Scotland itinerary advice, plz!

Old Apr 26th, 2007, 11:17 PM
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Scotland itinerary advice, plz!

Greetings! With much advice from all over including here, I've drafted the itinerary below for myself (44-yr-old single mom), my 12-year-old daughter, and my parents, in August 2007. Airplane tickets are purchased, now making final plans and booking accommodations.

Your feedback warmly welcomed! (Am still trying to convince my dad it will be more relaxing to let others do the driving ... he can't imagine traveling without a car, and I can't imagine traveling with one!)

Aug. 1-4: Daughter and I visit Orkney Mainland.
Aug. 5: We leave Ornkey, take train from Scrabster area to Inverness area, where we will hook up with gramma and grampa.
Aug. 6: One day visiting Inverness area.
Aug. 7: Hire driver/tour or take public transportation Inverness to Fort William, visiting Loch Ness and other key sites along the way. Overnight in Fort William area. (any advice for tranportation on this route, or lodging?)
Aug. 8: Stream train Fort William to Mallaig, one way only. This is a Harry Potter related "must-see." At end of train journey, visit Mallaig. Hire car/driver to travel from Mallaig to Dornie via Isle of Skye, seeing sites along the way concluding at Eileen Donan Castle. Overnight in this area.
Aug. 9: Take public transportation/train back to Inverness, on to Edinburgh.
Aug. 10: Inverness to Edinburgh, begin exploring Edinburgh.
Aug. 11: Edinburgh, including late Tattoo performance.
Aug. 12: Morning train to Perth, to catch Perth Highland Games. Train back to Edinburgh in the evening.
Aug. 13: Poke around Edinburgh, late train to London for more Harry Potter related travel.

Thoughts? Have I overbooked our time? Must-stay accommodations that are relatively inexpensive and unique/interesting? Should we rent a car to do this itinerary? Thank you in advance for any help you can provide!
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Old Apr 27th, 2007, 06:18 AM
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Scotland can be toured by public transportation, but the trains will take a lot longer and you will not see the coolest bits. For example, Inverness and Fort William are not so interesting themselves, but there are things to do and see in the vicinity. Also, the trains do not run all that frequently. Check the train schedules to get a feel for the schedules. We've visited Scotland with and without a car, and having a car is much easier.

I'll side with your father - rent a car. You will have three adults;: a driver, a navigator, and someone to issue the "stay left" reminders (I'd put two down on the rental contract as drivers, and you could take turns in these roles.)

Do you have a specific reason to go to the Perth games? I'll give you an alternative: on August 11, the World Pipe Band Championships will be held in Glasgow. My daughters play in bagpipe bands, and I have attended the World Championships in 2003, 2005 and 2006. I've also been to highland games in several other towns in Scotland, including Perth. Here is a brief description of each:

The World Pipe Band Championships are held on Glasgow Green, adjacent to the People's Palace and along the banks of the Clyde. There are hundreds of bands (of all levels from all over the world) competing throughout the day in 4 areas of the field. In addition to pipe bands, in other parts of the Green there are the Highland Dance World Championships and the Heavy Athletics European Championships. You'll also find food stalls and various vendors, crafts, etc. Thousands of people are in attendance, and there is quite a festive feel.

Here is a link to some images from last year's event:
http://www.glasgowguide.co.uk/images...ipe_bands.html

If you went, you would want to take one of the frequent trains over from Edinburgh, stay as long as you want - you'd have plenty of time to catch the train back for the Tattoo that night.

The Perth Highland Games are a good taste of a local Scottish Highland games. If you have been to any highland games in North America, especially the bigger ones, you will find quite a difference. There are no clan booths, very little in the way of tartan souvenirs, few spectators dressed in kilts, etc. Instead you'll find carnival type rides, a tug of war, motorcycle demonstration, and fairly low key competitions on a small scale: highland dancing, heavy athletics, pipe bands (maybe 15-20 bands, mostly at the lower grades). There are several vendors selling crafts, jewelry and leather goods, and a few food vendors; the most notable/crowded is the one selling the Arbroath smokies (several kinds of smoked fish). The games field is located a bit out of the center of town, so a longish walk, we thought.

Here is a website for the Perth games:
http://www.highlandgames.org.uk/

For anyone else interested in attending highland games, they are held all over Scotland during the summer. Most are quite small local events and give a lovely taste of local life in Scottish towns:
http://www.albagames.co.uk/Highland_games2000.htm
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Old Apr 27th, 2007, 06:27 AM
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First of all - please listen to your Dad. Your itinerary will be much easier if you have a car for everything except when you are in Edinburgh. Plus it will be much cheaper. Train tix aren't too expensive - but when you are talking about 4 people a car will almost always be cheaper.

Just a few other comments:

"visit Mallaig" - ain't nothing to "visit" in Mallaig. It is the ferry terminal for getting to Skye so you will be going there - but no reason to stop.

I personally don't understand taking the ferry to Skye only to cross the isle and leave from the bridge on the same day to stay in Dornie.

You are looking for a driver to pick you up in Mallaig and drop you in Dornie??

If you drove you could go from Inverness along Loch Ness, by Eilean Donan, on to Skye and spend the night there. Then take the ferry to Mallaig and three of you take the train to Ft William while the 4th (probably Dad) drives the car and meets you at the other end.

And then from Ft William (Don't stay in Ft William BTW) you can take which ever route you want to Edinburgh w/o having to backtrack up to Inverness.
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Old Apr 27th, 2007, 06:31 AM
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I was posting the same time as noe847. She REALLY knows Scottish games so can be a big help. We definitely agree re driving . . . .
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Old Apr 27th, 2007, 06:54 AM
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While with some serious revision, your basic itinerary is doable via the train, if renting a car is at all a possibility, you'll make much better use of your time and won't find yourselves confined to places only accessible by train.

please repost with your decision. Fodorites can then advise you better on your plans.
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Old Apr 29th, 2007, 09:42 PM
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Hmmm.... well, I could be open to the car thing ... I just felt like I was reading everywhere that, it being the high season, that already-slow roads will be slower. That, coupled with the stress of driving on the "wrong" side, didn't seem worth it. Since I'm losing this battle with dad, let's say for the sake of this conversation that we'll drive.

I agree with JanisJ's proposed itinery and had thought of same, except everyone wants to ride the steamtrain. What route would you recommend if we assume that the car gets parked for the day while we all ride the train round trip? And where would you stay, if not Fort William?

And... dad found the Perth games and thought that they were the "biggest" during the time we will be there. He really wants to see the "heavies." Seems we'll get plenty of pipe bands at the Tattoo. If we trained over to Glasgow for the day, how difficult would it be to get from the train to the location of the World Championships? Or are you suggesting we keep the car the drive to Glasgow?

Thanks, all!
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Old Apr 30th, 2007, 04:07 AM
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Have you already booked your accommodation in Edinburgh ? If not you've left it very late, as all the festivals will be in full swing by then - I suggest just ringing the tourist board and seeing what they've got.

And have you already got your Tattoo tickets ? It sold out in January or February.

In case you're not aware, here's a website with links for all the festivals - www.edinburghfestivals.co.uk. International Festival tickets are already on sale.

I haven't seen your other posts - have you made a deliberate decision to come to Edinburgh during the festivals ? If so, great - and you've probably already booked everything. If not, and if you are not interested in attending the festivals apart from the Tattoo, you may want to reconsider staying in Edinburgh. It's my favourite time of year but it's very busy and crowded.
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Old Apr 30th, 2007, 04:36 AM
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Do NOT drive to Glasgow. Parking is extremely difficult anywhere near the Green on that day. There are all of the coaches for the bands and cars for other participants, etc. The train is definitely the way to go. They run very frequently between the two cities. It will be about a 10-15 minute walk - you could also get a cab from the train station to Glasgow Green - should be around 5 pounds.

You should turn in your car when you reach Edinburgh at any rate, since it is very difficult to park and to sightsee with a car in the city.
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Old Apr 30th, 2007, 08:26 AM
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Excellent... thank you, this is exactly the kind of feedback I am looking for.

We were making our plans when we discovered the festival and the tattoo, so we built our time around it understanding it will be busy and crowded.

We have tattoo tickets, at highly inflated prices but it will be a once in a lifetime experience for gramma and grampa. And we have reserved accommodations in Edinburgh, which indeed were hard to find.
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Old Apr 30th, 2007, 08:35 AM
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Oh good, so glad !
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Old Apr 30th, 2007, 11:07 AM
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I also meant to say that (for your husband) Glasgow will have a large number of the best heavy athletes. Last year, for the medal ceremony of the heavy athletics, the celtic rock group Clan An Drumma performed. http://www.clannandrumma.com/

There would be far fewer in Perth, but there will, of course, be some there.

The bagpipe bands you will see at the Tattoo will be military and performance bands, and will put on quite a show. Glasgow Green will have the best competition bands in the world.
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Old Apr 30th, 2007, 01:14 PM
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You may have already found the Highland Games site, but the fixtures whilst you're with us arebr />
AUGUST 3 (Friday) DORNOCH HIGHLAND GATHERING
AUGUST 4 (Saturday) ABOYNE HIGHLAND GAMES
AUGUST 4 (Saturday) INVERKEITHING HIGHLAND GAMES

AUGUST 5 (Sunday) BRIDGE OF ALLAN HIGHLAND GAMES

AUGUST 5 (Sunday) MONTROSE HIGHLAND GAMES

AUGUST 8 (Wednesday) ISLE OF SKYE HIGHLAND GAMES

AUGUST 9 (Thursday) BALLATER HIGHLAND GAMES

AUGUST 9 (Thursday) TAIN HIGHLAND GATHERING

AUGUST 10 (Friday) ASSYNT HIGHLAND GAMES

AUGUST 11 (Saturday) ATHOLL & BREADALBANE HIGHLAND GATHERING

AUGUST 11 (Saturday) STRATHPEFFER HIGHLAND GATHERING

AUGUST 12 (Sunday) PERTH HIGHLAND GAMES

If you are after something like authenticity, go for one of the smaller rural ones, rather than Perth.
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Old Apr 30th, 2007, 06:00 PM
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RE: Highland Games
Let me see if I understand. Smaller, more rural will equal more authentic. Perth may draw more participants than others, but may feel less authentic. Glasgow will equal world championships with much to see. Authenticity rating?

I've looked at many of the Games websites in the past, but could not get a handle on which are "real" and which are simply tourist attractions.

I tried to angle us toward Isle of Skye or Tain games, but grampa thought Perth looked "biggest" of the choices. Of those Sheila listed Aug. 8-12, which would you all view as most authentic/worthwhile? Does Glasgow top your lists, or ?

RE: Driving
Let's see if I can summarize: Drive the highlands for flexibility, perhaps for ability to get away from beaten tourist track, more authenticity. Train (or fly or bus) within the cities and between the cities.

RE: Harry Potter/streamtrain
Reading other posts, it looks as though the important Harry Potter scene is the viaduct and that can be viewed from the road or the train. Thoughts?

RE: Fort William and Inverness
I've read dozens of places that neither is worth staying in, esp. Inverness. Yet both seem to be the ideal "base" for travel in the area and/or the likely places to pick up/drop off cars and catch trains. What other nearby places do you recommend? Specific accommodations ideas welcome, too!

Thanks again, so much!
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Old Apr 30th, 2007, 09:14 PM
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The World Championships in Glasgow are not classified as a 'highland games' although there are pipe band competitions, heavy athletics, and highland dancing of the very highest levels.

I'll defer to Sheila's experience of the rural highland games. Bridge of Allan is bigger than Perth, as it is used as a run-up to the World Championships the following week. As far as I know, none of these are staged as tourist attractions, so all would be 'authentic' - although the smaller, more rural ones might give a better flavor of local Scottish small town life.

The larger games held a week before (usually Bridge of Allan) and the two weekends after the Worlds (up through Cowal/Dunoon on August 24/25 - usually Perth and Crieff) have a higher percentage of foreign bands competing (some of those who come over for the Worlds), but beyond the pipe band competitions the games themselves - carnival rides, small stalls, local food, tug of wars (or is it 'tugs of war?'), etc. seem to be quite local/Scottish even at those. And even these 'larger' Scottish games don't begin to touch the spectacle of the medium or large sized highland games in North America.

Am I off base, Sheila?
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Old Apr 30th, 2007, 09:54 PM
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Special note to Sheila: I just read your visa waiver drama on another post. Stunning ineptitude ... I'm sad but not surprised. I assure you I didn't vote for him, either, and hope you won't hold it against all of us who value your great advice!
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Old Apr 30th, 2007, 11:49 PM
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Janis' proposed itinerary, with my questions:

"If you drove you could go from Inverness along Loch Ness, by Eilean Donan, on to Skye and spend the night there."

Is the above one day's drive? Recommended accommodations?

"Then take the ferry to Mallaig and three of you take the train to Ft William while the 4th (probably Dad) drives the car and meets you at the other end."

Is the train to Fort William the steam train, leaving in the afternoon? Or do several trains run this route? Is it essential to book in advance, or can one simply show up and expect to buy train tix? Once in Fort William area, where do you suggest the next overnight? Glen Coe?

Re: Accommodations
We are spending a small fortune in Edinburgh, London, elsewhere, so thoughts about clean, friendly, not-too-spendy accommodations warmly welcomed!

My apologies for multiple posts ... I have to do something to entertain myself here on the U.S. West Coast while I'm waiting for the UK to wake up!
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Old May 2nd, 2007, 04:20 AM
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Driving will certainly open things up for you.

I think that you would be as well to take the train. You cans ee the viduct from the road, but the exerience is TOTALLY different from below. You either park in Mallaig or you park in Fort William. The steam train trades under the name of The Jacobite, and that's what janis is referring to, too.

What sort of place do like staying in. There are a few places in the vicinity of both towns which are nicer than Fort William and Mallaig themselves. Ditto Inverness.

No doubt Perth is bigger than some of the other games but it's a real Johnny-come-lately. It wasn't there when I was growing up. So it will be a spectacle but not a true community event.

None of the games are ONLY tourist attractions, although that's a major part of what they are. Think County Fair, but with a kilt on.

Noe's input is spot on, of course, but she does rather major on pipe bands

It all depends what you're after. My all time favourite games is the Lonach Gathering but your dates don't fit.

I would take less than 2 hours to drive from Inverness to Skye via Loch Ness and Eilan Donan if you didn't stop.

Once you've firmed up your route and rough stopping points come back to us on accommodation.

Ordinary trains do the Mallaig/Fort William route as well as the Jacobite. If you're using an ordinary train, bokking's not an issue. Book for the Jacobite. You might not need to but how upset would you be if you didn't and couldn't get on?

Where are you going after Fort William? That will help us advise where you should stay.
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Old May 22nd, 2007, 10:42 PM
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Thanks to all for previous advice. You'll also see my other post under "London" as I've been working on that part of our journey. But... back to Scotland.

Here is itinerary thus far:
Aug. 1-4: Orkney Mainland.

Aug. 5: train Scrabster to Culrain, overnight at Carbisdale Castle

Aug. 6: meet up with two more adults at Inverness airport, rent car, overnight Bunchrew House.

Aug. 7: Travel Inverness to Dornie area, taking our time along the way including Loch Ness, Eileen Donan Castle. Overnight the School House at Dornie.

Aug. 8: Travel Dornie area to greater Fort William/Glencoe area, poke around that area. Overnight somewhere (ACCOMMODATION SUGGESTIONS?)

Aug. 9: Round trip Jacobite Steam Train Fort William to Mallaig and back. Overnight same place as chosen above.

Aug. 10: Drive or take train Fort William area to Edinburgh. (RECOMMENDATION? I'm leaning toward train)

Aug. 10-13: Edinburgh

Aug. 14-20: London, with day trips to Oxford and Salisbury.

I have all accommodations booked EXCEPT London (see my London post) and Fort William area. When I say "Fort William area" I mean anywhere in the vicinity that allows us to catch the steam train without a rush to get out the door early to drive far.

Accommodations preferred are unique, smallish, reasonably or budget priced. Any ideas?

I have a million notes about things to see/experience along the way, thanks to the dozens and dozens of posts I've reviewed. Thanks to all!
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 01:04 AM
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For Fort William, I'd stay at teh Holly Tree at Kentallen- it's about 15 miles south, but it's a fantastic location.

I'd take the train to Edinburgh, were I you.
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Old May 23rd, 2007, 04:34 AM
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The train to Edinburgh makes sense

But there is also a TON to see in between. Kentallen (if that is where you end up) to Edinburgh is a reasonable day's drive through Glencoe and then the Trossachs. So it just depends --

Also, you've probably already verified this but just in case, does the car rental agency have a location in Ft William where you can drop the car?
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