Usually there is much more room in an apartment.. Common area, etc. I much prefer that to a cramped hotel room.

Can you tell us which hotels and apartments you have been comparing?

The hotels in Rome are: Fellini, Hotel Del Corso and Condotti Palace unless we decide to use most of our starwood points and book the excelsior. Apartments are in VRBO and I've contacted around 10 of them - we need one of the bedrooms to have twin beds - our children are in their 20's and sharing a double bed won't fly. I've been trying to stay in the Trevi or Spanish Steps area. We stayed at the Excelsior on our first trip to Rome 10 years ago...obviously loved it but that was then and this is now.

Yes, the ability to spread out and put one's feet up is generally lacking in the hotels I can afford, and one doesn't know the neighborhood and its ways as well if one in not coping with bakers, "supermarkets", street markets, fishmongers, and so forth. These daily tasks make a neighborhood ones own.

It is not civilized to have to get dressed before drinking coffee in the morning. One should have two or three cups before one contemplates showering and dressing. Not possible unless you have room service, and I would rather spend the money in other ways.

As to getting stuck with all the preparation and cooking, it isn't necessary because really good prepared foods are available in traiteurs (cooked food shops) in Paris or at the "urban" versions of supermarkets in the UK. We got, for example, a stuffed guinea fowl ready to pop in the oven at whatever the supermarket is in Covent Garden, maybe Tesco. Gourmet food, no work, don't even have to wash the pan!

I am a fairly serious foodie, but even I after a few days am ready to take a break from restaurant fare and its excess salt and fat, though it is only to be able to do it again soon!

In an apartment most often you don't have the fall-back of help from the front desk if you need it. You're on your own.

Apartment plusses: Space, cooking, appliances. Often includes free phone calls or internet access.

Hotel plusses: Front desk staff to handle problems, give advice (sometimes a minus), make reservations in a foreign language, call a cab, unlock room with key inside, etc, and provide immediate action on room and amenitiy problems, including a new room or even another hotel if all else fails. Takes credit cards. Often allows last minute change in plans.

Aparment minuses: Internet pictures and real life may not match. In case of problems with the apartment, you may be on your own or greatly inconvenienced. Apartment may be illegal for short term rental. Payment arrangements and security deposit may be a hassle. Usually no one from management on site. Hard to change your plans. Fraud risk.

Hotel rooms will be small (often barely larger than the bed). A two-bedroom apt could well be twice as large as 2 hotel rooms.

To get similar space you would need to price a one-bedroom suite plus a separate bedroom. Also you have the option of eating in expensive breakfasts - as well as snacks - and saving additional money that way.

But - you don;t have a concierge/porter to deal with luggage and provide local advice/organize tours, etc.

I gather what you're saying is that you expected apartments to be cheaper? OK, then here are the differences:

If you break it down to how much you're paying per sq. ft/meter, the apartment is usually a better deal.

The apartment usually provides more privacy and a better stretch-out factor.

Want to eat breakfast in your undies? They tend to frown on that in hotel dining rooms and restaurants.

Want to get together for a drink or glass of wine at the end of the day and kick your shoes off? You'll pay a premium for that at the hotel bar (plus you'll probably have to keep your shoes on).

BTW, disputing the "on your own" comment: Yes, hotels have front-desk people and concierges who can help you with tours, transportation, etc. However, in just about every apt. I've stayed in, the owner/manager was quite helpful with info of that type and with any problems we had with the accommodations. Yes, you can get an uncaring owner; just as you can get an uncaring staff at a hotel.

I just think you just are probably mistaken in expecting apartments to be cheaper, they aren't in my experience. Why should they be, you have more space and a kitchen, etc. I think they are usually only cheaper if you go pretty low end on the apartments and higher end on the hotels. Also, 2 BR apts are not as common as studios or 1 BR apts, so you are getting more expensive properties to begin with.

<However, in just about every apt. I've stayed in, the owner/manager was quite helpful with info of that type and with any problems we had with the accommodations.>

Not only for "problems". The front desk staff can make a phone call for a restaurant reservation if you don't speak the local language, give you free maps and tourist brochures, tell you where the closest laundry matt is, etc. etc.

Apartments usually don't have daily maids service. You may need to take out your own trash, etc.

A kitchen is great to have, especially with teens, even if you don't plan any cooking. You can save a fortune on beverages alone. "Included breakfast" requires getting dressed and being there before end of service, so no sleeping in.

Personally, I enjoy seating other than beds, a dining table/chairs, more storage space, and more space in general. An apartment is just more pleasant than a cramped hotel room

You usually have to wait in line for the front desk or the concierge to dispense recommendations and directions, make dinner reservations for you, etc. Nowadays, all that can be done yourself (usually online).

If the inference is that apartments should be cheaper, then I agreed during the early stages of our Rome apartment research. After further digging it was clear that the current value of some of those apartments was over e1.5m. Even if they achieved 100% occupancy they would return under 3%.

We also noticed that some of the apartments that had been owned for many years were cheaper and busier. Possibly because the owners were debt free.

I book apartments all the time in Rome and they are almost always cheaper than hotel rooms. I can find some b&bs that are cheaper, but on a per night basis, I am saving money by staying in an apartment. This is my newest favorite agency:

http://www.romeloft.com/

To get the right bed arrangements, try looking for an apartment that sleeps 6 instead of 4.

I travel off season (winter) and tend to book relatively last minute, and always book for a week or more, which may affect my ability to find lower rates.

If you don't need a kitchen, try looking at b&bs with shared baths. Some of the smaller b&bs only have 3 guest rooms and 2 bathrooms -- and that's really fine for your needs, and the rooms tend to be very inexpensive per person.

This website is something of a pain to use if you don't know Rome, but it has bargains and you can usually track down reviews.

http://www.b-b.rm.it/

Booking.com is always a great resource, and now has apartments as well.

Don't get me wrong, I love (and do) rent apartments. But only in cities I have visited before and know already. I'd never do it myself on a 1st trip.

cmeyer54,

One more piece of info:

I don't think you are going to get any correct pricing on apartments if you are looking book one for December 2013 in Rome. That's much too far in advance. Also, I once planned a trip to go to Rome right after Christmas, and when I saw that if I went after Jan 7 the cost of some apartments dropped $100 per night, I changed my plans and went after Jan 7. Christmas holidays are "high season" for apartment rentals. That is typically when families travel together. Law of supply and demand.

aaagh - PLEASE, PLEASE post the links to these places. only then can we try to answer your questions.

<<Don't get me wrong, I love (and do) rent apartments. But only in cities I have visited before and know already. I'd never do it myself on a 1st trip.>>

we stayed in Rome, [twice] Florence and Venice in apartments with our kids, and we'd only ever visited Venice before. if we'd just been a couple we might not have done thing, but with the family in tow it made so much difference.

I like apartment rental if it is convenient. Upon arrival after a long international flight I don't want to chase around trying to find the key in a foreign city. Walking next door to pick up a key would be a different story.

My sis and her family rented a place in Spain and had a couple of problems. They found that they couldn't cook anything at the same time as heating the apartment or the electric fuses would blow. In the winter heat was a necessity. Problems with figuring out the tv as instructions were not included. It created some frustration but luckily the management was able to get it repaired- on Christmas Eve day.

On the other hand, apartments are almost always larger than a hotel room. The extra space with adult travelers and privacy is really nice. And not having to adhere to breakfast hours at a hotel. Some mornings you might want to sleep in and have a cup of tea in bed or take a late night glass of wine and cheese in your apartment.

Upon arrival after a long international flight I don't want to chase around trying to find the key in a foreign city. Walking next door to pick up a key would be a different story. >>

the only time we had a problem with this was in the US. We arrived on a flight from the UK at about 4pm, and had an hour's drive to our destination, and directions to the office where we were supposed to pick up the key, or so we thought. however, if took us 2 hours to get there, we couldn't find it, and when we did, it was shut. no end of calls later, no joy.

we were all getting teasy and it was getting dark so in the end we checked into a Howard Johnson, and spend the night there.

in the morning, it turned out that they'd given us the wrong address for the office, and with some bad grace they refunded out $100 for our wasted night. the rest of the holiday was fine.

We had a great holiday with the family in December - stayed in apartments on our first visits to London, Paris and Rome. All were great, relaxing and brilliantly placed - more relaxing than our briefer stays in hotel rooms in Venice and Florence.

Will post details in a moment!

As per previous post, our accommodation from trip in December 2012:

Almost finalised arrangements for our three weeks in Europe - leaving late next week.

Thought some of you might be interested in the accomodation we have chosen.

Self, wife and three kids - Daughters 20 & 18 and son 16. Three weeks of such togetherness will either bring us close as a family, or ensure it is the last holiday we ever take together!
It's going to be a busy time, but we are all so excited that it is nearly here - our daughters have both finished end of year exams in the last two days, and our son finishes his this week.

7 nights
http://www.thelondonagent.com/Super-Nice-Clerkenwell-Home-2.html

5 nights
http://www.vacationinparis.com/apts/id_18.htm

overnight
Paris - Venice Night train 6 berth couchette (fully booked all 6 berths)
https://www.thello.com/destinations/Horaires/index.html

2 nights
http://www.hotelmarconi.it/hotel_marconi_in_venice-en.htm

3 nights
http://www.hotelscoti.com/index.html

4 nights
http://www.rentalinrome.com/campodefiori/monserratohistoricalapartment

All travel between locations by train:
Eurostar London - Paris
Trenitalia high speed services Venice - Florence and Florence - Rome

We'll fly from Rome to London on a cheapo airline. I looked at the train and its a full day+ which could either be relaxing or boring, depending on how its viewed. By my calculations, an apartment is about $60/day more expensive than two hotel rooms so the decision becomes...is that amount going to be saved by eating breakfast in each day, potentially doing prepared take out from local deli's and worth having the extra space, wifi and laundry available? My guess is that, yes, it will be worth the extra money.

cmeyer, forgive me, but i don't know how we can help you make that decision unless you post the links to the apartments and hotels you are considering.

One more opinion and experience: for two, we like apartments because in our price range, we get much more for our money in Rome than we could in a similarly priced hotel.

For four, I want two bathrooms. If you can afford two hotel rooms, why not? The bathrooms would make all the difference to me.

Finally, the extra one hundred dollars often makes a big difference to me. If I stay for a week, it could mean the difference in where I eat, when I can return, etc. For some of us, a hundred a night can make a huge difference.

Oh I said "finally" but I lied. For 4 people, I would really want two bathrooms no matter how I had to get them.

We just spent 10 days in a Paris apt with daughters 21 and 22 yr old, frequent hair washers, and then 10 days in London hotels. I liked them both.

Hotel pluses: Clean towels! Clean sheets! and we all enjoyed the conviviality of London hotel breakfasts and lounge.

I agree with Tuscanlifeedit that if you have found hotels that meet your needs at a less expensive rate than apartments, it makes sense to book the hotels.

Must admit that when not traveling alone we ALWAYS get separate rooms - even for DDs - since they were 11 and 14. I am not sharing a bath with 2 tween/teen girls for ANY amount of money.

We do not do apartments since we prefer full service: breakfast in bed, rooms service, nice bar in the hotel and concierge. But if money were a big issue we might get an apartment.

We have considered renting a villa (Riviera or Costa del Sol) with a group of 4 or 6 - but somehow the timing never works out.

@annhig - this was a general question. 2 hotel rooms are running around $1500-1600 for 7 nights; a 2 bedroom apartment is running around $1900-2000 for 7 nights. I was just wondering if that was the norm.

Can't speak to experience in Rome, but in London we have enjoyed both hotels and apartments. The one thing I do miss in an apartment is the hotel fitness center, but there are public gyms (at an additional cost.) If the pivotal issue is cost - yes, it is possible to offset $60/day with four people. Hotel breakfasts alone can get expensive.

If the deciding factor is comfort - not so cut and dry. The additional space and acceptability of jammies for pre-ministration morning coffee and evening lounging are, IMO, priceless. Having to throw my own towels in the washing machine is no big deal. Two bathrooms if traveling with more than just the two of us is nice but we have survived with just one, even when accompanied by a Sephora addict. With four people, not sure I have not become too spoiled to tolerate. (Then again, I grew up in a house with 10 people and one bathroom. See: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/margaretme137226.html)

You found a hotel in London where you can get 14 room nights (2 rooms x 7 nights) for $1500??? Are you sure that is not quoted pounds? And is it a place you would want to stay?

>>You found a hotel in London where you can get 14 room nights (2 rooms x 7 nights) for $1500??? Are you sure that is not quoted pounds? And is it a place you would want to stay?

I was thinking the same thing. WHERE?!

Or is that per room?

We stayed in this apt in Rome: http://www.sleepinitaly.com/rome/campo-dei-fiori/apartment-balestrari

It is exactly as pictured. Two twins in one room and a queen in the other. Right off of Campo Dei Fiori. Loved it. Would definitely stay there again.

Looks like it is a bit lower than you quoted above.

Another consideration is that you can fix something to eat when you would like to. While many people enjoy eating dinner at 7:30 or 8:00 pm, if you would like to eat earlier, it's hard to find a restaurant in Rome open before then. For a short stay in a city, say less than a week, you might want to go out for dinner every night

But for a longer stay, I like the option of being able to stay in and fix something simple, especially since the markets have the most amazing fruits and vegetables and you can find such excellent deli meats, cheeses, breads, and wines or other beverages.

In my experience Rome apartments are very expensive over the holidays. I am not a hotel person; I always feel less bothered and more independent in an apartment (just my personal preference). So I choose apartments whenever I'm staying longer than four nights someplace--but not because it's less expensive!

We stayed here for the holidays several years ago. Plenty of room and a bit shabby chic/tatty but certainly not inexpensive:

http://www.bestrentalinrome.com/bramante/bramante.htm

I've also stayed here. Less expensive and with an elevator but didn't love it. No washer/dryer.

http://www.vrbo.com/283439

Anyway, neither of these places are near the Spanish Steps. I think there's a fairly inexpensive 2-bd from realrome.com in that area. You might contact them if you decide to go the apartment route.

Oh, I'm sorry. I see that the Accetti Palace apartment is no longer available on vrbo. Looks like you can still rent it via flip key or rentalinrome.com.

And second sorry. I think the realrome.com apartment I was thinking of is a 1-bd.

Have never rented in London!

@annhig - this was a general question. 2 hotel rooms are running around $1500-1600 for 7 nights; a 2 bedroom apartment is running around $1900-2000 for 7 nights. I was just wondering if that was the norm.>>

no, not the norm at all, hence all the curfuffle above.

I'm not clear about why you are so reluctant to post the links to these places - there may be a perfectly reasonable explanation for this discrepancy, but without the links we can't tell what it is. worst case would normally be that the 2 options break even, but you get so much space and freedom with an apartment, plus the option to eat in etc. that it's usually the better option.

we're not trying to pry, but without knowing which hotel rooms and apartments you are comparing, it's impossible to help much further.

For heaven's sake - I looked at Venere, put in 3* and rooms between 150 and 200/night. There is no reluctance to post the names but if you insist: in rome - fellini, Hotel Del Corso, Condotti Palace. in London - Pasha, West Cromwell and St Georges.

yes, but what sorts of rooms and with which apartments were you comparing them?

and i may have missed it, but which time of year are we dealing with?

links aren't difficult and you must have used them to check the prices.

here's one to start you off:

http://www.fellinibnb.com

now i can see that it's a B&B near the Trevi, offering double rooms with ensuite bath for between €120-€200 per night - here are the prices:

http://www.fellinibnb.com/gue.asp [NB, I've only looked at the en suite option as I think that this is closest to what you get with an apartment. they have rooms with shared bathrooms and external private bath that are cheaper -which could account for the price differential you are finding].

now, if you can show us the equivalent apartment you are looking at, we MIGHT be able to answer your question.

Here are your London (Venere) hotel links, since it seems maybe you do not know how to post links:


http://www.venere.com/inns/london/st-georges-hotel/

http://www.venere.com/hotels/london/hotel-pasha/

http://www.venere.com/hotels/london/west-cromwell-hotel/


We still don't know what apartments you have looked at - can you tell us? It's really hard to help you if we don't have all of the info, sorry

This was a general question: are apartments generally more expensive than 2 hotel rooms. The answer appears to be Yes - but you get more space, the ability to cook or have cocktails in your own space but have no gym, housekeeping or other hotel like amenities. Regardless of the property in question, these are the constants. Deciding whether or not those trade-offs are worth the extra expense can be made if the property is 100e/night or 1000e/night

The links are important because the apartment may be smack dab in city centre, close to all sites, and be luxury grade while the hotels might be on the outskirts of town and budget grade...

"This was a general question: are apartments generally more expensive than 2 hotel rooms. The answer appears to be Yes -"

We are working in a vacuum here since you don't give us links to the flats . . . But no, IME apartments are NOT more expensive than two hotel rooms of the same quality

There are hotels at every price range and there are apartments at every price range. But IME (Probably 40+ flat/cottage rentals in the last 20 years) A really posh hotel will cost more than a really posh flat. And at the low end - while a hotel may sometimes be a little cheaper - low end hotels can be REALLY small and basic while low end flats have more space/comfort.

For stays of less than 4 days I usually stay in hotels/B&Bs, but for more than that I want the extra space/comfort of arental.

Exactly right, jamikins. In my experience, an apartment in a comparable location, of comparable size and grade will invariably be less expensive than a similar hotel. I would never stay in a hotel with a shared bath, and I usually only look at 3 stars or more, so an apartment usually works out better for me. But that's just my experience.

There are simply too many variable to generalize sometimes. For example, last year we rented an apartment in Covent Garden in London because

we wanted to stay in that part of the city

The thing was on the 4th floor and there was no lift.

It had somewhat more room than a hotel room but, unfortunately, we had some difficulties with the amenities which I will not go into. We would rent an apartment again but not THAT one.

The "advantages" of the hotel in Covent Garden we usually use:

somebody ELSE cleans the room every day and changes the towels, etc.

the room is MUCH more luxurious than this apartment will ever be

there was a lift

the bedroom (where we usually spend a large part of the day/night) was a lot BIGGER than the one in the apartment

So, a lot of factors vary including costs which in our case were considerably lower for that apartment than they would have been in the hotel.

Everybody has their opinions but I am unwilling to say that an apartment is ALWAYS better than a hotel room and vice versa.

>>>We are working in a vacuum here since you don't give us links to the flats . . . But no, IME apartments are NOT more expensive than two hotel rooms of the same quality

Exactly

Hi cmeyer,

In looking on venere.com, did you do the search you described for certain dates, or just in general?

Hotels on venere.com the prices are often listed as "starting from" --- meaning, the hotel is stating its lowest per night price in low season, and some hotels will list a per-person price and others will list a room price. So if you just put in a budget and no specific dates or how many you are, the price you see could be misleading.

But if you check for your specific dates and how many people you are, you might get a different figure. For next Christmas, venere.com may tell you "no availablity" because they are not set up to show availabitity (and prices) that far in advance. Use Easter dates instead (Mar 31 this year) to get a picture of holiday rates.

oops, it's December - hidden in the first two lines of the enquiry.

I'm glad it's not just me who's getting a bit frustrated.

Somewhere way up above I listed the apartments that we stayed in in December 2012 in London & Rome - both 2 br with single beds in 2nd broom (and blow up or sofa bed for a 5th or 5 & 6.

Both of these were brilliantly placed and great apartments.

I budgeted carefully, and did lots of research.

The prices were far better than I would have needed to pay for 2 hotel rooms of comparable standard in comparable locations.

In fact I even looked at hostel dorm beds in some of the locations we went to, and the apartments were very similar in total to what it would have cost to get 5 dorms beds (some with shared bathrooms)in locations that were not as "good" for us.

We only used hotels for quick visits to Venice & Florence - big breakfast included in Venice was lovely, but we certainly noticed moving back into rooms with not much more than beds to sit on.

bendigo - I think that the answer to the OP's question is that s/he is not comparing apples with apples, more apples with pears.

All the research you did obviously paid off.