You might want to drop off the car in Chartres and visit the cathedral before going on to Paris.

I have no problem with lugging a one-year-old to France - Did it twice, with two of them, and lugged them about 50 more times also, so no argument from me.

Day 6 - Beynac isn't a city; it's a village.

Forget Limoges - it's a dump. You wanna buy porceleine? You can get it Stateside for less. Try Tuesday Morning. A day in Limoges is a day wasted in France, IMO. Go to Oradour-sur-Glane.

The rest sounds reasonable.

Thanks for the tips & suggestions. Sorry about the verbage - cities vs. villages.. what I was trying to determine was whether Sarlat would make sense as a base in Dordogne. Heard it can be quite jam packed on certain days and driving in/out will be a problem.

As for Limoges, I intended to make it a base to visit Oradour-sur-Glane and to also break my travel time to Amboise. Are there accommodations in Oradour??

Thanks again!

I forgot to ask, would a daytrip to Versailles from Paris be pointless after seeing the Chateaus in Loire??

I usually don't like to drive long distances when I don't have to, but twice we've driven from the Dordogne to the Loire in one "easy" day. Hunker down and drive 4 hrs to Valancay, visit, then off to Amboise.

We spend 2 months vacationing in France most years.

Stu Dudley

Versailles is a royal palace, quite different from even the pleasure chateaux of the Loire valley.

Limoges is less of a dump than implied. It has increased its pedestrian only areas in the old part of the city. In fact there are two old parts because one hill was controlled in the Middle Ages by the civil authorities and another by the church. It has an important porcelain museum, as well as a small one in the bishop's former palace specializing in Limoges enamels. For accommodations, try http://www.viamichelin.co.uk/web/Hotels

Limoges is 'ok' - certainly not a highlight. If your Day 7 is a Sunday drop it completely as it will be a ghost town and everything is closed.

Sarlat is the perfect place to base for the Dordogne. We stayed here, a short drive out of town, so we werent impacted by traffic getting in and out of town as much: http://www.les-granges-hautes.fr/

We used Sarlat as a base for our trip in 2009 and had no troubles driving in and out for day trips.
We loved Sarlat especially in the evenings. They light up the medieval buildings so beautifully.

Even if day 7 is a Sunday, won't most all other towns/villages be closed?? What I gather from most of you guys is that it's best to just stay in Sarlat and just endure the long drive to Amboise instead of making a night stopover in one of the towns/villages/cities in between?

Jamikins--that hotel looks great. How long did it take you to get into Sarlat? Will you give a Fodors review of the hotel, I.e., what were the pros and cons?

Actually, Sundays are great in the Dordogne. Many shops in Sarlat close, but that's a good time to admire the lovely architecture since it won't be obscured with umbrellas, too many tourists, and other distractions. Also a great day to take a boat trip on the Dordogne River, visit the many castles, wander through Beynac, Roque Gageac, & Domme.

The drive to the Loire goes fast - especially if you stop at Valancay along the way.

Stu Dudley

'Sarlat is the perfect place to base for the Dordogne. We stayed here, a short drive out of town, so we weren't impacted by traffic getting in and out of town as much: http://www.les-granges-hautes.fr/'

Les Granges hautes isn't a hotel, but a Chambres d'Hotes, or Bed and breakfast. It is run by a charming couple who do speak English (although Beatrice, if you are reading this, you should have stayed in my English class!) It's about 20 minutes from Sarlat. They also provide meals.

Carlux--thanks for the info. I do know the difference between a chambre d'hote and a hotel. Just a sloppy post on my part.

Hi,

I think that you are being over-ambitious with your first day - do you really want to be driving all day after what I guess is an overnight transatlantic flight with a 1 year old? I asl this as we did it once [the other way round] and we soon realised that is was a really daft idea.

instead, I would suggest doing your Normandy leg first,

Day 1: Arrive Paris, depart straight to Bayeux
Day 3-4: MSM
Day 5-7: Amboise
Day 8-12: Sarlat
Day 13: Limoges [optional]
Day 14-18: Paris

this gives you some much shorter drives at the beginning, leaving the potentially longest one [Sarlat to Paris] until that end when you have more idea of what you're doing. you could cut down the MSM staay to one night which would give you extra time in Paris or the Loire, and just stop off in Limoges rather than stay the night. [and/or drop the car off there and get the train to Paris, where you will not want to have a car].

ann, the OP is going straight to Bordeaux and picking up his rental car there on the second day.

To the OP, Is there a train direct from CDG to Bordeaux? If not, consider flying on to Bordeaux.

Last May we based in Sarlat, staying at this place, which we recommend highly: www.hotelsarlat.com. It's right on the edge of medieval Sarlat. We parked on the street and drove in and out of town with no difficulty. Caveat: we weren't in Sarlat for the Saturday market; parking, in particular, is probably more difficult then. But the Wednesday market seemed quite adequate to me.

You're planning long drives with many changes of place. How with this go over with your one-year-old? Generally, fewer, longer stops with short trips between are what's recommended for travel with children.

Would like to have your feedback on my really really really rough preliminary itinerary>>

i hadn't picked up that going straight to Bordeaux was written in tablets of stone, mimar. shame if it is, as i think that first day might be quite tough.

Ann, first day is tough but I think it's best that I just get it over with and just work my way to the furthest point away (Dordogne) from my eventual end destination (Paris). Anyway, I think that it'll be equally tiring to head straight to Bayeux after touching down in Paris so why not just endure an hour or more longer to get to Bordeaux? My original post did state that I was only picking up the car from Bordeaux on Day 2, which implied that I was looking into taking the flight or train from Paris to Bordeaux on Day 1.

Mimar, I have no idea on how my 1 year old will cope but so far, she's pretty mild tempered and not easily agitated plus she sleeps through car rides. I might err on staying in bigger cities/villages so that I will have easy access to medical help if (touch wood) anything happens to my child.

Few other questions for others:
1) Train or flight to Bordeaux from Paris CDG, which is more convenient? I'll be taking the red-eye flight from Singapore and will reach Paris early in the morning so jet-lag should be less of an issue to me than those travelling from the States. However, I'll most likely arrive in Terminal 1 and I understand the TGV station is in Terminal 2.
2) If I drop Limoges (Day 7), should I allocate the day to Dordogne or to Normandy - perhaps add in a stop at Rouen or Honfleur? Or should I just use that day to drive towards Amboise and make stops at Oradour and Valancay?

You will burn a couple of hours when making a stop in Oradour. If not staying in Limoges, consider Poitiers and environs. One year we drove from La Roche Posay to the Périgord vert (close to Hautefort) with a brief stop at Angle-sur-l'Anglin (a plus beau village) and Saint-Savin (worth a stop), and it took us all day to reach our final destination. But we did not use any autoroute.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/sets/72157623276890499/show/

I'll be taking the red-eye flight from Singapore and will reach Paris early in the morning so jet-lag should be less of an issue to me than those travelling from the States. However, I'll most likely arrive in Terminal 1 and I understand the TGV station is in Terminal 2>>

even if you aren't driving, the train to Bordeaux will take between 4-5 hours, so you might like to look up the flights from CDG as well, though you might have to hang around a bit.

our experience with a child of same age was that we flew into Toronto after a trans-atlantic flight, arriving at about 4pm, and exited the airport into the Toronto rush-hour. we then drove for about 4 hours to our destination, and by the time we got there, we were wiped out and remained so for the next few days.

I don't know why you think that your jetlag coming from Singapore to France will be less than from a transatlantic flight, but even if that is so, if your offspring hasn't slept, you won't have either and you will be on you knees.

we wished that we were staying somewhere closer [doesn't have to be Bayeux, anywhere close would do] and I suspect that you will too.

Why not just fly to Bordeaux instead of Paris? You will have a stop somewhere in Europe but it would all be on one ticket and possibly cheaper than a train ticket or a separate flight.

I was just looking at flying into Marseille vs Paris (then taking train to Avignon)and the flight to Marseille connected in Amsterdam and was only $20 more than round trip to Paris.

<< the train to Bordeaux will take between 4-5 hours>>

Actually, it's around 3 hours, which might be just about the same as a flight, all told. And you can sometimes get PREM fares for around 25 euro.

St. Cirq, i looked at bahn.de which proved to be less reliable for once than sncf.fr .

Ann, as a reference, flying from NY-Paris should be about 7-8 hours flight time whereas from Singapore-Paris it is about 12-13 hours. A red-eye flight from Singapore will land in Paris at ~6am (Singapore local time 12pm) whereas a red-eye flight from NY will land in Paris at ~12 pm (New York local time 6am). If you take into account take off & landing, there's more time for actual shut eye for the flight coming from Singapore as compared to the flight from NY. Of course, all this goes out the window if my child refuses to sleep but I'm banking on her sticking to her sleeping routine.

Anyway, I'm leaning on taking the TGV from CDG to Bordeaux as I simply prefer land travel to air travel considering that it takes almost the same amount of time. Some have suggested I fly to Toulouse instead of Bordeaux. Is Toulouse > Bordeaux?

I've also received suggestions above on dropping the car off at Chartres before heading to Paris. Isn't that another long drive (3hours+) from Bayeux?

Of course, all this goes out the window if my child refuses to sleep but I'm banking on her sticking to her sleeping routine.>>

I hope you're right. I see that your trip is going to be roundabout next May, which makes her only about 3 months old now, so you can reckon on many changes in her and her routine in the next 9 months or so.

I too would take the train after such a flight - you can walk up and down, and relax more than in a plane. if you're heading for Sarlat, Bordeaux is closer I think [St. Cirq will know] but Toulouse is much nicer, and you can hire a car from the railway station there too.

Sorry for the delay - yes, it took about 15 - 20 mins to get to Sarlat, but its an easy and pretty drive.

We loved it and will definitely stay there again, no cons that I can think of! In fact, I just sent my cousin and her hubby there for 4-5 nights last month and it was the highlight of their month long vacation.

The breakfast was fabulous, they speak English, the provide a comprehensive list of restaurants (we loved them all) in all price ranges and distances from their property. They also do dinner a couple times a week which was great.

I cant think of a single con. Highly recommend it!

We visit the Sarlat area quite a bit. When we fly most of the way, we fly to Toulouse - not Bordeaux. The Toulouse airport is on the Dordogne side of Toulouse, while the Bordeaux airport is not. You'll have to navigate the circle road around the Bordeaux. During commute time it is difficult. I also thing the drive from Toulouse to Sarlat is easier.

If we train from CDG, we take it to Bordeaux.

We returned a car at the Toulouse train station 2 weeks ago.

Stu Dudley

Thanks Jamikins. It sounds wonderful! Now I just need to decide whether we stay there or in Sarlat.

Seconding Stu's recommendation of Toulouse airport vs Bordeaux airport if your destination is Sarlat. Much simpler drive, prettier, and you don't have to deal with getting through or around the city when leaving the airport.

Ok, after months of reading and planning whenever I have the time off from work and from helping out with my child, I've kinda finalized my itinerary - already booked flight tickets. Will skip Normandy this time and extend my stays to 22 days from the original 18 days. Here's the revised itinerary:

Day 1: Arrive Paris, depart straight to Toulouse via Air France
Day 2: Toulouse
Day 3: Carcassonne
Day 4&5: Albi
Day 6: Rocamadour
Day 7-13: Sarlat
Day 14-16: Amboise
Day 17-22: Paris
Day 23: Depart to Singapore

Will rent a car in Toulouse on Day 3 and will drop it off on Day 17 when we make our way to Paris. My wife agreed to drop MSM provided we go to Carcassonne and stay the night.

Some concerns or questions:
1) Estimated time of arrival in Paris CDG Terminal 1 at 7:20am via Singapore Airlines. Taking Air France flight to Toulouse at 9:35am in Terminal 2F. Is that enough time??
2) I'll be in Carcassonne on Sunday. Being that it's a touristy place, I'm assuming shops and restaurants will be open?
3) Is it advisable to get into Albi after 2pm since it's a Monday? Perhaps take a scenic ride making stops along the way from Carcassonne to Albi
4) I contacted Font de Gaume regarding reservations. Received response stating that they no longer take reservations. Anyone else can confirm that this is true?

Any comments or suggestions are welcomed

Thanks in advance.

>> Is it advisable to get into Albi after 2pm since it's a Monday? Perhaps take a scenic ride making stops along the way from Carcassonne to Albi<<

I would spend the entire day exploring the region - Conques, Gorges de l'Aveyron, St Antonin Noble Val, Bruniquel. Albi itself is only a half-day visit (IMO) so why not see it at its best when all the shops are open (they all close for lunch too).

Stu Dudley

I'm so happy to see the positive comments about Les Granges Hautes near Sarlat. We just reserved one of their two cottages for our upcoming April trip. Beatrice has been very friendly and responsive during the reservation process, and I'm looking forward to our stay.

You are going to have such a wonderful trip!

I would suggest one small tweak - spend 2 days in Toulouse (wonderful city with plenty to keep one busy for that amount of time) and cut Albi to 1 day (very well worth seeing, but there isn't that much to see/do there).

<I contacted Font de Gaume regarding reservations. Received response stating that they no longer take reservations. Anyone else can confirm that this is true?>

Yes. It is true. It is discussed elsewhere on the forum currently. The cave is in danger of being shut down. In order to have a chance at tickets you must arrive at the cave first thing in the morning and hope they have tickets available for later in the day. There are other caves in the area. Lascaux II has been recommended also as an alternative.

kja, I'll be getting into Toulouse by noon and will leave Toulouse late on Day 3 when I leave for Carcassonne, so in fact I have 2 full days to explore Toulouse. Thought that Albi could be used as a base to explore the regions around. In fact, my original plan was to spend 3 days in Albi but I decided to cut it by a day and allocated it to Rocamadour instead so that we don't have to waste time commuting to Rocamadour from Sarlat.

Stu, thanks for suggestion. With a 1 year old in tow, I realize it's not as ideal to do 1 night stays.. I wanted to split Albi from 3 days to one in St Cirq and another in Rocamadour but decided against it coz of child. So I'll stay 2 nights in Albi and use the 2nd day I have to explore the nearby villages.

michele, thanks for the confirmation. Guess I have to get up early. Was originally planning on going to FdG on Sunday but I think it's better to do it on a weekday now. Do you know the times for the English tours?

You can write to Font de Gaume, but you will get an automatic response saying that they are no longer selling tickets in advance. They start selling at 9.30, FOR THAT DAY ONLY and you must get there some time ahead of that. Hard to know which day would be better, Sunday or weekday. I think there will be a long lineup whenever you go.

You will have to ask at the desk for an English tour - even when they have been scheduled in the past, you weren't guaranteed to get one, depending on staffing that particular day. I think you will find that you'll need to take whatever is available. I think there are only about 90 people allowed now - used to be 200, and many websites still say that, as they havent been updated.

Lascaux II is well worth seeing. Many people don't want to go because it's 'a copy' However, it's an extremely well done exact replica of the best parts of Lascaux. (The region is working on a full replica of all of Lascaux, but has been hampered by withdrawal of funds as part of the government's austerity measures. They say they will continue, but hard to know when it will be finished)

Lascaux II is much easier to get into, as there are tours every 20 minutes. English ones are usually around 11 and 2.30. Usually. Again, need to check, by email or by phone once you arrive.

I would worry about that transfer at CDG, especially as you are arriving at one terminal and have to transfer to the other within 2 hours - very little time IMO for that; CDG can be incredibly backed up in the early morning. And I wouldn't be too sure about Font-de-Gaume, either, as even if you get there early in the morning, there are no guarantees.

Carlux, I plan on visiting Lascaux II, FdG and Padirac (from Rocamadour). Should I drop FdG and do Pech Merle instead? If so I'll most likely head there during my 2nd day in Albi. Does Pech Merle take advance bookings? Would it make sense for me to spend my day traveling to PM instead of visiting the nearby villages that Stu mentioned?

StCirq, I don't know if I have better alternatives. My flight from Singapore-Paris will take 12-13 hours and the only other flight leaving for Toulouse from CDG immediately after 9:35am is 12:45pm. Not ideal with a child in tow. Other option is to travel to Orly and catch the 10:45am or 11:55am flight to Toulouse. Probably not ideal as well? I think I read that it takes about 1 hour to travel from CDG to Orly.

Padirac is much easier to get into. They take, I think, 700 people a day - it's a much larger cave than Font de Gaume. Interesting, as it combines stalactites, stalagmites, etc. with paintings. Just not as many paintings as in the Dordgone caves. They usually take bookings in advance, and you can get in fairly easily.

Whether you should do this rather than see the vilalges in the area is up to you. Conques, St Antonin, etc are all very interesting. The reality is that you will never see half of what is available in the time you have. (We've lived in the Perigord for 18 years, and still havent seen everything) You just have to choose

a vote here for both Padirac and Lascaux II. both worth whatever effort it takes to get into them.

Sorry, correction to my earlier note. I meant to say the "Pech Merle is easier to get into." I'm on holiday in Cape Town now and I think my brain is a bit mushy. All of my note was regarding Pech Merle.

Padirac is a completely different type of cave - very deep, with river through the middle. Interesting, but not like Pech Merle, Lascaux or Font de Gaume.

Padirac has paintings? Admittedly it's been a few years since I last visited, but I have been there a number of times and don't recall anything but rock formations and, of course, the underground boat ride.

agreed that Padirac has no paintings, but it's stupendous nevertheless.

I guess I'll make that decision on whether to head to Pech Merle when I'm in Albi.. I originally wanted to skip Padirac but since I'm staying the night in Rocamadour, I'll pay Padirac a visit in the morning. They allow 1 year olds in cave & boat rides?

Will probably have more questions when I plan the Dordogne itinerary in more detail.. will post them here when I do.

5h - here's the link to the Gouffre:

http://www.gouffre-de-padirac.getaticket.com/Information.aspx

There's nothing to say that children aren't permitted.

it's a terrific website BTW - loads to whet your appetite.

Well, the website says children 0 to 4 are free, so I assume you can take a 1-year-old.

Someone has to stand up for Limoges! Lots of info on Limoges here: ZoomOnLimoges

It's actually a beautiful old city, and surrounded by stunning countryside. I suppose it depends entirely on what you like to do.

Agree entirely about Oradour sur Glane - if you stay in Limoges you are very close. It's a very poignant and thought-provoking place to visit.

Unfortunately I won't be stopping by at Oradour this time as the drive from Sarlat to Amboise is long enough as it is. I originally chose Limoges as a night stop to break my drive into half and I won't know which city/village to cut from my latest itinerary to accommodate that. So I'm gonna take Stu's advice n just drive straight to Amboise.

Quick question: Wife thinks its dangerous to canoe with our 1 year old. Do the rental companies allow 1 year olds on in the first place??

Wife thinks its dangerous to canoe with our 1 year old. Do the rental companies allow 1 year olds on in the first place??>>

no idea but i wouldn't do it. What about capsizing? you may be an excellent canoeist, but what about other people/boats/dogs etc.

I'm with your wife.

I agree with your wife.

You might want to do this as an alternative, it gets you out on the water and looks a lot safer for your little one.

http://www.gabarres.com/us/gabare-boat-trip.htm

When we canoed down the Dordogne, there were a lot of first-timers trying to figure out how to guide the canoes (actually, I think they were kayaks - not canoes - but I was a first timer also). Many people rowed into rocks or shallow water and they had to get out of the boat & push it off the rocks. My wife had no idea now to steer a boat. I think I had a Boy Scout merit badge which I obtained at Scout camp one summer - which was probably the last time I tried to row a boat. I told her to sit at the front of the boat and not move a mussel - except to take pictures (which she did). I was in the back with a two-paddle oar. When she wanted to take a picture of a castle along the way, I often had to maneuver the boat in a circle so she wouldn't have to turn her torso around & dump us both in the water. I would be worried about a 1 year old. It is my observation (after spending over 3 years total vacationing in France) that the French are less aggressive about "warning" people about "dangers" than we are in the USA. I guess we can thank lawyers about that.

Also, do the boat trip in the morning so the sun will be at your back - not in your face.

Stu Dudley

I've canoed and kayaked on the Dordogne dozens of times. I wouldn't do it with a 1-year-old, even though all the rental companies will outfit you with appropriately sized floating devices (I doubt they have ones that really would be the right size for a 1-year-old, though). They might not even allow a 1-year-old, I don't know.

My son, about 14 years old at the time, and I were kayaking once on the river, and got caught after a heavy rainstorm in some light rapids, and his kayak flipped over and he got caught under it. I had to jump out and get him out of his kayak, and then the kayak filled up with water and sank (in shallow water). We managed to get it and my (still floating) kayak up against a rock wall on the south side of the river; my son managed to climb up onto a boat landing ramp with my kayak, while I floundered around in the water trying to get the water out of his kayak. There was, to boot, a huge water snake slithering around my bare feet. NOT a fun moment! And it was August, with a million people swimming, canoeing, and kayaking right past us, and not a soul bothered to help us out.

Take a gabarre ride.