Leaving aside Croatia (not in Schengen), other two countries are in Schengen and you can only stay in total 90 days in 180 days, if you aren't European citizens.

Are you going by car or train? I would recommend for that slow-moving trip - a plus IMO - and a 4-yr old you'll rent a car - if so check into drop-off charges if renting in one country and dropping off in another - can be very steep. For lots of good info on trains if they are in the mix check out these IMO fantastic sites - www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.seat61.com.

Perhaps for such a long trip leasing a car like thru the Renault proram (if still around) would be better than renting but still may have to return to France to drop it off without daunting charges.

Or rent in each country - drop off in Nice, take the train to nearby Italy, rent there - return in Italy and fly or take a ferry to Croatia and rent one there?

Renting or leasing a car makes little sense given your intended itinerary. Most of your stays are in areas (Paris, Cinque Terre, Rome etc.) where a car is useless. Given the length of stay in each area, a point-to-point purchase of train tickets ahead of time (for steep discounts) might be in order.

The recommendation for stays of a week or more is generally to rent an apartment, which also has the advantage of avoiding eating out all the time.

There was an excellent recent trip report on travels around Paris, which might be of interest to you to see some French countryside; others might know the specific reference. A day trip to Giverny would also be worthwhile.

Here's the trip report I was thinking of:

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/10-days-hardly-in-paris-wandering-the-ile-de-france.cfm

Paris, Cinque Terre, Rome etc.) where a car is useless. Given the length of stay in each area, a point-to-point purchase of train tickets ahead of time (for steep discounts) might be in order.>

And also check out the France-Italy railpass if doing the train - teh more days the cheaper per day it becomes and can rival point to point tickets and often, if traveling enough, beat them and also give you flexibility to chcose which trains to take once there and not have to book online discounts that cannot be changed often and which are sold in limited numbers so much be booked weeks in advance to guarantee.

That said the pass dictates a 3 (sometimes more) euro per TGV or Corail Teoz trains above the pass prices and 10 euros in Italy so factor that in as well.

The France-Italy Railpass is a flexipass, valid for two months and you buy a certain number of unlimited travel days to be used when you want over that 2-month period, which begins when you activate the pass in Europe at a train station ticket window. And I think a 5 year old always travels free on trains in both countries though this does not guarantee him/her a seat.

I love the idea of three whole weeks in Paris, but if you really want to see some "French countryside" you might want to take a 3- or 4-day (or even a week) trip to someplace in the country not too far away, like Normandy or Brittany or Burgundy or Strasbourg or the Loire. Just a thought (I'm usually trying to convince people to spend MORE time in Paris). At any rate, with 3 weeks, you certainly have time for at least a few nice day trips out of the city.

(Decided to skip French Riviera, would love suggestions on how to see "French Country Side, perhaps a day road trip)>

I agree with St Cirq - why not spend some days in the French countryside, which really is not all that accesssible on a day trip from Paris - when heading to Italy you could well go via say Burgundy or Provence (Avignon-Arles) area - two places where you can really savor the French countryside - then go onto to Italy or go via Switzerland if you have never been there - stay some days in one of the fabulous Swiss Alps dream spots like the fantastic Jungfrau Region - this is about half-way by train to Italy - then go onto via Milan to the Cinque Terre from there, etc.

We leased a car in Paris for 3 months (89 days actually) after spending a couple of weeks in the UK. We covered a lot of France, Italy & a bit of Croatio & Slovenia. Best thing we've ever done.

If you hit on my name and go to 'Trip Reports' there's an extensive report.

Where are you leaving from?

I never thought I'd read myself write this, but are you sure that you want to spend such long periods of time in big cities? France and Italy are both more than Paris and Rome and especially with a small child, you might want to think about finding a small town or city where you can really get to know the place and the people.

if you are going to spend 3 weeks in Paris and Florence, and 2 weeks in Rome you'll clearly want to be thinking about apartments. Even if you cut down your time in those places, wherever you stay villas/gites and apartments are going to give you more freedom and space, as well as making feeding your little one easier.

can i also ask why 10 days in Dubrovnik? it's a lovely place, but then so are the islands off the Croatian coast - it would be a shame to miss them.

I can't imagine spending ten days in Dubrovnik; the town is not that large.

Hi JarvisFamily,

For Italy, La Spezia is a truly boring town -- although it has the advantage of being flat and uncrowded, and has lots of services. By contrast, any of the le Cinque Terre towns are overrun with tourists, with few everyday services, and so steep having a small child with you is a real pain, especially when it is hot.

If you really want to " experience the culture and dive into the places we visit more deeply than just checking off must-see tourist sites," stay in Sestri Levante instead.

That goes triple for the Amalfi coast, which is a hideous tourist cliche of what Italian life is, and mobbed with foreign visitors -- plus expensive prices to boot. Worse, your small child will have a lot of difficulty on the jam-paced buses that move along the very twisty roads, creating motion sickness in even the stoutest adults. The many many steps in the hot sun are also small-child unfriendly. If you would like to peek at the famous seaside, stay in a town like Maori, or Cetera, Vietri sul Mare, with an occasional boat or bus trip to an expensive boutique tourist town along the Amalfi, or a boat ride to Capri. Or stay in Paestum with a car.

Bari will be like a frying pan, and in general it is a difficult town, with very few holiday apartment rentals. If you are going to put up with such high temperatures, I would suggest Napoli or maybe Cefalu in Sicily. (Do you have family in Bari?)

Presumably you have a reason for choosing the destinations you have, but over the summer with a small child, you will find you need to GET OUT OF THE SUN a lot, and find ways to beat the heat. Were it me, I would be looking at the beaches of Belgium, small towns in the Netherlands, and northern Spain.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2010/jul/16/belgium-summer-beaches-secrets

http://www.101holidays.co.uk/family/northern-spain/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/netherlands+familyholidays

To visit just Dubrovnik would be such a shame. You should consider Split and it's surrounding islands for the lovely beaches, Lake Plitvice (easy trekking awesome views), Istria (countryside villages and vineyard visits possible, coastal towns also in this area) and Zagreb which is a cute little town.

If you would be driving in from Italy, do consider Slovenia too, could get a glimpse of the Julian Alps!

Echoing the rest, you can't spend 3 weeks in France without exploring the countryside!

Of all the 5 Cinque Terre villages I've been to and also La Spezia I'd chose Vernazza if I had to chose one - Monterosso and Rimomaggiore - the two of the five lands bookending the three more isolated villages - both have lots of traffic coming into their peripheries and are generally much busier than the middle three. Vernaza has a lovely old port - Corniglia however is high up in the hills so no sea front at all. I think being seaside is sweeter than hovering high above the sea but perhaps the views are better from up then at sea level?

Yes consider splitting ten days in Dubrovnik - a simply lovely lovely old city and yes taking the scenic coastal road by car or bus or the coastal boats to Split and over to some islands like Hvar - which would also make for a romantic stay.

We found Bol (on Brac Island in Croatia) a fantastically easy place to stay with our 3 year old. We island hopped from Korcula, Hvar and then Bol, and were very sad to leave (went to Split, then on to Istria).

Bol had three playgrounds that we found, all near the water and near places to get "take-away" coffee. There's the famous (and clothes optional) Zlatni-rat beach, but there's a really wonderful coastline with dozens of little coves that are semi-private and perfect for full family afternoons of picnicking and swimming. Best of all, most of the town was walkable.

I remember one evening we ate outside at a neighborhood restaurant with other travelers staying at the same sobe we were. Our daughter fell asleep, and the owner brought over a nice fluffy blanket to wrap her in.

We also went to Cinque Terre and stayed for a week. I would recommend Monterosso with a kid. It's flatter and has a big sandy beach (at least it did before the floods). Your child will have a much easier time finding another kid to play with there.

I echo the recommendations of cutting time from Paris and spending at least a few days in the countryside.

Thank you all very much for such helpful recommendations and insight! We've just booked accommodations for Paris, Florence, and Rome. We're now getting to the coastal towns and Croatia and still have a lot of research to do and your comments are a huge help! Just wanted to touch in with an update of our planning thus far...

We're likely to skip Bari (the reason we wanted to go there was to have a chance to stay in cool resort: http://www.hoteltorrefiore.com/hotel). Maybe another trip we'll do this.

We still need to look into how to see the french country side while keeping our logistics simple.

We chose big cities so we can see museums, churches, etc without cramming them all into a few days which would not be fun for our little guy. But our extended stay should afford us to visit the smaller towns. Haven't figured out what to do about renting a car (curious if there are "flex cars" in Italy similar to what they have in Seattle where we live - you can borrow a care for a single day and then park it back at their lot at night).

As for Croatia, we'll definitely NOT spend all 10 days in Dubrovnik. But don't have that leg of the trip nailed down yet.
Also considering working in:
Bosnia: Mostar 1 night
Montenegro: Kotor 2 nights Budva 2 nights
Trogir, Old Town: 2 nights
Split

We're flying out of London because we have family there and will end our trip with just under a week there.

Then head back home = Seattle!

Thanks All ~ The J Family

I would not spend a week in Monterosso. Spend three nights( two full days) there as it will be crowded and it's all about the hiking; and the balance of the time a little bit north in one of the beach towns such as Levanto or lovely small city Santa Margherita Ligure.
After two weeks in Paris, take a train to Avignon and spend a week in Provence.

>>"(curious if there are "flex cars" in Italy similar to what they have in Seattle where we live - you can borrow a care for a single day and then park it back at their lot at night).<<

No. Doesn't exist in Italy.

But cities like Florence do have bicycles you can rent - these are placed around the city.

Wow, I am envious. Most of what I was going to recommend has already been said so i will address Croatia. The coastline all the way from Split to Dubrovnik is breathtaking (an over-used word I will admit). I would say that Dubrovnik is a must-see, allow a couple of days if you can. There are also some islands off the cost that make great day trips.

You need to plan on days that are not very full. We took our 3-yr old grandson to Italy one year and although it slowed us down (afternoon naps, diaper changes, early bed times) it was still one of our most memorable vactions. We traveled mostly by train which was smooth and easy. Cannot really do that in Croatia, of course so car rental might be best.

>>"But cities like Florence do have bicycles you can rent - these are placed around the city."<<

There is one "bike share" program in Florence with a stand near the train station but it does not rent bikes that are suitable for a family with a very small child. The bikes available are individual clunker bikes without child seats of any description. Nor are there helmets available. You can rent family bikes from bike rental stores with helmets, but in general, biking in the city of Florence is not fun. There is a real scarcity of bike lanes but a lot of motorcycle, auto and bus traffic, and no bike riding is allowed in the pedestrian areas. But it is hardly necessary to bike in Florence anyway because you can walk from one end of town to the other in 15 minutes.

To the Jarvis Family,

I hesitate to add this, but I am wondering if Florence is really the best location for you for a week with a 4 year old. Most people who stay in Florence for a week have a long list of museums they want to visit, none of which are child-friendly, and most of which are usually so jammed with tourists, a small child is really overwhelmed, trapped in a stroller staring at people's legs or just generally crushed.

There is a lot of traffic in Florence, and prices are at least 40 percent higher than they are in nearby Tuscan towns which offer more things for families to do and more space for children to run around without worries about traffic.

I don't know if you are locked into a deposit with your accommodations, but you might consider Montecatini Alta or Pistoia as a place to stay for a week where you would really get to know more of Italy than its tourist draws. You can easily visit Florence from there by train. Or you could take a look at Pisa or Lucca --either of which would allow for a visit to le Cinque Terre -- or Bologna if you prefer a real city. Almost all the attention and energy of Florence is about touristic shopping or museum-going. If you want to feel the rhythm of Italian life, you need to be in places where locals outumber tourists, and the life of the town isn't about focusing on catering to tourists.

There is one "bike share" program in Florence with a stand near the train station but it does not rent bikes that are suitable for a family with a very small child>

yeh the bikes I saw in a stand at a parking lot inside the walls on the western part of town near the Pitti Palace looked rather pathetic - I did notice a few stands around town so I guess you can return them other places besides the main train station area. But that was a few years back and while many cities go forward with that free or cheap bike rental like Paris' ballyhooed Velib' program Florence's may have floundered. Not a great city for the average tourist to ride a bike anyway IMO - everything of interest is just about in walking distance for most anyway.

Almost all the attention and energy of Florence is about touristic shopping or museum-going. If you want to feel the rhythm of Italian life, you need to be in places where locals outumber tourists>

Florence to be sure is also a real city and has places that you can feel the rhytym of Italian life - I walked around Florence one day - literally around the historical town center on boulevards that girdle it and there are many real Italian places - it is only the historical center that is as goldenautumn describes - there are many ordinary neighborhoods and I often stay in one at a B&B run by a couple with kids of their own - the area has the usual parks for kids with kids play things, etc. Whatever you find in Pistoia you can find here and also be very close to things you will want to see - Lucca is one of the most heavily touristed cities in Italy - Pistoia is not and for good reason - it lacks much of the old-world charm many Italian cities have - being a busy loud traffic-plagued city from what I've seen of it.

You can find kid-friendly and real Italian neighborhoods right in Florence - and the B&B I stayed in what really cheap and offered modern facilities, unlimited breakfast, etc.

Pistoia is not and for good reason - it lacks much of the old-world charm many Italian cities have - being a busy loud traffic-plagued city from what I've seen of it.

The core of Pistoia is almost traffic free. I suspect that all of the historical center is a ZTL.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/sets/72157627066754871/show/with/5936373712/

>>"I walked around Florence one day<<"

Gee, what an expert point of view

I realize combatting aggressive ignorance about Italy on Fodor's is a near hopeless task, but hope never dies, especially when you are living it Italy every day.

Here is some online information about Pistoia, with links attached:

"Visiting Pistoia’s old town is like making a journey back in time. In fact, Pistoia, is a city with many amazing facets thanks to its elegance and refined beauty. In fact, the evidence of the city's Roman origin appears immediately upon entering it: an unexpected series of churches, cloisters, palaces and art treasures not only dating back to the past but even to more recent times. Among narrow medieval streets and irregular shaped squares, prestigious palaces and small tower-houses, a surprising city emerges with an innate, discreet charm, perfect for lovers of the quality of slow-paced tourism. Not far from Pistoia, one reaches Pescia, a town that has a lot to offer to those who love art and nature."

http://www.italia.it/en/discover-italy/tuscany/pistoia.html#box_2

"If you are looking for an ideal place to go on holiday, and want to stay somewhere familiar and yet off the beaten path, Pistoia is an exceptional option for staying in the popular and stunning area of Tuscany. Villas in the province of Pistoia can give you the peace and quiet you crave, while keeping you close to some of the beautiful cities in the region.

"Located in the Tuscan region in the eastern part of Italy, the province of Pistoia is a quiet and often overlooked location that boasts the two popular and pretty cities of Pistoia and Pescia; their winding streets and traditional feeling are all just a short distance away from the bustling capital of Florence. While you are in the province, be sure to spend a day exploring the history and buildings of Pistoia and Pescia."

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/pistoia-a-hidden-gem-in-tuscany

Why Visit Pistoia?:

"Pistoia's main square, the Piazza del Duomo, is bounded by some terrific examples of medieval architecture, including the Cathedral of San Zeno and its bell tower and the 14th century Gothic Baptistery of San Giovanni in Corte. Adjacent is the medieval marketplace. The buildings around are still in medieval style with heavy shutters and stone benches.
Pistoia is also noted for its fine cuisine. Plan to spend at least one night in Pistoia--or stay longer and take trips to Florence, Lucca and other nearby Tuscan cities. You can see much of Pistoia in a day trip from Pisa, Lucca or Florence."

http://goeurope.about.com/od/pistoia/p/pistoia-italy.htm

and on and on and on. A simple google search puts the argument to rest by anyone who equates travel with learning.