First answer: cancel all that and come to Argentina!

It is getting cheaper and cheaper (if you know what you are doing).

Angie will have the answer to your: "How easy is it to cross into NW Argentina from Bolivia?"

I'm amused at you asking for advice - good grief, you're my go to guy! Can't help but certainly looking forward to the trip report!

Ditto elizabeth_s! Sounds like a great trip already! We went into the Amazon in Manu with Pantiacolla tours. We saw a lot of wildlife, giant otters, lots of caiman, 100 species of birds, monkeys, clay liks. Accommodations were rustic, food was good & an excellent guide.
Otherwise, I just followed a lot of your advice for the rest of Peru!

Like Elizabeth, I'm hoping to learn from your trip! I'm tentatively planning for the same area for this year, although going north from Santiago, but you're well ahead of me.

Do you have the Footprint guide to Peru, Bolivia and Ecuador? It suggests the same route you mention between Ecuador and Peru and gives times and prices for the boats. (But the copyright is Dec 2010 and it notes that they change often....) Probably no substitute for just going.

Congrats crellston. I also like Footprint guidebooks.

I think I've previously mentioned the possibility of going between Loja Ecuador into Jaen, Peru and then continuing on to Chachapoyas, Peru (one of my new favorite regions of Peru). From there you could continue east to Tarapotoa, there is a new road to Yurimaguas where there is a port.

You will unlikely find this in any Lonely Planet, but possibly in the most recent Footprint. You can find videos on You tube of the Carretera Tarapotoa Yurimaguas. However this is still not a route that I would want to take in wet season.

http://www.geosur.info/geosur/iirsa/pdf/es/g3_ama.jpg

Yes, Footprint says that the crossing from Loja to Piura via Macara is the "most scenic and relaxed" between Ecuador and Peru. (I was thinking about using it.) But it isn't in the Amazon basin, is it? I have the LP Ecuador on order, I'll let you know what it says when it arrives.

Not Loja to Piura, Loja to Jaen.

From there you can continue east to Tarapoto.

OK, Footprint also has that crossing, but you have to look for it under Jaen, not Loja. (LP has MUCH better indexing...) It sounds more of a hassle than the Macara one, and it still isn't VIA the Amazon basin, is it?

I think both Loja and Jaen would be considered mountain in the broad classification of climate (although mountain valleys) but it's a lower elevation so cloud forest. This crossing puts you closer to the "selva".

Tarapoto is also cloud forest but a jumping off point to the Amazon basin. With the new road Yurimaguas port is now about 2 to 21/2 hours, you can tour to Pacaya Samiria from that direction

Sample itinerary
http://www.nature-mystictravel.com/paquete_details.php?pid=3&&language=en

Some excerpts from this blog that covers the northern cloud forest area and Tarapoto

http://kojin.wordpress.com/tag/tarapoto/
http://kojin.wordpress.com/2008/08/01/xii-jaen-to-tarapoto-14-may/

Many many thanks for your kind comments and suggestions. Mlgb, the links are great, just the sort of thing I am looking for.

The route from Ecuador to Peru via the Rio Napo/ Amazon is proving difficult to research as the links to both operators suggested by my Rough Guide do not seem to work. In fact few of the links suggested by Rough Guides do! I bought this book in a hurry before we left for Spain so I am stuck with it for the time being. Intersted to learn that both mlgb and Thursdaysd have the Footprint and I may buy this one when I return briefly to the UK.. The RG is ok but I find that whilst it has a lot of info, it lacks any logical progression and stuff is hard to find. I also have the Fodors South America guide which They kindly gave me for being quoted . It is very well written, but being a multi- country guide, lacks the sort of detail I need for this sort of trip. Is the Footprint Ecuador, Peru Bolivia guide detailed enough do you think?

If route via the amazon is a proves to difficult then I may well revert to another alternative, Loja to Jaen seems a great alternative and bizarrely Loja is the next town to where we are currently staying in Andalucia - maybe it's a sign?? However, the Rio Napo trip did sound really interesting. However, I haven't yet told my wife that a fair proportion of the 800km, week long trip may involve sleeping in a hammock on an open deck!!

Keep the suggestions coming, they are much appreciated

When you're around Ecuador go to: http://andestransit.com/ and there you can find a lot of information about buses, routes, companies, times, schedules, everything!

Sorry CamiloAOL and maybe it's just me but this is the worst site I have seen in a long while! Just doesn't seem to work..

Well, I can't recommend the Footprint book
- There is NO index listing for border crossings - this in a book that covers three contiguous countries!
- There is no section summarizing border crossings for the whole book
- There is no section summarizing border crossings for each country
-- So you either stumble on the border crossing info while reading the book, or you have to know the endpoints or crossing points. Even this doesn't always help - the Ecuador entry for Loja has information on the crossing via Macara to Piura, but if you want to know about Loja to Jaen you have to go look under Jaen in the Peru chapter.
- The book is hardcover, weighs 1 lb and would be very difficult to cut up. Perhaps to keep the weight down the type is tiny and hard to read even in a good light. There are few maps.
- The information on a given town isn't all together - a set of towns will be described, then hotels for all of them, food for all of them, and finally transport.

I also have Fodors South America and Peru (both freebies). The SA book tells you how to get from Peru to Bolivia, but not to Ecuador. The Peru book only mentions the Aguas Verdes crossing, and gives no details.

So I spent an hour or so at Barnes & Noble this afternoon, with Lonely Planet SA on a Shoestring, and Lonely Planet and Moon Ecuador and Peru guides. (Forget LP Discover Peru - it doesn't think there are any borders.)

All five books include the Aguas Verdes, Loja to Piura and Loja to Jaen crossings. (Yes, mlgb, LP does know about the Loja to Jaen route, and gives plenty of detail on how to use it.) I though that both Ecuador books covered the Amazon Basin crossing but from my notes it looks like just LP Shoestring and LP Ecuador. crellston - looks like there's only one usable Amazon route, LP Ecuador says:

"It is also geographically possible to travel down the Rio Putumayo into Colombia and Peru, but this is a dangerous region because of drug smuggling and terrorism, and is not recommended."

Also, while the Rio Napo route is doable, it is only for the "most intrepid" travelers. "Basic infrastructure such as regular boats and simple hotels are lacking." Looks like the Ecuador boats, from Coca to Nuevo Rocafuerte (8-10 hours) are more regular, but you could be stuck in a basic border town waiting for onward transport as it is on cargo boats that only leave when full. Four to six days from NR to Iquitos, try to do border formalities in Pantoja. Take water purification tablets, insect repellent and food. Ask at Coop de Transportes Diuciales Orellano in Coca about connections in NR.

I am skipping the Amazon - I have more than enough exposure to heat and humidity where I live, but if I was doing it I'd opt to detour on the Loja-Jaen route. I'll be going north and LP Peru says that if you leave Jaen at dawn you can make Vilcabamba in one day. Summary for this route going south:
Buses to Vilcabamba to Zumba, ranchero (8:00, 10:30, 17:30, two hours +/-) to La Bamba, road depends on recent weather, cross the river, taxi colectivo to San Ignacio (90 min), minibus to Jaen (three hours), taxi to colectivo stop, colectivo to Bagua Grande (one hour), bus to Chachapoyas (three hours).

I used Moon (Patagonia) for my last trip and wasn't too pleased. I thought the accommodation listings were a bit lacking and the maps didn't have grid references. I'm switching back to Lonely Planet.

crellston - I haven't looked at crossings from NW Argentina yet, but I'll be starting there, so will do so soon.

I guess I have figured out how to use Footprint, thursday. Basically under each major town, it says how to get in and how to get out.

I will have a look in my Peru Footprint later on...busy now.

BTW while traveling I have often compared my Footprint against companions LP books...quite often the LPs are sadly out of date, even when new.

I agree with Elizabeth and others .. I can't wait to read your trip reports for this fabulous upcoming trip . I can only offer one tiny bit of advice . When crossing from Bolivia to NW Argentina, it can be very crowded . The day we crossed it was crowded and everyone was just waved through . We did not think anything of it, but later found ourselves in a bit of a pickle because our passport had not been stamped . So make sure youndomget yours stamped .

Have fun planning, and have a great trip .

5. Any suggestions for highlights in each of of the three countries? Particularly out of the way or unusual experiences, The more suggestions the better!

Peru:

Pacaya-Samiria National Reserve north of Iquitos for a great jungle experience. I went on the Ayapua boat.

Heath River Wildlife Center for flocks of macaws on the river banks.

If I return to Peru I am looking at Manu, another wildlife destination and doing the Lares Valley trek for more of a cultural experience.

Have a great time.

Thanks for the tips kodi and atravelynn, added to the list! Just read your TR attravelyn very colourful TR lots of great info and you certainly saw a lot of birds!!!

Interesting debate on the subject of guides, Thursdaysd and mlgb, I guess no single guide is perfect. Looking at my Rough Guide, I checked out the section on crossing from Loja which mentions all the crossing points you did Thursdaysd but lacked any real info, then I notice three words at the end of the section " see travel details" on page ... Which then just lists the frequency, duration and destination of buses and flights in that region, why they can't put it in the text. There just seem like there is any logical progression in the book. The one thing I like about Fodors books is that although they are often not as detailed for this sort of trip as some, they are very well written and thought out. Another grip is that some, like the Footprint it seems, have type that is just too small and lacks clarity in that it is grey rather than black. 20 years ago it would not have been a problem but now if find it difficult to read in anything other than bright light - I am sure this is deliberate to make photocopying difficult ?

I was tempted to buy downloads for my iPad but ther are not that many available, plus, I am not sure reading a guidebook on a shiny new iPad on a bus in South America is a great idea!

Kodi, I forgot to mention that we had a very similar experience to yours in SE Asia. We entered Laos from Thailand across the Mekong thought we had all the stamps we needed in our passports. We saided down the mekong for two days and spent some time in Luang Prabang. When we tried to leave the country weeks later the police at the airport took us to side room an informed us that we were missing a customs stamp ( seemingly the other three stamps in our passports weren't enough!) after much discussion using my limited Lao, I managed to negotiate the fine they were demanding from $200 p.p to a flat $50. It really maddened me because I knew it was going into the policemans back pocket., but his alternative suggestion of going back up river to get the right stamp did not appeal! Now I never leave any border crossing without double checking the stamps!

Here are some of the excerpts from the 7th edition Footprint Peru (the most recent edition is 8th, published in early 2011). The entire South American Handbook is from early 2013. It is possible to purchase individual chapters of any of these books, by the way.

From the intro to the Northern Highlands chapter.
"you can head north to Ecuador on a new route via Jaén and San Ignacio for the crossing to Zumba and Vilcabamba."

Border Essentials: Peru-Ecuador (in a gray box top of p. 524.

The border is at La Balsa, where a few shops sell..basic items..money changers, no lodgings. To leave Peru head direct to immigration (8-1300, 1500-2000). When entering Peru, stop at the PNP after immigration. The Ecuadorean immigration is supposedly open 24 hrs, knock..

Transport: From Jaen to .. La Balsa, cars leave from Jr Santa Rosa corner Progreso,.. 2 hours
If it has not been raining, there is one bus (Transportes Nambija) that goes from La Balsa directly to Loja at 2030, 8-9 hours. To get to Vilcabamba in one day, you need to leave Jaen at 0700, a tiring journey but the Jaen-Loja rad is being improved with paving in progress in each country. You may have to stay in Zumba. There are military controls at Pucapampa, 20 minutes north of La Balsa and just north of Zumba.

BTW crellston being that you will be at the SA Explorers in Ecuador, I am sure you can get better details than can any of us using old guidebooks!

I noticed that in Chachapoyas and presumably throughout this part of Peru, they call the long distance shared taxis "carros" and not colectivo.

Oh my goodness ... Sorry you had a similar problem .
We were leaving Argentina for home, and were not allowed to check in at the airport . The officials kept insisting we had never left Bolivia .... Ummm I'm right here !!!
Nevertheless , we also had to go to another area, and had to pay to get the stamp we needed .

I would someday love to go to Peru and More of Bolivia, so I'll be very interested in your trip .
I know your information was great when I was planning my Argentina trip .

Good luck with your planning .

Thanks for the extracts mlgb, that is v.helpful and expands on what is in my RG. Thursdaysd thanks also for the extract form LP on the Rio Napo crossing, I did appreciate it was for "intrepid" travellers, now I just need to decide whether I still into that category!!

I am keeping my options open for now and, as you say mlgb, we will be at the SA explorers club for a while and hopefully we may meet some traveller who have come that way or even some trip reports in the clubhouse. Who knows we may even bump into some fellow Fodorites en route!

crellston - I don't doubt you're still an intrepid traveler, I guess the question is just HOW intrepid. I must admit that as I get (even) older my tolerance for discomfort diminishes...

mlgb - does Footprint have anything on the Rio Napo crossing?

Yes, under "Iquitos to the Ecuadorean border" p598, also p611

I have excerpted/paraphrased some of the details in the Ecuador-Peru direction

From Coca (Ecuador) to Nuevo Rocafuerte (Ecuador), large motorized canoes sail M-T-Th & Fri between 07-0800, 10 hrs, be at the dock early.

From N. Rocafuerte (Ecuador) to Pantoja, Peru, you need to hire a private deslizador (about $50, 45 minutes). N.R. is a "friendly town" with basic services and a good place from which to reach the east end of Park Yasuni. Immigration is one street back from the water, at the west end of town.

Pantoja (Peru) is a pretty border town and garrison at the confluence of Napo and Aguarico... Peruvian immigration is on top of the hill near the military base, if the officer isn't in, ask around town.[You can hire a canoe $100 to visit nearby lakes w/dolphins or follow a track from town to see jungle].

There are boats that go all the way to Iquitos from Pantoja, but not every company goes every day. The newest and fastest (in 2008) was Cabo Pantoja tel 065-223037. (Shortest time listed to Iquitos is 5 days).

You can save time by getting off upstream in Mazan..a pleasant riverside town with basic services. It is connected to the Amazon by two paved tracks, when the water is low ...to Indiana (15 minutes by mototaxi)...high to El Varadero (10 minutes). These overland shortcuts can save some 150 km of navigation.

Also one day further upstream is Santa Clotilde, another pleasant town with well stocked shops and basic services. There are rapidos between Mazan and Santa Clotilde which cut travel time on slower lanchas.

If you want to buy just this chapter, it is "Amazon Basin".

If you Google some of these town names, you will get trip logs, etc.

Just one random one
http://www.hobotraveler.com/055pantoja.shtml

mlgb - thanks! That does sound less intrepid than the LP version. It's likely that the one country books are a better bet than the three country one.

Yes, I do think the single country books are more detailed. I abridged what was in there, too.

I've use both the single-country books for Peru and Bolivia. I especially like their reviews of lodgings, they will mention known issues with security such as in-hotel thefts.

Many thanks again for the extract and link mlgb, once again really helpful. I also found a couple of other blogs covering this trip

http://savvyroundtheworld.com/2012/12/07/coca-to-iquitos-part-1-preview-to-upcoming-article/

http://www.mytripjournal.com/travel-662336

Makes for interesting reading for anyone interested in this route...

Mlgb you mentioned Chachapoyas as being one of your new favourite placesin Peru ( which looks great BTW) and the Huancayo train trip is on on the list , any other thoughts? I will probably revisit Cusco and the SV en route to Bolivia via Titicaca but would be very interested to hear your thoughts on other favourite places. Hiking in the Cordillera Blanco looks pretty good and, having done some trekking in the SV, a nice alternative?

crellston, I sent several nights in Huaraz,the town vibe didn't appeal to me, although the surroundings are beautiful. Huaraz is in a mining area. This means lots of single men with money to spend in town. I took three group tours (you get hustled for these the minute you step off the bus. They are oriented toward Peruvian nationals. I liked the one to Chavin, and also the one to Pastoruri. As far as hiking, I went to Lake Llaganuco as part of the tour and that isn't the best way to do a trek, not enough time at the lake itself. So I can't tell you much about trekking, but it's beautiful high mountain scenery. I have seen a lot of complaints online about the quality of guiding in the area. I might be more inclined to do Lares or other trek around the Sacred Valley.

I loved Bolivia, there is also trekking but I have no info on that. I did one of the standard 3/2 Salar de Uyuni tours and highly recommend.

I noticed that the schedule for the train is up, and it is reduced from last year. You can also get to Huancayo by bus from Lima, if the train doesn't work. There is a glacier trek from Huancayo, two others at the guest house did this and they loved it (you need to be very fit). I stayed at Samay Hostel, they are on booking.com.
They continued on to Cusco by bus/combi from Huancayo.

www.photoperuana.wordpress.com for some photos of these areas (my website).

We just got back from Ecuador and we used Quito as our base, then traveled out from there. There is a lot to do from Otavalo, including the oldest and largest market in the Americas, and a really beautiful hike around the crater lake of Cuicocha, which has a couple volcanic islands in the center,wildflowers, and more mountains surrounding as the backdrop. It is a bit outside of town. (we had a taxi wait for us while we hiked.) Also, you can easily get to the cloud forest from Quito and there are some very amazing and unique birds in this area. We went to Bellavista Cloud forest reserve and the Angel Paz reserve--the Paz brothers have trained rare birds to come to their call and the offer of bits of worms. Quite a lovely area, too, and a pretty hike across grassy fields and moss-draped trees, then Mrs. Paz makes you a wonderful brunch. Ecuador is #1 in the world for orchids, too, and you will see lots of these. We loved people-watching on the plazas in Old town Quito. Once you get there, you will find out why it was the first Unesco world heritage city. Calle La Ronda at night was fun, too. On a friday, this cobblestone area of about 3 blocks is full of street performers and lots of live music and vendors, and felt safe. Enjoy!

Many thanks snorkeluvn - all these places have now been added to my ever growing list of places to investigate further!

I've been reading Insight Guides "South America" and found a section on the Rio Napo. It mentions Sacha Lodge and La Selva, three hours down river from Coca, an early morning boat ride to Parque Nacional Yasuni for macaws and parrots, birding at the Napo Wildlife Center in the Yasuni Reserve, and the Tiputini Research Station with accommodation on a tributary.

Many thanks for that Thursdaysd I will check out those lodges, am going to leave the decision on the Rio Napo crossing until we reach SA Explorers club in Quito in the hope that I can acquire some up to date info. I am currently trying to decide where and when to go to the Amazon ie Ecuador via Coca or Tena maybe Peru but the current favourite seems to be in Bolivia from Santa Cruz to Ruuranabaque and on to Madidi national park. Having said that if the Rio Napo crossing proves too difficult then I will probably do a side trip to Coca anyway.

An outline plan is VERY gradually coming together now but would be a lot easier with a large map of the north of the continent - they don't seem to exist in Spain! How is your planning going?

crellston - have you thought about buying a map from amazon? The UK site has Nelles and Globetrekker maps, although it looks like only of the whole continent.

Insight Guides didn't seem very taken with Coca itself, nor for that matter with Santa Cruz ("not a popular tourist destination, although it does have some interesting museums and a rich ethnic mix"). Mentions rock carvings two hours west if you're into that - El Fuerte.

My planning is limping along. Now I've finished working on the photos from the last trip I have no excuse, except I'm feeling lazy, and I have a yen for Europe for rather than South America.

Thursdaysd - strap range isn't it. I have spent most of my life living in Europe but is is probably the continent I have explore the least! As for "limping along", I know the feeling well, after 4 months in Spain, I still haven't got to grips with sorting out the photos for our blog! Maybe mañana ..

Crellston, oh i hope you do go to Madidi and report back here! It has interested me ever since reading
Yoshi Ginsberg's book about being lost in jungle etc. Assume you know all that history and about Chalalan Lodge there: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/travel/destinations/bolivia090698.htm

We stayed seveeral nights at Napo Wildlife Center a few years ago. A beautiful spot and we had a wonderful time. Not really very intrepid. Not cheap but highly recommended.

Do go to Madidi and do one of your great blogs. Thanks. . .

Glover, many thanks for the link to the Washington Post articleWhat a fascinating story!! Madidi is firmly on the route now!!