dgunbug

We are still hoping to travel to Thailand at the end of January, but are considering a plan B in the event we cannot. We have 3 weeks on land and would like to incorporate Cambodia with our Plan B. Since we fly into Korea with Korean Air with frequent flyer miles, we figure we will either use our miles or pay the difference to a location other than Bangkok if need be.

So, the big question is - where do most fodorites that have spent extensive time in this region of the world recommend going to? This is our first Asian trip.

We are considering Vietnam, but wondered if there really is enough time to do Vietnam and Cambodia. If so, any recommendations on allocation of time?

Are there places you would recommend over Vietnam?

Thanks for any advise.

Kathie

No question, there is plenty to do/see in VN. But VN is still rather rough around the edges. If you've not been to Asia before it may not be the best place to start.

What about a Cambodia/Laos trip?

Or, I expect that Korean Air flies into Singapore (and would be willing to change your ticket) - you could visit Indonesia, perhaps Bali/Lombok. Note that Silk Air flies to Siem Reap from Singapore, so changing your flight from bangkok to Singapore would likely work well.

There are lots of interesting places to visit in Malaysia as well.

Hopefully, all will be calm in Thailand by the time of your trip, bit is not, there are lots of options.

dgunbug

Kathie - We had first considered Cambodia and Laos, but Korean Air does not fly into Laos and to get there would be too costly and time consuming. While this is our first trip to SE Asia, we are not afraid of roughing it a bit. We do not stay in 5 star hotels, so that's not what we are expecting. We do like foreign and we are both adventurous. We are not big shoppers and we are not looking for a beach vacation as we have the beach in our own backyard in Florida, but would rather visit a country with a very different culture and way of life than ours. With this in mind what would you recommend?

Guenmai

Bali. Happy Travels!

glorialf

Vietnam and Cambodia would be perfect for three weeks.

Kathie

It sounds like VN and Cambodia would be a nice combination for you. Be aware that you must have a visa in advance for VN, but can get a pre-approved visa online.

dgunbug

Kathie - I just read Nywoman's report on Vietnam and I now understand why you said it may not be the best Asian place to start at. Nevertheless I don't think that will be a big deterrent as we are up to the challenge and the chaotic craziness.

Gloria & Kathie - do you have favorite places in Vietnam? Given our time frame, do you have any suggestions on how to best break up the travel days? Also, what is your opinion on the sleeper trains (if we can get the first class soft sleeper)?

It looks like we have a lot of reading and planning to do. What are your thoughts on Thailand settling down by the end of January. Things are looking increasingly scary there.

June

Kathie

I'm glad you had Nywoman's report to read.

Most people much prefer Hanoi to HCMC, but Nywoman had the opposite experience - a good reminder that people like different things.

Weather in VN is often an issue as different areas of the country are impacted by different monsoon systems. So go to www.weatherbase.com and look at Hanoi, Hue and Hoi An and HCMC for January and February, as weather may well influence your decisions about where to go.

With three weeks, I'd spend a week in Cambodia, then the other two in VN. Consider both the cities and the surrounding area. So, if you visit HCMC, you might enjoy a couple of days in the delta. If you visit Hanoi, consider Halong Bay and Sapa, although it will be cool-cold in those areas (so you might opt to skip those).

I haven't taken the sleeper trains, but I know there are some reports here.

Kathie

As far as what will happen in Thailand... I expect there will be some movement soon with the court decision due this week and the upcoming King's birthday speech.

Take a look at this NYT article
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/02/wo...ml?_r=1&hp

Jim0884

My flight to BKK leaves (well...) on 15 December. Doesn't look good, does it? I wonder if United will just stop flying there for a time. Unfortunately can't change cities, as my significant other lives in BKK. Hmmm...try to fly into Chiang Mai and take the bus? Should be an adventure

dgunbug

Kathie - We already have checked on the weather as we figured that may be an issue. While we would like to see the area Northwest of Hanoi, due to the temperatures we will avoid that area on this trip. Besides, there is plenty to see between Hanoi and Saigon. It will be pleasantly cool in Hanoi while warm in Saigon, but I don't think we will have to worry a lot about rains. Halong Bay will be a definite on the itinerary as well as Hue and Hoi An. We'd like to try for a day trip into the Delta region as well. The big problem will be that we arrive around Tet and I'm not sure if we will need to pre-reserve all our hotels, etc. While we often "wing it" in our travels, making hotel reservations the night before on the internet, I'm concerned that this may not be possible with the Vietnamese holidays at that time. Of even more of a concern is the transportation at that time. Of course this is all predicated on even being able to get a flight into Hanoi. We already have our flight booked out of Siem Reap. As you have suggested, we had already designated 1 week for travel in Cambodia and I'm thinking probably out of that we will do 2 days in Phenom Pen and 5 in Siem Reap. Is 2 days enough in Phenon Pen? Like you, I could spend my entire trip wandering around the ruins. Do you think we need to firm up dates and hotels in advance due to the holidays? If so, any suggestions on how long to stay in each place? Has anyone used bus transportation in Vietnam recently? Is this a viable option?

Also, does anyone have recommendations on any guides in Vietnam? Are they necessary or can one wing it on their own?

Crossing the streets sounds horrifying, but I guess people manage...as I'm sure we will be able to.

Still hoping for things to settle down in Thailand although they don't appear to be doing that. Any help you or anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated.

June

dogster

O.K. Dgun: let's think about your problem. Remember, I don't know much about you - but any woman who would marry a crazy man like your husband HAS to be a glutton for punishment. heh. Therefore a crazy trip would be good.

It's kinda hard to work out your budget. But it seems you're cutting out options 'cos of this Korean Air connection. Use your points to get to Korea then Hanoi or BKK. After that use regional airlines in Asia. They're amazingly cheap.

First trip, 3 weeks: O.K.

Despite what everybody says here, I reckon you need a 'tasting menu'. Lots of things in rapid succession. Rapid immersion therapy. Lots of different experiences, made suitably easy for old geezers like your mad husband and the Dog. Yep, you won't have an in depth experience. O.K. who cares? Taste the great Asian smorgasbord.

Travelling day - Hanoi 1 night
Hanoi: 3 nights [3 full days]
Halong Bay: 2 nights

www.bhayacruises.com

Travel day fly direct Hanoi - Luang Prabang
Luang Prabang 3 nights, 3 full days
Add some kind of Mekong adventure, river, jungle camp, elephanty thing. 2 nights.

Luang Prabang - Siem Reap. [yup, there's a flight easy.]

[two options here - you could spend a night in Vientiane [quite boring] on the way OR go via Pakse and hit this river trip, 2 nights.

www.asian-oasis.com/vat.html

Then on to Siem Reap or Phnom Penh.
Easy flights.
Think Phnom Penh just for fun.
P.P. 2 nights

then P.P. to Siem Reap by road OR grab a 2 night leg on a Pandaw between the two. [I'll tell you how to do this if it interests you.]

www.pandaw.com.
Then you're in Siem Reap.

You note I'm leaving out most of Vietnam. But, between you and me, it's not as good as the rest of Asia. Hanoi's the most fun bit.
I think Halong is a total drag unless you do two nights and go kayaking. Look at Bhaya cruises.

I'm also building in 'weekends' - a cruisy kinda thing gets you to places, shows you stuff, with absolutely no hasstle. You have to have EASY days or else you'll come back wreckage.

Tell me what you think. I don't want to hear twenty reasons why you CAN'T.

Yes, you CAN.

Kathie

As the time gets closer, and we see what happens in Thailand, you can make reservations. Given that you'll be there around Tet, I do think you'll need reservations for both hotels and transport.

In my experience, there was no need for a guide in Hanoi - very easy to do on your own. Anywhere you find you might want/need a guide, it will be easy to hire one. No need to plan ahead for that, IMO.

You'll learn to cross the street. And Vietnamese are accustomed to foreigners crossing with them. (It's a great way to learn how it works!) The rule is to walk deliberately, not changing direction or pace and - don't stop!

I think two days is enough for PP.

In VN, there are tourist mini-busses that get mixed reviews. Trains are an option (though I don't know about sleepers) and there are easy flights on VN Air and on a budget carrier whose name escapes me at present.

dgunbug

Dogster - Are you suggesting that we just want a "tasting menu"? We are ready to thoroughly immerse ourselves in Vietnam - at least for 2 weeks! It sounds like you don't care for VN though - am I reading you correctly? Do you think we should do Luang Prabang rather than going to Saigon and sites in between? I see that is doable. What does everyone else suggest? If we don't do Luang Prabang this time, we'll piggy back it with Thailand on the next trip. We await the wisdom of those who've traveled to this region before. Thanks - June

dgunbug

To continue my previous train of thought - we realize there are many options to explore and we really are seeking wisdom from those more experienced. We do not want to do a "if it's Monday it must be Hanoi" type of tour. So...options are -
1. Vietnam for 2 weeks/Cambodia 1 week
2. Southern VN only (Saigon/Delta area) with more extensive Cambodia trip saving Hanoi & Laos for another time (I know Dogster - you like Hanoi better - but logistically it is easier to combine Saigon with Cambodia)
3. Korea to Hong Kong or Shanghai - (would chose Beijing over Shanghia but it is probably too cold) Flight to Siem Reap or Phenom Pen and home from Siem Reap - skipping VN altogether
4. Tour as suggested by Dogster including Luang Prabang

Suggestions from anyone with experience would be greatly appreciated.

dogster

I'm not suggesting anything. A tasting menu is as honorable a holiday IMHO as an in-depth trawl. Different strokes...

If it were my first trip to Asia I'd do a tasting menu. It might be my last. I'd jump in and out of the most wonderful places and minimise the crap in between.

Immerse yourself if you want. Then your trip is easy. One country. Simple. But I'd be immersing myself in a culture that really interested me. It seems a bit like you're suddenly keen on immersion in Vietnam simply 'cos Korean airlines can get you there - which isn't a good enough reason IMHO.

I'm also bearing in mind that your questions have been [forgive me] a little naive in terms of what to expect in Asia - heat, bicycles, hotels, destination and, frankly, I'm trying to make it easier. It's bloody hot, crazy and difficult for a first-timer. I know you think you're both 25. lol. So am I - till I look in the mirror. It can be HARD work.

I don't care, really - anywhere in Asia is interesting if you've never seen any of it. Do it fast, do it slow - it's all an adventure.

And yup, personally, I find VN the least appealing of the Asian countries, aesthetically and food wise. But that's just me and I travel a lot. There's a thread on this not long ago for many opinions.

dogster

your second post crossed mine.

the most logical is 2. Easy.

Kathie

You've probably read Kathie's rules for good trip planning:

1. Know thyself.

2. Know thy destination.

I can't help with the first, but I (and others) can comment on destinations recognizing that what we like might not be what you like.

For me, if the choice were between Luang Prabang, Laos and VN, I'd opt for LP. We loved LP. You have to slow down to soak up the atmosphere. Wandering from wat to wat, chatting with monks and novices, long, lingering lunches on the balcony of the Villa Santi, watching children playing in the street...

But we also enjoyed Hanoi, the ordered chaos of VN. It's noisy - we didn't stay in old town (which is REALLY noisy) but I still remember waking up at 3 am and hearing the constant horns blowing.

Logistically, the combination of Cambodia and HCMC and the delta are easiest. But other options are certainly do-able.

dgunbug

Your opinions are definitely appreciated. This will definitely be the first of many trips to Asia - unless we die of heat exhaustion, lose all our money in the market or if something else happens of an unforeseeable nature (ie. failure to cross the street without getting run over). A lot will depend on where we can fly into and how flexible the airlines are. We are not unused to doing the unusual. In May we traveled for 3 weeks by car in Turkey when everyone said not to. It was a cinch and getting lost, dealing with the people and making our way around are all part of the joys of travel. We've traveled independently and without plans throughout Europe (which I understand is not Asia). Am I too naive? Perhaps. But we will learn through our experiences and we are not afraid to try.

Kathie

I think if you have the spirit of adventure, you'll have a great time. Sure, some things won't work and others will be better than you could have anticipated, and you'll make adjustments. I think you'll love Asia.