probably have a few stops before the main stop in Kanazawa probably near the JR station somewhere(I am guessing but Bill or Kim would know the specifics). You would save costs this way but not necessarily time as the bus rides to and from and the wait ahead of you plane may negate any time saved. Planes do delay....trains rarely do in Japan.
Taking the train would entail you taking the Hyatt shuttle to Shinjuku station(and getting lost....just kidding)then taking a train from there through either route mentioned by mrwnrfl above. Cost of the train trip would vary. The route through Echigo-Yuzawa would be around ¥12,500 vs about ¥18,500 p/p using the southern route and some shinkansen, Nozomi in your case. The train would be the more expensive option on this segment if using ff points for the plane. If not using ff points then either way would cost about the same as you can get a discounted domestic plane ticket for ¥10,000-11,000 for tourists only and add in the bus fares probably about ¥1200 each ride. Much more later including site suggestions. Work.....what's that lol

Aloha!

Komatsu not Toyama above. Well at least I was in the general vicinity.

The limited express train from Kanazawa goes through Maibara enroute to Kyoto. I did this once and thought Kanazawa to Maibara was scenic with a view of Lake Biwa. At Kyoto you change to a local to Nara.

From Kyoto the shinkansen goes through Maibara to your JR destination of Odawara (and then the Hakone transit). There is a good bit of generally unattractive urban sprawl along the way from Nagoya to Tokyo, at least. You could have great views of Fujisan on the left, weather permitting.

The 'north route' is a shinkansen to Echigo-Yuzawa then a limited expres train to Kanazawa. I've traveled that route and parts of it a few times but have no notable memories of it, except for one experience. That is that I have been on a JR train that was LATE. It was January, and IIRC, the delay was due to weather. At Echigoyuzawa everybody had to rush down the platform and up the escalator to the platform where the shinkanen to Tokyo was waiting. It was quick, maybe closer to 45 seconds than 2 minutes. It was all a blur, but I made it.

You do have an opportunity to visit Hikone castle (a National Treasure!) on the way to Nara. Maibara to Hikone is only 5 or 6 minutes.
http://www.gojapango.com/travel/shiga_hikone_castle.htm

Hyatt Regency is a very pleasant place. If you get a west-facing room (or if the Lounge faces west), you might get lucky and with a clear day see Fuji-san -- or better yet, an unforgettable view of the sun setting right next to Mt Fuji.

(Alas, no Hyatt Regency for me next time -- I'll be splitting my time between the other Shinjuku-area Hyatt and the Roppongi one.)

I just saw ht's post and he wrote Toyama when he meant Komatsu.

I had the same choice to make, going from Shinjuku to Kanazawa, two Novembers ago and really looked hard at taking the train (I enjoy it and have had some absolutely wonderful experiences with Japanese on the trains), but chose to fly (to Komatsu).

BUT, if you want to see some countryside, and maybe have a fun experience with fellow passengers, go the north route on JR.

Flying is hassle free - you can check in 30 minutes before your flight, take your water through security, no one shouts at you and lines are short and fast-moving. Most everyone stays outside of the gate area for domestic flights until right before boarding because there is only a kiosk type shop after security and there are shops and restaurants on the "outside."

From Komatsu to Kanazawa there are buses that meet every flight and depart when the passengers are out of the baggage claim. The only easier way is car - as a rule I park and fly when I go anywhere, but there are taxis (in this case not inexpensive at around ¥20,000) for the 30 - 40 minute ride on the highway.

We were assuming we would take trains everywhere, so it is interesting to read about the flight options. We do want to see some countryside, so will likely end up on the train most of the time. But it sounds like if we wanted to fly one leg, it might be the Tokyo to Kanazawa leg, is that right?

I also think HT was correct when he gave the instruction for the train "Taking the train would entail you taking the Hyatt shuttle to Shinjuku station(and getting lost." I'm sure we will get lost. Isn't that the way the rest of you learn your way around places - by getting lost? That was how I learned my way around the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul. I'm guessing the train stations are less byzantine than that!

Oh, Don, your comments about seeing Fuji-san from the Hyatt reminded me that I once saw Fuji with the sun setting behind it flying into Narita. It was crustal clear and just gorgeous. I watch for it carefully every time we fly into Narita and have not seen it again.

Kathie, you are right about getting lost, and you will in Shinjuku station. It is the busiest train station in the world and I get lost there all the time. There is a tonkatsu restaurant there that is out of this world and we find it maybe 60% of the times we look for it,lol
But just ask the Hyatt shuttle driver to point you in the direction of the JR trains and follow the abundant signage to the JR gates. Follow the signs....stand on the left on escalators pass on the right...take your time.....especially if you happen to be there at rush hour. If you have to stop to look around and get your bearings try to move to the side and out of the flow. Shinjuku eki is always changing, ever growing and evolving. Locals get lost there all the time, we have seen it. It will be fun for you two, I can't wait to see Bob in Shinjuku station but I think it best we avoid that situation

Aloha!

Yes, Tokyo to Kanazawa would be the leg to fly. The rest is by rail.

You certainly have the right attitude about getting lost. Getting lost in Japan can be fun. And, yes, it is how you learn. Shinjuku requires more than a lesson, or a couple of courses, it calls for a degree program to learn. If you and ht and I all went to the station together then we would get lost and it would be a toss-up on who would figure it out first. But you will figure it out and shouldn't stop you from taking the train if you want to do that for the reasons mentioned.

You don't have to decide now. Those award flights are easy to get. If you find that I am wrong about that then you take the train.

Thanks to the Japan experts! Yes, we won't decide right now about train vs. plane for that leg of the trip. If we decide to fly, you are the expert, MrW on getting free tickets, so we'll ask your advice.

Congratulations Kathie! I am glad you decided to visit Japan. It is such an unique country, in terms of culture, traditions, food, etc. It is unlike any other country you've visited in Asia.

IMO, 5 nights in Kyoto is just right, especially for someone who enjoys temples and gardens. Some of the must-sees are Kiyomizu-dera, Sanjusangendo, Ginkakuji, the Imperial Gardens, and Nijo Castle. If you want to take a tour of the Imperial Gardens, make sure you request tickets as soon as it's available using the Imperial Household Agency's website; tickets are usually available about three weeks in advance and are free of charge. It was worth it IMO.

My general advice for Kyoto would be to focus on a few temples, slow down, and really enjoy walking in the gardens and sitting around and really absorbing the scenery around you. A nice cup of green tea looking out at a pretty scene - heaven!

I enjoyed Nara too. It is a smaller town. The main draw is Todaiji Temple with its Big Buddha. Other than that, it's a nice town to take easy and enjoy what it has to offer.

Also, in between Nara and Kyoto is Fushimi Inari Shrine. If you have the time, it's fun wandering around the complex with its many vermilion gates.

I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have as you continue planning.

> I enjoyed Nara too. .... The main draw is Todaiji Temple

hmm... I wonder if that's why so many people think Nara worthy of just a day trip? I enjoyed my time at Todai-ji, but it was a decidedly 2nd tier objective for my time in Nara. For me, visiting Nara was about seeing Horyu-ji and Chugu-ji (just outside of Nara in Ikaruga), the Nara National Museum, Kofuku-ji and its incomparable Treasure Hall, Kasuga Shrine, Naramachi....