1. Get a map.
2. Buy a guidebook to Europe, for example The Rough Guide to First-Time Europe
3. Come back with sensible questions. You will receive good advice then.

Hi Melissa

Welcome to Fodors - everyone here is full of helpful advice and knowledge, so you should receive some excellent advice re your travel plans.

If you only have 3 or 3 1/2 weeks, then I think you'd be stretching it to see all the places on your list comfortably.

You plan to fly Sydney to New York - is this part of the 3 week time span? If you aren't going to stay in NY, I think you'd be better off flying directly into one of the European capitals to save time.

Flying that distance from Australia you'll be taking a full day out of either end of your journey, then each time you move from one of your choice of cities you need to allow another day, by the time you check out, use whatever transport you choose, then check in to new accommodation - so that's 4 more days gone - so nearly a week out of your 3 has disappeared, before you've seen anything!

Google maps is great for looking at distances between places, webjet is great for comparing air travel options, seat61.com is excellent for advice about train travel in Europe.

Just a tip - on Fodors you only use the 'trip report' tag (that little orange book symbol) if you are writing about your travel experiences, not if you're asking for help with your plans.

Happy planning, Di

Thanx for your advice and tip (di2315)

of course you can tell im a newbie!

Regarding NYC, we wanted to stop over there for a couple of days to experience it in summer, as we were just there in november and freezing our butts off! but i think you right, we should probably go straight to Europe from here and skip NYC. As we only have 3 to 3 and a half weeks max.

And i hadn't even though of how many days we would loose with all the flying and travel.

I will deffinately look at the website's you recommended.

Thanx Heaps. cheers.

melissa ayala,

I actually think you will probably find that most people who post on the Europe board of this website are NOT full of helpful advice and knowledge, and you are interested in doing things they will probably make fun of. Just a heads up. If you get tired of it, there are other message boards with more knowledgeable people and nicer attitudes.

You can use the booking.com website to check what hotel prices are for the type of hotel you are interested in. You should do that soonest so you can see if they trip you are contemplating in affordable.

Regarding travel within Europe, whether it is cheaper or quicker to train or fly between some destinations isn't always based on how close the destinations are to each other on a map. If often depends on how far in advance you book (for both trains and planes) and what fast trains or cheap airlines service those routes.

Read up on the cities you have chosen. Figure out how long you would need to stay in each of them to see the museums and churches and historical sights that most interest you in each city. See how well it fits into 3 weeks.

This message forum is specifically for people planning multi-country trips to Europe, who are asking for help about travel logistics and selecting destinations.

http://www.frommers.com/community/forum.cfm/europe/general-multi-country

Ttt

A couple of notes:

You need to figure out what YOU want to see - and then how long it will take - that will tell you how much time you need where (which I suspect is longer than you think). For a first trip I would want 5 days (6 nights) in Paris and the same in Rome - with 3 days (4 nights) each in Venice and Florence and at lest 3 days with a rental car in Tuscany (this can vary tremendously depending on how many towns you want to see).

Don;t know prices in Australia - but hotels in major cities in europe are generally as high or higher than those in NY. for a 5* hotel you will need to spend US$ 700 to $800 per night at least. You may find deals for less - but don't count on it. True 4* hotels (european hotel star rating are often higher than they would be in the US) will be more in the $350 to $400 per night - although there are more of these and it can be easier to find deals.

You can do this trip with 21/22 nights on the ground.

Consider skipping NYC. Fly open jaw, Paris and leave from Rome.

So, 1. Paris 5/6 nights.

2. Fly or overnight train, Paris to Venice, 3 nights.

3. Train to Florence, 3 nights.

4. When leaving Florence rent a car and spend 4 nights in the Tuscany/Umbria area.

5. Drop car off, perhaps at the Rome airport. Train or cab and visit Rome, 5 nights.

6. On this site you can check 4 and 5 star hotels for pricing.

www.booking.com

zeppole: "I actually think you will probably find that most people who post on the Europe board of this website are NOT full of helpful advice and knowledge, and you are interested in doing things they will probably make fun of. Just a heads up. If you get tired of it, there are other message boards with more knowledgeable people and nicer attitudes."

Maybe take your own advice and post elsewhere - oh wait, you can't because you've been banned from most of them . . .

melissa_ayala: You can do a lot of your wish list in 3-ish weeks but not much else. The stop over in NYC would probably eat up a minimum of 4 or 5 days including travel time. So you are looking at 3 weeks max in Europe. Paris, Venice, Florence and Rome would fill 3 weeks. Or you could squeeze in maybe one other short stop. NYC > Paris. Fly Paris > Venice. Train Venice > Florence. Train Florence > Rome. Fly home from Rome.

The transatlantic flight uses a day, the flight home a full day, and the intra-Europe travel will eat up another couple of days. So you have less than 3 weeks free on the ground. I wouldn't try to do more than Paris, Venice, Florence and Rome myself.

janisj; I see what you mean, I had not read those comments.

Definitely ZEPPOLE

Paris, Venice, Rome, Tuscany, Florence and other places.

My suggestion:
Fly into Venice – Emirates leave Melbourne around 10:00 PM, arrives Venice around 2:00 PM the next day. (We are doing this in seven weeks time). Sydney to Venice is probably similar, and Venice is a good way to get over your jet-lag.

Four nights in Venice, then train (takes 2 hours) to Florence.

Four nights in Florence

Hire a car, spend say four nights touring Tuscany

De-hire car in Florence, take train to Rome (takes 2 hours)

Five nights in Rome

Fly or train to Paris

Five nights in Paris. (I don’t know Paris much at all – visited in 1975!)

Fly home from Paris.

That’s about 22 nights. I think that New York takes a lot out of your trip, a lot of extra miles in the air for a few nights on the ground.. Something that you need to know – European trains are much better than you may be used to in Australia.

www.venere.com is a good place to look at hotels.

Is it against Fodor's rules (or merely impolite) to comment that most people on this website/forum are not full of helpful advice and knowledge and then refer the OP to a competitor of Fodor's???

What peter suggested is just the opposite of my suggestion. Works either way.

P.S Jean, we agree and we know the person and the many fodor names. So easy to identify with the attitude.

melissa_ayala, I don't think anyone has pointed out that the number of stars given hotels in Italy does not relate to the room rate or even the level of quality or luxury. The number of stars relates to the number and type of amenities offered, some/many of which may be of little or no interest to you. Such as a business conference center, disability-accessible rooms/bathrooms, parking lot, room service, on-site gym or spa facilities, etc.

You mentioned wanting to visit NYC in summer, so what month is this trip? Could you take the trip out of summer, say in mid-September?

A new low for the contrarian !
Janis says it best--if you do not like it here just go away, but do not bite the hand of Fodors who provides this free Forum.

jean; Much of your comments are true. But the OP did ask for 4 or 5 star hotels.

So this is where we agree. My wife and I do not need all the amenities offfered at the more upscale hotels. Nor would we pay the price.

But on booking.com you can check 3 star and find very central hotels that are very nice.

iris1745, I know the OP asked for 4-5 star hotels, but I was pointing out that what that means to her may not match up with what she finds or even necessarily wants in Italy.

melissa_ayala, you should look for hotels with good reviews, in your budget range, in the location you want, and with the specific amenities you want/need. Personally, I don't pay much attention to the number of stars. We've stayed in 4-star hotels that weren't as charming or comfortable as other hotels nearby that have 3 stars. Disclaimer: I don't sleep any better if the bed linens are Frette but there's too much noise room-to-room or from outside or the room is too hot or cold.

Melissa, welcome. Save NYC for another trip. I don't know where you are based by I do know that Sydney-NYC is a 24 hour trip and then I think it's another 9 hours or so to Europe (I could be wrong about that bit). NYC is fabulous and worthy of a lengthier trip.

There have been some recent comments on Fodor's about Australians trying to cram too much into their overseas trips and yours is another example.

Would you consider flying into Rome and concentrate on Italy. There is so much to see in Italy that you can easily fill 3 weeks. If you do want to see Paris then include it by all means but it is worth allocating 4 or 5 nights. Try to avoid one night stops, at least 2 or 3 nights and fewer destinations will result in a much more memorable trip.

And please ignore Golden Autumn's comments, she seems to have flipped out completely!

And jean; If you read my second paragraph, I agreed with you.

And also my third paragraph for 3 star hotels. There is no problem with what you are saying and what I am saying.

On booking.com you can find many reviews that for me are more reliable the TA.

And jean; If you read my second paragraph, I agreed with you.

And also my third paragraph for 3 star hotels. There is no problem with what you are saying and what I am saying.

On booking.com you can find many reviews that for me are more reliable the TA.

Thanx so much everyone for your kind tips!

Its so refreshing to see how people can be so generous with their suggestions and advice, we really appreciate all the effort.

After reading some of the comments i think i may need to skip NYC but i'd rather put more time into Europe as we have never been there before.

By the way, has anyone flown AIR CHINA? they have such cheap flights from sydney to paris but i wasn't sure if we should go ahead with them :/

Anywho, thanx eveyone. xxx

Hi Melissa,
We recently had three weeks in Europe - with Emirates from Melbourne to London; Eurostar to Paris; overnight train to Venice; train to Florence; train t Rome; fly home.

I am confident that 3 weeks will keep you busy, but is enough time to have a good look at your European destinations - but I'd definitely skip NY this trip.

I looked at some of the cheap airlines - Air China; Southern China Airlines;Royal Brunei; Korean Air - the problem I found was that many of them were limited in destinations in Europe that they flew in and out of (we didn't want to waste time and money backtracking), or there were looonnngg layovers required to connect flights for the onward journey (again - it would have wasted precious time).

Peter's proposed schedule looks good - and it is definitely worth looking at Emirates - lots of flexibility in and out of Europe via their very busy hub in Dubai (which could also make an interesting stopover on the way home if you have the time!