Keep in mind I primarily want to see castles and the general countryside. I'm not really planning on spending time in any of the cities, pretty much just passing through.

Also, I'm very much OK with driving the distance -- I've driven across the US numerous times, I even completed one 10,000 mile road trip in a week.

First thing to consider is the cost of a 1-way rental from the UK to Spain, especially with a right-hand drive UK car.

For a 3-4 week rental you should look into one of the various lease/buy back programs some car co's offer. I don't know much about those, so perhaps others can help you out.

Generally I'd recommend an open jaw ticket such as you are planning, but for this type of trip consider flying into/out of somewhere central like France.

Sounds like an adventure - I wish you a great trip.

hi mcjonns, it must be the season for people planning improbably difficult trips!

first of all, are you prepared to pay a big premium for a one-way rental? because that's what you'll get with renting in London/amsterdam and returning in Madrid. you might think at least of renting when you get to Amsterdam - you'll cut down the cost of the ferry/train considerably that way, unless there are some castles you were thinking of taking in between London and amsterdam? [Dover does spring to mind, and possibly Scotney, but I don't think i'd cross the atlantic to see it].

secondly, have you worked out what sort of mileage you are looking at? Viamichelin or Mappy can both do this for you, but it looks a pretty long way to me, even in 4 weeks let alone 3. and what castles are you looking at in venice? or Milan? most of your places are cities. do you intend to stay in the cities and use them as bases? in which case you will find a car a real pain.

in fact, your itinerary mentions only one specific castle, Neuschwanstein. of course there are many more around Munich, but precious few in Venice. you may have more on your list, but how finely tuned is your itinerary?

thirdly, I suspect that you have no idea of the driving times that touring Europe will demand. it is often a lot harder work than driving long distances in the US, and can take you much longer than you could imagine.

J62, thanks! I have considered the costs and I'm comfortable with them.

annhig, improbably difficult trips are just another person's adventure If it was easy, I wouldn't want any part in it -- but to each their own

I've already calculated costs for a one-way rental, gas, tolls, etc.

I mentioned Neuschwanstein specifically because there are no major cities near it as a reference point, all the other castles are close enough to the cities mentioned that I didn't identify them.

It is roughly 2,387-ish miles

I don't see how driving time is any different in the US than Europe. 50 MPH here is 50 MPH there. granted, I plan on stopping a lot in Europe, but in my time I've driving over 300,000 miles in the US in total. Google maps estimates that the driving time is 2 days and 15 hours -- which, over 3-4 weeks, seems reasonable.

If I'm wrong then please point out how! I want to factor that in correctly in advance instead of be surprised on the trip! haha

A righthand drive car is awkward on the continent. Every time you get to a highway toll booth, you're on the wrong side.

You have a number of cities in your itinerary. Cars are a handicap in cities. You have to pay to park them. And you have to deal with dense city traffic. In some Italian cities the central area is limited to local drivers. You get ticketed if you drive your rental car in there. (Search the forum for ZTL.)

You can time your driving using a site like www.viamichelin.com or Google maps.

Since you're specifically interested in castles, maybe do some more research. There are a lot of castles in Scotland, for example.

Mimar, thanks for that specifically helpful information!

I do want to go to Scotland, however I can't visit as many overall castles if I went there. Plus, my favorite castles are along the areas I mentioned.

I don't plan on visiting each city so much as just pass through them. Perhaps stop to eat and visit a shop or two, but primarily I would spend time in the towns around the castles.

This may sound harsh -- but since you are not concerned about the cost, already know what you want to see/where you want to go, think the drive is totally doable . . . and are prepared to drive a rhd car . . . you probably won't get any useful advice here. Are you sure you've found an agency who will let you drop a RHD car in Spain?

"I don't plan on visiting each city so much as just pass through them."

"passing through" some of those cities will take literally hours w/o even stopping.

(Your plan is daft/impractical/inefficient/not to say thousands of $$ more expensive than it needs to be. Plus you'll be driving through hundreds of miles w/ practically no castles. It is more a laundry list than a 'plan)

but it sure sounds like fun to me!

I've driven a rhd car on the continent and lhd in UK. It's slightly more difficult (line of sight and parallel parking) at least for me, and a little disconcerting to sit in the front passenger seat.

We do it 2-3 times a year but when you're planning to cover as much ground as possible, why incur the extra aggro? If you do keep the rhd car, be sure the local Spanish agency will take it back.

>I even completed one 10,000 mile road trip in a week.

You're my hero. 10000 miles in 7 days (168 hours) equals an average of 59.5 miles per hour with 24 hours of driving per day. If otoh you sleep 8 hours per day and go to the loo every now and then your down to 89 miles per hour on average.
I've never done Cannonball, but I'd love to.

I did NYC to Texas in a week once.

So why would you want to drive down to Spain from London? This is rather boring most of the trip. And the rhd is a real pain on the continent. I would start in Paris and go east, throug Switzerland, drive the best of the mountain passes, gr. St. Bernhard, Stilfser Joch, Dolomites, side trip to Venice, Klagenfurt, Graz, Lake Neusiedl, from Budapest east on the M3 to Romania right to the Moldovan border, from there north throught the Carpathian mountains bear watching into Slovakia further north through the forests of the eastern Beskids along the White Russian border. From there I'd go west thruogh northern Germany, Netherlands and Belgium back to Paris.

That would be a road trip!

Driving in Europe is slower than in the States except on super highways because one does not have the same open spaces. Every few km. you will hit a town; driving in the mountains is generally slower. Unless you actually used Google maps or viaMichelin to get driving distances and times, I suspect that your estimates in terms of territory covered are very optimistic.

I do not know of any car hire company based in the UK that will allow you to take car on a ferry to mainland Europe. However I could be wrong and is so can someone add a link here please.
You list cities and no countryside.
For instance- why go to Amsterdam then onto Frankfurt? Take this route and you will miss the Ardennes and Luxembourg too.
I bet others will also come along with alternatives to this advisable plan you have.

I'm curious as to which castles you want to visit. Would you mind posting your list?

Please take this advice from someone who has done numerous road trips through europe and loves driving there.

Renting a car in the UK and the driving it all over the continent is a really bad idea (even if the company will let you) since you will be driving wrong-side drive for almost the entire trip. And since you mention only London not sure why you need a car there at all - since the Tower of London and Windsor Castle are both seen more easily by public transit. (NOt sure what other castles are in/near London - unless you mean palaces rather than castles -which is a whole different thing.)

As a bigger questions not sure how you are defining castles - or what your interest is. But there is a huge difference between a "real" castle - a fortress built for military purposes (usually before the 16th century), a palace (a huge building built primarily for pleasure/entertainment from the 17th century on) and the plain fake (Neuschwanstein was built by Mad King Ludwig in the 1860s - and is no more real than the Princess's Castle at Disney World).

Finally - your itinerary makes no sense. You are bouncing around like a ping pong ball - rather than following any sensible route.

Agree - if you list the castles you want to see people can help you get it organized - but although you say you don;t want to see cities - just "castles" t's not apparent from your list what places you actually want to see:

Castle?
Palaces?
Other large houses?

I am going to presume that the 10,000 miles in a week is an exaggeration or a typo - if not we are being trolled.

So, if this is real, why do people continue to challenge the OP when he says he has looked into the logistics of the one-way rental, including all the costs? It's his trip and he has made it abundantly clear he knows all the downsides. There is no need to "set him right", is there?

The mileage, roughly, is about 6,100 km, or 3,850 miles. Obviously, the actual mileage will vary a little as the OP does not intend to go into the cities but to visit castles along the route. That is about 37 % more than the 2,800 miles from New York to LA, or the equivalent of driving on to Portland from LA. Doable in 25 days by someone who loves to drive? Absolutely - so how about anyone still trying to convert (teach/guide/assist/inform - whatever makes you feel good about your efforts) the OP to your preferred way of traveling.

I tried a little rerouting to shorten the mileage and you can take about 200 miles off by trying this;

http://g.co/maps/csems

Now, I enjoyed this as an exercise regardless of whether we are being trolled, but I would appreciate it if the OP clarified the 10,000 mile 1 week road trip declaration as well as confirming exactly what type of advice they are looking for considering how well the locations and logistics have been planned to meet the goals of a European castle tour.

Is it suggestions of castles to see on the route of which you might not be aware? lodging suggestions? General comments about traveling in Europe

One suggestion that has not been made that might save some money and provide for more convenience would be to rent and drop one vehicle in the UK (or even stick to the rail for that short compact portion of well steeled England) and then pick up another on the continent. The drop charges could well be less and you are back in a left hand drive vehicle for 90% of the travel.

aramis: "Obviously, the actual mileage will vary a little as the OP does not intend to go into the cities"

I think you missed the bit where he said he does plan on going into most of those cities.

>>I don't plan on visiting each city so much as just pass through them. Perhaps stop to eat and visit a shop or two . . .<<

But go ahead, humor him

“janisj on Dec 18, 11 at 10:32am

This may sound harsh -- but since you are not concerned about the cost, already know what you want to see/where you want to go, think the drive is totally doable . . . and are prepared to drive a rhd car . . . you probably won't get any useful advice here. Are you sure you've found an agency who will let you drop a RHD car in Spain?

"I don't plan on visiting each city so much as just pass through them."

"passing through" some of those cities will take literally hours w/o even stopping.

(Your plan is daft/impractical/inefficient/not to say thousands of $$ more expensive than it needs to be. Plus you'll be driving through hundreds of miles w/ practically no castles. It is more a laundry list than a 'plan)”
~~~ ~~
I understand from reading that traffic is congested, but having driven through LA, NYC, Phily, Dallas, Boston, etc. Not preferable, but I still want to.
While it is a laundry list, yes, I really enjoy long road trips. It will countryside I’ve never seen. I’ve driven across highway 70, 40, 5, etc in the US numerous times (40 I’ve done thirty-five times, from California to N. Carolina, then back). I still love the drives.

“Cathinjoetown on Dec 18, 11 at 11:09am
I've driven a rhd car on the continent and lhd in UK. It's slightly more difficult (line of sight and parallel parking) at least for me, and a little disconcerting to sit in the front passenger seat.

We do it 2-3 times a year but when you're planning to cover as much ground as possible, why incur the extra aggro? If you do keep the rhd car, be sure the local Spanish agency will take it back.”
~~~~~
Thank you for the suggestion! I’ll look into that.

“logos999 on Dec 18, 11 at 11:18am
>I even completed one 10,000 mile road trip in a week.

You're my hero. 10000 miles in 7 days (168 hours) equals an average of 59.5 miles per hour with 24 hours of driving per day. If otoh you sleep 8 hours per day and go to the loo every now and then your down to 89 miles per hour on average.
I've never done Cannonball, but I'd love to.

I did NYC to Texas in a week once.

So why would you want to drive down to Spain from London? This is rather boring most of the trip. And the rhd is a real pain on the continent. I would start in Paris and go east, throug Switzerland, drive the best of the mountain passes, gr. St. Bernhard, Stilfser Joch, Dolomites, side trip to Venice, Klagenfurt, Graz, Lake Neusiedl, from Budapest east on the M3 to Romania right to the Moldovan border, from there north throught the Carpathian mountains bear watching into Slovakia further north through the forests of the eastern Beskids along the White Russian border. From there I'd go west thruogh northern Germany, Netherlands and Belgium back to Paris.

That would be a road trip!”
~~~~~~~~~~
To be fair, logos999, I didn’t do the drive alone. It was 4 drivers switching off. Being that we had a radar detector I think we averaged over 59.5 MPH
My trip is solely designed on the castles I want to see. I like your road trip, and I did consider Romania, but my goal is castles, castles, castles.

“Michael on Dec 18, 11 at 11:46am
Driving in Europe is slower than in the States except on super highways because one does not have the same open spaces. Every few km. you will hit a town; driving in the mountains is generally slower. Unless you actually used Google maps or via Michelin to get driving distances and times, I suspect that your estimates in terms of territory covered are very optimistic.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Like I said in a post or two ago, I got that information from google maps. However, I forgot about the edition to Rome – so it’s farther than previously quoted.

“ribeirasacra on Dec 18, 11 at 11:47am
I do not know of any car hire company based in the UK that will allow you to take car on a ferry to mainland Europe. However I could be wrong and is so can someone add a link here please.
You list cities and no countryside.
For instance- why go to Amsterdam then onto Frankfurt? Take this route and you will miss the Ardennes and Luxembourg too.
I bet others will also come along with alternatives to this advisable plan you have.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My logic for choosing this route was based off of castles I want to see and the assumption that larger/better highways would exist between major cities. But the primary/overriding goal was castles. Instead of list each castle, which I could do, I was just naming the major cities near each castle I want to see.

“isabel on Dec 18, 11 at 12:32pm
I'm curious as to which castles you want to visit. Would you mind posting your list?”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The main ones are (in the rough order that I would visit):
England:
Windsor
Bodiam
Dover

Netherlands:
Muiderslot
Germany:
Burg Eltz
Marksburg
Burg Rheinstein
Schloss Bürresheim
Neuschwanstein
Switzerland:
Château de Chillon
San Marino
The three tours: Guaita, Cesta, and Montale
France:
Cité de Carcassonne
Spain:
Alcazar de Segovia
“nytraveler on Dec 18, 11 at 12:48pm
Please take this advice from someone who has done numerous road trips through europe and loves driving there.

Renting a car in the UK and the driving it all over the continent is a really bad idea (even if the company will let you) since you will be driving wrong-side drive for almost the entire trip. And since you mention only London not sure why you need a car there at all - since the Tower of London and Windsor Castle are both seen more easily by public transit. (NOt sure what other castles are in/near London - unless you mean palaces rather than castles -which is a whole different thing.)

As a bigger questions not sure how you are defining castles - or what your interest is. But there is a huge difference between a "real" castle - a fortress built for military purposes (usually before the 16th century), a palace (a huge building built primarily for pleasure/entertainment from the 17th century on) and the plain fake (Neuschwanstein was built by Mad King Ludwig in the 1860s - and is no more real than the Princess's Castle at Disney World).

Finally - your itinerary makes no sense. You are bouncing around like a ping pong ball - rather than following any sensible route.

Agree - if you list the castles you want to see people can help you get it organized - but although you say you don;t want to see cities - just "castles" t's not apparent from your list what places you actually want to see:

Castle?
Palaces?
Other large houses?”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Medieval fortresses. Review the list above. I listed the cities because I was thinking that the major roads would be between major cities. If that’s wrong, please do let me know.

“Aramis on Dec 18, 11 at 12:53pm
I am going to presume that the 10,000 miles in a week is an exaggeration or a typo - if not we are being trolled.

So, if this is real, why do people continue to challenge the OP when he says he has looked into the logistics of the one-way rental, including all the costs? It's his trip and he has made it abundantly clear he knows all the downsides. There is no need to "set him right", is there?

The mileage, roughly, is about 6,100 km, or 3,850 miles. Obviously, the actual mileage will vary a little as the OP does not intend to go into the cities but to visit castles along the route. That is about 37 % more than the 2,800 miles from New York to LA, or the equivalent of driving on to Portland from LA. Doable in 25 days by someone who loves to drive? Absolutely - so how about anyone still trying to convert (teach/guide/assist/inform - whatever makes you feel good about your efforts) the OP to your preferred way of traveling.

I tried a little rerouting to shorten the mileage and you can take about 200 miles off by trying this;

http://g.co/maps/csems

Now, I enjoyed this as an exercise regardless of whether we are being trolled, but I would appreciate it if the OP clarified the 10,000 mile 1 week road trip declaration as well as confirming exactly what type of advice they are looking for considering how well the locations and logistics have been planned to meet the goals of a European castle tour.

Is it suggestions of castles to see on the route of which you might not be aware? lodging suggestions? General comments about traveling in Europe

One suggestion that has not been made that might save some money and provide for more convenience would be to rent and drop one vehicle in the UK (or even stick to the rail for that short compact portion of well steeled England) and then pick up another on the continent. The drop charges could well be less and you are back in a left hand drive vehicle for 90% of the travel.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for your info! Very helpful. I have revised the route many times, but only recently did I include the bit into Italy – so yes, it is closer to 3,600 miles – my apologies for forgetting there.
10k miles on one trip was not a type, nor an exciting prospect at the time, but I am incredibly glad I did it. With 3 other drives it was a heck of a trip!
What I am looking for is what I don’t know: All I know is what I’ve experienced in the US. I don’t know the European transit system, difficulties in travelling through various countries, who knows! Anything I’ve not mentioned that comes to your mind is what I want to know. I’m not asking for touristy suggestions, what to see, where to eat, where to sleep, but general travel information – things about navigating through the areas mentioned that a US citizen and novice European traveler might be clueless about.
Several people, yourself included, have given great suggestions that I’ve not considered.

One suggestion that has not been made that might save some money and provide for more convenience would be to rent and drop one vehicle in the UK (or even stick to the rail for that short compact portion of well steeled England) and then pick up another on the continent. The drop charges could well be less and you are back in a left hand drive vehicle for 90% of the travel.>>

aramis - I think i did mention that but it's worth repeating.

but i think that we are banging our head against a brick wall - the OP is so certain that he's right the only mystery is why he bothered to post his query here in the first place.

"janisj on Dec 18, 11 at 10:32am

(Your plan is daft/impractical/inefficient/not to say thousands of $$ more expensive than it needs to be. Plus you'll be driving through hundreds of miles w/ practically no castles. It is more a laundry list than a 'plan)"
~~~~
Do you know of a better way to get from one castle to another other than driving to each one? Please, do tell.

And no, I can't afford a private jet or helicopter.

"but i think that we are banging our head against a brick wall - the OP is so certain that he's right the only mystery is why he bothered to post his query here in the first place."

~~~

Did you bother actually reading each post fully?

"Did you bother actually reading each post fully?"

Yes-actually. And I 100% agree w/ annhig. You are set on this crazy idea and have a come back to every single post. You will do what you want. But those responding either live in Europe or have visited MANY times and have driven thousands of miles while there. We are trying to HELP you, but you don't seem at all interested

As w/ Annhig - my head is getting sore from bashing it against that brick wall . . . .

Did you bother actually reading each post fully?>>

did you, mjconns?


Do you know of a better way to get from one castle to another other than driving to each one? Please, do tell. >>

yes, actually, we do. take a map of europe, and see where there are the greatest concentrations of castles that you want to see. for example, the loire area, the Rhine, Munich, Scotland, Wales etc. then work out how you are going to get around in those areas, and get between them. there is no point in going all the way to, say, Valladolid, for one castle.

for example, if you are planning to fly into London, you could see windsor, then pick up a car, drive west to Wales, work your way north [many, many castles] then drive north to Scotland, tour the many castles there, end in Edinburgh, return car, and fly to Paris.

then get the train to Tours, pick up a car, see the loire castles, then head south to the Dordogne [ditto].

or fly to Frankfurt, and tour the Rhineland castles [boat and train recommended there I think].

then train to Munich, etc .etc.

simply finding a castle on a map and then pointing your car in that direction is of course one way to do things, but your CPM quotient [Castle per mile] is not going to be very high.

The Dordogne is said to have 465 castles, one for every day of the year.

But those responding either live in Europe or have visited MANY times and have driven thousands of miles while there. We are trying to HELP you, but you don't seem at all interested>>

actually jj, i do have a smigeon of sympathy for the OP, having myself posted threads for trips which, if not batty, were not well-researched. invariably i wished that i'd listened harder to the advice I got. it's very hard, when you've got an idea in your head, to be told that it's daft and you need to start again.

a wee smidgen - maybe

See, some people just can't help playing the role of travel missionary.

The theme of your trip appeals to me. I went to wikipedia and looked up "medieval fortresses France." (Presumably there's a similar article for each relevant country. I chose France because I know a little more about it.) Wikipedia has a good article listing what looks like hundreds in France alone. Skimming, I see some that I know are just ruins, so you may want to check on just what exists there now--and, of course, open days and hours.

Do you know about Guedelon, the castle-in-the-making?

If it were me, I'd pick a region with a large concentration of castles and base myself there and do day trips for a while, then move on.

I'm pretty sure you can see plenty of castles without going into any city.

A final word: autoroutes are as boring in Europe as in the US. Give the back roads a chance. You may come across a castle unexpectedly.

See, some people just can't help playing the role of travel missionary.>>

my new year's resolution:

I must not try to help my fellow travellers

i must not try to help my fellow travellers

I must not....

Interesting, Michael. Thanks!

Coquelicot, I have done many of searches on there for castles but I'm going to visit structurally sound castles and not ruins. If I had time, I would do more --without any doubt. Some great websites are topcastle.com and medieval-castle.com , both of which offer many links to information, pictures, etc.

Annhig, too bad you did not adopt that resolution for this year.

I appreciate those who offered valuable insight. To everyone else, happy holidays. I'm done posting here, it's not worth my time to defend my trip. I'm going on it. I was just looking for logistical guidance, trips for driving, etc -- which I did get some of. I'll post again next year after my trip with pictures, comments, etc. If I was wrong, I'll let you know. If it was what I wanted, I'll let you know.

Oh great! You post on a public forum, don't like what you hear, get upset, and pick up your ball and run home.

A good number of Fodorites need to learn that what they think is the proper way to travel may not be what others want to so. That is not such a difficult thing to do, right? One wouldn't think so, but the arrogance of some to the principle never ceases to astound me. The fact you delude yourself into thinking that think you are helping is pitiable.

Would you tell someone what clothes to wear? "Oh, I don't think blue looks good on you. If you wear that you definitely won't be happy with the result"

What to eat? "I know you said you wanted to eat pork, but really, you will enjoy the seafood much more - I certainly did".

Not everyone comes in here looking to be "taught" your way of doing something "for their own good". Some have a plan already set, or a dream of seeing certain things but they have limited time, or they just like driving non-stop for three weeks.

Here is the key - if they are asking about specific advice on how to realize their plan, don't show your arrogance by telling them their plan is wrong because you don't approve of it. If someone says - "Is this crazy?" - "Am I trying to do too much?", then by all means give the "You're trying to do way too much" speech that is burning to lurch from your soul.

Try and learn the difference.

mjconns - There are still those who will try and help you realize what you want to do. Don't give up. There is wheat and chaff -you know the story.

Hi mjconns. I’ve been following the posts and would like to offer a suggestion. I hadn’t thought about having a car with the steering wheel on the right hand side then driving it through Europe where the driving will be on the left side, which could be problematic and expensive.

I see that one of the castles that you would like to see in England is Dover Castle. That being said, could you end the first part of your trip in Dover and drop the car off there? You could then take the ferry from Dover to Calais and pick up a car there.

From your post, it looks like that you are going to start the European leg of your trip with Muiderslot in the Netherlands. Would it be helpful for you to take the train from Calais to Amsterdam then pick up your rental car there instead? I don’t know if this would fit in with your plans, but it might save you a bit of driving time and you will have a car with the steering wheel on the left.

Please do write a trip report of your adventure. I will look forward to it. Have a great time and drive safely!

aramis: "A good number of Fodorites need to learn that what they think is the proper way to travel may not be what others want to so. That is not such a difficult thing to do, right? One wouldn't think so, but the arrogance of some to the principle never ceases to astound me. The fact you delude yourself into thinking that think you are helping is pitiable."

Bollocks! No one is trying to dictate what he sees/does -- a castle-centric trip is fine. Wonderful even. Just not one that tries to cover 3/4 of western Europe by car in less than a month - nearly 25 destinations. What he wants to do is just about impossible -- so how are we 'helping' if we just rubber stamp it w/ >>Hey - piece of cake. Go for it <<

Annhig, please don't stop trying to help or giving advice. When I ask a question, I want all the advice I can get, especially that which may steer me in a different direction because it is better than my original plan. Sometimes things look pretty good on paper, but aren't so good in practice. I appreciate warnings as much as logistcal information.

OTOH, I didn't give this OP any advice because that kind of trip is so far from my kind of travel, I didn't think there was anything I could contribute.

janisj said; "Bollocks! No one is trying to dictate what he sees/does -- a castle-centric trip is fine. Wonderful even. Just not one that tries to cover 3/4 of western Europe by car in less than a month - nearly 25 destinations. What he wants to do is just about impossible -- so how are we 'helping' if we just rubber stamp it w/ >>Hey - piece of cake. Go for it <<"

I have not seen such a forceful contradiction within a single paragraph in quite some time.

I don't think the trip is impossible though I would not attempt it but it is the OP's trip, not mine. If he does not mind spending most of the day driving, why not. He is not planning to visit anything but castles and you usually visit a castle in half a day. He has 13 castles on his list, that makes 6.5 to 7 days out of 24. However he does not say when he is travelling. I would be more concerned about road conditions (if he travels in winter) or heavy traffic along the Med. coast (if he travels in summer) as well as finding a place to spend the night.
I would also have a Plan B in case my time is running short and I have to catch a plane in Madrid.

Taking your rental car from England to the continent makes little sense to me. Drop the car and take the Eurostar, a ferry or fly to Paris. Pick up a car there for the rest of your trip.

I have driven a French car in England and an English van in France so I do know what it's like. Sitting on the wrong side to drive if you don't have to (ie it's not your own car) is not worth the hassle and potential problems. Parking is a snap... passing on a 2 lane road is a danger!

You say you're aware of the one way fees... have you checked? It could be 1,000 euros. If you picked up your rental in Paris you could attempt your itinerary and drop it in France before you go into Spain. Pick up a Spanish rental in Barcelona for the Iberian part of the trip. The inconvenience will be minor compared to the money you'll save.

Agree that in terms of optimizing 'castle' time' and minimizing costs, why would you not consider drop-offs and trains?

Tour England, drop off car, TGV to Paris/Amsterdam, rent car, drop off, train to next destination, rent car,etc..

Saves costs, no worries about RH drive, you arrive in major cities without car, so can visit then get car and leave, get a break from non-stop driving...

Seems like a win-win.

Also agree that driving across America versus Europe is not 100% transferable.

mjconns have you priced in the fuel, that is more expensive over here?

I'd hire left hand drive for UK and right hand drive on the continent.

You need euro cash to pay road fines (on the spot) on the continent.

Check http://ec.europa.eu/transport/road_safety/going_abroad/index_en.htm so you limit problems

Road cops vary a fair bit across Europe, for instance in the UK you will find traffic cops (these are policemen) and road marshalls (Who are not but can tell you what to do and can bring you to the notice of the police) and are based on the motorways, you may also meet community support officers (plastics) who can be helpful if you get lost but are not supposed to arrest you and then there are traffic wardens. Similar variation occurs in each country.

To keep the speed up try to stay on motorways as much as possible, some of these are toll roads and some are not. It might be worth checking this site country by country to ensure that your credit card works in these countries.

Finally autofuel stations are a little odd as they may be the only thing you can buy fuel in (say) Italy on a Sunday, if your credit card does not work in them you will not get fuel.

You may speak English but not everyone here does so pick up a few "please and thankyous" for each of the languages you could encounter. It makes the whole thing work a little better.

Good luck and let us know how you get on

Hi mj,

>I am planning a three-four week trip to hit as many countries and castles as I can.<

That is the most common of newbie mistakes.

Unless you are terminally ill, slow down and enjoy your visit.

Europe will be there for another trip.

"I'd hire left hand drive for UK and right hand drive on the continent."

You sure about that???

Mjconns,

Please do not give up on us. Most of us sincerely are more than happy to help. I think it was the enormity of your whole trip that threw everyone into a frenzy of saying the totality was not workable.

We understand you are going to do it anyway. More power to you.

If I could suggest you start a series of other threads in which you break the trip down into sections, I think it would help us to get our heads around your needs so we can give specific advice. For example, if you ask the best route from Chateau de Chillon to San Marino, someone who lives near there or has driven the route could give detailed directions. They could also suggest places to stay, eat, etc.

Breaking it down into bite-sized pieces could help both you and the Forum.

ira said;

Hi mj,

>I am planning a three-four week trip to hit as many countries and castles as I can.<

(1) That is the most common of newbie mistakes.

(2) Unless you are terminally ill, slow down and enjoy your visit.

(3) Europe will be there for another trip.


(1) is derogatory and insulting
(2) is condescending and arrogant
(3) displays remarkable prescience about another's plans for life.

Hey, but at least you said "Hi" first.

I think that the difficulty / stress of motoring increases in proportion to the density of population. Ditto for parking, ditto for motorway tolls.

Worth bearing in mind.

There’s not a lot of point going to Venice to see castles – there are no castles there, as Venice was well protected by the lagoon, serving as a moat.

But at Mestre, near Venice, there is the Forte Marghera, built when cannon fire was to be anticipated.

http://ytaba36.wordpress.com/2011/12/13/forte-marghera-mestre/ may be of interest.

Google map Forte Marghera and you’ll find it.

I'm still trying to figure out why he's doing the castles that he is.

Of the many, many hundreds of castles in europe he has ignored some outstanding examples (why ignore the Tower of London - which is intact and had incredible historic associations) for others -which are may be in ruins - or just faux (like Neuschwanstein). I don;t disagree that the latter is an interesting sight - but it's not a real castle by any means - having been built long after the age of fortresses.

Because he wants to. His trip, not yours. This really is a difficult concept for some people.

The "Age of Fortresses"? Exactly when was that?

Fortresses and castles are not interchangeable, as your post suggests. Castles are fortified residences constructed by the nobility. Their primary purpose is to be a defensive stronghold during attack.

Neuschwanstein is, most assuredly, a castle.

Typo correction;

Castles are fortified residences constructed by the nobility. Their primary purpose is NOT to be a defensive stronghold during attack. That is the purpose of a fortress.

Castles are fortified residences constructed by the nobility. Their primary purpose is NOT to be a defensive stronghold during attack

Splitting hairs, I think. This chateau was built as a protective unit by a lord who apparently was hated by everyone. It was anachronistic when it was built and presumably could be defended by just 12 men-at-arms (which I doubt).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/4929982353/in/set-72157623877915948

Castle, fortress, call it a chateau and call it quits. And a chateau can be une véritable forteresse as is often pointed out.

But a chateau is often what I would call a palace, with almost no defensive purpose. So chateau is not a useful word in English, where we have more distinctions.

(I once read that to translate an English document into French required many more French words than the original. Because the English language has a larger vocabulary, the French translation needed a lot of adjectives and adverbs to convey the fine distinctions. Of course, a number of those words in English come from Norman French....)

Mimar,

I suspect that if prior to my posting someone asked you which castles to see in France that you would have included Versailles, Fontainebleau, and quite a few castles in the Loire valley that were built with no defensive purposes at all. Castle is a catch-all term.

The French have the word palais.

The Age of Fortresses was before the age of modern armies. Neuschwanstein was not built as a fortress - it was built as an amusement by a "king" of a country that barely existed and was in no danger whatever of being attacked by anyone - never mind armies of knghts on horseback and massive seige engines that had disappeared several hundred years before.

And granted it is his trip - but it seems to have been developed with some very unusual parameters. I have been to many (but not all) of these castles - and his choices don;t seem to indicate much knowledge at all about the subject.

Never mind the plan to drive to (but not into) a lot of cities to get to places outside the cities. Neither Windsor nor Dover is IN London - and he's ignoring the one castle/fortress (a world famous one) that is.

But if he prefers Disney to William the Conquorer - that's his choice.

And chateaux may be castles or may be fortresses or may be palaces. These are very differnt things. Unless you can't tell the Tower of London (practically impregnable at the time) from Buckingham Palace (could;t hold off a troop of boy scouts).