Good that you've read other threads and know that you have to limit your destinations.

I live in the inland northwest, so even if I sleep a little on the plane, I'm always wiped out by jet lag the first day after arrival. Jet lag is less of a problem if you live on the east coast, but you should be aware that your first day in Amsterdam may be a blur if you don't.

Amsterdam is such a wonderful city that I'd recommend spending at least three days there. I wasn't enchanted by Cologne, except for the cathedral, but using it for a base is a good idea.

One more recommendation--Rothenburg is quite charming, but it's jammed with tourists during the day. I suggest that you spend at least one night there, rather than doing it as a day trip. The morning and the evening are much more pleasant than the daytime.

I like your idea of train travel. Train travel in the Netherlands and Germany is especially comfortable and convenient.

Jet lag was one of my concerns with only staying 2 days in Amsterdam. I'll take an extra day there into consideration. I'm also not necessarily committed to staying in Cologne if there are better options. I suppose Amsterdam and seeing Rothenburg and surrounding areas are the only two places that are 'must sees'.

Jet lag is a problem if you don't deal with it on the arrival day. Otherwise, the problem lingers on and adding additional day is not productive.

Your itinerary probably favors open-jaw flights: in one airport coming back from another. Additionally I would recommend not to lock yourself into arriving in AMS unless you have a compelling reason to do so. Look both at in AMS coming home from somewhere in Germany vs. fly into somewhere in Germany and fly home from AMS. You will get many different arrival time/departure time/layover/cost differences.

If you are heading to Rothenburg, after spending some time in the Mosel or the Rhine, why not tour around he area, Wurzburg, Heidelberg, Nuremberg, etc? There are many airports around the area with good connections: FRA MUC are international flight hubs. Nuremberg and Stuttgart also has good connections to other European hub airports.

If you arrive early in the morning at AMS, think about how you spend that day when you might not have an access to your accommodation until later in the afternoon.

Adam - I must agree about giving more time to Amsterdam, at minimum 3 nights, particularly dealing with jet lag. I would then move on to the Rhine or Mosel valleys, stopping at Cologne for a few hours to visit the city. Cochem is a favorite destination for the Mosel, and St. Goar, Bacharach, or any number of other similarly quaint towns are good destinations for the Rhine.

From there you can move on to Rothenburg ObT and perhaps Bamberg, particularly if you like beer. Or move on to Munich for the end of your journey.

An open-jaw air ticket for this type of itinerary is the only way to go. If you're alredy stuck with flying in and out of AMS, then I would suggest a loop from Cologne to the Mosel, to Trier and Luxembourg, then up through Brussels and Brugge, then back to AMS.

For rail schedules, check out:

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

My husband and I travelled from the Mosel to Munich in 2007. Here's a link to my trip report, for some ideas.

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/germany-from-the-mosel-to-munich---a-detailed-trip-report.cfm

Robyn

If going by train in Holland and Germany more than a few train rides then be sure to investigate the Benelux-Germany Railpass, that lets you hop on virtually every train at will in Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg and Germany - just show up and jump on - such fully flexible tickets often cost a ton - compare prices at www.bahn.de - German Railways web site.
Passes are also valid in full on K-D boats on the best part of The Rhine (Rudeshseim/Bingen to Koblenz) - www.k-d.com and if in Cologne some days it is an easy day trip by train to the Rhine Gorge - do the boat downstream to Koblenz and return to Cologne from there by train.

Robyn writes, "Adam - I must agree about giving more time to Amsterdam, at minimum 3 nights, particularly dealing with jet lag. I would then move on to the Rhine or Mosel valleys, stopping at Cologne for a few hours to visit the city. Cochem is a favorite destination for the Mosel, and St. Goar, Bacharach, or any number of other similarly quaint towns are good destinations for the Rhine."

Very good advice. Spend most of a day in Cologne and arrive in the Middle Rhine Valley that same evening. Aachen, mentioned on the thread you refer to: The cathedral is very interesting. Otherwise, Aachen for me was a pleasant but mostly unexceptional experience. If you decide to visit Aachen, then spending a night in Cologne makes sense. But I would want to move on to the Rhine and Mosel fairly soon and spend 3+ nights there. A couple of nights in Cochem (with daytrips to Trier and Burg Eltz) and a couple of nights on the Rhine (with a river cruise and daytrips to west bank villages St. Goar, Boppard, Bacharach and Oberwesel, and Marksburg Castle in Braubach on the east bank) would be just about right for a full experience.

"After this, I need some ideas. I'd love to see Rothenburg or similar towns."


Rothenburg is the one everyone knows about and flocks to - it's worthwhile but it's heavily over-touristed and not the only such place to visit. Closer to the Rhine is Gelnhausen, east of Frankfurt a lesser-known but similarly attractive place without the massive tourist influx:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtCzNK12U3U

The trip there will save you roughly 2 hours of train travel over the trip to Rothenburg (4.5 hours.)

If you have more days, you might continue on from Gelnhausen to Rothenburg (about 2.5-3 hours away) or to fabulous Bamberg (about the same travel time.)

https://www.stadt.bamberg.de/index.phtml?La=1&mNavID=1829.376&object=tx|1829.2661.1&kat=&kuo=1&sub=0

A trip to either place takes you through Würzburg. Würzburg would be a good base for visiting both Rothenburg and Bamberg - there are hotels near the station - or a good place to stopover for a few hours to visit the Residenz Palace (a 15-min. walk from the station; put bags in lockers.)

http://www.schloesser.bayern.de/englisch/palace/objects/wu_res.htm

Sorry about that Bamberg link above. Try this one - then click on the Brit flag at the bottom for English:

https://www.stadt.bamberg.de/index.phtml

I second, or actually third or fourth the advice to take more time in Amsterdam. It is a wonderful city with so much to see and do. The last time we were in Amsterdam, we also spent some time in Brussels and that too is a beautiful city that you might want to consider.

Thanks again for the responses everyone! I checked the flights into various cities and the prices really didn't seem to vary that much at this point. We haven't purchased anything yet so I'll keep checking periodically. Our intent has always been to arrive at one airport and fly out of another, and I now know that's called an open-jaw air ticket.

Since I know we want to see Rothenburg I've also been looking into some of the surrounding towns and thinking about starting the trip in Nuremburg (ending in Amsterdam) and also seeing Bamberg and possibly Wurzburg while we're in that area. I'm not sure if Nuremberg would make a good base point to explore those town as day trips or not. It doesn't seem like they're too far apart by rail. If this is possible I'd probably plan for 4 days exploring that region before heading to our next stops.

Next, spend 5 days traveling up the Rhine and making our way to Amsterdam. Stops to be determined. I'm thinking it would be nice to take trains and boats as we make our way north.

And finally end the trip with 3 days in Amsterdam.

Nuremberg is a good base for seeing the other towns you mention by train. You can reach Rothenburg in 1 hr. 15 min., Bamberg in 45, Würzburg in 1 hr. 10 min.

Nuremberg is however a city of substantial size - not the slightest bit similar to Rothenburg, not quaint (though its old town is attractive.) If you want to stay in a smaller town, look into attractive and untouristy Neustadt an der Aisch. You'll be in Bamberg in one hour by train, Nuremberg 30 min., Rothenburg 1 hour 10 min. and Würzburg in 40 min.

Iphofen is also VERY nice. 25 min. to Würzburg, 45 min. to Nuremberg, 1 hr. 20 min. to Bamberg, and 1 hr. 42 min. to Rothenburg.

These travel times are for regional trains - the ones you can use with inexpensive daypasses like the Bayern ticket and the VGN "Tagesticket Plus."

http://www.munich-touristinfo.de/Bavaria-Ticket.htm
http://www.vgn.de/tickets/?Edition=en&p=1

Bamberg was a surprise to me - I knew it what nice but it floored me with how nice and also how real a town it was - rivers bisecting the town center - Rothenburg is great for what it is - a museum piece largely and at night a small quiet town - nice but not a real real town IMO like Bamberg or Nuremberg, another town I like a whole lot.

So I've come up with a rough itinerary based on everyone's comments and additional research. All comments and feedback are welcome, especially for days 7-10. I've used the DB Navigator mobile app to estimate travel times listed. Regarding Cologne, there's a chance some friends from the US will be there around the same time. That's the only reason I've added a stop there. Thanks!

Day 1:
Fly out of US

Day 2:
Arrive Nuremberg, Germany before noon
Spend afternoon exploring Nuremberg
Take early evening train (45 to 60 minutes) to Bamberg (night in Bamberg

Day 3:
Explore Bamberg (night in Bamberg)

Day 4:
Explore other towns in the area (night in Bamberg)

Day 5:
Leave Bamberg
Take train to Wurzberg (1 hour)
Explore Wurzberg
Take train to Gelnhausen (1.5 to 2 hours) OR Take train to Rothenburg (1 hour) (night in Gelnhausen or Rothenburg

Day 6:
Explore Gelnhausen or Rothenburg
Take train to Cochem (night in Cochem)...Gelnhausen to Cochem 3-3.5 hours. Rothenburg to Cochem almost 5 hours.

Day 7:
Explore area (night in Cochem)

Day 8:
Explore area (night in Cochem)

Day 9:
Explore area (night in Cochem) OR start to head north and spend a night in ????

Day 10:
Head to Cologne (night in Cologne)
Explore Cologne

Day 11: Leave Cologne early and arrive Amsterdam (night in Amsterdam)

Day 12: Explore Amsterdam (night in Amsterdam)
Day 13: Explore (night in Amsterdam)
Day 14: Leave Amsterdam, Return Home

It's been a few months but I'm back and I believe I have the itinerary nailed down. So, this is the current plan:

September 10 (T): Fly STL to Munich Airport
September 11 (W): Arrive in Munich
September 12 (Th): Munich
September 13 (F): Munich
September 14 (S): Leave Munich and Arrive Rothenburg
September 15 (Su): Leave Rothenburg and Arrive Bamberg
September 16 (M): Bamberg
September 17 (T): Leave Bamberg and Arrive Cochem
September 18 (W): Cochem
September 19 (Th): Cochem
September 20 (F): Leave Cochem and Arrive Cologne. Meet up with friends.
September 21 (S): Leave Cologne and Arrive Amsterdam
September 22 (Su): Amsterdam
September 23 (M): Amsterdam
September 24 (T): Fly Amsterdam to STL

I have a question about rail travel now. I added up all of the fares between the destinations on the bahn website and came up with a range of $455 to $635. The German Rail Twin Pass is currently around $415 for a 5 day pass. Would this pass be the best option for traveling between all of the destinations I have listed? Would it work between Cologne and Amsterdam? And I'm assuming that while I'm in Munich the Bavaria-Ticket (Bayern Ticket) would be the best option for day trips?

Thanks in advance!

<Jet lag was one of my concerns with only staying 2 days in Amsterdam>

That was exactly the suggestion I was coming to post... I'd put another day or two in Amsterdam, since it is your first stop (to get over jet lag before continuing on).

About fares - are those full fares or the discounted ones from bahn.de - if it is full fare then by all means the pass is a bargain and lets you hop on any train anytime - yes the pass gives you total flexibility - discounted tickets are train-specific and cannot be changed and must be booked eons in advance to guarantee - often you can get 29 euro or 39 euro discounted tickets if you book far enough in advance - so that could be significantly cheaper than a pass but you lose flexibility - I love just to hop out of my hotel and head to the station and just hop on the next train - no advance planning, etc.

You actually only have two longish train trips - all your Bavarian trains could be on the Lander Pass you note - but this relegates you to local trains - not fast trains so traveling say to Rothenburg can take much longer and regional trains IME are not that comfy - sometimes hard-metal seats in 2nd class and cana get mobbed by school kids as these trains double as school buses at times IME.

The more days you buy on the German Twin Pass the cheaper they get - a 6th day would cost about 15 euros or so - actually for two folks just a tad more than the Lander Card and you have carte blanche to hop any train anytime.

There is also a Germany-Benelux Pass but that is much more expensive than the German Pass alone I believe - from Cologne to Amsterdam try to nab one of those 29 euro tickets on www.bahn.de/en - do not use a day on your pass on that one.

For lots of great info on German trains check out http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id9.html; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com - the latter has good info on discounted tickets, which if combined with Lander Passes could be the cheapest route (if not the best IMO).

In Cochem do not miss a visit to Burg Eltz, one of Germany's most famous castles - even being pictured on the 500 mark banknote before the euro came into being.

It is one of the rare castles along the Mosel and Rhine not to have been ruined thru the ages by marauding armies - it hovers high high above the Mosel - you can take a train, bus or rent a bike to go to Moselkern from where mini-buses or taxis take you the few miles to the castle or you can do sweet stroll thru a forest up there.

Thanks for the info. Burg Eltz is definitely on my list of sites to see.

The price range I listed before included discounted ticket prices on the low end, and full fare on the high end. I'm just trying to figure out the most economical way to travel between Munich-Rothenburg, Rothenburg-Bamberg, Bamberg-Cochem, Cochem-Cologne, and Cologne-Amsterdam. Like you said though, it would be much nicer to just be able to hop on any train than have to worry about making connections on trains booked in advance.

I assume you realize a more efficient routing would be
Munich-Bamberg
Bamberg-Rothenburg
Rothenburg-Cochem
Cochem-Cologne
Cologne-Amsterdam

Have a good trip!

In any case do not be too hasty if buying a pass because it is not uncommon for the German Pass to have specials (at least in the U.S. marketing part - like a free day or some other enticement that could make it a better deal - but if you've already bought a pass you would not be able to get a subsequently offered better deal.

@Travelforbeer, I do realize it's not the most efficient route. The original plan was to visit the towns in the order you listed. I was having trouble finding an available hotel in Bamberg, in my price range, that had a Saturday check-in open. So I gave up, reversed the order of Rothenburg and Bamberg, and it opened up more options for hotels in Bamberg.

I'll try to make the most of the change though and perhaps get an early start and see some towns between Munich and Rothenburg.

I'll try to make the most of the change though and perhaps get an early start and see some towns between Munich and Rothenburg>

Augsburg is a big big town but a very pleasant one - others could be Dinkelsbuhl or Nordlingen two gems on the Romantik Road.

There is also the Romantic Road bus that starts in Munich and stops in some cute towns en route to Rothenburg.

http://www.touring-travel.eu/index.php?id=17&L=2&tttlng=2