Times have changed

To quote www.seat61.com

"You can still travel from London to Paris by train and ferry if you want.

It takes 9 hours and is no longer particularly convenient as you have to make your own way by bus, taxi or on foot between Dover Priory station and the Eastern Docks in Dover, and between Calais ferry terminal and Calais Ville station in Calais.

The original train/ferry interchange stations at Dover Western Docks and Calais Maritime closed in the 1990s when Eurostar started.

London to Paris by train & ferry is also likely to cost more than a cheap Eurostar ticket booked in advance. However, train & ferry can be cheaper if you need to travel at short notice when all the cheap Eurostar fares are sold out, and of course you get to see the White Cliffs of Dover on the way… but you'll need to buy separate train and ferry tickets."

Travel by Eurostar - it's called progress.

www.eurostar.com for Chunnel train tickets and yes the early bird doth get the proverbial worm - but for the expereince - like sofarsogood says it typically costs a ton more by train/bus to Dover and feery then train to Paris - though you could score some cheap Calis-Ville few-mile transfer from docks) to Paris at www.voyages-sncf.com and make it competitive price-wise if you can't get a cheap fare on the Chunnel trains.

Dover itself can be an interesting place to stay - you can see the white cliffs on the other side of the Channel and you can climb on the famed White Cliffs of Dover - a path leading up just by the Eastern Docks ferry terminal - and Dover Castle is amazing - one of the finest in England. Stay the nigh - break up the long trip then take the ferry to Calais and train to paris, after scoring a deep discount ticket on that route.

You could hit Canterbury and its famous cathedral en route to Dover, by train easily done.

I think I'm right in saying that ONLY P&O now allow foot passengers, and the process is almost deliberately designed to discourage them.

You have to be bussed from the terminal at Dover to the ferry (after getting the bus from the station). And there's no regular connecting bus at Calais between the ferry and the town centre station: it's usually taxi or walk.

Most outlined at http://www.seat61.com/London-Paris-ferry.htm#.UPrSHCc00oI - but the Man in Seat 61's enthusiasm for trains sometimes overcomes his normal objectivity. His account of the process is, compared to the grubby and squalid reality, somewhat economical with the grisliness of this route.

You can sometimes get an Orient Express service to Paris, which is much the same horrible mixture, but in a posh bit of the ship, vintage trains, a bit less bussing, a lot of champagne and a snip at about ten times the price of the proper train.

I have only terrible memories of taking the ferry across the Channel. I think those days are well past us, and for good reason. Take the Eurostar. And no one I know has used the appellation Chunnel for more than a decade.

Definitely take the Eurostar! It's only a couple hours city centre to city centre. Book at www.eurostar.com as soon as your dates become available for the cheapest seats.

Eurostar it is then. Thank you all for your help.

And no one I know has used the appellation Chunnel for more than a decade.>

Well most Americans do use the term Chunnel and you being a habitual user of Fodor's for years now I would think had seen numerous - numerous posts from Americans that have used the word Chunnel - the usual word Americans use for the Channel Tunnel, a word coined by the way in the British press I understand.

St Cirq - you just are not paying attention if you have not heard the word Chunnel used in at least ten years - a quick Google brings this and note that Wiki says:

<The Chunnel is actually the English nickname for The Channel Tunnel.>

RailEurope, which sells Eurostar tickets to Americans, uses the word Chunnel like so:

Chunnel Train Tickets - London to Paris. See Prices.
www.raileurope.com/Chunnel
Rail Europe

Channel Tunnel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_TunnelThe Channel Tunnel (French: Le tunnel sous la Manche; also referred to as the Chunnel) is a 50.5-kilometre (31.4 mi) undersea rail tunnel linking Folkestone, ...

and there is a firm called Chunnel.com!

Chunnel Train: London to Paris by Train, Ferry & More - Chunnel ...
www.chunnel.com/Book tickets on the Chunnel train to travel from London to Paris. Get information on how to swim across the English Channel, or travel by ferry all with ...

The Chunnel
library.thinkquest.org/04oct/00450/chunnel.htmThe Chunnel is actually the English nickname for The Channel Tunnel. In French, it is called le tunnel sous la Manche. It is a rail tunnel beneath the English ...
Riding the Chunnel from London to Paris HD - YouTube
► 16:59► 16:59
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KifmXyPl_4o

So you have heard the word now from many popular sources - Chunnel is the de facto American name for Eurostar trains going thru the Channel Tunnel.

"American name for Eurostar trains going thru the Channel Tunnel."

Exactly..........It was originally coined by the tabloid "comics" (the Sun/Star etc), a very good reason not to use the word (it only seems to be Americans and you in particular Pal that do).

Pal is the ONLY person I've heard use the word in at least a decade.

< - a quick Google brings this and note that Wiki says

<The Chunnel is actually the English nickname for The Channel >

Wiki. Conclusive.

Yep - have seen Chunnel a lot - tons - on here . . . 90% of them by PQ himself.

I personally know no (other) Americans (at least none w/any sense) who use the term.

But since he is apparently a feeble/elderly Fodorgarch we should cut him some slack.

And, of course, it is not the name in common usage in England (or even Great Britain), but what does that matter.

If an American thinks it is so., it must be so.

"<The Chunnel is actually the English nickname for The Channel"

One of the many times that "Wiki" is incorrect, as said, the comics have used it but I don't know anyone (or even heard anyone) who uses it.

The term Chunnel may have been coined by tabloids here in the UK in the 1980s, but it has fallen out of use as Eurostar has become the universally-known brand name.

We Brits now always use the term 'Eurostar' for the London to Paris train service, we no longer think of it purely in terms of the tunnel that forms just 20 minutes of the 2.5 hour journey.

In the US, the term Chunnel seems to have lingered on, possibly because awareness of the brand name Eurostar isn't universal there. Companies like Rail Europe then have to react to the de facto use of the term Chunnel and the likelihood that this word will be used as a Google search term.

I gather there's a parallel where UK travellers come to New York asking to see 'ground zero' when locals no longer use that phrase. No doubt there are other examples!

I've taken the ferry Dover-Calais several times in the past year or so, most recently last September. It was on P&O and it was a brand new ship, it was very nice, had breakfast at Langans Brasserie and looked around the shops. However this was not as a foot passenger, I would not recommend being a foot passenger because of the transfer to Eastern Docks at Dover and the transfer at Calais docks.

The ferry to France is still popular, esp if Eurotunnel happens to be expensive for your particular trip.

And no one I know has used the appellation Chunnel for more than a decade.>>

well I use it, but normally in referring to the car-train option; in referring to the passenger train service I'd say Eurostar.

as a 56 year old Brit, do i count?

the Eurostar takes bookings 90 days in advance of date of travel and the sooner you book, the cheaper it is.

the only time I would think about the ferry is if there was something I was desperate to see in northern France or Kent, and even then, having thought about it, I'd use the "chunnel".

the only time I would think about the ferry is if there was something I was desperate to see in northern France or Kent, and even then, having thought about it, I'd use the "chunnel".>>

oh, and to make it clear, that's if I had a car.

The car service used to be called Le Shuttle as far as I remember, now it's called Eurotunnel. And the ferry can be significantly cheaper however we find that we end up spending money in the shops and restaurants onboard. We normally just book the cheapest, sometimes its Eurotunnel, sometimes not.

Odin - that's a reasonable exercise, if you've got a car, as we used to have when we were doing day trips from our then home in Kent to northern France, where we spent several happy wedding anniversary and birthday lunches having a meal that was twice as good as we could have got in England for half the price. [those were the days!]

i suspect that the OP is talking about being foot passengers.

They are, and I don't recommend taking the ferry as a foot passenger, as I said in my first post. Eurostar is definitely the way to go, esp in business class.

But the ferries have improved, for those who remember the awful crossing of years ago.

Just want to say that I've taken the ferry a couple times in the past and did not like it at all, so I think you are romanticizing it. What's to like, anyway? It's a long trip on a boat. There isn't any way they can improve that, I don't know what you think they can improve. The time is the time it takes, and the water is still there. I've taken many ferries in many places, they are what they are. There's nothing exciting about looking out at the water nor if it is rough, that isn't pleasant. And of course in bad weather, you have to stay inside, anyway (and I wouldn't want to take ferries in bad weather).

I did take the hovercraft in former years, also, and that was better because it at least cut the time down a lot.

<The Chunnel is actually the English nickname for The Channel"

One of the many times that "Wiki" is incorrect>

yes it should have said is the American English nickname for The Channel Tunnel, not the Channel.

And since most posters here are American I will continue to use the word for Channel Tunnel most familiar with them - Chunnel and Man in Seat 61 also says this is true - explaining why RailEurope would use the word Chunnel because that is what Americans Googling will most likely put in.

Chunnel is the word Americans most likely use for the Channel Tunnel, like it or no.

and as for ferries being rough - that was never my experience except on a few locations in taking a much longer ferry ride - Dover to Zeebrugge several times a year for years - unlikely to be rough and in Dover to Calais case a much shorter ride.

Hydrofoils or their newer supplant catamarans or whatever they call them can be more rough IME than the heavy car ferries.

"What's to like, anyway?"

The view of the White Cliffs as you approach England from France. For most of the past 500 years, the world's most important, and visually stunning, frontier between accountable government and free thought on the one side, and unaccountable tyranny on the other.

If any of us were as ignorantly offensive about that ugly Statue of Liberty, we'd get the American ranters round our necks for years.

But it's obviously just fine for the Yanks to denigrate a symbol people have given their lives to defend.

I've done the road/sea from London to Paris (or Amsterdam or Brussels) a few times the last couple of years albeit on a tour which to a degree cuts down on any hassles in transferring...the tour leaves London travels to Dover you walk onto the ferry as a foot passenger (they handle baggage), have a pleasant hour and a half crossing (I usually have breakfast or lunch) arrive in Calais get on the coach and off to wherever. Is it unpleasant? No. London to Paris is 9 hours. You can also take Eurobus I believe although I never have.

However, it is nowhere, repeat nowhere, as comfortable as getting on the train at St. Pancras and 2 hours and 15 minutes later stepping off the train at Gare du nord. The train is absolutely comfortable even when travelling at 300 km./hr even in second class. Fares purchased in advance are very reasonable and easy to purchase on line. Assuming you are from the USA, you can compare fares on the rail Europe web site and on the Eurostar web site, although when going via the Eurosdtar website, on the first screen put in your are in the UK not the USA as in the past (this may have changed recently) they put a cookie into your computer directing you, even if you try to access eurostar.com, into the Rail Europe web site which may or may not have the best fares.

flanner - I don't think anyone was denigrating anything, and come to that, lots of yanks gave their lives too. if Christina doesn't like ferries that's ok, I'm not that fond of them either, but will admit that they can be quite fun in nice weather.

but the main point is that for the OP the rail/ferry route is quite impractical and there is a much better option.

xyz - you're right about them re-directing you to rail-europe if you put anything other than UK or France in the box. if you go onto SNCF, they'll redirect you if you put in anything but France. I didn't bother to compare prices but i would not expect the best prices to be on rail-europe.

I didn't bother to compare prices but i would not expect the best prices to be on rail-europe.>

You may be surprised as lately RE, owned by the French Railways, SNCF with a minority chunk owned by the Swiss Federal Railways, has began at times matching the discounted tickets at www.voyages-sncf.com - that said it seems to be pretty easy to book thru sncf.com so whatever is cheaper - RailEurope would charge a mailing fee for orders under $400 I believe so that is a factor but they are IME more and more reflecting prices on www.voyages-sncf.com.

What's to like, anyway? It's a long trip on a boat.>

I agree with flanneruk - seeing the Cliffs of Dover from the water is so so nostalgic - thinking of how thru the ages mariners and passengers have passed by this iconic cliff when return to Britain and the associations with WW2 -'the White Cliffs of Dover'

To experience crossing the Channel by boat is a tremendous experience for me and always will be.

it may match, pal, but does it ever better them?

if not, what's the point?

it may match, pal, but does it ever better them?

if not, what's the point?>

The point is that many people have posted frustrations with using sncf.com to book tickets - not always that easy and folks may spend literally hours... some want to take the easy way out and if the price is in the ballpark why not - that is the point. And dealing with an entity in your home country, as you a barrister may understand is always better than dealing with an entity in a foreign country in case problems do pop or or refunds come into play, etc.

Best is not always judged by price along for some folks anyway.

"And since most posters here are American I will continue to use the word for Channel Tunnel most familiar with them - Chunnel"

That makes sense how? You're American and use Chunnel. I'm American and use Eurostar. So? As you say, the majority of Fodors posters are American, and MOST of them use 'Eurostar'.

"as for ferries being rough - that was never my experience"

Lucky for you. My one ferry crossing of the Channel, way back in 1970, it was so rough the ferry went round in circles outside Dover for hours waiting to enter. That's how I learned I'm not subject to motion sickness, as so many other passengers were throwing up. I quickly get bored on boats, so am grateful for the train.

I've never had any problems on the Eurostar web sote, you can print your tickets at home. The only criticism is they surcharge credit card purchases and debit card purchases but les less than a credit card.

Rail Europe in general, charges a processing fee and you're dependent on UPS....much prefer to simply print my own tickets and have never had any difficulty with Eurostar.com.

Anybody remember the hydrofoils crossing the Channel?

Anybody remember the hydrofoils crossing the Channel?>>

vividly. we took one from Dover to Ostende, and on the way back it was so rough we could hear the engine straining; the man in the seat in front of us had a panic attack and kept saying we were going to die which added to the fun.

on another [ferry] trip back from Santander to Plymouth, [across the notorious Bay of Biscay] it was so rough that they tied the cars down on the vehicle decks.

and i do get sea-sick very quickly, so every time DH says he wants to get a ferry to France, I take it as a personal insult. we still go though.

As you say, the majority of Fodors posters are American, and MOST of them use 'Eurostar'.

Not true - more use Channel - we are not talking about you Fodorgarchs but first-timers or casual posters who typically use Chunnel.

janis - why do you think RailEurope uses Chunnel tickets - that should tell you something, right. Most Americans use Chunnel and they is IMO nothing wrong with that and I do not know why folks gets their undies all twisted when they here that word, which is kind of cute IMO.

For me it's Chunnel because I'm an American and have always dalled it that and will continue to and you can call it what you want as well.

Much ado bout nothing IMO - not even worth remarking or harping about.

This discourse has certainly been enlightening to say the least. Relatively new to Fodors and have never heard the reference to Chunnel. Nevertheless, thank you again and EUROSTAR it is.
P.S. I am an American from Florida (no relation to Marco Rubio)

The train service that goes through the tunnel under the English channel is run by a company called Eurostar, right? On the train, they will announce thank you for using eurostar.

But if you are driving from England to France or vice versa, your car is loaded onto a train and you go through what we refer to mistakenly or not the chunnel (the channel tunnel)....of course that doesn't mean that many don't call the train service through the chunnel just that...

It's the fast train to Paris.

Same difference.

There is another option which I did not see mentioned: Megabus. My husband and I took the Eurostar from Paris three years ago and that is the way I would prefer to make the trip. However, this past September we made the trip from London with a friend who is claustrophobic and did not want to chance the tunnel. I was interested in seeing Dover so we were willing to take the ferry.

I investigated the train-ferry-train possibilities and discovered some of the problems mentioned earlier involving transit from the train station to the docks at Dover and from the docks to the train station at Calais. My husband had read about Megabus, looked it up, and we decided to try that. For September 20th, the tickets were £18 apiece. It was an easy but looong journey, not unpleasant, but it is a bus not the train. It was a beautiful day: the Channel was very calm so the crossing itself was nice. We left the apartment in London about 7:00 a.m and arrived at the apartment in Paris about 8:00 p.m. versus probably four hours door-to-door via the Eurostar. For that particular trip, it worked out very well: we got to see the cliffs at Dover, the ferry ride was nice, it was cheap, and we avoided the tunnel. If we do it again, we will have to discuss this issue with the tunnel again; the trip was fine but it took up the entire day! Mrs ImaginaryJazz

For those who are claustrophobic , I am mildly so, and was a bit nervous about the tunnel part of the Eurostar trip. What I found was it was only about 20 minutes long, and it was just like travelling at night ( its dark out in tunnel right) . It was ok. I have done it 4 times now. I find the ear popping as you go through the little tunnels more annoying.


As for the "Eurostar" versus "Chunnel" debate I call it the Eurostar because that is what it is.. that is the name you are looking for in the trian stations ( there is no signs for a "Chunnel" folks) the name on your ticket, etc.

I do find the "I'm American" and "most of us here are American" therefore we will do what we want , really really rude though ,, so might makes right?? And how do you know how many of us are not American, we don't all wave our flags on every post.. sensing some arrogance. Unfortunately I find those types of Americans are never embarrassed by being arrogant..

Chunnel - Eurostar - Much Ado About Nothing - you call it what you want and allow me to do the same - au contraire I find your take very rude.

Like when some Brit says they are going to the Big Apple I do not recoil and reprimand them - I just let them say what they want and I wish everyone would be so kind.

Again much ado about nothing. Nothing except folks who want to be pendantic.

well as a brit i am not in the least bit offended by Pal's use of the term "Chunnel" nor, for that matter, by the non-use of it by others.

so long as we're all clear about what we're talking about, what's the problem?

so true annhig, so true.

I find the attitude that "we are American " and " since most of us on this forum are American we can do/say what we like" offensive, not the actual slangy term "Chunnel" itself( that just strikes me as someone who doesn't really know what its called)
Thankfully only some people have that attitude.

Well why should I not be able to use the word I use and most Americans use?

OK wrong to say because an American forum and mostly Americans here - I agree - but let me use what is natural to me and many other Yanks (another term used by Brits to refer to Americans that we do not use much ourselves but don't upbraid Brits for using.

Please tell me that!

again this is much ado about nothing and when the word Chunnel pops up - a lot of time by others here - just let it go - what difference does it make - except for folks who just want to 'set others straight' - you call it what you want and let me and others call it what I want.

But if it is a lot of fuss about nothing, why do you do it?

There is often a conflict between the local name for something, or the way something is described locally, and how it is done in another country or culture. If you are in Italy, you ask for directions for Firenze, not for Florence, even if Florence is the word you use back home in England.

When in London, use the full name for places to avoid confusion. Liverpool Street Station is a long way from Liverpool Station.

As Justine says, you won't find signs directing you to the Chunnel in London or Paris, and need to know the name used locally.

When travelling in Italy, we were surprised to board an eastbound train with the destination Monaco. We then discovered that Monaco is the Italian for Munich (or Munchen, if you prefer). In the other direction, the same train terminated at Mailand, which is the German for Milan or Milano in Italian.

Palen do as you please i agree its not worth WWIII. I just find a diservice to those who are less experienced travellers and come on these types of forums and maybe really do not realize the correct term is "Eurostar" and are going to wander into Gare Du Nord looking for the "Chunnel" .

PS I do not call Americans "Yanks", or British people "Limeys" or French people "frogs" etc, but thats just me.

I always take the Eurostar to Paris - takes 2 hours 15 minutes from London to the centre of Paris. I then travel all round France by their excellent rail services.

I have gone by ferries years ago but not now - the Eurostar is much more convenient and practical.

Really if doing the ferry London to Paris it is an all-day marathon thing - but to break up the trip into two days or so can be great - again stopping in Canterbury or Dover and on the other side you can take buses from Calais to the Belgian border and go on easily to Bruges.

But if just going London to Paris no the Eurostar trains makes the only sense and also will usually be much cheaper.

I took the Dover-Calais ferry on a sunny September morning last year. I enjoyed it immensely. The boats are well- maintained and you can get a decent cup of coffee. The journey lasts about an hour and a half and the boarding and disembarking process is well-organised (I was driving). It was nice to see Calais emerge from the morning mist. On good day, you can look back and see the white cliffs of Dover from Calais.

For motorists taking the Channel ferries is great over the Euro Tunnel train where you see nothing at all and I too have fond fond memories of taking boats to England - with the song The White Cliffs of Dover playing in my head.

Ah yes! "The White Cliffs of Dover." But we bought the fast train tickets. Oh well, perhaps another time.

Ah yes! "The White Cliffs of Dover." But we bought the fast train tickets. Oh well, perhaps another time.

mrubio - as you are starting from Paris I'm pretty sure that's the right decision.

and it'll probably be too foggy to see the cliffs anyway!

Ah yes! "The White Cliffs of Dover." But we bought the fast train tickets. Oh well, perhaps another time.>

Well when the train emerges on the French side turn around and you may get a brief glimpse of the White Cliffs on Dover across the Channel - unless of course the Channel is fogged in!

>>Well when the train emerges on the French side turn around and you may get a brief glimpse of the White Cliffs on Dover across the Channel - unless of course the Channel is fogged in!<<

That was a joke, right?