There's more to Rome than the Coliseum and the Vatican.

Drive around? Aimlessly? Not every road is scenic or worthwhile.

Genoa is in a westerly direction, Venice in a easterly direction. You're wasting a lot of time by going to Genoa. With the little time you have, you need to prioritize.

You need to start reading guidebooks about Italy and Paris to figure out what would really interest you.

For a first time in Europe, Venice, Florence, Rome and fly to Paris would probably do it. But maybe you would not be satisfied with just large cities.

Thanks for your response, Michael! I am doing as much reading as time allows which is not much. Very overwhelmed as to how to prioritize Italy. No, hopefully not drive around aimlessly, just heading towards connecting flight to Paris. Which are the scenic roads worthwhile? Thanks again for your time.

well the car centre of Italy is around Bologna/Ferrara/Palma

City centres of many towns are a useless place to take a car, so you may find using the trains (trenitalia) (which in Europe are pleasant and inexpensive) are a better solution

Given your interest in structural photography and your husband's interest in machinery and cars, a trip to Italy that focused on Rome, the Ferrari factory near Modena, and Venice could really be a thrill for both of you. Most of the time your photography opportunities are going to be more about ancient than modern structure -- Italy just doesn't have all that much modern, although in that sense it is a pity you don't have time for Genova -- but I think you will find it delightful to photograph Rome and what remains of the work of some of the world's greatest architects and engineers. Do NOT miss the Pantheon.

From Rome I suggest you take the train to Modena. Look up the Ferrari factory tours online. They are just outside of Modena in the town of Maranello. You can get there without a car, but spend 2 nights in Modena. It is a great food capital of Italy with beautiful architecture.

In Venice, your husband would probably be extremely interested to see the woodwork in the Scuola dei Carmine, the choir stalls in the church of San Giorgio Maggiore and the gondala repair shops (you can find the address in guidebooks). You will also find a lot to photograph inside and out in Venice, and make a special point of going to the neighborhood of the Arsenale.

For such a brief time in Italy, it really doesn't make sense to rent a car, although if your husband is a car buff, it might be hard to talk him out of it. If you get committed to renting a car, he must read up on Italy's strict laws that forbid non-residents from driving in many parts of the major cities. These "no-go" zones are called a ZTL (zona traffico limitato) and they are monitored by video cameras that record the license plates of violators and mail them tickets with VERY large fines. Rental companies cooperate with the police in providing home addresses, so you really can't get away it.

Use the website booking.com to get the best hotels for your budget.

Hope you have a great time!

For a first trip, and that amount of time I would not rent a car. Since you come from a small town in the US I think you will be pleasantly surprised how easy and efficient it is to travel in Europe by train. You can see more small towns with a car but for the vast majority of things most people, especially for the first time, want to see, trains are the way to go.

The first day will likely be jet lagged, and there is much to see (and photograph) in Rome - and even the two main sites you mention will take half a day each to see - so I suggest you give Rome four or five days. Then you can do one or two day trips if you want to. In fact, Florence is a reasonable day trip - so you can 'see' it. There is so much in both those cities that many first timers get frustrated when they have too little time. But if you give yourself five days in Rome and just love it so much you don't have to do a day trip. On the other hand if you don't love it you can take a day and go to Florence - and if you really wanted another day and go to Naples, or Pompeii, or numerous other places - all by train.

Then you could stop for a couple of nights in Modena or some other town in that area - Bologna would be a logical stop. This gives you the opportunity to see another place, a smaller city, yet does not add to the total travel time. I say Modena because of the car thing - personally not into cars so I don't know about that, but it's a cute town. I love Bologna.

Then Venice for three days.

Then fly to Paris (check easyjet.com) for the rest of your time.

Book for flights into Rome and home from Paris so you don't have to back track.

Goodness gracious, you guys are so kind! Thank you SO much for your personalized recommendations!

We looked into car rental because it seemed less expensive than the EuroRail, but it sounds like it is more of a hassle. Thanks for letting us know! What is the best way to get around in the city, then, besides foot? I'm prone to be carrying a lot of gear .

The hopeless romantic in me could stare at the Eiffel Tower all week long, but should we stretch our Italy stay a little longer or what would you recommend in France as well?

Thanks again for taking interest in us. We highly appreciate it!

A car is useless in the bigger cities in Italy. Most historic/central areas are pedestrian only or require a permit to drive into, and as mentioned above the fines for entering the restricted zones are ugly! Have you checked out the price of gas? I paid the $8.50-9.00/gallon (comverted) near Rome last Oct, and parking can run you 40 Euros/night.
Trains are a fabulous way to travel. You can relax and enjoy the scenery. The 'fast' train between Rome and Florence only takes 90 minutes. The kiosk in the station is simple to use and signs are easy to follow to the correct track.
I would recommend you stay as close to the center of the cities as possible. The actual room might be a bit more expensive but you'll save on daily transport and the convenience of being able to walk to sights and back to your hotel.
Rome is amazing! It's my favorite city anywhere. Get yourself a good map and highlight some of the major sights you'd like to see. I love 'MapEasy's Guide to Rome' (Florence, Paris, etc) I've gotten them at Barnes and Noble and love them. They have all sorts of tips and show where hotels area, restaurants, shopping areas, etc are. It makes it really easy to see if the hotel you're considering is in a good location for you.
A good day trip from Rome is Ostia Antica. It's the 2000 year old seaport near Rome. It's only a 30 minute train ride and I prefer it to Pompeii.
You can download podcasts of sights (Rick Steves site has some) and listen as you walk.
There's a free walking tour in Rome. It meets every evening at the Keats/Shelley House at the bottom of the Spanish Steps. You'll see the Trevi fountain, the Pantheon, Piazza Navona, etc.
Book a tour of the Roman Forum otherwise it's a jumble of ruins. A tour of the Vatican museum/Sistine Chapel will also get you entrance to St Peter's. You can enter just the church as well but be prepared for lines and security checks if you go on your own.
Regarding your propensity to 'carry a lot of gear' - DON"T!!
Put out everything you plan to take and then put half away. Seriously!
A lot of sights now require your bag to go thru an xray before entering, some will make you leave your bag at the door. Carry as little with you as possible. Another reason to stay as central as possible, so you can stop back at your hotel in the afternoon to rest, put your feet up, change clothes...
But seriously, take less 'stuff' and more money!

"We looked into car rental because it seemed less expensive than the EuroRail, but it sounds like it is more of a hassle"

Forget about EurRail. Those are railpasses that are expensive - though often they do make sense, not in this situation. You don't need any sort of pass. Trains in Italy tend to be inexpensive.

Then you can fly cheaply to Paris.

Is there a specific reason that you want to include Paris on this trip? With two full weeks, focusing only on Italy, you might find it easier to figure out what you want to do/see and also there is so much to see in all of Italy that even two full weeks doesn't begin to touch it all. We've been to Italy 4 times now and we still haven't gotten to Bologna or Genoa which I would love to see. With two full weeks, you could fly into Rome (please spend more than 1 night - it is an incredible city!) and out of Venice. This would leave you time to "backtrack" down to Pompeii/Amalfi Coast area or spend time exploring even more of the small towns in Tuscany, Umbria, etc.

I do think Paris is a wonderful city but it might seem less overwhelming if you concentrated this trip on wonderful Italy!

All so personal, but if you have two full weeks on the ground, I would cut Paris to 5 days and add 2 to Italy, making that 9. If not, I would do 5 nts (4 days) Paris and 8 nts (7 days) Italy. No car for this trip. You also don't need a Eurail pass, just point to point tickets in Italy and fly to Paris.

Depending on flights, I would probably do the opposite: arrive Venice, train to Bologna or Florence, train to Rome, fly to Paris. Reason: Venice is a nice place to spend your first jet-lagged days and beautiful, easy walking.

Skip Genoa - not enough time.

I prefer Florence to Bologna, but the best food I've had in Italy was in Bologna.

Listen to the advice about taking less stuff, yes, even photo equipment.

No, IMHO, with your short time, Naples is not worth backtracking. You obviously want to savor what you see and take photos, so don't add anything. If you want to cut Venice and North, you could do Rome, Naples and the AC, (fly into Rome and from Naples to Paris), but based on your interests, I would stick with Rome and North.

Paris and all of Italy is so beautiful, you will have a wonderful time no matter where you decide to go. Happy 10th.

lb79.

There are some photographers who post on this board so once you have figure out your itinerary, put up a separate post asking them about how they tote around their gear. However, cities in Italy are not huge when it comes to the antique parts that are of most interest to visitors. You can walk around Modena in less than an hour. Rome is bigger, but there is public transportation or taxis if your feet start to give out. Venice has water buses or water taxis through the canals, , or very expensive gondola rides -- or else you walk! But is is small.

Paris has an excellent public transit system in case you feel like you want to see more than the Eiffel Tower, including the beautiful public "batobus" boat that goes up and down the Seine.

There are also overnight trains from Venice to Paris. Not everybody can sleep on an overnight train so it might not work for you. (I've know very little about the trip, but there is lots of info on the web.)

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/night-train-venice-to-paris-439074-2.cfm

lb79,

I well understand the desire to cram in as much as possible [though to be fair you haven't tried half as hard in that direction as many others who arrive here wanting to see 10 cities in as many days] but you need to factor into your travels the time it takes to get from an airport/station to your hotel, check in, accustom yourselves to the place, find what you want to see, etc. etc. Then at the other end is checking out, return to airport or station, hanging about waiting for train or plane, - and that's if they run on time!

so IMO you will have a more satisfactory trip if you don't try to move around too often.

I like GA's suggestions, and i agree that for this trip I'd stick to Italy - there is so much variety that you will not find it at all "samey". I also like Atl travel's idea of adding in the Amalfi, but i would put it towards the end as you are arriving in April and leaving in May.

as you are coming from the US, i suggest flying into Venice [arrivals don't get much more romantic than that] then train to Florence [or Modena!] , train to Naples and thence to the Amalfi, and finally back to Rome to finish your trip and fly home.

if your DH MUST have a car, you could pick one up on leaving Venice, and then tour from there to wherever you want to return it, remembering only that you are better off staying in small places that don't have traffic restrictions [or not such strict ones as in places like Florence]. then continue as above.

have fun planning!

Photography is one of the main reasons I travel (my photos are here: http://www.pbase.com/annforcier - there are several galleries of Italy photos. But I got tired very fast lugging around an SLR so I travel with a much lighter camera. For the past several years I've used the Panasonic Lumix. I've had several, right now I have the FZ150 and love it. I also carry a smaller 'back-up' camera. Have used Canon Elph but at the moment I'm using the Panasonic LX5. Lugging around a heavy SLR and having to stop to change lenses - just not worth the hassle for me. I'd rather be able to hike up that hill, or climb that bell tower, and walk ten or more miles a day - I think I get better photos that way than spending all my time and energy dealing with lenses and tripods.

For trains within italy, look for tickets at the official site:

http://www.fsitaliane.it/homepage_en.html

You can;t use cars in city centers - besides the fact that much is pedestrian only - even in areas that allow parking it's expensive - figure at least $30 per night in a garage (hotels do;t have parking) plus the $100 or so per dayyou would be paying for a car you;re not driving.

Don;t misunderstand me - we hve done many road trips in europe - but not in major cites - that;s for the countryside and smaller towns (and hotels still often don;t have parking and you often have to park outside town walls and walk in.) When we trvel in europe we figure on walking from 8 to 10 miles per day - from hotel to and around sights and back. If you get tires you can grab a cab back - stil way cheaper than a car.

And do realize that driving in europe is NOT like driving in the US. Speeds are higher, drivers are more assertive and there are very strict rules (NO driving in the left land ever - only for passing - as in while you re actually passing with yuor blinker on. Drivers are technically more proficient and expect you to be as well. Also - one off the main roads they are often narrow with perhaps a single lane for passing in the center - and not for the faint of heart. Also, parkig is parallel - not mall-type - and you need to be able to put the car in a space barely biger than it is - on either side (driver or passenger.)

Wow, I am beyond words! Thank you again! I've not been able to sleep with all the excitement... you describe it as beautiful as I imagine it!

@AtlTravelr and @annhig - Hitting Paris is on the wish list because we don't know when and if we might be able to go back. Our lines of work, finances, and planning for a family only add to the equation. Plus all this warm-blodded girl dreams of is to have a photo with her hubby in front of the Eiffel Tower .

But I really do appreciate everyone's input! You have brought up very good points. And I am taking your advice. We'll cut our stay in Paris short to 2-3 nights so we can enjoy more of Italy, and we'll fly into Venice and work our way south and spend more time in Rome.

I'm counting 16 days on the ground, and I like the point to point train travel ideas so we don't have to move as much. But how does the train system work? Are they flat rate or do I need to purchase in advance to save money? Are they flexible with change in schedules? Do they take walk-ins? I looked at the link @ellenem sent, and I'm trying to figure it out. For example, is $30 US dollars per person for a day trip between Rome to Florence reasonable?

Thanks guys!

The Man in Seat 61 is like the bible of train travel.

Here is his page that tells you everything you want/need to know about trains in Italy. http://www.seat61.com/Italy-trains.htm

I think with 16 days you can easily include Paris. You won't be able to see "all" of Italy in that amount of time anyway so the only reason not to go to Paris is that it will take the better part of a day. But easyjet has at least three or four flights every day between Rome and Paris, for under €50 so it 's not that big a deal. But if you are going to time and expense to get to Paris then I would spend more than 2-3 days. I think 4-5 days would give you a more realistic chance of having a satisfying experience.

I suggest you fly into Venice, spend 3 days, train to one other area and spend 3 days, then to Rome for 5 days and then fly to Paris 5 days. That lets you experience three major destinations plus one more smaller one (people were mentioning Modena but there are many other small cities between Venice and Rome that would be enjoyable). And with five days in Rome and Paris you have time to do a day trip from each if you want.

You can pretty much go anywhere in Italy by just showing up at the train station and getting a 'point to point' ticket the day you want to go. Obviously if you check the on-line schedules you can structure your time better. You can get better prices in some cases if you buy in advance but for relatively short trips you aren't talking huge amounts of money. And unless you are traveling at a few very specific holiday periods, you don't need to worry about a train getting 'sold out'.

There are several different types of trains - slow Regional trains that make lots of stops and therefore might take several hours to go from point a to point b, but only cost a few euro. Then there are IC (intercity) and ES (eurostar) trains which are faster, don't make as many stops and therefore get from point A to point B in half the time but cost more. The trenitalia site (http://www.fsitaliane.it/homepage_en.html) is easy to use. For example, from Venice to Bologna there are trains that take 1 hour eleven minutes and cost €30 or trains that take 2 hours, price not listed but probably about €10. You could buy the more expensive ones online in advance, but not the cheaper ones - you'd just them a few minutes before you wanted to travel.

From Rome to Florence it looks like the regular fare is about €43 per person each way for a train that takes less than an hour and a half. You might be able to get a promo fee. They have lots of promo fees for as low as €9. If you do a search on this forum you'll find lots of threads about how to get those promo fees.

You must be so excited about the 1st. trip to Europe - I remember mine as I was standing in Vatican City looking at St. Peter's thinking "I can't believe a small town girl like me is in Italy!"

I'm going against what everyone else is says about transportation. We always rent a car and it's quite an experience - your husband shouldn't pass this up. Take a train from Rome to Florence and then rent a car and drive around Tuscany to see the small villages - this is where you see the real Italy. Drive to Venice and drop the car off. When you're done seeing this unforgetable city, fly to Paris.

We use AutoEurope.com for every trip. Look online 1st. to where all the rentals are located and then give them a call. After I book a car, I keep checking back to see if the price is lower. If so, they will give you a credit but they'll never charge you more.

Have a wonderful trip and remember, whatever you do, you can't do it wrong.

I have nothing to actually contribute I just wanted to say I'm really excited for you!!

Ditto what isabel said about gear - don't lug too much. I'm a photographer too and by day 6ish I'm usually ready to abandon my equipment because I'm sick of it! And I don't usually take a lot to begin with. If you're taking an SLR, narrow it down to 2 or 3 lenses. I usually take 1 zoom and 1 or 2 prime lenses that are smaller and lighter weight.

Definitely take a smaller camera too, even a bare bones point and shoot, so that on days that you want nothing to do with your gear you can leave it behind and still get some shots.

Enjoy all the advice you'll find here - and be sure to mold it to fit yourselves. I think the biggest thing we've learned is to use what we know about ourselves here and apply it to our travel plans. Do you frequently spend long trips in the car here? How much do you like to squeeze into a weekend before your desperate to just relax on your sofa? That kind of thing. Think that about that and consider the exhausted-but-excited-traveler factor and you'll be able to plan a good trip for yourselves.

Have a wonderful trip!!!

For a first trip to Europe, I would suggest looking at one of the tour company handouts describing (in deceptively worded terms) their tours of the places you are interested in, not to buy the tour, but they will list the must sees of the place. It's a sort of "round up the usual suspects" thing, but will give you a handy list of the major sights in any place.

Trains are definitely the way to go in Italy. Your plan would work best as fly into Venice, then go to Rome with one intermediate stop (Florence is the classic for tours), then fly to Paris. Arranging everything yourself may be more hassle than you want, depending on your budget and language proficiency, but this forum will help with any questions and more suggestions than you will be able to follow.

An alternative to the fully planned guided tour and fully do-it-yourself would be to pick up a flights plus hotels package and arrange for your own sight seeing, self guided or, as has been recommended for Rome, individual site purchased guided tours. They book the flights and the hotels (you select from their list after researching their offerings elsewhere) and the rest is up to you. As this is a first trip, you might want to use a travel agent to do the dirty work for you and run interference if there are glitches.

Sounds like your trip is shaping up nicely! You are going to have a wonderful time. I agree that at least one more night in Paris is a good idea. Since this is your first trip to Europe, I will just offer a few general travel trips, which you may or may not already know...

- since it seems like you'll need to charge your camera battery, be sure to purchase a converter before you go. European electric outlets have different prongs than our American outlets, so you need a converter that allows you to plug your American prongs into the European wall.

- I'll echo the advice to pack light. Remember that you'll need to carry your bags through several train stations, and onto trains (which often involve a couple of steps). To help keep your bags light, plan on wearing clothes multiple times. No one in Europe knows you, so it's ok to wear the same shirt three days in a row.

- I find my favorite part of "experiencing" Europe is slowing down during meal time. Plan to spend long lazy meals. Spend a few hours people-watching in outdoor cafes sipping wine or coffee. Don't eat dinner at 6... you'll find in most of Italy and Paris, people dine much later. And know that the waiter won't bring you the check until you ask for it (they feel it is rude to rush you out).

- Often the most memorable part of any trip is the thing you didn't plan. So be prepared in advance , but go with the flow once you are there and accept that things may not go exactly the way you expected.

- if you haven't already done so, get a guidebook and bring it with you on the trip. Since these books can often be bulky, don't be afraid to rip pages out as needed. Also be sure to bring some other reading material. I especially like to bring a novel set in the place I'm visiting, to read while on planes and trains, or to help me fall asleep at night in a strange bed.

I think everyone on this forum is pulling for you to have a wonderful trip. Enjoy!

""The Man in Seat 61 is like the bible of train travel."

Yes, right down to his evangelizing dogmatically for all train travel even when it would make more sense to fly or drive. That site has got stellar logistical information about purchasing tickets, etc., but you should read reviews and feedback about some long-distance train trips, and also check out the comparative price savings or convenience of flying, or the fun of driving (although bear in mind it is not much fun to drive in italian cities, and can be very expensive -- especially if you do it wrong, which is easy to do in Italian cities.

All modes of transport in Europe have their upsides and downsides. Pick the one you'll find least annoying. Some people now belong to near-religious cults when it comes to "commandments" of travel and what they "always" do every trip no matter what, and wave bibles of salvation, but there really is no substitute for weighing everything from an individual standpoint of your own personalities.

zeppole/goldenautumn: No one said that trains are the only way to go . . . but if one IS taking trains, then seat61 is indispensable.

No need to use terms like cult/dogmatic - but then you can't seem to post w/o slamming someone.

SO humbled over your genuine excitement about our trip, guys! It brings tears to my eyes to think strangers (no longer) are cheering for us. Thank you so much!

We're feeling comfortable with our itinerary and are hoping to book in the next day or so. Already prices have gone up by $300/each, and I must confess it's making me a little nervous because we haven't looked much at the other essentials (food and bed) or even thought about european converters (thank you @msteacher). And holy buckets gondola rides are expensive!

What tips might you have to stretch out our dollars? And what local "tricks" (if we can call them this) should we stay away from?

Thanks again!

And holy buckets gondola rides are expensive!>>

ib - they are not compulsory!. if you do decide to bite the bullet, the price is per ride, not per person, and you'll probably only do it once. [i've been to Venice about half a dozen times, and not been on a gondola yet].with 6 people, the cost really isn't that bad.

most of the time you'll be walking or using the vaporetti, and the price of those is brought down greatly if you buy a pass for at least some of the time you'll be there. even in Venice you can find cheaper places to eat - look out for Trattoria and Rosticceria which generally specialise in cheap and tasty meat, fish and vegetables which have been roasted in the oven. That applies all over Italy, not just in Venice.

Like ann just said - been to Venice multiple times, never been on a gondola - haven't missed it. I like looking at them, taking photos of them, but feel no need to spend money to ride in one. But getting out on the water is important and vaporetti (water buses) are inexpensive and fun.

Things like plug adapters are cheap (like $2-3 on line) and you won't need the more expensive 'converters' (which change the kind of electrical current from N.Am to Euro) for your camera gear as all that stuff is international. Same for phones, computers, etc. It's only a few things like maybe hairdryers that you need the converters for. I don't even have one. I do usually bring a small extension cord that I can plug multiple things into (and then you need just one plug adapter) because a lot of hotel rooms don't have a lot of available outlets and if you travel with multiple cameras plus computer, phone, kindle, etc you often need to plug several things in each night.

I would probably not rent a car for your trip, but if you do (for a few days to do the countryside, not for the cities) then check Kemwell as well as AutoEurope and their prices can be quite different (even though they are sister companies). Also check different pick up and drop off locations. I just rented a car for my trip this summer and saved over $200 by not going with the first thing I saw.

For hotels start with a booking site like booking.com They really do have a ton of hotels in all price ranges, are very easy to deal with, and great if you need to change or cancel anything. The site itself doesn't charge anything, and most of the hotels don't charge anything upfront, only after you have stayed. A few do however, do charge your card a prepayment of usually one night but this will be stated on the site - and it's the hotel not booking.com that is charging you. And it's still refundable if you meet their cancellation policy. Sometimes they have 'nonrefundable, pay in advance' prices that are considerably less, so if you know your dates and are comfortable with that it is one way to save a little. Unfortunately Rome, Venice and Paris are expensive cities for hotels but I can usually stay well under €150 night for a double even there, and under €100 a night in other places - and these are clean, safe, well located hotels. Don't go by the star rating, a two star can be just as nice as a four star, only won't have some services (like maybe no restaurant or possibly no lift or things like that). TripAdvisor is another site that for me is invaluable. I find possibilities on booking.com and then go to tripadvisor.com to read the reviews (booking.com has reviews also).

For food the best 'budget' tip is to eat picnics and street food - it's the sit down waiter service meals that run up the price. There are fabulous street markets and little shops that sell the makings of great picnics and sitting in a park or square to eat it is one of my favorite parts of traveling. When you do have sit down restaurant meals don't go to restaurants in the main tourist locations (not on the Grand Canal in Venice, not in Piazza Narvona in Rome, etc.). On my first trip to Venice we went to a pizza restaurant on the grand canal, the menu prices for the pizza were very reasonable, they didn't list prices for drinks - well when the bill came it was enormous and it was the drinks and the 'cover' charge that did it.

There are tons of tips like these on this site. Have fun planning.

I think the Italy lovers have taken the day here, and I'll just say if you only go to paris for two days at the end of your trip you'll wonder "what was I thinkin'". I would please give it more time. There is plenty of architectural and structural photography there too!! LOL
And again, I do not think Paris is "expensive" if you plan.