Bo2642

I'm not sure if it's o.k. to refer to That Other Travel Message Board (Frommers.com), but if so I'd be interested and grateful to have input/reaction from anybody who has taken OAT's Ultimate Africa to an Oct. 23, 2005 post from Artie (Botswana with OAT--Travel Talk; Botswana section).
My travel partner and I, two retired school teachers, are at the beginning stages of planning a 2007 trip to Botswana and South Africa. We are considering 2Afrika since our trip with them last year to Tanzania and Kenya was fantastic, but we would prefer to be routed through Europe from Los Angeles, breaking up the flight a bit, rather than have to do 2Afrika's add on flight from LA to NY, DC, or Atlanta, prior to boarding SAA's long flight to Johannesburg. Of course, we could handle our own air arrangements, but that would probably add considerably to the cost of the trip. We have had some excellent OAT/GCT trips in the past to Peru, Eastern Europe, and Vietnam and Cambodia, so, in addition to 2Afrika's offerings, we have been looking with interest at OAT's Ultimate Africa. Flight routing is through London. Reviews, though, are mixed. A main concern on the boards (Artie's post included) seems to be the location, and perhaps quality, of the OAT camps. Many are "not impressed". Let it be said that while we are not looking for luxury or exclusivity in the camps or lodges, we would like something clean, comfortable, and well situated for game viewing and other activities which would add to quality of the trip. Our budget is mid-range. OAT's prices certainly would be hard to beat, but we don't want a compromised trip in order to save a thousand more or less. Our area of interest is not only the animals but also some cultural tourism. Also, we don't want to packed into a bus or van for game drives--six people max, four even better.
If there are other companies out there that you would recommend, keeping within the mid-budget range, we would also appreciate those names. But we would especially like feedback on OAT'S Ultimate Africa (and also to 2Africa's Transform Yourself 14 day safari, if anyone has taken that). Many thanks, Barbara

LyndaS

I checked the East Africa Trip report Index,

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34725679

and could not find anyone that had written a report that had used OAT. It has been mentioned on this board, but, so far, no reports!

climbhighsleeplow

Hi Barbara

I can comment on a few points in your post.

FACT. Safari Costs. Please don't believe the marketing! In East Africa, OAT, 2Afrika and similar overseas companies are more expensive than well-established local outfitters. We've had this discussion here in the past. Take any itinerary from these agents and send it to a few local companies and you will be surprised at the savings! Sometimes you can save hundreds if not thousands of dollars. Remember, they don't operate their own safaris - they simply use local companies after adding stiff margins!

FACT. Private vs. Group travel. The prices you get from these overseas companies are based on 15 or more people traveling together. Ask them for a private safari for 2 and their prices can double or worst! And a similar private safari for 2 arranged by a local outfitter will be cheaper than 99% of these much-hyped group safaris - this is easy to prove!

FACT. Itineraries. These overseas companies have set deparures using larger lodges/camps to accommodate larger groups. In most cases the itineraries are designed around availability and profit margins and not around animal movement patterns and client interests. Instead, with the help of this board you can design perfect itineraries putting you at the best places at the best times.

FACT: Airfares. It is tempting to look at all-inclusive packages as money-savers. But are they? When using kayak.com and other resources you can find airfares to Africa that will almost wlways beat the fares of the overseas safari companies who have to build fare-hike buffers in their rates.

SUMMARY: There are good reasons why people use OAT, 2Afrika and similar agents. Many people like to travel in groups. Some make life-long friends on such trips, some are traveling last-minute and cannot arrange a private trip in time, and others just don't have the knowledge, patience or nerve to go to Africa on private safaris. This is perfectly understandable.

BUT: these tours are NEVER cheaper and they are certainly NEVER optimized for game viewing!

VeeR

I used OAT last year on their Ultimate Africa and now I have been working on going back to Botswana. I found the camps to be lovely. I'm sure they were not the super luxury camps that I have read about on this message board - but they were far nicer than I expected. With OAT you are limited to sixteen people -our group had twelve and each camp had two vehicles going out so no overcrowding as far as I was concerned.
OAT does have an emphasis on education (in theory) everyday there was a short talk or demonstration of local handicrafts, cooking, tracking, etc.
I felt the variety of the camps was interesting - going from Baobab Lodge in the Chobe area (we were fully surrounded by elephants there on a couple of treks), then on to the more waterbased Lianshula Lodge in Namibia with daily sundowners on the river, to a bit more rustic setting in the Okavanga delta then on to Linkwasha Lodge in Hwange, ending up at Victoria Falls.
I felt everyone at each camp tried and succeeded in providing us some great game viewing. Of course I speak as a rookie.
As far as pricing - I am working with frequent flier miles right now and companion airfare and find the OAT's prices were fair. I suppose if I was an absolute wiz at making the airfare deal there might be some differences. Same goes for contacting local operators. I still think OAT is a great deal and the Ultimate Africa is a good introduction to the area.

ShayTay

Overseas Adventure Travel isn't located overseas; they're headquartered in Boston. One of the original founders is now one of the owners of Thomson Safaris. Their advantage is the really great prices they get on airfare. Some of their packages with air can be the same as some safari company's land-only costs. Of course there are trade-offs and everyone has to decide what's more appealing to them, but for some people, group travel is the only way they are going to be able to go to Africa. Current "A contract" airfare from the West Coast of the US to Kilimanjaro/Arusha is almost $2500. I shudder to think the contract prices will be next year.

Patty

What is "A contract"?

jenn24

I looked into OAT briefly for my upcoming trip to Africa. The thing that turned me off them was when I saw they had an unsatisfactory rating with the Better Business Bureau. I don't know if that matters much to you, but it was a red flag to me.

Jenn

Bo2642

Thanks, All, for your responses. And, Jenn-- Yes, I do think BBB ratings are valuable consumer resources. I tried to access that info by going to BBB.org, but couldn't find anything for OAT or its parent company Grand Circle Travel. What was the nature of the complaints? I'm surprised that the rating was unsatisfactory given our positive experience with them in the past.

jenn24

Barbara,

Here's the link to the BBB report

http://www.bosbbb.org/reports/reliab...mId=0000003848


Good luck with whatever you decide to do


Jenn

ShayTay

The "A" contract is what companies with extensive bookings can get with the airlines.

Regarding OAT...I've traveled with them 3 times: Egypt, Tanzania, and Costa Rica. The home office people are NOT the easiest to work with and you have to watch them carefully. On the Tanzania trip, they tried to book one of our people back to Seattle instead of Houston, where she originated. They also misspelled her name on her air ticket and didn't want to fix it. If you can survive the Boston office screw-ups, however, they have GREAT in-country people. The tours were great and the tour leaders exceptional.

Roccco

Wow, did I read that correctly???

Out of 1,176 Travel Agencies / Tour Operators, only OAT/Grand Circle had more than 100 complaints in the last 36 months??? Only five others had in the 26-99 complaints range???

1,033 out of the 1,176 had NO complaints, and of the remaining 143, 113 had 4 complaints or less.

Patty

Current lowest published fares on NW for LAX-JRO are approx $1850 (low season) and $2300 (high season) including taxes. This is what you'd pay if you booked the airfare yourself provided there is Q seat availability.

Ry2two

Just weighing in. I have taken several OAT trips, and have been happy with all of them. This BBB info is bothersome, though. I'm wondering if so many issues have arisen because this company is mammoth and deals with thousands of travelers each year. Rather than deal with the number of concerns, it would be interesting to know what percentage of the clients registered problems. I notice that their website shows that for 2005, OAT comes in with the top 15 of Travel + Leisure's Tour and Safari Outfitters awards. The company also integrates a lot of cultural contact with the local people and it also gives back to the areas visited through support of schools, orphanages, etc. There have been a few times when circumstances beyond the company's control have dictated that the exact itinerary be modified, but the guides we have had have been tireless in trying to arrange the best and most satisfying substitute arrangements withing their power. Of course, not all tour guides will give 100 per cent and some will have attitudes. That's human nature, but it can make or break a trip for the group. This is where the post trip evaluations come in. It has been my impression that OAT takes these seriously. Being an OAT tour guide, especially in developing countries or in those countries having depressed economies, is a position to be sought after and protected. Since it allows for financial security in places where it isn't so easy to make a living, it would be crazy to a guide not to do his level best to please. Those who do not have others waiting to take their places.
I have found OAT to be a sound company which provides a rich variety of small group experiences for its clients at affordable prices. These are just my thoughts and experiences, but I felt I needed to add this information to help achieve some balance here.

Roccco

Well, it seems that OAT, rather than satisfactorily address the complaints, have allowed them to go unsatisfied, thus falling into the bad graces of the BBB. Being the ONLY company with more than 100 complaints speaks for itself, especially when 88% of the other companies did not receive a single complaint and 97.5% of the companies received four complaints or less.

Ry2two

I understand what you're saying, Rocco, and I certainly don't want to endorse a company which rips off its clients, directly or indirectly. But, once again, given the company's size, rather than look at the number of complaints, I'd still be interested in the percentage. Also, the nature of the complaints. It's just that I have traveled with them several times, and I feel I got more than my money's worth. Certainly I might have had more deluxe trips were I to have arranged, let's say, my own private safari, but for several hundred dollars (even thousands whe you consider airfare) I feel that OAT has been a wonderful resource for me and has allowed me more trips than I otherwise could afford to take. All of these within a small group context.

climbhighsleeplow

Ry2two

I can only speak for East Africa. Please don't think that a private safari in East Africa for 2 (including airfare) is necessarily more expensive than a OAT group safari!

This is a huge misconception that we should bury deep once and for all.

I claim that you can have a more luxurious Tanzania safari for less than an OAT group tour.

Enjoying the company of others on safari is a completely different matter and I don't have any issues with someone doing a group tour for this and other reasons. But please please let's STOP spreading the misinformation that these tours are cheaper than the rest!

ShayTay

Could you price that out, Eben? I'm not saying you couldn't do it, but the sticking point, in my mind, is always the airfare. Right now on Kayak, the absolute cheapest flight from LAX to JRO on August 19 is on American and Ethiopian airlines, hopscotching through Rome and Ethiopia for $2621. The OAT tour leaving on that date is $4695 plus taxes and fees ($200?) and uses KLM. I suppose you could come up with a $2000 two-week Tanzania safari, including a mobile tented camp in the Serengeti for 4 days, but it would be tight.

Ry2two also makes a valid point about percentages. They book thousands, not hundreds of travelers. Like I said, my experience with the Boston office has not been positive, but the people in-country have been great.

Patty

OAT's pricing may benefit late planners as there's not much airline competition into JRO, so booking air at this late date for an August trip would be costly and/or you'd end up with a convoluted routing.

However, change the departure date and the equation may be different. I don't think it's always cheaper to do it one way or the other, which is what I think you're both trying to say.

Calling the OAT Tanzania itinerary a two week safari is a bit inaccurate though. I love how these companies include the departure and arrival days in the US. In actuality, it's a 9 night safaris plus 2 nights in Arusha plus travel days.

Roccco

Another thing to consider with OAT, is that with their group size they still require a certain sized camp.

During my stay at Mbuzi Mawe, there was an OAT group present, and I must say that Mbuzi Mawe was the least favorite of all the camps I had visited (Tarangire Treetops, Lake Manyara Tree Lodge, Ngorongoro Crater Lodge and Nomad Serengeti Mobile Camp).

These other camps would not even be booked by OAT, in all likelihood, and I personally try to keep my own clients away from camps that may host any large groups such as OAT.

lovetodiscover

Keeping it in context - does not look good based on BBB reports. However - here's a few more facts:

None of the businesses listed below are members of BBB:
A&K
MT Sobek
Micato
Tauck
.... check others

OAT / Grand Circle accepted membership in acknowledging they would raise themselves to a high standard. Did not work out, evidently. Do credit a business that will hold themselves to a higher standard and open the doors for critique.

Since OAT is no longer a member of BBB they may not be responding to BBB in timeframes stated, while/yet addressing issues directly with customers themselves. Customer complaints issed to BBB are not allowed to be changed once issued. There are unknowns.

The pricing from OAT is extremely price competitive with airfare included. Look forward to seeing a competitive internal safari that can compete. OAT definitely has advantage with business volume.