brentp

OK – a lot of great information on this site. Looking to the Scotland experts to help with our itinerary planning.

We are planning to spend the first 2 weeks of April in Scotland. Parts of our stay are fixed and parts are flexible. Here is what we have so far. Please help with suggestions given the time of year we will be in Scotland.

April 1 Arrive at EDI around noon – drive to 7-night cottage near Perth.

April 2 – 8, day trips from Perth to the ‘must see’ sights in Scotland. What we would like to do (in no particular order).

1) Edinburgh Castle – Royal Mile. Can we do a coach tour of Edinburgh, the castle, royal mile, and ‘The Palace of Holyrood House’ all in one day? Best way to get to Edinburgh from Perth (drive, train, etc.)? Other ‘must see’ item? Do we need more time in Edinburgh?

2) Stirling. Would like to see Stirling Castle, William Wallace monument, and other things. Suggestions?

3) Highlands tour. Is there a circle train route/tour from the Perth area that we could take to see the highlands? Otherwise, where are the must go to places in highlights for a driving day trip from Perth.

4) Golf – and other things around Perth. We do wish to spend one day on a links course before we go to St. Andrews – our next stop. We will likely decide the last minute the day and location, but would spend the balance of this day in and about Perth.

5 & 6) Open. Need some more suggestions to look into. Glasgow, whiskey plant tour, museums, coastal cliffs, . . . ???? As you can tell from our other activities, we like historical places of interest and scenic sights. My wife also likes art museums so if there is a good one around this area, that would be considered as well.


April 9 – 12, St. Andrews. Golf and short trips in and around the Kingdom of Fife. This part of the itinerary is fixed. We will be leaving this area the afternoon of the 12th for our final destination in Scotland. Suggestions for ‘must see’ short duration ( ~ 3 hours) sights would be appreciated.


April 13 – 14, ???. Castle Hotel stay?? We need to be back to EDI on the 14th for a ~ 1pm flight. Any suggestion on where to look? I’ve looked at a couple of Castle Hotels (the Airth Castle near Stirling for one), but would like to hear suggestions and comments on all. I think we should be no further than a 2 1/2 hour drive from EDI to allow us to get back in time to meet our flight.

Thanks in advance!

janisj

I'll only make a couple of short comments for now because I am in a bit of a rush. But at least it will top your thread - and I'll come back on later w/ more . . .

- A links course near Perth? A links course will be on the coast so there are none near Perth - and especially none near enough to spend time in Perth after your round. You will have plenty of time when you are in Fife for links.

The easiest way to get to Edinburgh from Perth for one day's sightseeing is the train. You would get off in the very center of town at Waverly Station and not have any parking issues.

BUT - instead of taking a day trip to Edinburgh I wait and stay there April 13-14 after St Andrews. You can drop the car in Edinburgh since you don't need one in teh city. 2 days full days in Edinburgh is much better than 1 partial day - and you can take the airport coach out to EDI.

more later . . . .

starsgoblue

No need to do a coach tour of Edinburgh - the castle and palace are at either end of the royal mile, so you just walk between them and you get to see all three! sorry, no time to answer other questions but that just jumped out at me so thought I´d respond. have fun!

brentp

Thanks for the quick feedback, . . . looking forward to the follow ups to this. See some good ideas already.

sheila

I hope I can help, Brent, being native of the Fair City.

Just out of nosiness, where are you staying?



April 1 - sounds good to me. Tell me where you're staying and what you like to eat and I'll suggest a quiet place for a meal.

To get to Edinburgh from Perth, car or no car, I'd take the train. Parking in Edinburgh is a nightmare. Once you get off the train walk up the road access- there are pavements- from Waverley to Waverley Bridge, and get on one of the hop on, hop off buses. Take the whole tour round, and take in the scene, then go round again, hopping on and hopping off.

2) Stirling- drive down. I'm inclined to suggest, given your interest in golf, that you pause at Gleneagles, which is en route, and have a look round- playing may be difficult. See the Castle and Bannockburn. The Monument is fine to look at, but...

Things on the way would include Doune Castle, and Ardoch Roman camp.

There's not really a circle train route/tour from the Perth area that you can take to see the highlands?

If you have a car, I'd drive. West To Crieff and Lochearnhead, north to Killin, along the north side of Loch Tay and over the hill to Glen Lyon, down Glen Lyon to Fortingall and either up over the next hill to Loch Tummell and down to Pitlochry, or straight down the north side of the river Tay to Pitlochry, south to Dunkeld and back to Perth. You could pick up the Famous Grouse "Experience" at Glen Turret, or Edradour or Blair Atholl distilleries in Pitlochry

4) Golf – Book a round at Carnoustie. This Open Championship course is 45 minutes drive from Perth, and is a municipal course. If you want to play in Perth, go to the King James Club on Moncrieffe island, or Craigie Hill.

Take a day to go up to Deeside, by driving via Blairgowrie to Braemar and east past a string of Castles to Stonehaven, and home again.

Have a day off. Walk up Kinnoull Hill or along the river in the town and watch the world go by.

Most of Perth's interest lies in its history- ancient capital of Scotland- and in its place in Scottish literature. Just north of Perth, 2 miles or so, is Scone Palace, worth a visit itself, which was the site where the kings and queens of Scotland were crowned, seated on the Stone of Destiny, (a good fake of) which you will no doubt have seen when you visited Edinburgh castle.

The town's 12th century Church, St John's is worth a visit. It contains the remains of an Earl of Perth who is supposed to have told the town's baillies "If you give me six feet, I'll give you twa Inches"- a reference to the two parks on either side of the Old town, the North and South Inches (from the Gaelic Innis meaning meadow). In addition it is where John Knox preached the destruction of the monasteries at the start of the Scottish reformation

Sir Walter Scott wrote a novel called "the Fair Maid of Perth" and her house and that of Hal o' the Wynd, can both be visited. This will tell you all about Clan Chattan and Clan Kay and the battle they fought (staged?) on the North Inch. Next to Hal o' the Wynd's house is the City Mills which has a restored oatmeal and some nice craft shops. The City Mills Hotel, which I think is now called the Stakis, is another converted Mill, done so the lade can be seen flowing underneath.

If you walk along the Tay, you can see where the houses in the Watergate had their gardens which led down to the river, where Kate Barlass held off the soldiers come to capture and kill the king.

The town has really good shopping centered around the High Street and Old High Street.

There are a lot of nice walks.. along the river and through the North Inch, through the Norie Millar gardens on the north side of the river, Branklyn gardens on the North side of the river, Kinnoull Hill with its folly, Buckie Braes and Callerfountain.

Places to eat- Let's Eat is without doubt the best place in town, and Paco's and and the Filling Station, are cheap and cheerful.

The Willows tea room in St John's Square is very good for coffee/ tea and cakes and things.


Take a trip underneath the castle in St. Andrews, Fife. It can be a bit of a squeeze so if you are claustrophobic then probably best to pass on this one. John Knox used to live in this castle - also get chance to see the bottle dungeon . St. Andrews with its ancient university, its cathedral (we do have a lot of them, don't we?) and the home of golf, the Royal and Ancient is seriously worth a visit. It has one of the best beaches in the world- the West Sands, which is where they filmed the opening sequence of Chariots of Fire- shame about the weather- and one of the best ice cream shops in the world (Jannetta's) apart from being a lovely little town.

Anstruther, Fife. Visit the fishing museum, Then have the best fish in the world for your lunch. After that drive along the coast to Largo, home of the 'original' Robinson Crusoe. When Daniel Defoe wrote about Robinson Crusoe, he was writing about a real person. His name was Alexander Selkirk and he came from Largo in Fife. Defoe was an English spy up in Scotland in the 1700's and nicked the story.

Restaurants in the area which are very good would include the Ostler's Close in Cupar, the Cellar in Anstruther, the Cellar in St Monan's and the Peat Inn at Peat Inn.

Visit Loch Leven castle where Mary Queen of Scots was locked up and escaped from; and Vane Farm Bird Reserve on the other side of the Loch.
Robert the Bruce, the hero king who won Bannockburn is buried in Dunfermilne Abbey (although his heart is buried at Melrose in the borders); There are lots of other nice places, like Ceres, Falkland Palace, the East Neuk villages- Crail and Pittenweem, St Monans and Leven.

Fernie Castle in Fife?

brentp

Sheila, . . . wow, what can I say except thank you very, very much!

To answer your very first question, we are in the process of booking 7 nights in a self catering coach house in Pitcairngreen, which I understand is about 5 miles outside of Perth. We haven’t completed the booking, but are well into the process. The property is a recently renovated stone coachman’s house of a Georgian manse. The back has private gardens and abuts some conservation land. There is limited information on the property, but the owner (Shonagh) has been answering all our questions via EMAIL,. . . and it is rated highly by VisitScotland.com. We like it and are ready to move forward. Perhaps you know of the place I may be speaking of.

The rest of the information you provided is spot on. We will definitely review these recommendations and bring this information with us.

Oh what fun, . . . lots of planning. I might be back with some more questions after we get a chance to review all these suggestions.

Thanks again!

sheila

About 2 miles from Pitcairngreen is the village of Almondbank. That's where my brother lives

The night you arrive you may wish to have your supper in the pub in Pitcairngreen if it's still open)- finances meant to be a bit ropey. The chef is meant to be very good.

janisj

I'm glad sheila found your thread. She is from Perth and no one can give you better info.

Just one other thing . . Yes, you could travel over to Carnoustie. You probably already know this -- Carnoustie is a wonderful but <b>very</b> difficult course. I wouldn't want you to have a lot of broken/bent clubs before you made it to St Andrews.

brentp

&quot;Carnoustie is a wonderful but very difficult course. I wouldn't want you to have a lot of broken/bent clubs before you made it to St Andrews. &quot;

That's funny

Actually, Carnoustie was on our radar screen for an extra round in advance of St Andrews. However, we didn't want to book too far in advance for this round. We would like to book only a day or two in advance after we get over there - and try to play on a fair day. I’m sure Carnoustie’s Championship course will likely be booked - but you never know. If we can't play there on short notice, any nice course will do. Goal is to work out any cob-webs we have in our swings (we live in the snow belt of the US) before we head over to the Home of Golf.

kasperdoggie

I just want to double and third Sheila's recommendation for ice cream at Jannetta's in St. Andrews - I think it's out of this world good. And I don't even care all that much for ice cream. Love chocolate but only in its undiluted form (85%+ cocoa, no chocolate ice cream or milk shake for me), but the thought of chocolate milk shake at Jannetta's still puts me into a dreamy trance Particularly enjoyed on St. Andrews beach, but I'll take it anywhere! Jannetta's also does decent lunch (sandwiches) with some outdoor tables if the weather is good. ANother place we enjoyed for lunch was the Byre Theatre in St. Andrews - very fresh and well prepared food.

sheila

I've been so rash as to book at Carnoustie for Fodorites who couldn't make the system work, and it's easily the easiest &quot;classy&quot; course to get on to.

The next village down the coast is Monifeith, which has a very fine club links course.

Rosemount in Perthshire is another very fine course (not links).

A thing you will find in Scotland is that every 400 yrds or so there's another golf course. Quality variable. EVERYONE plays.

There are 3 in Perth, one in Crieff, one in Auchterarder (plus the 4 at Gleneagles), two at Blairgowrie; ach you can't move without falling into a bunker.

In Fife, every village has one. There are many fine courses.

If you only want links, and can get on to Carnoustie, play there. If you can't get on, play Monifeith. If you're not fussed about what sort, play Rosemount. If you can't be bothered leaving Perth, play the island.

caroline_edinburgh

In Edinburgh you can get a hop on-hop off open top bus tour - there are several lines but Guide Friday is the best since it has a live guide. It will give you a good overview of the Old Town &amp; the New Town &amp; passes by or close to most of the main sights. You can get off at the stop nearest the Castle, see that, then walk down the Royal Mile to the Palace &amp; see that, plus our beautiful new Parliament building if it interests you. You have to take a guided tour of the Palace, &amp; also of the Parliament if you want to see more than the outside &amp; the foyer. Then get back on the bus &amp; see the rest.

Another sight you might want to consider, not on that circuit, is the Royal Yacht Britannia, if you have time. It's down at Leith - some tourist buses go there but you'd be better off just getting a normal number 22 bus for 80p. You can do a self-guided tour with a walkie-talkie &amp; I found it very interesting.

If you think you might want more than 1 day in Edinburgh (&amp; there is a lot to see), I agree with Janis : save it until last, turn in your hire car at the airport on the way &amp; use buses. The airport bus runs every 10 minutes during the daytime &amp; costs c.&pound;3. If you stay in Edinburgh for a few days you could do Glasgow as a day trip by train - the trains take 50 minutes &amp; run every 15 minutes during the daytime. A cheap day return (outwith peak commuting hours) is c.&pound;8.

I see that your wife is keen on art : both Edinburgh &amp; Glasgow have lots of public galleries, private galleries &amp; artist-run spaces. 'The List' is the fortnightly listings magazine covering both cities so you could buy that when you arrive to see what's on. In Edinburgh, a free bus connects the 5 national galleries.

If you are considering Airth Castle, be aware that most of the rooms are in a modern annexe round the back.

I like Dalhousie Castle (south of Edinburgh &amp; not far from the Rosslyn Chapel, if that interests you) because I got married there ! It has some 'themed' rooms which are quite fun - one even has a well in it ! Borthwick Castle is another castle turned hotel in the same area &amp; is supposed to be very nice.

brentp

Thank you Caroline for all this additional information.

Dalhousie Castle did catch our eye. Looks like a fantastic location for a wedding! I've sent them a enquiry to see if they are offering any packages for the nights we are considering.

On Airth Castle, thanks for the tip. We were aware of the annex, . . . but according to their website, they offer rooms ‘in the castle’ as well. However, because of your post, I went back and looked closer. On closer inspection, it almost looks like the face (fa&ccedil;ade) is original castle work, and the body of the house is much newer. I’m going to have to search for more history before (if) we go this route. Looks like it has also gone through ownership change recently (from Radisson to independent). Anyone know if this is a quality place since the changes, . . . or is it a place we should avoid?

As an FYI, we have also now looked at Fernie, Borthwick, Broomhall (not old enough 18c), Culcreuch, and Auchen in the boarders area. Lots of options, . . . just want to pick the right one. Actually, Dalhousie is at the top of our list, . . . just a bit on the expensive side with their standard rate. Maybe we will get lucky and they will have a good package for us.

Thanks all – this is very helpful.

brentp

Hi,

I just wanted to follow up on this thread and once again thank you all for your great advice. After considerable research – we have come up with our day trips (looks very familiar to the recommendations!). We would love to hear any final comments on this and/or additional things to fill in (if possible).

Day 1 – Arrive EDI, drive to Perth, dinner at the local Pub (if it still is in business).

The following are going to be day trips from Perth – the order may vary based on last minute decisions.

Day 2 – North East Loop (I’ve reversed from prior recommendations, any issues?). Drive to Carnoustie, check on tee times for later in week. Coastal road to Stonehaven (is this anything worth seeing on a coastal route like A92?). West to Breamar (A93), then on to Blairgowrie (A93) and back to Perth. See sting of castles along the way. Other special stops along this route?

Day 3 (not on Sunday) – Edinburgh. Take train from Perth to Edinburgh (Sunday train schedule is light). Take 1 of 4 tour busses (Guide Friday, MacTour both live guides) and do the loop for a ‘pre-tour’ ~ 1 hr. Get off next stop near castle – tour castle (get combined ticket with Stirling for later in week). Walk down Royal Mile, . . . tour Holyrood Palace. Back on bus to see other elements we thought we might like to see from ‘pre-tour’. Time permitting, tour parliament, art museum, or get bus to royal yacht. Train back to Perth – I’m tired just thinking of this one!

Day 3 – Golf Warm up (this will be weather dependant). Carnoustie if able to book earlier, otherwise Moncrieffe Island, Craigie Hill, Rosemont &amp; King James all near Perth are good choices.

Day 4 - Stirling. Drive to Stirling, stopping in/at Gleneagles on way out. Tour Castle, Bannacock Burn, Argyll’s Lodging, Bridge of Allan, WW monument &amp; sword. On way back stop at Doune Castle. Other possible stop on way back - Roman Camps (didn’t look like a lot to see here – is it worth the stop?).

Day 5 – Perth. Kinnoull Hill, Scone Palace, River Tay, St. John Church, &amp; Shopping on High Street. My wife (maiden name: McKay) heard the story of the scene on the North Inch between the Clan Kay and Clan Chatten as a little girl. Her long past relatives stated that they are decedents of the Clan Kay. I’m not sure how Kay and McKay get connected, . . . but – a walk along the north inch will be in order. She is also interested in getting her family copies of the McKay coat of arms (which her grandfather use to have). We’re hoping there will be places right in Perth for this.

Day 6 – North Loop &amp; Whisky Tour (reversed). Dunkeld to Pitlochry (A9), . . . the on to Loch Tummell (B8019). South (B846) and over to Fortingall and Glen Lyon. Along north side of Loch Tay (A827) to Killin. On to Lochearnhead (A84), and then Crieff (A85). Stop in Crieff for Famous Grouse Experience. Only reason we reversed was to do the Whisky (tour) last – is this a good choice – or better to do first think in the morning?

Day 7 – Still open. May golf again (Carnoustie does a 2 round package for almost the same price as the tournament course alone), or simply see things that we feel we missed earlier.

St. Andrews (4 days) – golf of course, and all the other nice things to see in the Kingdom of Fife that have been mentioned.

Last 2 nights currently looks like a stay in Fintry at the Culcreuch Castle Hotel. Might take a day trip to Glasgow and Loch Lomond (worth it?). Culcreuch is a tower castle with 10 rooms build in the 1300s(?). We really liked the Dalhousie Castle – but is somewhat costly for a 2 night stay. Any comments on Culcreuch would be appreciated. Pretty much ruled out Airth Castle at this point. Still looking though, so any suggestions would be appreciated.

noe847

I would be tempted to skip Loch Lomond and spend time in Glasgow. It is an art haven, and a very vibrant city.

The Burrell Collection (located in rural parkland just outside the city) is first rate, especially in medieval art. It also has Degas, Rodin, Cezanne, and extensive collections of eastern and Islamic art.

The Gallery of Modern Art is on Queen Street.

The Lighthouse is a great little museum in a Mackintosh designed building right off Buchanan St. in the center of town. It has changing exhibits in addition to a fine permanent exhibit on Mackintosh himself. The Glasgow School of Art is another Mackintosh building, which is still a working art school. They offer guided tours a few times a day.

The Kelvingrove, which has a collection of British and European art, is currently under renovation, I think, until later in 2006.

The People's Palace, on Glasgow Green, is a folk museum of the city of Glasgow, and very interesting. It has a nice palm court for tea.

The Cathedral of St. Mungo is 12th century, and the nearby Necropolis is a very interesting and huge graveyard.

noe847

Another thought: If you have time on the Stirling day, Dunblane might be worth a stop. There is a very nice restored Cathedral there and an interesting little Cathedral museum across the street in a very old building.

The butcher shop on the main street, David Bennett &amp; Sons, has award winning steak pies. I bought a variety of their flavors (steak, steak and black pepper, steak and guinness, lemon chicken) which they wrapped up. When I got back to my flat at the end of the day, voila! the perfect dinner. I still dream of the steak and black pepper pie...

sheila

Comments?


If the Pitcairngreen is not still in business there's a nice pub in Almondbank 3 miles away called the Almondbank Inn


on the coast road from Carnoustie north, you might like to stop at the SWT reseve at Montrose Basin, or the cliffs or beach at St Cyrus. There is a place called the &quot;Lewis Grassick Gibbon Centre&quot; which has a celebration of the lives and works of the eponymous author. And if you haven't read it, read Sunset Song

A93 to Braemar and Perth?- Crathes Castle, Ballater, Crathie Kirk, Balmoral, Glentanar, Braemar castle, the ski tow at Cairngorm.
Which art museum are you thinking of in Edinburgh?

Moncrieffe Island and King James VI are the same course.

The Roman camp at Ardoch is AWESOME

If you do the battle of the clans, you should a) visit the Fair Maid o' Perth's House and b)Hal o' the Wynd's House, and c) read Scott's Fair maid of Perth before you go.

When you see &quot;mac&quot; or &quot;mc&quot; in front of a name in Scots, it's from the Gaelic &quot;son of&quot;; so that's how Kay and Mackay get connected.

Finding your coat of arms might not be that easy, but I found this one in Fife:-

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/_ht_a/scot...hop/about.html

brentp

Neo847 – thanks for the ideas for Glasgow for our last day(s) and the addition of the Dunblane stops. Also like the idea of the butcher shop in Dunblane to buy steak pies for dinner. We will be staying in a self catering cottage – so that fits right in to the plan. Hope they keep ok for a few hours on the way back to Pitcairngreen (with a stop for the Roman Camps). I suppose we could go to the camps and then double back to get the pies if needed. It doesn’t look to be that far away.

Thanks Sheila!. It is nice to have your help with the finishing touches on these trips. Based on your ‘AWESOME’ advice, the Roman Camps will be in on the return trip of the Stirling day. Also, thanks for the reading recommendation on the Clan battles and the explanation on how Kay and McKay could be connected.

BTW - we haven’t picked museums in Edinburgh yet . . . we are starting to lean towards the doing museums in Glasgow near the end of the trip. However, if you have strong recommendations for Edinburgh, we would like to hear it. That day will be a busy day . . . but you never know – we might have the time for a quick stop. I think I’ve said it before, . . . my wife really likes the ‘art’ parts of museums, . . . I lean more towards the ‘artifacts’ parts of museums. So we will likely need to combine the 2 to keep us both engaged.

caroline_edinburgh

Hm, to me 'art' means galleries and 'artefacts' means museums.

For Edinburgh, see www.nationalgalleries.org for the main galleries and www.nms.ac.uk for the main museums. Also http://www.cac.org.uk/ for the council-run museums + 1 gallery. There are also lots of private small galleries + artist-run spaces - see http://www.edinburgh-galleries.co.uk/ for a selection. Plus there's 'The List' magazine when you arrive, to check for current exhibitions.

brentp

Thank you Caroline for the links. We'll go through those sites to help us choose our 'galleries' and 'museums'. And I have added a note to pick up 'The List' when we get to Edinburgh.

Maybe I'm more into museums because of the aritfacts