Update: Am thinking that instead of driving to Nagoya or Tokyo, we could drive onwards to Kyoto with the overnight stop off on the 8th to make it a leisurely drive? The one-way fee for the car hire is around $300. Probably more expensive than the train (especially with tolls, fuel etc) but it would make for a scenic drive?
Thanks!

Forget the driving between Tokyo and Kyoto and in your case almost anywhere in between. Start by getting a Fodors Japan guide book and reading it. You will understand what comes out of the train PA system because announcements are made in English and Japanese. You will know to get off the bus by simply saying the name of your bus stop to the driver when you enter the bus. They will let you know when you get to your stop. After reading the Fodors guide you should rethink this whole driving itinerary utilizing the train or bus systems and come back for more advice.

There are so many things you are doing wrong in your plan that for a first time poster am thinking this is a set up, but am willing to help.

Aloha!

Gosh. I've based the first part of the trip on one previously organised by a UK-based company (albeit substituting the driving for public transport), and the Kyoto onwards one based on suggestions from my guide book, Fodors and other travel forums. I had thought it was finally coming together, but apparently not!

I shall do further homework as suggested and might contact the company who previously offered the Alps section of the trip as a self-guided tour and see what they would suggest.

Apologies for coming over as such a joke.

I forgot the bit about cars not being allowed in Kamikochi. I knew that at the start of my planning and somehow it got lost after I'd immersed myself...

Drive on to ... ? was your question and you were thinking drive on from Kamikochi to Nagoya or Tokyo. No, on going back to Tokyo.

So, part of your thinking was to drive Tokyo to Kawaguchiko to Matsumoto to Kamikochi to Kiso-Fukushima. That might work, except for the ban on cars in Kamikochi - but there is probably still a way to make a car rental work (drive from Matumoto to some point closer to Kamikochi and then taxi/bus from there to Kamikochi and back to the car. Maybe not ideal.

You must see something you like in Kiso-Fukushima that you like and I don't know about it. But south of there, in the Kiso Valley is the Nakasendo. If you haven't read about walking the Nakasendo then you should as it sounds like it definitely fits your interest. You would travel from there to Kyoto by rail.

I would leave the mountain driving in the rain up to a bus driver. Use rail to Matsumoto from Tokyo and from Matsumoto through Kiso Valley to Kyoto.

Your other option, leaving Kamikochi, is to go to Takayama (skipping Kiso) and then rail from there to Kyoto. If you can use the car and taxi/bus to/from Kamikochi then you could drive to Takayama. I don't know about driving from there to Kyoto.

If you are worried about not understanding the train or bus announcements (and most have info screens in English as well), why would you attempt getting on the roads where the navigation, driving on the left, and road signage are much more difficult? It may be rainy/windy and it will likely be more expensive once you pay for the car, gas, tolls and drop off fees.

Japan has a great rail and bus network. It's on-time, clean, easy to navigate, and reasonably priced, especially if you take advantage of regional passes.

In all our trips to Japan, we have never rented a car, and never felt we needed to. The only place I would consider driving would be up in Hokkaido.

It may be heresy to quote from the Lonely Planet guide books on this forum but...!

"Driving in Japan is quite feasible, even for just the mildly adventurous. The major roads are signposted in English; road rules are generally adhered to and driving is safer than in other Asian countries. In some parts of the country it can prove much more convenient than other forms of travel". A full week gives you time to make a more through exploration of central Honshu. The best way to do this itinerary is by rental car, although you can do the entire route by public transport if you don't mind some long waits for buses and trains".

Driving on the right or left is straightforward provided you're in a car with the steering wheel on the correct side: we've lived in the USA and the UK, driven across Australia, New Zealand, Africa as well as mainland Europe (where generally the trains are also excellent - we've utilised rail, car & bus depending on the sort of trip we were making)

As well as not having to haul luggage on & off buses and trains (17 nights in cooler mountains & sweaty towns, coupled with camera kit = luggage) going by car usually gives additional freedoms to stop off at interesting places, to get lost and find interesting places... I appreciate that Japan has excellent rail & bus networks - which is why the second part of the trip makes extensive use of it!

On the navigational front, satnavs will help. I'm an instrument rated private pilot: flying at 10,000' in the clouds is what I consider challenging when it comes to navigation!

I was expecting people to say the traffic is terrible/roads around such & such an area not very good, rain/fog can make driving difficult, X can be a real bottlenecks, avoid driving at this time of day etc etc.

mrwunrfl thanks for your thoughts and suggestions. You're right, Takayama could be a convenient place. My overlooking of cars disallowed in Kamikochi is the real fly in the ointment for my initial plans and this alone could cause me to ditch the driving idea and instead focus my energy on the logistics of a train & bus route coupled with luggage forwarding (something we often do on hiking trips in Europe). That would also open up the option of doing the Alpine route.

Thanks again for your comments & suggestions.

You would drive out of Tokyo via the Chuo expressway with tolls along the way taking roughly about two hours depending on the traffic. Or you can take a bus from Shinjuku station area(2 1/2 hrs) and rent a car in Kawaguchiko and drive from there dropping the car in say Matsumoto after you are done touring the Alps.

http://tiny.cc/owi7rw

http://transportation.fujikyu.co.jp/english/gettinghere/01_3.html

There is also a Toyota rental in town and IIRC a Nissan(or was it Mazda) rental next to the JR Kawaguchiko station. You can call the Toyota rental from your home. They have English speakers there who will help you narrow down what you want and give you the info you need. I know the phone number is in Tokyo but they can rent you a car nationwide and help you find the nearest rental station to where you want to pick up and drop off your car.

http://rent.toyota.co.jp/en/index.html

http://www2.tocoo.jp/?file=rentcar_inbound/branch&id=02584&prefecture=19

If it were me, and I know its not, I would pick up in Kawaguchiko and use to tour the Alpine country for as many days as you want then drop of car in Matsumoto and take train from there to start the Alpine Route through Shinano-Omachi and ending in Toyama or Kanazawa. Then train on to Kyoto later.

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e7550.html

Beautiful castle in Matsumoto, one of my favorite and this hotel is a treat. If you stay here don't forget to ask for a castle view room and make use of their onsen in the basement.

http://hotel-kagetsu.jp/englishtop.html

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6050.html

You can park your car in the car park outside of Kamikochi and take the twenty minute bus ride into town to visit or stay overnight. Parking is ¥500 overnight.

http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e6040.html

I like mrwunrfl's reco Kiso Valley.

Aloha!

> 12. Overnight trip to Koya-san
13. Back to Kyoto, sightseeing

Personally, I would visit Koya-san before or after a visit to Kyoto, but not in the middle of it. I don't mind one-night stays, but I do avoid them when I can!

> 14. Train to Hiroshima, sightseeing Hiroshima
15. Day trip to Miyajima

I was glad that I stayed on Miyajima rather than in Hiroshima, but that's a matter of personal preference.

> 1. Arrive Tokyo
16. Hiroshima to Tokyo
17. Fly home

Have you considered an open-jaw flight instead?

You'll see some wonderful things - enjoy!

Thanks so much for your suggestions, very helpful.

Like the idea of picking up car outside of Tokyo and am thinking of skipping Kawaguchiko and going Kamikochi for some serious hiking, then to Matsumoto, pick up the car and spend 3-4 days exploring the Kiso valley. Drop car back off to Matsumoto to then continue through the Alpine route on to Kanazawa. Will reconsider timing of Koya-San visit too, and look at staying on Miyajima compared with Hiroshima.

Does anyone have a favourite ryokan and onsen they would recommend in any of our destinations?

Re flight: that is the one thing we have booked so no option but to begin/end in Tokyo. Looking forward to the bullet train!

Thanks again!

Thought I would post an update on out itinerary which has changed direction somewhat from our original thoughts, but is now almost sorted...
Day 1 - arrive Tokyo
Day 2 - train & bus to Kamikochi (luggage forwarded to Takayama)
Day 3 - hiking in Kamikochi
Day 4 - hiking in Kamikochi
Day 5 - bus to Matsumoto, visit castle etc, pick up car and drive to Takayama
Day 6 - drive to Wakura onsen via Shirakawago
Day 7 - drive to Suzu/tip of Noto peninsula
Day 8 - coastal drive to Wajima
Day 9 - coastal drive to Kanazawa, drop off car
Day 10 - sightseeing Kanazawa
Day 11 - 7 day rail pass, train to Kyoto
Day 12 - Kyoto
Day 13 - day trip to Nara
Day 14 - Kyoto
Day 15 - train to Hiroshima, on to Miyajima, (luggage forwarded to Tokyo)
Day 16 - train to Tokyo via Hiroshima
Day 17 - fly home

We should be able to get some nice walking in while on the Noto peninsula. We have a total of eight nights planned in ryokans. Have also checked the tide times in Miyajima when we will be there and high tide will be a little after sunrise (06.32), and again just after sunset (18.48). The moon should be up & shining brightly too (three days from being a full moon).

Looking forward to it!

Where did you find the tide table for Miyajiima?

Using this website:

http://tbone.biol.sc.edu/tide/tideshow.cgi

You click on 'select a different site' and then navigate using the world map

If you want to work out sunrise/sunset times then www.timeanddate.com is the place to look. Here they are for Hiroshima in September:

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/astronomy.html?n=1064&month=9&year=2013&obj=sun&afl=-11&day=1

It's busy. I suppose you checked the temp/precip for your locations for first half of Sept.

I'd probably do like shelly and go from Kanazawa to Hiroshima/Miyajima, despite the lesser moonlight.

Day 15 is at least 6 hours of traveling: ferry from Miyajima, walk to Miyajimguchi station, the local to Hiroshima, shinkansent to Shin Osaka (or other required transer), shinkansen to Tokyo. Add time to get from there to your hotel. Next day a long? flight.

Very good point re Day 15 and I like the suggestion of Kanazawa to Hiroshima/Miyajima. Many thanks!

Wow, much better especially if switching Hiroshima after Kanazawa. Perfect blend of car and rail use imho. I hope the weather cooperates with you on this trip. Looks like a great time.

What ryokans are you thinking of staying at and what is your budget for ryokan so we can make suggestions? What nights on you latest itinerary are you thinking of a ryokan stay?

Aloha!

Oh, I meant Day 16, Miyajima to Tokyo, was the long one (not day 15). So, now it will be Day 16, Kyoto to Tokyo?