Autobahn frustration
Oct 27th, 2006, 10:04 PM
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Autobahn frustration
I just got back from Germany. For those of you who think you are going to race along the autobahns with abandonment, think again. I discovered there is hardly a time of the day free of heavy traffic or long standstills and not always just near large cities like Stuttgart or Frankfurt, etc. There is no rush hour. It's all rush hour! Even a lazy Saturday afternoon jaunt between Stuttgart and Mainz for example, brought us to an interminable standstill that made us retreat at the next exit and alter our plans. It seems the whole world has discovered West Germany..............trucks, trucks, and more trucks! From Hungary, Czech Republic, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, France,.. you name it. To make it more interesting, it was fun seeing the different drivers and license plates from all over Europe. So my advice is to travel early Sunday morning or late at night or toward areas that look, at least on the map as less traveled areas,if you truly want to be able to take advantage of the no speed-limit sections of the autobahn. And be FLEXIBLE!. For example, if you are driving to Koblenz and the traffic stalls, consider a last minute detour to Heidelberg or the Romantische Strasse, etc.. Keep an open mind and your sense of humor. Just don't naively think that Germany and the rest of Europe are going to stop their lives and commerce so we can tear up their autobahns at 160 mph or dreamily meander through their towns and squares without traffic. Those days are over. My question is, why hasn't someone addressed this issue before. I certainly would have planned my trip a bit differently!
Oct 27th, 2006, 11:19 PM
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Well, it's the way it is. If you want to drive fast, the area between Munich to Passau or north from Ulm are possibilities, sometimes at least. Germany isn't an empty piece of land. As you probably know, only trucks have to pay for using the Autobahn. The system is quite sophisticated, relies on GPS and could be used on cars too.
Oct 28th, 2006, 01:06 AM
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The autobahn is overhyped. The stretches through central Germany (Cologne, Dusseldorf, Essen, etc.) are no different from the Pennsylvania turnpike--full of lane-hogging trucks and perpetually under construction.
The only stretch where we've ever been really able to let it rip (or rather, watch German drivers let it rip) is on the A3 between Nuremberg and Passau. Watch out for the wild men in their Audi TTs.
OTOH, we've found the autobahns in Austria and the autoroutes in France to be under-rated, esp. away from the main urban areas.
The only stretch where we've ever been really able to let it rip (or rather, watch German drivers let it rip) is on the A3 between Nuremberg and Passau. Watch out for the wild men in their Audi TTs.
OTOH, we've found the autobahns in Austria and the autoroutes in France to be under-rated, esp. away from the main urban areas.
Oct 28th, 2006, 01:08 AM
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germany is no different from most places in europe. europe is crowded and people depend on the car far too much. there is public transport but increasingly, the lifestyle is turning towards more of a society based on the car. europeans love cars.
food is less local and is often shipped from places like spain to germany, uk, scandinavia, etc. goods made with cheaper labour in poland, romania, etc are distributed all over europe using the motorways.
particularly in germany, conservative trading hours create huge bottlenecks for shoppers (in the roads, in the stores, and in city centres).
food is less local and is often shipped from places like spain to germany, uk, scandinavia, etc. goods made with cheaper labour in poland, romania, etc are distributed all over europe using the motorways.
particularly in germany, conservative trading hours create huge bottlenecks for shoppers (in the roads, in the stores, and in city centres).
Oct 28th, 2006, 04:49 AM
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Face it: some Fodorites cannot stand to have their fantasies ruined by "reality" trip reports of any sort.
Last year I took the train from Cologne to the Franfurt airport and left C at approximately 6:00 AM for the 57-minute trip.
As we got closer and closer to FRA the train tracks were often parallel to the roadway. It was amusing (at least to me) to be whizzing by at 160 MPH or so and seeing the cars to my right at a virtual standstill..and at that hour, too!
Last year I took the train from Cologne to the Franfurt airport and left C at approximately 6:00 AM for the 57-minute trip.
As we got closer and closer to FRA the train tracks were often parallel to the roadway. It was amusing (at least to me) to be whizzing by at 160 MPH or so and seeing the cars to my right at a virtual standstill..and at that hour, too!
Oct 28th, 2006, 06:19 AM
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I found your post interesting, because when I was there in April of 2004 it was not crowded at all. It was very common to get passed by people going at least 150 m.p.h. We were mainly driving in southern Germany (Rhine area to Heidelberg and then east). I was able to drive up to 120 (which was as fast as I felt comfortable with) on several long stretches.
Oct 28th, 2006, 06:32 AM
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>the lifestyle is turning towards more of a society based on the car. europeans love cars.<
One more example of American Cultural Imperialism.
It's nearly 40 years now since I, naive first timer that I was, was praising the public transport system in various European countries and was told, in every one of them, that it was much more convenient to have a car.
One more example of American Cultural Imperialism.
It's nearly 40 years now since I, naive first timer that I was, was praising the public transport system in various European countries and was told, in every one of them, that it was much more convenient to have a car.
Oct 28th, 2006, 08:50 AM
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We returned from Germany, Switzerland, and Austria a week ago and we found backups near Frankfurt and at various areas where road construction was going on. Since we come from the Washington DC area and its beltway we didn't find short waits to be a problem.
What we did learn to appreciate was how considerate the average German driver is - he may come up quite fast in the left lane as you're passing another vehicle but they waited until we were back in the middle lane and then continued. Yes, we put the pedal to the metal when we were passing and it worked!
I wish drivers on the DC beltway and those also driving along I-95 were as courteous.
What we did learn to appreciate was how considerate the average German driver is - he may come up quite fast in the left lane as you're passing another vehicle but they waited until we were back in the middle lane and then continued. Yes, we put the pedal to the metal when we were passing and it worked!
I wish drivers on the DC beltway and those also driving along I-95 were as courteous.
Oct 28th, 2006, 09:04 AM
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I'm sorry your trip wasn't as you'd hoped. But I would have to counter that it really depends on the roads you're taking and the time of day. We went just last December, and, of course, the roads close in to Munich were very crowded -- it's a major city. But north of town, the A92 to Landshut was virtually empty on a Saturday. And the A9 to Nuremberg on the same Saturday was very crowded within 10 miles of Nuremberg, but was completely open south from there. I would think it would really depend on whether you were travelling on the major trucking routes and between the more populous cities.
Just like in DC - I wouldn't expect Hwy 95 or 66 to be open anywhere near DC, and if it was open, I'd feel fortunate.
Just like in DC - I wouldn't expect Hwy 95 or 66 to be open anywhere near DC, and if it was open, I'd feel fortunate.
Oct 28th, 2006, 10:13 AM
#11
Hi,
We just returned from Germany (Munich, Mittenwald and Berchtesgaden), Austria (Salzburg and Tirol) and Italy (Alta Badia, Dolomites). Friday afternoon on the autobahn south and north of Munich, we were cruising at about 160kph and some guys were flying by us! There were pockets of construction all over, as anywhere else I guess. In Italy (the Dolomite region), our third time there, the speed limits are for the most part totaly ignored. On the Autostrada between Bolzano and Brenner, I seemed to be one of very few people driving at the posted 120kph limit. On the passes and local roads, they shouldn't even waste the time putting up speed limit signs...IMO. Unfortunately, I rented an Opel with a 1.4 gas engine. Next time.
Paul
We just returned from Germany (Munich, Mittenwald and Berchtesgaden), Austria (Salzburg and Tirol) and Italy (Alta Badia, Dolomites). Friday afternoon on the autobahn south and north of Munich, we were cruising at about 160kph and some guys were flying by us! There were pockets of construction all over, as anywhere else I guess. In Italy (the Dolomite region), our third time there, the speed limits are for the most part totaly ignored. On the Autostrada between Bolzano and Brenner, I seemed to be one of very few people driving at the posted 120kph limit. On the passes and local roads, they shouldn't even waste the time putting up speed limit signs...IMO. Unfortunately, I rented an Opel with a 1.4 gas engine. Next time.
Paul
Oct 28th, 2006, 10:21 AM
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> Friday afternoon on the autobahn south and north of Munich
Must have been a holiday! Not once in this life I experienced this on a normal Friday afternoon. It's always the question how long the waiting takes... Btw. I did this for almost 1/2 year every day on my way Munich to Ingolstadt.
Must have been a holiday! Not once in this life I experienced this on a normal Friday afternoon. It's always the question how long the waiting takes... Btw. I did this for almost 1/2 year every day on my way Munich to Ingolstadt.
Oct 28th, 2006, 07:31 PM
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I was planning to drive from Munich to Frankfurt on Thursday 4 January and stop off at Neckarsulm to see the Audi factory.
Considering your feedback on traffic am I expecting too much?
How long would it normally take to drive from Munich to Frankfurt?
Considering your feedback on traffic am I expecting too much?
How long would it normally take to drive from Munich to Frankfurt?
Oct 29th, 2006, 01:13 AM
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>>>>>
One more example of American Cultural Imperialism
>>>>>
sorry Ira but to say that european car culture is driven by america is a gross misunderstanding of european culture. it is also arrogant and over-inflates the influence that the US has over the lives of europeans. why do so many americans think that here in europe we would be still carrying the ingredients for our evening meals home in wicker baskets (walking or on our bicycles) if it weren't for americans?
just like in the US, with growing affluence (and the associated expectations of greater comfort, convenience and freedom), increasingly more complex work and family lives, and the place of the car as a status symbol, car ownership and use is increasing. this has nothing to do with following in the footsteps of the US.
in fact, in many places in europe, the car is a much stronger indicator of status as compared to the US.
in know that the charges of american "cultural imperialism" that occur here from time to time are usually just innocent self deprecation but to think that all realities of modern life in 21st century europe are wholly driven by america is an overly self-important attitude.
One more example of American Cultural Imperialism
>>>>>
sorry Ira but to say that european car culture is driven by america is a gross misunderstanding of european culture. it is also arrogant and over-inflates the influence that the US has over the lives of europeans. why do so many americans think that here in europe we would be still carrying the ingredients for our evening meals home in wicker baskets (walking or on our bicycles) if it weren't for americans?
just like in the US, with growing affluence (and the associated expectations of greater comfort, convenience and freedom), increasingly more complex work and family lives, and the place of the car as a status symbol, car ownership and use is increasing. this has nothing to do with following in the footsteps of the US.
in fact, in many places in europe, the car is a much stronger indicator of status as compared to the US.
in know that the charges of american "cultural imperialism" that occur here from time to time are usually just innocent self deprecation but to think that all realities of modern life in 21st century europe are wholly driven by america is an overly self-important attitude.
Oct 29th, 2006, 02:29 AM
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walkinaround, I am relieved to hear that there is such a thing as an 'overly' self-important attitude, it leaves hope that there is a degree to which I can indulge my ego, i.e. have a self-important attitude, that will be found acceptable...
Look my friend, people will think what they want to think. Save your breath and let them get on with it, or, if you must disagree passionately with people such as ira, you can always run him over with your Citroen Maserati.... (You have it coming, ira....
)
Not that there's much room on the autobahn these days to get a good running start. As I joked with a German policeman I met vacationing here this summer, we drove through Germany using either 4th gear or, after braking hard, down to 1st, but never in between...
Look my friend, people will think what they want to think. Save your breath and let them get on with it, or, if you must disagree passionately with people such as ira, you can always run him over with your Citroen Maserati.... (You have it coming, ira....
)Not that there's much room on the autobahn these days to get a good running start. As I joked with a German policeman I met vacationing here this summer, we drove through Germany using either 4th gear or, after braking hard, down to 1st, but never in between...
Oct 29th, 2006, 04:50 AM
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Calm down, W.
Does every remark have to have a smiley face?
However, you might wish to consider that
>.... car ownership and use is increasing.<
is exactly what the Europeans, especially the French, were complaining about the US 30 years ago.
It is also what the Europeans complain about the US now: consumerism, overexploitation of limited fossile fuels, overproduction of CO2 and other noxious gases and vapors, etc, etc, etc.
>....this has nothing to do with following in the footsteps of the US.<
You might not wish to admit it, but you are.
Does every remark have to have a smiley face?
However, you might wish to consider that
>.... car ownership and use is increasing.<
is exactly what the Europeans, especially the French, were complaining about the US 30 years ago.
It is also what the Europeans complain about the US now: consumerism, overexploitation of limited fossile fuels, overproduction of CO2 and other noxious gases and vapors, etc, etc, etc.
>....this has nothing to do with following in the footsteps of the US.<
You might not wish to admit it, but you are.
