I will stay tuned..meanwhile you have made me very hungry and nostalgic for Shanghai!

Hi, Shanghainese: What a great report!

You have me salivating all the way through!

No wonder you go back to Shanghai every year!

SHOPPING

Most visitors know where to get souvenirs, I'm going to list items I've been asked about. Due to the huge influx of non-shanghainese into the city, a large % of sales staff do not speak nor understand shanghainese dialect and only converse in mandarin.

Tea: Tea leaves come from tea shrubs of the camellia family. Folklore has it that while boiling water to drink, leaves from the twigs used for the fire fell into the pot and gave the water an appealing aroma and flavor, hence the start of tea which the leaves are plucked from bushes and roasted.
There are numerous tea shops in Shanghai and some visitors have bad experiences. I go to Huanshan Tea Co. at 605 Huahai zhong (middle) Road, this is the nicest of the several branches in the city. The staff are knowledgable and pleasant, some can speak simple English. The tea is fresh and of high quality (I've seen tea in Chinatowns that have feathers and droppings of mysterious origin in them), there are pretty boxes and tins for gift packaging, and they have lovely teapots including the Yixin brown pottery. I bought a clear glass pot for a fraction of the price you see in Chinatowns.

Custom Made Clothes: After the Xiangyang Market closed, many vendors moved to the underground market adjacent to the Science and Technology Exhibit Centre subway station, about 2 dozen tailors moved there too. You can take the No. 2 Line to the Centre, it is indoors, bright and clean, has a food court and the security patrol does a good job. Amy Lin's Pears has moved there too.

Pearls: The most convenient place is Pearl City at 558 Nanjing Road pedestrian walkway on the 2nd floor. Ling Ling Pearls was expensive and the salesladies had blank expressions when I spoke in perfect shanghainese and mandarin. The smaller stalls with young staff were much ready to please (read bargain). There are large varieties of ready made stuff of all prices. You can also pick pearls and stones you like and wait for them to be stringed into bracelets and necklaces of your own design. I must have gone thru 100 grey pearls for my earrings.

The other area I like is Pearl Village at 457 Fangbang (pronounced more like bong) Road in the Yuyuan Bazaar. The stalls are rustic with more pretty stones than pearls (I adore red coral and found an unusual clear spiderweb stone, and the vendors are more tolerate of my haggling.

Golf Clubs: No. 1 Department Store at 830 Nanjing Dong Road across from the People's Square. The vendors at the Science and Technology sbuway station sell western brands (Calloway, etc.) but I can't tell whether they are knockoffs since I don't play. There are several newly opened world class courses, the VW International was playing when I was there and I was told the clubs sold in the proshop are the real thing.

Musical Instruments: In the area immediately east of the People's Square bordered by Fushou Road and Jinglin Road all the way to the Bund, there are blocks and blocks of stores selling anything from grand pianos, violins, guitars to drums and chinese instruments. My friend said they are of excellent quality since labor is cheap.

Faux Antiques: The open air Dongtai Road Market close to Xintiandi is a fun place as long as you are not searching for real antiques. Consider most of the stuff as souvenirs and when you look hard enough (and bargain), you can come up with some nice finds. I bought a bunch of little silver (read faux) jewelery boxes with flowered porcelain tops from broken cups and platters for gifts. And a fan because I liked the calligraphy on it. I also bought a scroll of a shanghai 1930s lady which my DD wanted.

Outlet Mall: Checked out the massive OUTLET Mall (that's the name) an hour outside Shanghai which has become a tourist destination for southeast Asian visitors, there were over 50 busloads of them. The place is larger than Central Park in New York City, beautifully landscaped with deluxe stores like Prada, Chanel, Gucci, Barney's, etc, and a huge food court and movie theater. The prices were closer to the real stores in the US than our outlets, no fun.

Last but not least, do not go to the Qipu Market, it is filthy and sleazy.

Thanks for your report. The food sounds wonderful and the shopping tips are very helpful. Friends and I will be there in early April and hope we find a few of those appealing restaurants and great food. Yum.

TravelingGal -- you are most welcome.

I did use "edit" but I think I should press "preview" again for the changes to stick.

Stay tuned for some notes on sights.

I enjoyed reading a report from a native of the City. I'm sure many travelers will use this posting as a resource for their trip. As you know from my recent report of my trip there, I really enjoyed my stay in Shanghai. It is truly a great place to visit.

Larry -- Thanks very much for your kind words, from your ungrouchy report I recognize you really like Shanghai.

I should be penalized but I'm so swamped but will get to the sights soon.

I am glad that my wife did not see this before our trip, she would have needed more suit cases with all these places to shop, she bought enough just in nanjing Lu, thanks for the report.

Sam.

Hey Shanghainese, I liked your trip report a lot - you always have such great advice and we can tell you're a real foodie. I'm hungry already!

I'm headed there in two weeks so your updates will certainly come in handy. I brought some jewelry designs to have custom-made and favorite pieces of clothing to have copied and can't wait...I want to try that red coral and check out new stones.

Ooh, I suspect I'll need to get another suitcase on this visit.

S - loved your food report, my mouth is watering! Now I have some places to look forward to dining at the next time I go!

I'm curious about the dumpling places you mentioned. Wondering if I had eaten at one of them without knowing. The one I visited (aside from Nanxiang) was about a block or two north of Renmin Park, just past the Park Hotel I think, on the east side of the street. A very small, nondescript place, but the most amazing crab dumplings I ever tasted! Okay, the only crab dumplings I ever tasted, but still

Sam -- next time direct your wife's attention to all the food, I don't know what's healthier, eating or shopping!

Lia -- have a great trip and fun time, and let us know your findings!

Nutella -- Yep, you experienced it, the best xiaolongbao soup dumplings in the world "Jia Jia Tangbao"! It is a hole in the wall, sit on stools at crowded tables (I shared with 3 young and pleasant office guys who wanted to practice English), no napkins, no tea, I ordered the seaweed egg flower soup.
The soup dumplings with crab meat in Shanghai are sweet water crab meat, they taste special. I won't order them with crab meat in the US because it's salt water crab meat and doesn't taste good, besides it's a waste of money. Btw, my uncle was the general manager of Park Hotel in the 1940s before he came to the US. DM remembers big band dancing in the grand banquet hall.

One more shopping item to add --

Olympic Games souvenirs: When I was there in June last year,there were a couple of official souvenir shops selling a wide variety of stuff, we bought dozens of caps, T-shirts, bags, key-chains, pens, etc. Neither of the shops existed this year, I saw only key-chains and caps at the underground market next to the Science and Technology Centre.

LarryRGV, did you see any at the building on Nanjing Road you went with your wife?

Bait and Switch: Yes, it still exists so shop with caution. If you are interested in a certain item and the shopkeeper says it's for display and goes to the back of the shop to get you another one sealed in a bag, hold onto the original item and don't say anything till the other one in the bag arrives. Then say you want to buy the one in your hand and tell the shopkeeper to pull out the one from the bag as display. Be alert of your wallet or purse at all times.

Funny you ask about the olympic soveniers. We did see a couple early in the Shanghai trip but didn't buy them when we could, and later didn't see them at all but we didn't go back the first place as we figured we could always pick them up in our final stop, Hong Kong. In HK we searched all over for them and there were none at all.

Hi Shanghainese,

It's great to write to you now that we have met! Although you say you aren't good at writing trip reports, you actually are extremely good at it... too modest!

I had glanced at this report before but just read it again (and copied it into my trip notes). Great report!

I'll let you know which restaurants we visit and the results... most likely several more pounds! I think I gained at least a pound at lunch today.

TravelingGal - We are tentatively scheduled to be in Shanghai April 4-8 (still no definite plan, but getting closer every day to making reservations!). If you and your friends will be there at the same time maybe we can get together at one of Shanghainese's restaurant recommendations... the more the merrier for sampling dumplings and other wonderful things to eat.

Hi Shanghainese, I rarely come on the asia board and wanted to ask a question. I have been for work to China Twice this year. I have only shopped in the Yu Gardens area this past trip and the Feng Xiang Gift market on Nanjing Road. I am usually working so much I cannot get away when the shops are open! What do you think of this shopping plaza...I think I did better in Beijuing with price and less hassle at the pearl market for clothes and jewellery.

I probably have been charged for tea towels etc but I cannot read chinese and just review the bill to make sure its not charged for extra meals etc. I ate in a lovely older style building in the French concession...I will check my cards as I had two wonderful meals here as well as a hot pot meal not far from the bund in Restaurant 789.

Can you reccomend any tailors or tailor market on the other side of the river? I will be staying near the stadium for work but can taxi it. Also a few people were aking where the best price and quality for cashmere was...any suggestions.

Just an FYI if you like your bedding I bought a stunning set in a shop near the french quarter. The lady had a little anglish (and myself even worse Chinese) but I bought a king size duver, shett 2 sq pillow cases and 2 regular as a set. It is lovely qquality and cotton...the styles are unusual lovely floral and nice colours. Mine was red and beige with large flowers on it. It looks stunning on the bed in Ireland...nothing in the shops like it here!

Thanks S

SiobhanP -- Delighted to meet you here! I am a fan of your Ireland postings, so sensible and informative. We were planning to visit this year but our dear friends from Wicklow who lived in the U.S. for quite a few years decided to visit in March, guess the Euro is really strong nowadays.

Back to Shanghai. Are you staying in Pudong or Puxi? In Pudong, there are more than a dozen tailors at the underground market adjacent to the subway station at the Science & Technology Exhibit Centre, I haven't personally used them.
In the french concession I go to a tailor at the southwest corner of Yungjia Road by Yueyang Road, it is a clean, hole in the wall, the selection of fabric is not large. The tailor doesn't speak English but has a great sense of style and is easy to work with. I recommend you bring samples or pictures with you. Please tell him the shanghainese lady who went to grammar school on the next block and now lives in America sent you.

I haven't really come across good quality cashmere, most of them pill easily. Is the Feng Xiang gift market at 350 or 380 Nanjing Xi (west) Road near the JC Mandarin Hotel? If so I haven't been there but LarryRGV and his wife went there twice.

Your bedding set sounds fabulous, I want to go there, do you recall the location?

SiobhaanP -- When are you going? Talked to my DS in Shanghai today and she said the tailor is closing shop the 2nd and 3rd weeks in Feb to spend the Chinese New Year with his family in his hometown.

Well, better late than never on continuing my post, and my apologies to Lia for not getting to this in 2007.

SIGHTS

Aside from the usual places, here are a few I recommend if you have some extra time, and if you have kids.

Jade Buddha Temple: This is in the northern part of Shanghai, a taxi can get you there easily. It's crowded during holidays and fetivals, otherwise a serene oasis in a bustling mega city. The life-size buddha came from Burma and is made of white jade, quite a sight to behold.

Parks: These are the best places to sit and people-watch the locals even if it's only for 20 minutes. The Renmin (people's) Park is big, my favorites are in the french concession, which have leafy trees and nice landscaping. Those include the Fuxi Park, Xiangyang Park and the Jingan Park across from the temple with the same name.

Boat rides: A boat ride at night on the river gives thrills to travelers of all ages. The highrises featuere mind boggling neon billboards, and colored searchlights light up the sky. If you don't have time for a boat ride, do walk along the Bund at night.

Taikang Antiques Market: On Sinan Road, treat it more as a place to stroll than to shop. The neat stores are housed in old shikumen houses similar to Xingtiandi, but not as precious and dolled up for the ultimate commercial consumption.

Shanghai Ocean Aquarium: It is a huge and well-designed place with an enormous amount of sea life. Kids will be delighted for hours and not want to leave.

Shanghai Science and Technology Museum: Another great attraction for kids, the hands-on exhibits are creative and educational, including nature and technoland.

Thanks so much for the info. I am going 1-11 March starting in beijing, then Xian and Shanghai for the last 3 days. Its all work but we have some free time on this trip between fairs. I am staying just beside the shanghai stadium the the regal east asia hotel. Not my first choice but it is near the fairs. I usually stay at the JC mandarin on Nan jing Rd. Its just ok in the rooms but handy for our offices and I can get a pizza across the road when I am hungry for some more western food. I ate only Chinese food for 10 days and was missing some western style food that is not from the hotel. Every country makes their own Pizza on the room service menu and its never that nice....I always go down a few pounds from eating more healthy chinese food!

The market we went to was the Is the Feng Xiang gift market. Its ok and harder on my own...one girl was wrecking my head as she kept pulling my arm to bring me back in and I thought its not worth the haggling. I get tired going alone haggling. When an Irish group go we tend to do better as we haggle as a group and have fun with the traders and they always end up with a sale from one of us. I also do not want to Drag my Chinese friend all over as she is wonderful aand we get Chinese prices when she buys something as well (they hate me when I buy the same item as its not a big profit. Poor woman was fuming in the pearl market when she took me to a place she bought a cute sweater as she had to charge the same price (4 euro!)

Thanks for the tailor I wil check it out. What types of items do you have made here? I can bring my friend with me. I had a stunning QiPao made and velvet shoulder cape at QinYi in the shqnghai centre. It cost me a packet but is so stunning and I love it. I had 3 fittings and it is perfect and good quality but I paid for that

I will look up the box in my room the bedding came in. It was really lovely design and quality. They also were making feather duvets in the back room. Its not far from the french concession and near a H&M shop. I will have a look at the map.


Any other tips or interesing places to go in the evenings would be great. We will be in a group of Irish people as we do this trip each year. We were at the opening of ireland week in Shanghai and brought along to make up the numbers. It was lovely as they had irtish music and dancing outdoors (We froze!) and one of the ladies in ou5r group actually knew the two musicians from Ireland....small world!

I have several qipao's that are decades old my DM gave me so I have enough. I usually get blouses, jackets, pants and skirts made, all with samples I bring from the US, also had a trench coat copied.

I don't go out a lot in the evenings except for dinners, after that I watch chinese TV with my family/relatives. Isn't O'Malley's Pub the "IT" place for Irish expats?

I was looking for western clothes to be made so that sounds perfect. I am starting to look a bit hippy these days with all my mixed clothes. I need some tailored items for work!

I have not been to O'Malleys but there is always an ireland International Match when we go in March and we went to the Blarney stone last time...Bizzare as it was like a country irish Bar with a typical country barman at the taps. It was too small and crowded so i think we will go to O'Malleys for the match this year. Its 2 days before we leave so we finally can relax and let our hair down and have a few drinks and socialise. I am looking forward to it again. They had the first St Patricks day Parade in Shanghai last year as well...Missed it by a week. We are a tight bunch the Irish and seem to be linked by aquaintances no matter where we are in the world. Its nice.

Will post any new places we eat at and will be eating our a bit in XIan with my froiend who comes from there. Beijing we are boring and eat in a nice Thai near the hotel or just in the hotel as we have functions to attend at night. I stay near the pearl matket but must expand my horizons. Will post any questions if you don't mind before I leave again. Can't wait!

S

My apologies for not finishing the notes but this is the last part.

SOME THOUGHTS

Golden Weeks: rkkwan was the first to post about the government loosening the 3 Golden Weeks holiday time for the chinese so they can be flexible throughout the year on deciding when they go on vacation instead of the 1st week of May, the 1st week of October and the week of Spring Festival (starts 2/7 this year). This is great for non-chinese visitors so there won't be the massive amount of domestic travelers and the hotel rates will be somehow reasonable for the 1st week of May and October. I can't speak the same for Spring Festival, that is not a negotiable holiday and everyone wants to be with their families.

MSG: Yes, the majority of restaurants in China use it to "enhance" the flavor of the dishes. If you don't like it or are allergic to it, please tell them -- bu (2nd tone) yao (4th tone) wei (4th tone) jing (1st tone). A friend of mine had to be rushed to ER from an allergic reaction.

Pollution: Although the government is working on it, it's not going to improve overnight. Travelers complain they often get sick, there is not much prevention against it except build up your immune system before you go and stay healthy.

Water at the Airport: The PVG Airport in Shanghai has drinking water stations with cone shaped paper cups. I bought a bottle of water after I cleared security and stuck the 1/2 empty bottle on the side of my large shoulder bag, but was ordered to toss it before boarding. I saw fellow passengers on the same flight with water bottles they purchased, they said they stuck the bottle INSIDE their bags ...

PEAK TIME SUBWAY & TAX TRAVEL: Like any large city, traveling at peak time on a crowded subway is not enjoyable so try to avoid it. The same goes for taxis, getting stuck in heavy traffic is not a good experience.

DISPARITY BETWEEN THE WEALTHY & THE POOR: Yes, it is getting more and more polarized and I'm not sure if or how the government is going to address it. The number of deformed beggars have multiplied on the streets which breaks my heart, yet the locals just shrug them off.

Hi Shanghainese. Do you remember me from our wonderful GTG in SF in the fall?

I just found out we're going on a corporate trip to the Olympics in Beijing for 4 days and then will have 4 days with hubby on our own. I'm excited, but a little freaked out too because I know so little about China.

I just posted on the Asia forum under "Four Days in China" and hope to get some suggestions. Perhaps you can convince us to go to Shanghai?

Yes, the lovely lady with bright eyes, big smile and chic haircut at the other end of the looong table; I sat next to TY who kept helping himself to my soup/entree/dessert and later slid under the table!

I responded to your post, I bet you are excited, if I can get your e-mail address, we can discuss further or perhaps do a mini-GTG? Btw, are you attending the 3/8/08 GTG at the same place?

Shanghainese,
I enjoy reading your posts. I would be grateful for some information. I will be a member of a surgical mission scheduled for July, Based in Shenyang. Never traveled to China and receiving the news of becomming a 'team member' yesterday,I am completely in the dark. The mission is 2 weeks , I would like to see an Olyimpic game and then travel for 4-5 days returning to US. Help..Thank you, Maxine

Maxine -- If you'd like to see an Olymlic game starting 8/8/08, please get on it right away and book your lodging too, it's getting very crowded and pricy.

Your request for help is too vague, I have no idea what you prefer, large cities vs. small towns, museums vs. natural scenery, etc. You need to give some idea and budget. Is your ticket roundtrip from Shenyang?

Thanks Shanghainese, loved your report. I am going to Shanghai for my 40 year college reunion (we are from Taiwan) in May and I have e-mailed your report to my classmates, I am sure we will follow some of your advice/suggestions. Thanks for posting.

Here is our 11-days itinerary. Have you ever been to any of these places? Any comments? We will be booking a 4-stars tour that starts and ends in Shanghai with a local travel agency, as one of our classmates is living near Shanghai now.

Zhangjiajie, Jiuzhaigou, Lijiang, Dali, and Kunming.

The quotes we received so far are around 12,000 RMB per person.

We will be staying in Rui Zhou Hotel in Hong Qiao as a group, our classmate in China has negotiated a rate of 228RMB per night for us.

My husband (he is non-Chinese and doesn't speak any Chinese)and I will stay an additional week in Shanghai after the class tour, we have booked into the J W Marriott in Tomorrow Square.

I have no idea where Hong Qiao and Tomorrow Square are in relation to where you were staying in the French concession. Is it hard to go to the restaurants you recommended from where we are staying? I read and write Chinese (traditional), speak both Mandarin and Shanghainese, so it should not be to difficult for us to get around either with public transportation or taxi.

I have reserved seats for Rick and I on China Eastern for $915/pp including tax. Is it better to book now or wait? Does the rate go down if we wait?

Any help/comments are appreciated.

Pat

Pat -- The 11 day class tour destinations are great, probably designed for someone who's doing a 2nd trip to China since it doesn't include Beijing and Xian. 12,000 rmb sounds steep to me, would you like to check through my travel agent for better rates? I can give you her e-mail address.

Rui Zhou Hotel's rate is good for May, they cater to groups and is located at the east end of the city near the Hong Qiao Airport that handles domestic flights. A $6-8 cab can get you to the old french concession. JW Marriott is more upscale on Nanjing Road West a couple of blocks from People's Square, the center of the city, cab fare $3-4 to the old french concession.

Is the China Eastern flight from TPE to PVG? Have you checked other airlines? I am not sure the rates will go down between now and May which is peak travel season.

Have fun at your re-union!

Shanghainese,

We are flying from LAX to PVG, China Eastern has not release the flight cost beyond May 2 yet.

This will be my 3rd trip to China, the first time I went with Pacific Delight, did the Shanghai, Beijing, Xian...the first timer's itinerary. The second time was a junior HS reunion, 4 of us, one week in Beijing and one week in Shanghai. (two of the jr. HS classmates live there now) We didn't do much sight seeing, played ma-jong and chit chatted the whole time.

Is your travel agent based in China? Our classmate in China said that real negotiations with the travel agencies will start in late March, the price should be much lower. I should just let him do his thing and not butt in.

Pat

Pat -- My TA is based in SF, website is info@jc-travel.com you might ask her to check LA - PVG fare, just substitute info with her name fielan for her e-mail address.

Do you have plans already for the week after the class tour? Wonder if Rick would enjoy a week of ma-jong and chit chat ...

Where did you learn your shanghainese? My chow pal easytraveler likes Mei Long Village in San Gabriel and Sam Woo in Irvine, a friend mentioned Dao Xiang (Rice Fragrance) a tiny place in Alhambra, would you share your favorites?

Dear Shanghainese,

I e-mailed Fielan a couple of days ago for the airfare, she quoted $1085.

Funny you should mention the ma-jong and chit chat, I have been really worried about neglecting Rick when I am over there. Of course ma-jong is out of the question, but it will be hard to include him in most of the conversations. The last week will just be the two of us (I hope), my classmate offered the use of his car and driver for the week.

Rick works up in Walnut Creek quite a bit, sometimes I go up with him. We love the Great China Restaurant in Berkeley, the Peking duck there is much better than the ones we had in Beijing.

Around the Southland, I like the dim sum in China Garden in Irvine, the house lobster in Newport Seafood in San Gabriel. Favorite Shanghainese restaurant is the Lulu's Bamboo House in Temple City, great Te Pon and sea cucumber.

I was born in Shanghai, moved to Hong Kong when I was 2, then to Taiwan a couple of years later. Both parents are Shanghainese, we spoke Shanghainese at home. The Shanghainese they speak in Shanghai now is more integrated with Mandarin. According to them, mine is more like how the county people speaks, but I like to think that mine is more pure.

My e-mail address is p_hoffman@pacbell.net.

Pat

Pat: Great to meet "you" -- another Shanghai-born Fodorite! Our spoken shanghainese is definitely purer than the current trend, most service industry persons in hotels, restaurants, shops, etc. are from out of town so they only speak mandarin or broken shanghainese. The younger locals borrow HongKong and Taiwan words and mix them with the local dialect, such as tsa dou = taxi and mai tan = check please.

You are not the first person who mentions the duck at Great China is better than in Beijing, well, I have yet to be convinced. Anyway, would love to met with you and Rick when you come north, my DH is a "lau wai" too.

Is your e-mail hoffman@pacbell.net or
p_hoffman@pacbell.net?

My e-mail is p_hoffman@pacbell.net (the is p underscore hoffman) or pmeng@usc.edu. Either one will get to me.

Rick is heading up to Walnut Creek this coming Sunday, but I am starting my income tax volunteer work with IRS/AARP the following week, so I won't be able to join him. Would love to get together with you and you lau wai husband when we are up there.

Pat

ttt for Monica P.

Topping for Good Will

topping for twofortheroad

topping for EdEdwards for food in Shanghai.

Thanks, Shanghainese, I found it! How do we find that dumpling place a few blocks north of Renmin -- is it "Jia Jia Tangbao"? I'm sure, if it's a hole in the wall, that there's no English to identify it. Do you know if it's open all day?

I'm glad to read about the Outlet Mall, too -- my wife and I would have been tempted to see it out of curiosity were it not for your post.

Also -- we're wondering about staying at the Ramada vs. the Meridian, on Nanjing Lu. I believe they're close to one another and to Renmin, and we walked into the Ramada lobby while in Shanghai a few years ago, so we know it's glitzy -- but beyond that, we have no idea what it may be like. We have Starwood points for the Meridian, however, and if the Meridian is nicer we'd probably want to stay there instead.

Lastly, since the folks above seem to really know their food -- on both sides of the Pacific -- I wonder if anyone has any favorite Shanghai style restaurants in San Diego?

Thanks again.

Thanks again for all your great info.

..my 2 cents....never stayed at the Ramada, but we loved the Meridien

Have a great trip!

At the west corner of the Park Hotel (a few doors west of the Ramada & a block from the Meridian, all across from Renmin Sq.) turn right/north and walk a couple of blocks, it's on the right-hand side. If you ask the locals, they will gladly point you in the right direction. It's open all day with a line out the door. Across the street is the famous pan-fried dumpling place.

Sorry, don't know about the Ramada vs. the Meridian, and no idea about shanghai-style food places in San Diego, hope somewhere else will join in, or post it on the US/California board.

Thanks again. The problem, of course, in asking the locals is that something often gets lost in translation. The trick is finding a local both English speaking and in the know. I remember so many people were anxious to help give us directions and speak a little English during our last trip -- but if we had 2 or 3 people trying to help us on the street at the same time, they invariably all had different directions! Of course, even if directed to the wrong restaurant, we probably couldn't go wrong...

I know this question may seem a little strange but can anyone recommend a restaurant in Toronto where I can find good baozi? We visited China last year and loved the dumplings and also the duck but live in a small town. We'll visit Toronto in October and I'm hoping Chinatown will be a source of great food.

spring: I'd post your question on the Canada board and see if anyone there can give you a restaurant.

My recollection is that some of the better chinese restaurants were located up in Markham, but I could be wrong.

EdEdwards: there's probably not a good Shanghai restaurant in San Diego as yet. I've been to several in Los Angeles and they weren't the greatest. It's difficult to find a good Shanghai -style restaurant in the States, they are not as popular as Cantonese, Mandarin or Szechwan/Hunan.

Thank you easytraveler. I will try the Canada forum.

My wife and I will be in Shanghai for four nights in September. First three will be as part of a tour group. On day 4, we are on our own. Thinking we may want to spend that day in Suzhou doing our own "Garden Tour". By day 4, we will have seen the Yu Gardens, the Shanghai Museum, an acobatic performance, done some shopping and gone to Zhu Jia Jiao. So we could use some help deciding whether we should spend the 4th day in Shanghai or venture to Suzhou? Any and all comments would be helpful. If Suzhou is a good choice, should we hire a driver or take the train on our own?

letsplaytwo, I haven't been to Zhu Jia Jiao, but looking at information about it on the net, it looks to me like it will give you a good taste of "water towns." The other main reason to go to Suzhou, beyond the water features, is for the exquisite gardens, each a real jewel. The Suzhou silk connection is, imho, over-rated, with a few silk factories that are interesting but not unmissable. It was nice seeing how they get the fibers from the silk worms, but you could see that in a documentary and probably get a closer view.

So, unless you're really interested in gardens, I'd suggest you might want to spend your extra day getting lost in Shanghai, which is a wonderful and incredibly interesting city -- away from your tour group. But I think it depends on your travel style. Personally, my family and I prefer to linger in a place -- for instance, we're planning 5 full days in China this October, with perhaps one day visiting Xitang (a town apparently similar to Zhu Jia Jiao, built on canals, etc.)

Whoops - I meant we're planning 5 full days in Shanghai in October, with one perhaps for Xitang. And we did spend several full days in Suzhou on our last trip - and enjoyed it very much - but then, we do enjoy both lingering and gardens.

EdEdwards -- If you like gardens in watertowns, check out Tongli vs. Xitang.

A two for one? Sounds good. I'll look into Tongli, too. How far is it out of Shanghai, by taxi or bus?

Tongli is approx. 50 miles from Shanghai, taxi takes 1.5 hours at least to get thru Shanghai traffic, once outside the city it goes quite fast on the freeway.

There are air conditioned sightseeing buses leaving a few times a day from the Shanghai Stadium. Or train to Suzhou and transfer to a small bus for 12 miles to Tongli.

I meant the whole trip takes about 1.5 hours, the slow part is getting out of the city.

Thanks for the info on Tongli. I read one travel book blurb that suggested that Tongli is what Suzhou must have been like before industrialization and tourism hit. I gather there's one particularly interesting home and garden to visit, along with the usual homes and restaurants on canals. Any special tips about other things to see or do there?

WOW! How did I miss seeing this report when it first came out??

Glad to see this too! I will send this to DS who leaves for Shanghai in a couple of weeks.

Thanks, Mary.

Mels! Are you planning a China trip? Monica is going in Oct and I'm going again with DH in Oct/Nov (planning on some sightseeing this time), unfortunately our schedules don't overlap.

Ed -- Don't forget to take a boat trip in Tongli, seeing the town from the water gives a different experience than walking. I missed the sex culture museum while waiting for my gray pearls earrings and necklace being strung.

Water, gardens and a sex culture museum -- now Tongli's got it all! I hadn't realized the museum had moved from Shanghai. We didn't see it when we were in Shanghai last time, but it does sound like a real curiosity. Do you think the Tongli tourist boat trips will still be offered in late October, when we get there?

Also, if anyone has stayed at the Ramada in Shanghai and can comment on the Ramada vs. the nearby Meridien, it would still be much appreciated, thanks.

The Tongli boat rides are offered yearround, like gondolas, you hire your own boat and rower for your party.

Hi Shanghainese, no...no trips to China in the very near future, but one can always dream!
Alooooha
Melissa

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Responding to the article you sent "Postcard from Tom Sietsema" on Shanghai restaurants:

Chun -- hard to get in with only 4 tables, and I cannot recommend the snails, they are not escargots, these are water snails, host to parasites that could cause ill effects even after cooked or spiked with alchohol.

Guyi -- serves hunan, not shanghai food.

Fu 1039 -- too expensive and the signature dishes are not very special unless you want to try the peanut ice-cream.

Since you have limited time in Shanghai and are visiting other areas in China, advise stay with local foods. For soup dumplings, Jia Jia behind the Park Hotel or Nanxiang at the Yuyuan Bazaar; for shanghai-style small plates, Lubolang, also at the Bazaar. For dinner, Xiao Nan Guo at the Reijin Guesthouse and I'll suggest another one after you confirm your hotel so you don't have to go far at night.

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I'm so lowtech, have trouble copying the thread over for you.

Shanghainese,

I am having a hard time remembering which post I emailed you on about the pearls.

Also and here's the big question, I planned to be in Beijing 5 plus days and 3 days in Shanghai. Does that schedule make sense? I'm not sure.

Many thanks.

Lisa

Ed, I'll be staying at both the Ramada and the Meridien in mid-Oct. but don't know if you can wait until then for a review.

Thanks, moremiles, but it will be too late. Decided to stay at Meridien, using Starwood points. Have found nothing but positive reviews about the hotel on this site.

Lisa -- your schedule is fine if that's all the time you have.

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I am SO glad this thread came up again...A big xie xie to Shanghainese. I am headed that way next March and cannot wait. Will only have 2-3 days (plan to take train to Hong Kong from Shanghai and still do not have that schedule) so have to plan VERY carefully for all meals...

Bookmarking

Can anyone recommend a clean place to stay in Tongli.

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Thanks, S! I have been so overwhelmed with home renovations that I have barely done any research for this upcoming trip. But I will begin my re-reading your report! You know me, eating and shopping will be key activities in Shanghai! I topped a thread about pearl shopping for you..

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Thanks, Shanghainese!
GREAT info here!!

Hi Shanghainese! Your post was great. I have been living in Shanghai for the past 3 years and it has given me new things to discover!
I have just finished a sound project here that offers an even more intimate walk through the not-so-known areas in Shanghai. www.growingupwithshanghai.com. Thanks!

Great project, good luck to you!

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Mahalo Shanghai! Just printed out.

Aloha!

TTT

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Jozeph: You do not need a private guide in Shanghai, it has a user-friendly metro system that gets you from the airport to downtown and all the major sights. Click on my name, I did another Notes for spring 2012 you can check.

Have you gone to Shanghai already? If not, just post your questions and we'll help you.

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Nice Report.. Thanks

we loved shanghai. it is a world class city which rivals any I know of.

your suggestions were a great help to us in enjoying ourselves

Thanks for your great suggestion of restaurants. Lost Heaven was heavenly. Shanghai is a beautiful city and it is incredible to see how much development has gone on in the last 20 years. To think that the pudong area was farm land only 20 years ago, gives one pause for thought and shows how amazing the Chinese people have been in bringing forward their nation to become a leading world nation!9

not so sure about the chinese people---but for sure the government and business leaders

I appreciate the Fodorites who have come back from China and take the time to give their comments here about Shanghai.

For those who haven't been yet, note I have a follow-up for my 2 months in Shanghai this spring which has more updated info.

Happy Holidays!