I don't know with "certainty" the answer to your question, but my recommendation is to buy some very lightweight cotton drawstring pants.

http://www.islandimporter.com/catalog.htm?Vl=4&Tp=2

Hi K,

I'm told that it is just like women, covered from shoulder to knee.

These might be even cooler:

http://tinyurl.com/m7ylr

Last summer I observed men with long shorts entering the Vatican Museums and St.Peters. The guards do get a bit touchy about the Sistine Chapel, but they seem much more concerned about women with bare shoulders and above the knee shorts than men with knee length shorts. You can always go to Travelsmith or Lands End and buy long pants with zip off legs (easy to store in cargo pockets). I used those throughout Italy last summer, as I am generally loathe to relinquish shorts but did not want to be excluded from any churches (as I was a few years back in San Gimgnano).

The Vatican is one of the World's foremost places of worship. It's a matter of respect (as well as the rules). It would be a good day for him to wear long pants.

Or - how about those cargo-type pants that zip off at the knee. Not that attractive - but in this situation they make great sense. Slip the bottom half of the legs into your day pack and zip them on while in line at the Vatican. Then zip them off again when you're done.

I guess this is still one of those "gray" areas where allowing someone in could depend on who is "on guard" that day.

Midnightsun, thank you for reportig your observation last summer. Thank goodness this isn't a decision I have to make (being female and over 60). I don't do short shorts anymore.

Exofficio also makes the pants with zip off shorts and are easy to wash and don't need ironing. They are very light weight so you don't have to worry about them being too hot.

Our experience was that only small (I mean younger than 10 years old) boys were allowed in with short pants. Our boys had zip-off pants which they used - same for my husband. Women are required to cover their arms/shoulders as well. We saw people turned away.

It can be so hot and sunny in Rome that shorts really don't keep you significantly cooler.

Aside from that, the official dress code for St. Peter's, which is clearly displayed next to the "dress code police," specifies no shorts for men.

Here is a link to the poster (note the dude in purple is the man)
http://www.stpetersbasilica.org/Pics/SQR/DressCode-JG.jpg

Why not a pair of cotton or linen blend pants? That is what my husband always wore on hot days. A bonus is if you go to sit somewhere that has had the sun beating on it for hours his legs would have some protection.
That type of good looking pant is also great to wear for dining on hot and humid evenings.

Why are you Americans so crazy about wearing shorts anywhere and anytime? Are you so eager to make fools of yourselves?

You don't die if you wear long pants. Business people wear dark suits every day and don't die.

BTW, when I passed 30, I stopped wearing shorts unless I am at the beach or in the wilderness.

I wouldn't recommend it. A few years ago my husband was wearing what you describe as "long shorts" and he was turned back. However right in front of us a woman with a miniskirt which showed the bottom of her underwear was let in.

My husband said it was discrimination! LOL!!!

wliwl,

I remember seeing that poster before, but forgot how to access it. Thanks.

Is that supposed to be a man (in orange) to the left of the word YES? If it is a man, then the shorts/pants are right to the knee. Do you agree?

I just don't think that shorts, particularly those which fall to or below the knee, would keep anyone that much cooler than a pair of thin cotton or linen pants. Wear pants; it's a grown-up thing. It'll be hot anyway. It just won't matter that much.

I know this post is pertaining to mens wear, but what about capris for women? If they just cover the knee will that be OK???

I'm an American who agrees that grown men look ridiculous going about in European cities in shorts. And no place is stricter than St. Peter's. Wear long pants. If not because you might not be let in otherwise, then simply because it's more respectful.

>Why are you Americans so crazy about wearing shorts anywhere and anytime?<

Because our only other choice is long denims.

I don't think men should wear shorts in any city. One of the most horrifying sights in my life was seeing a hairy-legged German wearing bright green gym shorts, black socks and sandals on 5th Avenue on a hot summer day.

Adults have to sacrifice some comfort for propriety. After age 16 -- no shorts in the city!

Shorts for men/teens were not allowed when there last.
They do sell "disposable long pants" out on the main thoroughfare.

It is much easier, & just as comfortable, to wear long pants.

"Adults have to sacrifice some comfort for propriety."

And that would be "propriety" as defined by *who* exactly?

I wear what I please, and trust my own judgement as to what manner of dress is appropriate to a given set of circumstances -- judgement that, by the way, has proven itself pretty reliable over the years.

If someone has a problem with what I choose to wear then, golly that's a problem, all right. But I'm also quite clear as to whose problem it is, and it ain't mine.

Live your life to please everybody and you end up pleasing nobody.

Fritzrl

If you have any respect for the Roman Catholic Church, you would wear your best. If a president of the United States asked you to a state dinner at the White House, would you wear shorts and a tee-shirt?

I've already made my decision Fritz. Wear what you want and submit to judgement. We'll see who gets into the the Vatican and who doesn't.

We live overseas - in an old-world, conservative country (altho they are trying to modernize!).

While there are NO OFFICIAL rules for men - it's just common knowledge that shorts are looked upon as underwear. And unless you're under 10 - men don't wear them. So even in the heat of summer, when my husband goes downtown - whether to go shopping, have lunch, or just get a haircut - he wears long pants.

It goes back to the very simple idea of respecting the culture you are visiting (or in our case - living in)!

Oh - and I forgot to mention that my husband is one of the FEW men I know who actually looks GOOD in shorts!

My level of respect for any religious institution or for the current governing administration is not the issue here.

The issue, from my perspective, is my intention to ignore, or at least avoid, the self-appointed finger-waggers of the world. Using some vague standard of 'propriety' for justification, these scolds intrude unbidden into other individuals' lives, regardless of whether real harm is being done either to other people or to other people's property.

I did state that I would apply my own well-exercised judgement, not anyone else's, as to what clothing is likely to be appropriate to a given situation. For example, in this particular case, should I wish to see the interior of the Vatican then I would likely judge a change of dress to be necessary, based on the dress standards published by that institution, not based on some third-party's tsk-tsk'ing.

I will refrain from assessing the quality of your judgement, and I would appreciate your similarly refraining from assessing mine.

Fritzl

PS: As I've typed this response, I've noted with amusement that many of you have reacted to my original response with eager censure, questioning my maturity, my level of respect for other cultures, my poor judgement -- all based on nothing more than my preference for clothing on a hot day. M'gosh, by the time I finish this addendum, you may all have added even more items to the list of my personal faults. I commend you all on your insight.

Even Ron Howard would be refused admittance to St. Peter's unless he took off that silly baseball cap he always seems to wear.

i am kane:
I believe the poster is showing that a woman (the figure in the orange) can wear stuff to her knees and the man (the figure in the purple) can't. I know for a fact they will prohibit entry to men (but not kids) in shorts.

Here is another photo of a slightly different sign:
http://www.andypryke.com/pub/BlogSeptember2003

Scroll down to 2 September 2003 - read his comments too.

I wonder why people don't argue about the fact of having to change clothes and be formally dressed in some restaurants but feel so bad because they cannot wear shorts in Catholic churches... I just don't go to restaurants that ask for formal dressing when in holidays..but don't discuss their rules

Then there's the Fran Leibowitz position: "Your right to wear a lime green leisure suit ends where it meets my vision."

Is there a parallel universe Europe that you folks visit? I see PLENTY of men wearing shorts, especially in Italy. And most are not tourists. Plenty of the locals tool around in shorts in mid-July. It's freakin' hot there and many guys take necessary measures to keep their necessary parts cool.

"many guys take necessary measures to keep their necessary parts cool."

Reminds me of shrinkage on Seinfeld, when George accidentally got exposed.

We are always surprised at hwo cothing has become such a hot-button issue here in the states - even at expensive restaurants (we're in California), there are often men in leisure outfits; including sweat outfits, albeit expensive designer duds. Why is this such a problem? When did we get this way? Why can't people dress appropriately? Most of us remember a time, or can see by the movies, that we Americans used to look pretty sharp -and our men looked pretty good - bella figura...

Over the years, I have found that most of the time when you see inappropriately dressed people, they are usually Americans. It's embarassing...and they are also the ones that gripe so loudly, even though all travel guides say what will be acceptable and what won't be.
By the way - I believe that is why at the Vatican (loud tourist griping, bullying)it is now acceptable to wear those truly obscene paper pants.

And yes - the Roman Catholic Church has every right to demand respectable clothing in cathedrals, etc., as it remains a place of worship, not a museum, or wonder of the world. If you have absolutely no respect for that don't go there.
I have noticed people are a bit more flexible about other religious beliefs re. clothing (muslim headgear for women, etc.)..why is that?
Throughout Europe there are people travelling in outfits more suitable for rural hiking than in cities. (And we have travelled with young boys, and no we don't stay in fancy places..)

Well, let's show the world we haven't lost our cool!

"When did we get this way?" - we came to San Francisco from USSR in 1989, so I can tell you, it was this way already then, based on my observations in restaurants and in stage theatres.

Raised as a catholic I completely understand the churches expectations that certain parts are covered when you enter certain churches. I can only wonder why this only seems to apply major churches in Italy and not all churches all of the time. As for wearing shorts after the age of ten, what century are you guys living in? I understand the public eyesore from the guy in green shorts and black socks with sandals but that guy would probably be an eyesore if he had to dress like the women in the Arab world. Some people just have no taste and no amount of coverage is going to help. On the other hand I refuse to wear long pants in 90 plus degree weather just because it doesn't fit someone's twisted sense of propriety. When the weather gets hot the shorts come out but they are tasteful. I am going to wear sandals also because my feet do much better when they can breathe. Some of you need to get a life so you can stop telling other people how to live the details of theirs. Oh, and if I was going to dinner with the current president I might have to wear shorts anyway as he doesn't seem to have any respect for those who don't agree with him.

Baldworth

It changed in the last half of the '60's. I know. I was there.

In the '50's in the States to go downtown shopping, women would wear gloves & hats. Then there was the Kennedy era when elegance was sought after. Finally there was the Summer of Love & all hell broke loose. Who can forget the double-knit polyester of the 70's that didn't burn, it melted?

Chill everybody! The OP was asking specifically about admittance to St Peters. That's all.

But isn't that the crux of the question? Why is it so absolutely necessary to ascertain whether an adult man can gain admittance to St. Peter's Basilica in shorts? Will it seriously impair his health if he wears pants for one day?

Judging from the St. Peter's pictogram (men are purple; women are orange), an adult man in shorts will not be admitted to St. Peter's Basilica.

To get back of topic, last summer I saw men with just below the knee length shorts turned away. However, there were some men inside St Peter's that had knee length shorts. My observation is that there is a "Studio 54" mentality, ie the bouncer seems to have discression and uses it.

Oddly, they let one Eastern European woman in with a see through "cover up". While it did cover her from her shoulders to mid-calf, it was so see-through that her flimsy lace bra and teeny-tiny thong were quite prominent. Go figure.

My advise is that its always better to err on the conservative side. For my money the discomfort of wearing a light linen slack for a day is nothing like the aggrivation of working your way over to St Peter's, standing in line and getting told to hit the road. JMHO

We were in Italy last year in June/July and it was VERY VERY HOT! Yes, we wore shorts (shame on us). We were not allowed in the Vatican with our shorts, which were knee length. We knew this, so we just pulled out pants that we had stuffed in a travel bag and put them on right over or shorts. No big deal, everyone was happy. When we came out of the Vatican we just took off our long pants and continued on. And there are many people wearing shorts these days in the VERY HOT summer in Europe, not just Americans, but Europeans as well. Including our tour guide, who was from Rome.

DinPa,

You beat me to it...I was thinking that the guys should wear light-weight pants, but put a pair of shorts in a small knapsack and change later in the day after we leave St. Peters/Vatican Museums (if that's what they want to do).

Sounds like a plan to me!

It

Have your husband wear a kilt. Make sure it hits below the knees.

Haven't read the replies but you need long pants. When our son showed up in shorts we went out on the street and bought some paper pants.

The pants on the website nessundorma recommended(island importer) are very sexy...I'm making my DH wear those when we go to the churches in Venice.

We were at the Vatican last July and they are strict about the women covering their shoulders and some of the leg. My husband and sons both wore long shorts, myself and daughters had on crop pants. Be sure and get there early, the line was 1 1/2 hours to get in. Enjoy.

>"When did we get this way?"<

Right on, carrybean.

Susan Reimer, a Baltimore Sun columnist, wrote an article a while back on how people traveling on airplanes today dress so casually, as if they are getting ready to do some grubby chores.

I agree that it is a matter of respect to wear long pants if that is the rule of the Vatican. One does not have a "right" to visit the Vatican; rather, you are invited in as a guest, and should follow their request out of respect. As someone else pointed out, you would not expect to get into a fine restaurant with shorts (or paper pants), so what's the big deal about wearing pants for a few hours at the Vatican?

On the other hand, I had a good laugh over the comments about grown American men looking "ridiculous" wearing shorts in European cities. Who cares what anyone is wearing walking around a city? Of course, anyone can judge anyone, but would you also judge Indian women walking around Europe in saris? Wearing shorts (I'm talking about longer shorts, not "short shorts") is part of modern American style, and I see no reason for anyone to change their style just because they are on vacation. We're all judgemental at somepoint, however, because I know I can barely contain my laughter when I see hairy European men walking about Miami Beach in Speedos.

I prefer my UPS delivery man in shorts- something sexy about that!

We were at St. Peter's 2 years ago and my son-in-law, who was wearing shorts, was not allowed in.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words...well, I found this on the Internet.

http://www.oz.net/~adamf/Italy01/Vatican.htm

Look like no men in my family are wearing shorts (including my grandsons).

Just went to St. Peters on Friday and wore shorts and a knit golf shirt. We ended up going there last minute, so I didn't have a chance to change. I had no issue getting in.

To my surprise, there was a sign posted at the entrance which says "ok" to knee-length shorts for men - just no short-shorts, tank tops, hats or short skirts.

dunhilldk,

Oh boy, this puts a whole new light on the subject! There really is a sign allowing knee-length shorts for men? You're not pulling my leg are you?

I certainly don't doubt you, but I wish there was some way to verify that what you saw is a permanent posting for visitors.

Did you also visit the Vatican Museum with long shorts on?

Reminds me of the time a few years back we were backpacking around Europe. My friend, who is now a doctor, dropped his shorts right in front of the main doors, took out a pair of jeans from his backpack, and walked right in. I sat outside in my shorts, and watched his backpack for him. He told me afterwards that Micky did a pretty good job on the ceiling!
Bill

I wouldn't chance wearing shorts. Both times that I was there the guards were turning people away who were dressed in shorts or sleeveless shirts.

Haven't read all the replies, and don't know about now, but the time we took our children we had to buy paper pants at a kiosk for DS who had on shorts.

Adding, that might be for entry to the Sistine Chapel.

This original post is from 2006; the OP has surely figured it out before now. Why bring up this old post?

<<grandmere on Nov 30, 12 at 8:56am: This original post is from 2006; the OP has surely figured it out before now. Why bring up this old post?>>

Um, because it is a blatant advertisement?

Seamus, I am the OP. I don't understand your comment "Um, because it is a blatant advertisement?"

Just curious.

Haven't read all the replies, and don't know about now, but the time we took our children we had to buy paper pants at a kiosk for DS who had on shorts.>>

Gretchen - in florence my DH was handed a sarong with which is cover himself. the laugh was that he was wearing the most decent pair of shorts you have ever seen - they more or less covered his knees!

but if they do object, it will apply to the whole of the Vatican museums and St. Peter's, not just the sistine chapel.


I am kane - i didn't understand that either.

"Seamus, I am the OP. I don't understand your comment "Um, because it is a blatant advertisement?"

Just curious."

See the entry just above Gretchen's: >>Comment has been removed by Fodor's moderators<<

The advertisement that topped the thread was deleted

That now missing ad was the post Seamus referred to.