I am sorry - but you are not spending any time anywhere. The only place you stop long enough to take a breath is Amsterdam.

You have 2 days in Rome, half a day in Venice, a couple of hours in Florence, a few hours on the Cinque Terre, 1.5 days in London.

You are spending more time on trains than in any of those cities.

I honestly think you and your friend need to decide which places you will cut from the trip.

What happened to day 13? Are you eliminating it as some buildings eliminate the 13th floor?

You're spending more time in Pisa than in Venice - a little strange IMHO.

You're spending a day traveling back and forth from Paris to London just for 1 day in London.

Why are you flying home from Paris and not from London?

Is this itinerary workable? Yes

Is it enjoyable and will you see very much? No

It would be easier to get a low-cost flight (such as easyJet) from Milan to Paris. It would be easier still to originally fly into Amsterdam and for you to fly home from London rather than going to Paris three times. The current route is knotted up, costing you both time and money. You might be able to change your ticket to a more efficient itinerary that will offset any penalty the airline charges.

Hahaha.....good spot Adrienne. Day 13 sure is in ParisFor my country, normally we will eliminating 14th floor.

Thanks a lot to all!! Still contemplating which places should drop and figure out what is best.

One day in Venice...I could not imagine! One day in Pisa is fine if all you want to see is the leaning tower. And 3 days in Paris is in mho not enough time! You have to whittle this trip down..you are trying to do too much! You aren't going to see half of what you should! You need at least 2 days (and that's not enough, I don't think) in Venice at least 3 days in Rome. You are going to miss a lot of great things in Rome with only 2 days scheduled there. Do you have to revisit London? If you've already been to London I would use that valuable time to experience Paris & Italy. Just mho...I couldn't imagine doing your itiniary! Good luck!

e. As for the train/flight related concerns/questions will post that in a different forum once the itinerary is firmed>

Well before then for starters check out these superb IMO sites for train info - and you are not doing enough rail travel over all to even consider any kind of railpass - www.seat61.com - great info on online discounted tickets you may want - www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

Booking trains like the Thalys train WAY way in advance is imperative to save lots of money - just show up and you may pay $100 or more p.p. than the early booking - check www.thalys.com and yes book as soon as your train comes on the system - 120 days before I believe but am not sure.

As usual I disagree with all replies. Everyone is obsessed with spending days upon days to "truly see and appreciate a city"
That's fine, if your 90 and never plan to travel again!
The trip of my life was a Contiki and we spent one day per city on average. Yes you have to be organized, and ambitious but you can certainly see Rome, Paris Amsterdam and London in a day or two, of course not everything, but enough to decide where you want to spend time on your next trip! Milan is overrated, skip. Pisa, same, hordes of vendors, a tower that leans, the end.
Eurostar to London is fast and efficient albeit expensive. You should research a budget flight but keep in mind, the train takes much less time to check in, and is much easier to get to the train station than an airport. Also upon arrival you are in central London rather than at an airport outside of town.
Go for it, get a glimpse of as much as you can then you can always come back to what you love.

<you can certainly see Rome, Paris Amsterdam and London in a day or two, of course not everything, but enough to decide where you want to spend time on your next trip!>

I could not disagree more. I took my mother to Rome for 1.5 days and she ended up hating it because we were rushing around trying to see as much as possible and she never had a chance to really enjoy the city.

Some places need more than 1 or 2 days to understand and get to know. But if all you want to do is check the box on your "to see" list, then by all means go for it!

Ling_ie, I'm doing something similar in February - visiting Paris, London and Rome in 14 days - and I've done similar rushed itineraries in other countries/cities.

What I'm currently doing right now is planning a detailed hour-by-hour itinerary and giving myself pockets of time here and there for flight delays, transport delays and moments where I just get grumpy and want to sit somewhere and return to normal. I'm also prioritizing cities where I really want to see the sights (Paris and Rome) and cities where I can just relax and chill because I've already visited them (London). For the cities where I'm short on time, I usually schedule one guided day tour so I can make the most of my time there. Search this forum for useful threads like 'Paris in 24 hours' where Fodorites have given useful advice to travellers who are in Paris or London for a one day stopover.

Hope this helps you, although I understand what may work for me may not work for you. Just a tip, though: a few hours in a large city is never enough. I did that on a previous trip and I regretted not having enough time to explore City A, as well as robbing time from City B that I would have enjoyed exploring in further detail. It'd be better for you to pare down your itinerary to a few must-see cities?

Jblois: "As usual I disagree with all replies. "

What is this 'as usual'?? Since you JUST registered and this is your one an only ever post. So either you've never been here before or you are a Fodorite posting under a new name to hide behind.

"Everyone is obsessed with spending days upon days . . . "

No one suggested spending days and days - but 4 or 5 hours in Venice ain't hacking it

My own view is that 15 days should be 3-5 cities for cities you have never visited before.

I suggest: London, Paris, Amsterdam, Rome in that order with an open jaw flight.

Take Eurostar to Paris (a few hours), Thalys to Amsterdam (a few hours), then sleeper train to Rome (from Amsterdam if there is one, otherwise from Paris). Not much time wasted in transit.

This allows three or four days in each city. Obviously if you had more time, you could spend longer time in each without ever getting bored...and my own preference would be fewer cities...but this should give you a relaxing and rewarding experience.

SS

I agree that the Fodorite mentality - coming mainly from elderly Fodorgarchs - the mantra is you have to spend several days in every stop to fully appreciate it - is subjective and ignores other types of travel, like mine, where I enjoy traveling as much or more as the cities or places in between.

That said only part of one day in Venice and just two days in Rome I think is inadequate to even begin to get a feel for those amazing places.

Amsterdam (a few hours), then sleeper train to Rome (from Amsterdam if there is one, otherwise from Paris)>

None from Amsterdam but could take overnight train from there to Zurich and then go to Milan, etc. but fastest way to Rome would be overnight train from Paris and Thalys from Amsterdam - sometimes Thalys return tickets can be really cheap. But then I guess I'd fly from London to Amsterdam or take the Chunnel trains from London to Brussels and go straight away to Amsterdam, then do Paris, the the night train to Rome (www.thello.com for that train operator's site and the early bird again gets the worm there with fares as low as 59 euros if you book early and can stand multi-person compartments.

PQ: I believe you are the only one posting who fits the description >>elderly Fodorgarch<<

We are all different. I'm in my 40s now and don't travel the same that I did in my 20s with a backpack and a boyfriend (who is now the husband and father of the kids). I admit I'm more Fodorgarch than backpacker now, but I am definitely of the mindset you need at least a couple days to experience each place and not get completely burnt out and distracted by the daily hotel changes. And most of the places you want to see are big, urban areas... sometimes travelling from the airport/train area can be a good 45-minutes to an hour into the sights (as in Paris, Rome, Florence, etc). You are spending a lot of your time travelling about that seems wasteful in your schedule. But hey, that's just me.

We did something similar in the 90s, travelling from Paris to Rome over the course of 23 days with Paris, Switzerland, Venice, Como, Florence, Siena, and Rome in between. It was exhausting. I can't imagine trying to do that over 15 days, even then with 1 bag and the energy of a 25 year old.

All that said, I'll give some feedback.

To me, it's confusing why you're including that little trip to London. Are you visiting someone, or just wanting to see it for a moment before turning around and going back to Paris? I agree perhaps flying home from London makes more sense than training back. Or perhaps skipping london altogether.

If I only had 15 days I'd scale back a lot, or arrange the visit geographically a bit better.

I'd drop Pisa unless you have a deep desire to see the leaning tower. There is so much more to see in almost all of the other places on your list than Pisa. Spent about an hour there during a train layover. Completely unnecessary compared to say, the Duomo in Florence.

You might drop the Cinque Terre because it's likely to still be cold and rainy that time of year. Plus I'm not sure if all the trail restoration will be complete by then. Don't get me wrong, it's a stunning place I've visited many times, but you need at least a day or two there (or longer) to relax and take in the charm of the hill towns and take a walk or two along the trails. And you will eat up a day getting to them, as the trains are the small regional trains.

Only one night in Florence, a crime! A crime I tell you!

With such little time, I might try flying from Paris to Amsterdam, and also using a flight from Amsterdam down to Rome, then use the fast trains only for travelling north through the countryside from Rome to Florence with a stay in Florence, then from florence to Venice (a fast train). (Also arranging it this way puts you in Venice at the end of your trip when it's less likely to be damp and raining in Venice.)

Now getting from venice back to paris, the train ride would have very scenic parts through the alps, but it's a very LONG trip by train. You could return and take a fast train back to Rome then a flight to Paris. Or you could train over to Milan and hop on a plane to Paris. You aren't going to have a lot of time for long train rides in a 15-day trip.

Settle down JanisJ, there is a world outside of Fodors, and many other travel sites, just because I'm new here does not mean I haven't seen this same dogmatic argument posted 1000 other travel sites.

Take your mother and she hated it? Irrelevant, no one here is asking about taking their parents.
This arrogance of refusing to acknowledge any other method of travel is silly, I've been to Europe 17 times, and spent a week in some towns, and 4 hours in others. There is no single way to travel. I say blast through as much as you feel you can handle the first time, ride the adrenaline! Unless your adult children are taking you on the trip, you'll likely be back to cherish the places you loved.

There's a lot of heated discussion out there about this one today! Of course you have to do what inspires you but it would be helpful to know why you are visiting these cities. Do you want to see museums? Are you shopping? Is it walking the streets that grabs you? Or are you interested in taking a quick look with a definite view to returning later?

If you have a particular site in mind in Venice, for instance, you might miss it completely by the time other factors kick in. Let's say you want to go to San Marco - you might have to deal with delayed trains (very common in Italy), long queues even to get on a vaporetto from the station (and it can take forty minutes alone to get from the station to San Marco) and then more queues to get into San Marco itself (an hour?) You'd be heading back to the station before you had a chance to see anything at all.

For me this trip would be way too rushed. I would also not want to spend such a large percentage of my travel time moving between cities - with just 15 days I would pick maybe three places and promise myself to get to the other places in the future.

My suggestion is to list the things you want to see in order of importance and then remake the trip to reflect that. Personally I'd be doing Amsterdam, Rome, Paris and leaving the rest of Italy for when I could really spend some time there.

PO has made her/his preference for a style of travel several times - either help her/him with her query and stop judging and ridiculing her/his travel style, which BTW is a lot like my own.

You do not need to spend a week in every stop to fully appreciate it - well some do but many like myself get bored in any town after a few days and rather than say stay in Paris for a week would rather hit 2 or 3 French regional towns instead - Paris plus France is better for me and many than just Paris - again this is subjective and the OP has emphatically stated her/his travel preference so why keep trying to say she/he should slow down?

You could fly out of Pisa to Paris. Easyjet has cheap flights to Paris Orly.

I agree, skip the CT that time of year. If it rains, there's nothing to do or see.

Have you looked into the cost of changing your plane tickets? Say flying into Paris or Amsterdam and out of Rome? Might be worth it, given the cost and especially the time to backtrack.

I've got to agree with the fewer places, more time in one spot. Like most here, I've done it both ways, and I prefer slower travel.

I would not avoid the Cinque Terre in May as that would IMO be a wondrous time there - nice weather - never heard of a lot of rain in May any more than any other place here and you have the towns to yourself practically as the summer tourist hoards have not yet come - indeed IMO a time to avoid the 5 Terre is in summer when the small towns are literally often elbow to elbow with tourists.

Of course if it is raining there is not much to do but what are the chances of rain in May - maybe much more than I think, having been in the area a few Mays - 5 Terre are so so unique and in still non hectic season I'd go for it.

PQ: I believe you are the only one posting who fits the description >>elderly Fodorgarch<<

Janis I luv your satire!

I was basing my "miss it" on travelling there in early May and how congested her schedule was. The last 1-2 weeks of May are stunning and worth a trip when you have a few days to devote to this breathtaking region. But, given a schedule of only 15 days and all those cities, I'm not sure where CT fits into her itinerary and what kind of time she could devote to CT. It'll take a half or full day of traveling to get there, then another half or full day travelling out. Don't quote me on the specifics, but one trip I left Florence by train, had a transfer and 2 hour layover in Pisa (which allowed me to literally run to the Leaning Tower with my luggage rolling behind me), then I ran back and think I got on a train to La Spezia or Genova, and then transferred again to the little regional train that goes through the CT. It was a long day of travel, but then after that I devoted several days of relaxation to the CT. If the OP arrived in CT after all that travel, she may only arrive in one of the villages with enough time to grab dinner and see a sunset, then maybe the next morning a quick stroll on the easiest of trails before she is required to check out by 11 am, assuming she would want to be back on the road for her next destination. If that is really all the OP wants to experience from this trip to the CT, then it could work. Sometimes just arriving in a destination for just a few hours can give someone the feel of a place. For others, it might seem like an awful lot of effort and the experiences perhaps not as enchanting.

The good news is that, if she really just wants to "see" all those places she can probably choreograph all the train connections and layovers with the wonders of the internet. Fifteen years ago we had an old fashioned paper rail schedule that came with our rail pass.

Just pack lightly, bring a good pair of running shoes, and a smart phone.

Thank you for all your time spent helping me here, really appreciated.

We will cut down 1 or max 2 cities, eve though I know still a rushed itinerary, but like what Maccabee said " decide what is must see, which cities for relax and chill out and cities which short on time, schedule one guided tour.
I believe with this combination will made our trip more adventure and memorable.

Maccabee… Wish you have a wonderful and safe trip

Jblois - Actually I thought before to join Contiki, but this program is not so popular in Asia, thus not dare to take it as safetly concern.

PalenQ ….. The "seat 61" website is really cool. Is help a lots.

Mbolggs….thank for the question " Are you interested in taking a quick look with a definite view to returning later?" It is worth pondering.

Arghh…..we are really in a pickle…. Now I am fighting with my friend, she would like to cut down Amsterdam but I said Milan & Pisa. Hope we could achieve kind of mutual agreement.

As for London,I have checked the penalty is EURO 250 if changed my flight out from London instead of Paris. It is not worth it.

Doryyoung, Skatterfly……London is a place to remember him. Revisiting London equivalent revisiting pain. Not aimlessly, but with a purpose. No without hope, but with peace and sweet memory.

cheers, lingie

Ling_ie, hope you have a wonderful and safe trip too!

Sorry to hear you and your friend are fighting about the itinerary. Maybe you can compromise by splitting up for a few days? You can stay in Amsterdam while she goes first to Milan and Pisa, and then you can meet her in Rome? Then you two can do Florence, Venice and Cinque Terre together before heading up to Paris.

Also, if you are taking the Eurostar from Paris to London, try to book as early as possible. I learnt an expensive lesson today when I waited a bit too long to buy my Eurostar tickets. Two weeks ago, the prices were relatively okay, so I thought I'd wait for January's salary to come in first. When I went to book the tickets online today, I saw the fares have jumped up by at least £20, so book as early as you can since you're very sure you're going to London!

All the best for your trip!

Yes on Chunnel trains London to Paris the early bird doth get the worm - act as soon as you know when you want to go and the fare comes on the system - but note the cheaper tickets are non-refundable nor changeable so be sure of your date and time.

www.eurostar.com is the site and is easy to work - an e-ticket I believe and the cheaper seats IME are more available on the slacker days of the week - Tues, Wed and Thurs so planning an escape from London on those days could be better availability of discounted and limited in number tickets than on busier weekend time days.

Actually I thought before to join Contiki, but this program is not so popular in Asia, thus not dare to take it as safetly concern.>

Safety a concern with Contiki Tours - surprised you think that - Contiki are one of the most reputable tour groups for younger folk - say early 30s and under. I have seen their groups many places and I would say they are very safe - I think that is a serious misunderstanding and they do have a significant number of Asians on their tours - Asian Americans - anyway any company owned by a large Swiss bank can't be that bad!