Help - Need Safari Critique
Oct 15th, 2007, 07:29 PM
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Help - Need Safari Critique
My wife anbd I are headed to Capetown in early September 2008. Based on the recomendations of this listsevre we have been working with CCafrica for planning teh safari.
This i what is planned at the moment:
5 nights - Capetown (have to do this due to a meeting and FF Miles
then the safari portion
South Africa
3 nights - Kwandwe Great Fish River Lodge
3 nights - Phinda Forest lodge
3 nights - Kirkman's Camp in Sabi Sand by Kruger Natl Park
1 night - at the J airport
BOTSWANA
2 nights - Victoria Falls in Livingston
2 nights - Chobe in the Okabvango Delta
2 nights - Sandibe Safari Lodge near Moremi Wildlife Reserve
So the big question is it just too much?
Will we get "game fatigue?
Are these different areas so different that you do not feel it is more of the same (like driving through the California Redwoods)
Any suggestions on what we should change if anything?
If we drop something what should we drop? The CCafrica person says the best thing to drop is Phinda yet i the booklets Phinda seems really special.
Also, we were considering switing some dates for a Ngala walking trour but I have a back that can't handle director chairs so would that he agood idea?
Would like comments quicjly as we need to book our return FF ticket and finalize our plan from there. Thanks.
By the way, all the Fodorite help on securing a FF ticket was great. We used Alaska Airline miles to get a Business Class ticket on British air. They are not charging extra to rebook the return.
This i what is planned at the moment:
5 nights - Capetown (have to do this due to a meeting and FF Miles
then the safari portion
South Africa
3 nights - Kwandwe Great Fish River Lodge
3 nights - Phinda Forest lodge
3 nights - Kirkman's Camp in Sabi Sand by Kruger Natl Park
1 night - at the J airport
BOTSWANA
2 nights - Victoria Falls in Livingston
2 nights - Chobe in the Okabvango Delta
2 nights - Sandibe Safari Lodge near Moremi Wildlife Reserve
So the big question is it just too much?
Will we get "game fatigue?
Are these different areas so different that you do not feel it is more of the same (like driving through the California Redwoods)
Any suggestions on what we should change if anything?
If we drop something what should we drop? The CCafrica person says the best thing to drop is Phinda yet i the booklets Phinda seems really special.
Also, we were considering switing some dates for a Ngala walking trour but I have a back that can't handle director chairs so would that he agood idea?
Would like comments quicjly as we need to book our return FF ticket and finalize our plan from there. Thanks.
By the way, all the Fodorite help on securing a FF ticket was great. We used Alaska Airline miles to get a Business Class ticket on British air. They are not charging extra to rebook the return.
Oct 15th, 2007, 09:24 PM
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We spent 10 days on safari and I wished we had a few more days. I definitely did not get game fatigue. Also, we spent 5 nights in Cape Town and the winelands, and would have been perfectly happy to spend more time there too.
I didn't go to most of the lodges on your itinerary, but I did go to Phinda. I loved, loved, loved it. Because there are six different ecosystems in the reserve, I found it to be very different than Sabi Sands, and the game viewing was the best of the entire trip.
I haven't finished my trip report, but I've completed about half our stay at Phinda: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35058301
Atravelynn spent a week at Forest this summer, so you might want to read her report. It's titled something like Phinda where the H is silent but the rhino flatulence is not.
I didn't go to most of the lodges on your itinerary, but I did go to Phinda. I loved, loved, loved it. Because there are six different ecosystems in the reserve, I found it to be very different than Sabi Sands, and the game viewing was the best of the entire trip.
I haven't finished my trip report, but I've completed about half our stay at Phinda: http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=35058301
Atravelynn spent a week at Forest this summer, so you might want to read her report. It's titled something like Phinda where the H is silent but the rhino flatulence is not.
Oct 16th, 2007, 08:50 AM
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Have you had a chance to look at the trip report index for Southern Africa?
Here's the link:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34858382
I don't think you're spending too many nights on safari. We stayed at Phinda last year and, like Hills, loved it. We then went to Londolozi and Ngala Tented. It was a good variety of camps and landscapes.
I've only been on the one trip, so my advice is not "expert" but I wonder why you are going to both Kwandwe and Phinda. I would pick one, and add some days to Botswana or the Sabi Sands.
In Botswana, if you want to stay at a CCAfrica camp, instead of Sandibe you might consider Nxabega, where you could have the experience of staying in tented accommodations.
What are your goals for the trip and what animals are you most interested in seeing? Botswana offers different experiences and you should choose camps that will give you what you want.
Can't help with the director's chair question. Why don't you ask your TA if a more supportive chair could be provided for you.
CW
Here's the link:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34858382
I don't think you're spending too many nights on safari. We stayed at Phinda last year and, like Hills, loved it. We then went to Londolozi and Ngala Tented. It was a good variety of camps and landscapes.
I've only been on the one trip, so my advice is not "expert" but I wonder why you are going to both Kwandwe and Phinda. I would pick one, and add some days to Botswana or the Sabi Sands.
In Botswana, if you want to stay at a CCAfrica camp, instead of Sandibe you might consider Nxabega, where you could have the experience of staying in tented accommodations.
What are your goals for the trip and what animals are you most interested in seeing? Botswana offers different experiences and you should choose camps that will give you what you want.
Can't help with the director's chair question. Why don't you ask your TA if a more supportive chair could be provided for you.
CW
Oct 16th, 2007, 04:29 PM
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CW's question on trip and wildlife goals is a good one to see if these places match up with what you want.
Game fatigue? Most of us cannot fathom such a thing, but there is variety in these locations to help prevent it.
Looks like a super trip.
More specifically:
Kwandwe—I have no knowledge of this place. Because of that, I would take these nights and put them elsewhere, at places I am familiar with. I would be interested in learning more about Kwandwe, though, and why it was suggested.
Phinda Forest—Spent a week here and loved it. This is where I’d add one of the Kwandwe days and here’s why: This is a cheetah conservation area, but you could need several days to see them. It took until the morning of Day 5 for me to see the first daylight sighting of a cheetah. I saw 7 cheetah sightings over the week. But I was doing other activities in the mornings that made finding cheetahs less likely. I did 3 rhino tracking trips (on foot) that were outstanding. I also did a beautiful canoe trip one afternoon—pm is better than am due to lighting. At Phinda there are 7 activities you can do besides regular safaris. Some of these are village visits, which I did, and walks, a plane safari, horseback riding, etc. All these activities will prevent safari fatigue. To do all this cool stuff, 4 days may be needed. If you would like a link to my Phinda report, I’ll put it in.
Kirkman’s—Spent 4 nights at the neighboring Mala Mala and loved it. Kirkman’s has some limited traversing rights on MM property and I spent time on Kirkman’s property and saw abundant game. This will be your wildlife extravaganza. Because of the good game, I’d do 4 nights here. If you would like a link to my Mala Mala, report, I’ll put it in. There are lots of posts on Mala Mala, which is right next door to Kirkman’s. Don’t know the pricing difference, but I’d certainly recommend MM, unless you specifically wanted Kirkman’s.
Joburg Airport—where are you staying?
Vic Falls—Ilala was a fine place to stay and not the highest cost. 2 nights here is good. There are many things you can do in Vic Falls in addition to viewing the falls
Chobe—2 nights here is good. The Chobe River sunset cruise is spectacular for wildlife viewing. This will be unique in your itinerary and different from a regular drive. You can also do daytime cruises on the river. Chobe can be more crowded than the other areas, but I really liked it and want to return.
Sandibe—I’ve stayed nearby at Chitabe, but Sandibe has water activities, so you can do a Mekoro trip. Check if it is available during the time of year you are going. This is a good game area. I’d add one of the Kwandwe days here for a total of 3. You will not venture into Moremi most likely, just so you are aware. It is a separate reserve that is not fenced off but rules prevent going in.
I am not sure how my suggestions would affect the pricing. I have a feeling Kwandwe is less expensive than the other places. But not going there would reduce transportation costs. Again, nothing against Kwandwe, I just don't know about it.
Game fatigue? Most of us cannot fathom such a thing, but there is variety in these locations to help prevent it.
Looks like a super trip.
More specifically:
Kwandwe—I have no knowledge of this place. Because of that, I would take these nights and put them elsewhere, at places I am familiar with. I would be interested in learning more about Kwandwe, though, and why it was suggested.
Phinda Forest—Spent a week here and loved it. This is where I’d add one of the Kwandwe days and here’s why: This is a cheetah conservation area, but you could need several days to see them. It took until the morning of Day 5 for me to see the first daylight sighting of a cheetah. I saw 7 cheetah sightings over the week. But I was doing other activities in the mornings that made finding cheetahs less likely. I did 3 rhino tracking trips (on foot) that were outstanding. I also did a beautiful canoe trip one afternoon—pm is better than am due to lighting. At Phinda there are 7 activities you can do besides regular safaris. Some of these are village visits, which I did, and walks, a plane safari, horseback riding, etc. All these activities will prevent safari fatigue. To do all this cool stuff, 4 days may be needed. If you would like a link to my Phinda report, I’ll put it in.
Kirkman’s—Spent 4 nights at the neighboring Mala Mala and loved it. Kirkman’s has some limited traversing rights on MM property and I spent time on Kirkman’s property and saw abundant game. This will be your wildlife extravaganza. Because of the good game, I’d do 4 nights here. If you would like a link to my Mala Mala, report, I’ll put it in. There are lots of posts on Mala Mala, which is right next door to Kirkman’s. Don’t know the pricing difference, but I’d certainly recommend MM, unless you specifically wanted Kirkman’s.
Joburg Airport—where are you staying?
Vic Falls—Ilala was a fine place to stay and not the highest cost. 2 nights here is good. There are many things you can do in Vic Falls in addition to viewing the falls
Chobe—2 nights here is good. The Chobe River sunset cruise is spectacular for wildlife viewing. This will be unique in your itinerary and different from a regular drive. You can also do daytime cruises on the river. Chobe can be more crowded than the other areas, but I really liked it and want to return.
Sandibe—I’ve stayed nearby at Chitabe, but Sandibe has water activities, so you can do a Mekoro trip. Check if it is available during the time of year you are going. This is a good game area. I’d add one of the Kwandwe days here for a total of 3. You will not venture into Moremi most likely, just so you are aware. It is a separate reserve that is not fenced off but rules prevent going in.
I am not sure how my suggestions would affect the pricing. I have a feeling Kwandwe is less expensive than the other places. But not going there would reduce transportation costs. Again, nothing against Kwandwe, I just don't know about it.
Oct 16th, 2007, 05:09 PM
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Lynn's right, the cheetahs are spectacular and you should give yourself enough time to make sure you see them. That being said, I saw 14 cheetah in 3 game drives (starting on the second afternoon), so it all depends.
Also, Phinda has so many different ecosystems, that it's hard to fit it all in in 3 days. I stayed 6 nights and could have stayed for more.
If you add a night, you may also think about splitting your stay at Phinda between two lodges (one north, one south). The transfer is an easy drive and becomes a mid-day game drive in itself.
Also, Phinda has so many different ecosystems, that it's hard to fit it all in in 3 days. I stayed 6 nights and could have stayed for more.
If you add a night, you may also think about splitting your stay at Phinda between two lodges (one north, one south). The transfer is an easy drive and becomes a mid-day game drive in itself.
Oct 16th, 2007, 06:04 PM
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Gosh, I don't know about Kwandwe, but it sounds like the rest of your excellent itinerary gives you very different experiences. Chobe should be loaded with (thousands) of elephants in Sept.
And asking fodorites about getting "game fatigue" is like asking Michael Jackson if you're having too much plastic surgery!
Leslie
And asking fodorites about getting "game fatigue" is like asking Michael Jackson if you're having too much plastic surgery!
Leslie
Oct 16th, 2007, 06:15 PM
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I was aksed about where we are staying at Jburg airport. right now it is some place called Intercontinental Airport Sun. We'd welcome any suggestions.
Based on comments we are thinking of dropping Kwandwe, doing 4 nights at Phinda (north and south, changing Victoria falls to Matasi Water Lodge and doing "Chobe under canvas"
Are 2 days enough for Vic Falls if we are doing all this other stuff?
thoughts?
Based on comments we are thinking of dropping Kwandwe, doing 4 nights at Phinda (north and south, changing Victoria falls to Matasi Water Lodge and doing "Chobe under canvas"
Are 2 days enough for Vic Falls if we are doing all this other stuff?
thoughts?
Oct 16th, 2007, 06:42 PM
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Also, you might want to splurge for two of those nights at Phinda and stay at one of the smaller lodges (e.g. Rock in the South or Vlei in the north). Personally, I preferred Rock over Vlei. If you do decide on Rock, ask for room number 1.
Oct 16th, 2007, 06:51 PM
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You need more than just two nights in the Chobe area. The area will be prolific with gameviewing in September. Elephant numbers you can't believe!!!
Nxabega is more a birding camp, i think for delta ambience. For a first timer, you may as well stick to Sandibe as it borders Chitabe and chances for more prolific game.
Nxabega is more a birding camp, i think for delta ambience. For a first timer, you may as well stick to Sandibe as it borders Chitabe and chances for more prolific game.
Oct 17th, 2007, 03:43 PM
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I've been only once, so take this only as a suggestion, but if it's your first time to Southern Africa, I'd go see Vic Falls. I too would stay on the Zimbabwe side. In Zambia, the Royal Livingston is very nice but pricey, if that's a concern. I saw no tour groups there, FYI. But the sundowner river cruises nearby are fun, even though they're touristy. We saw lots of elephants swimming across the Zambezi, an amazing sight. And the Royal L. has a fabulous deck for taking cocktails and watching the sunset and the hippos.
At Phinda, lots of posters here recommend Forest Lodge. We stayed at Mountain Lodge, and it was fine, but I'd have preferred Forest.
In Chobe, we stayed at the Chobe Game Lodge, the only hotel inside the sgame park, a definite advantage. Food and service was so-so, but rooms are large and comfortable and have amazing views of the river and game, and you can do river cruises from there and avoid the crowds. I would do 3 nights in Chobe, as Hari suggested.
Leslie
At Phinda, lots of posters here recommend Forest Lodge. We stayed at Mountain Lodge, and it was fine, but I'd have preferred Forest.
In Chobe, we stayed at the Chobe Game Lodge, the only hotel inside the sgame park, a definite advantage. Food and service was so-so, but rooms are large and comfortable and have amazing views of the river and game, and you can do river cruises from there and avoid the crowds. I would do 3 nights in Chobe, as Hari suggested.
Leslie
Oct 17th, 2007, 03:58 PM
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I think you have improved the itinerary.
Southern Sun is a good choice at Joburg, is that it? It is where I have stayed several times. Matnikstym just gave it a thumbs up in his report.
I agree with Hari that 2 nights is all you need in Vic Falls if the main purpose is to see the falls. If it is the only purpose, then you can take one of the two Vic Falls nights and add it to Chobe. There are so many activities from white water rafting to bungee jumps to a crocodile farm to helicopter rides that you could spend many days in Vic Falls. I prefer to just enjoy the falls in their natural setting and forego the rest.
Southern Sun is a good choice at Joburg, is that it? It is where I have stayed several times. Matnikstym just gave it a thumbs up in his report.
I agree with Hari that 2 nights is all you need in Vic Falls if the main purpose is to see the falls. If it is the only purpose, then you can take one of the two Vic Falls nights and add it to Chobe. There are so many activities from white water rafting to bungee jumps to a crocodile farm to helicopter rides that you could spend many days in Vic Falls. I prefer to just enjoy the falls in their natural setting and forego the rest.
Oct 18th, 2007, 07:39 AM
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Since you've gotten a few 'don't know anything about Kwandwe' comments, I thought I'd chime in.
It's a great place and I heartily recommend it. My wife and I spend 5 days there and enjoyed every minute of it. A great place, tons of game and very private. At the time we were there, there were only 12 guests (now they can take up to around 35).
Great guides, good food... very personal. Our group wanted to spend more time on game drives than 'haning out', so while others were on drives from say 7am - 10am (and back for breakfast), we would head out at 6 and come back at around 11... we were always late for dinner as well.
If you have an option, ask for Mac (guide) and Doc (tracker). Both were excellent.
It's a great place and I heartily recommend it. My wife and I spend 5 days there and enjoyed every minute of it. A great place, tons of game and very private. At the time we were there, there were only 12 guests (now they can take up to around 35).
Great guides, good food... very personal. Our group wanted to spend more time on game drives than 'haning out', so while others were on drives from say 7am - 10am (and back for breakfast), we would head out at 6 and come back at around 11... we were always late for dinner as well.
If you have an option, ask for Mac (guide) and Doc (tracker). Both were excellent.
Oct 18th, 2007, 07:59 AM
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The 'standard' elephants, cheetah (with cubs), lions (with cubs), wildebeast, cape buffalo, white and black rhino, smaller antelope and deer (referred to as 'cat food'), a wide variety of birds, a few different species of monkey, giraffe, ardwolf, turtles, meerkat, hyena...
The variety and quantity was great, and the setting was terrific.
Also, since you have the place to yourselves, you can do most anything... we did evening/night safaris (with red lights) to see the nocturnal animals and the lions at night (got up really close). Also followed around a group of 3 cheetahs as they stalked a heard of wildebeast for about an hour. The wildebeasts finally turned around and faced the cheetahs, dug in and held their ground (snorting and pawing the ground). Awesome display.
We have been to Kenya previously (so this was not our 1st safari) and we were happy to have gone to Kwandwe.
The variety and quantity was great, and the setting was terrific.
Also, since you have the place to yourselves, you can do most anything... we did evening/night safaris (with red lights) to see the nocturnal animals and the lions at night (got up really close). Also followed around a group of 3 cheetahs as they stalked a heard of wildebeast for about an hour. The wildebeasts finally turned around and faced the cheetahs, dug in and held their ground (snorting and pawing the ground). Awesome display.
We have been to Kenya previously (so this was not our 1st safari) and we were happy to have gone to Kwandwe.
Oct 18th, 2007, 08:15 AM
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CORRUPTED KENYA AIRWAYS
Posted: Thu October 18, 2007 03:49 PM UTC
WARNING: Stay away from Kenya Airways... They overbook their flights, and DO NOT REFUND you for any compansation whatsoever.. We booked our flight over 9 months ago with them, and upon check in, they advised us that the overbooked and we were bumped. We lost over 7000$ USD because of their irresponsible behaviour and they refuse to compensate any of it. We were stuck in the Nairobi terminal with no food, water or any telephone to call our agent for over 9 hours!!! YOu are better off flying with a reputable provider that will not ruin your holiday and will actually comply with it's reservation policies. The staff were unhelpful, rude, lying and overall, the don't deserve to be the "Pride of Africa" more the " Shame of Africa". We were two out of several people who got bumped from this flight. All of us who didn't get refunded or a simple sorry. STAY AWAY from this airline from hell!
Posted: Thu October 18, 2007 03:49 PM UTC
WARNING: Stay away from Kenya Airways... They overbook their flights, and DO NOT REFUND you for any compansation whatsoever.. We booked our flight over 9 months ago with them, and upon check in, they advised us that the overbooked and we were bumped. We lost over 7000$ USD because of their irresponsible behaviour and they refuse to compensate any of it. We were stuck in the Nairobi terminal with no food, water or any telephone to call our agent for over 9 hours!!! YOu are better off flying with a reputable provider that will not ruin your holiday and will actually comply with it's reservation policies. The staff were unhelpful, rude, lying and overall, the don't deserve to be the "Pride of Africa" more the " Shame of Africa". We were two out of several people who got bumped from this flight. All of us who didn't get refunded or a simple sorry. STAY AWAY from this airline from hell!
Oct 18th, 2007, 08:24 AM
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Hey KQ - instead of spouting drivel in every Africa thread, how about giving some of the specifics about your problem and how it cost you $7000?
I've flown Kenya Air and found them to be very professional.
I've flown Kenya Air and found them to be very professional.
