Robespierre

Will everyone who has used a C1 card in Europe lately please take a moment to run one transaction through the calculator at http://www.xe.com/ccc and post the results here?

It might put an end to the speculation that has filled several gigabits of Fodor's storage lately.

xyz123

...and just what is the question...I was in the UK 2 weeks ago and used the Capital One visa card extensively and indeed I got the interbank rate with nothing added on not even the 1% visa charge for every transaction I did.

Robespierre

That's what I'm talkin' about. How did you verify the rate and (lack of) ISA?

nonnafelice

You don't need to run the transaction through that converter. Capital One prints the rate right on your statement. For example: On Jan 5 I bought 40 euro worth of SNCF tickets. The charge on my Cap One statement read: $48.66 - Currency EUR - Exchange rate 1.21638.

If you want to multiply that out, you will see that there were no extra fees imposed; the 40 euro translate exactly into $48.66 at the rate shown.

Neopolitan

I think what Robespierre was suggesting was to compare to the XE. rate for January 5 which was 1.210048. . . slightly lower than the rate you were given.

tomboy

So, we're talking a rate differential of 0.0059€/$, or 24 cents to complain about?

Neopolitan

My point exactly.

StuDudley

Not this again !!!!!

I believe the rate that xe uses, and the rate nonnafelice shows INCLUDES the 1% that Visa Charges the bank. If you go to the official Visa site (the one where you could sue them for millions, if they mis-represents charges)
http://www.corporate.visa.com/pd/consumer_ex_rates.jsp
you will se that the exchange rate that they charge purchases today is 1.19 (do the math on a purchase of $300). This INCLUDES the charge of 1% that Visa charges the bank. You could go to any newspaper and see if the rate quoted in the paper changed between Jan 5 (nonnafelice's charge date) and today. This rate posted by Visa on their site is a full 1% LOWER than nonnafelice's rate - and (again) the Visa 1.19 includes their 1& charge.

If nonnafelice's rate DID NOT include the Visa 1% - then the rate on the Visa Site would have to be 1% HIGHER than the 1.21638 that her bank posted on her statement.

I would believe the authenticity of the official Visa site, before I would believe what's included/excluded on the XE site. As a reminder, my wife is an employee of Visa, so we know a few things about VISA "standards".

Stu Dudley

Robespierre

http://www.Oanda.com 1.1887
http://www.Visa.com 1.19
http://www.Ecb.int 1.1913
http://www.Xe.com 1.18889

So - how much did you pay for 100€ today?

xyz123

The problem you have to understand is the rate is constantly changing perhaps in the fourth or fith decimal place so at 10 Am a charge entering the system might enter it at $1.190324 to one euro and an hour later the rate may be $1.190412 and these changes go on constantly...all you can get off the web sites is either the closing rate for the day or the average rate for the day and they can, as we just said, differ in the fourth or fifth decimal place.

I signed up with xe for a service that e mails me once a day the exchange rates and according to what I received several hours ago, today the euro closed at 1.1880160364

StuDudley

>>So - how much did you pay for 100€ today?>>

The same thing everyone else paid - The "exchange rate" plus 1%.

Visa & XE are the same - and since Visa's posted rate that it charges the bank/issuer INCLUDES the added 1% in the 1.19, this means XE also includes the 1% when they establish their "base" rate they use to tell you if the Bank is adding any fees. It seems then that the C1 card does not add anything (just like my Morgan Stanley card), but C1 does NOT back out the Visa 1%.

Time for my second glass of wine and then dinner - it's getting late here on the west coast (wife just got home from Visa - she worked late to adjust your rate)

Stu Dudley

Robespierre

By the way - the European Central Bank's Reference Rate for January 5 was 1.2088.

The 1.21638 rate nonnafelice paid is .0063% more than that, so it's really hard to tell whether there's an extra percent in there or not.

That's why I'd like to see more data and less (ahem) speculation.

StuDudley

>>The problem you have to understand is the rate is constantly changing perhaps in the fourth or fith decimal place so at 10 Am a charge entering the system might enter it at $1.190324 to one euro and an hour later the rate may be $1.190412 and these changes go on constantly.<<

That's true for traders. However, when determining the rate Visa will charge banks for transactions, Visa freezes the rate for the entire day. They are traders themselves, and can often get better rates than those posted in XE, or in financial journals.

Stu Dudley

xyz123

Stu..

I wouldn't stake a big time bet on it but I seem to remember charges made on the same day that cleared the system on the same day with slightly different rates. I still think the transaction occurs at whatever the rate is at the instant the transaction enters the international system, not that it matters all that much.

xyz123

I suppose you're right Stu as your wife knows better than I do...

Interestly enough on Saturday I charged a return ticket on Eurostar on my capital one account and the £47 charge cleared on the Capital One statement as $82.52....dividing shows a rate of $1.755744681 approximately...according to oanda.com which has a daily rate I can access on Sunday March 5 they're showing sterling at $1.7551 the next day it had climbed to $1.7552 it was $1.7535...damn that $0.004 is really killing me...and to think if I had waited till today, sterling has dropped to $1.7357...damn if only I had known! (BTW I hope you guys understand I'm kidding...but it's pretty evident that Capital One is very close to the interbank rate as listed wherever and in my experience other credit cards such as USAA generally are about 1% higher).

Woody

I posted the following on another thread, which I am topping.

* * *

Author: Woody
Date: 02/21/2006, 12:55 pm

The 2/19/06 NY Times article cited above states:

"Not only does Capital One not charge an additional foreign exchange fee, but it also does not even pass along the 1 percent currency conversion charge that Visa and MasterCard charge for all purchases made abroad."

I was just about to apply online for a VISA card, when I called Capital One at 1-800-955-7070. The customer service representative told me that for foreign purchases, the cardholder is charged 1 percent by VISA, but that Capital One does not charge any additonal fee. This seems to conflict with the NY Times article.

My Questions: Is it still worth going with Capital One? Is there a bank that adds zero percent to foreign purchases?

Woody

luveurop

I've used my Capital One visa for my last few trips to Paris.

If they added on 1% I couldn't find it.

FWIW I am also a math teacher if that ups my creds.

Keith

luveurop, _If_ it is built into the exchange rate it wouldn't necessarily show as a separate fee.

My Merrick Bank credit card that admits to passing along just the 1% doesn't show the the fee on the statement.

Keith

SAnParis

As an aside, anytime I have ever used a credit card multiple times in a day, the exchange rate has been different on every transaction I have done. I believe it does flucuate, probably depending on the bank that holds the card, & yes, I am a banker at one of the 5 largest banks in the country. VISA may not be changing the rate, but the banks probably are.

Robespierre

Visa's posted rate is within a few thousandths of a dollar of that found at the European Central Bank. See for yourself:

http://www.corporate.visa.com/pd/con...R&rate=0.0

http://www.ecb.int/stats/exchange/eu.../index.en.html

Visa's ISA does not appear to be built into the rate they apply to foreign currency transactions.