agapotravel

Thanks everybody!! Okay, I think I am getting the picture! Our flight gets in around 2 PM. Based on what everyone is saying, I feel like I should do St. Thomas first and then save St. John and the BVI for later.

So, 2 nights on St. Thomas, 4 nights on St. John, and 4 nights on Tortola or Virgin Gorda. Should I go to St. John or BVI first? Some suggested that I should end my trip in St. John, rather than BVI.

I am sooooo torn about Tortola or Virgin Gorda. It looks so beautiful on both places. I just feel like I won't be able to see as much if I make Virgin Gorda my "base". If I stay on Tortola, and do one full day to Virgin Gorda, one full day to Jost Van Dyke, and one full day to Anegada, is this okay?

Also for accommodations, I am getting so many great suggestions. One very important thing to remember....it MUST have A/C. My husband lets me do all the planning, but this is one thing he won't budge on....we're going in July, and it will be hot. Some of the villas/condos don't have A/C. I guess I would love to know the area I should be staying in and why. Is the Long Bay Beach Resort area bad on Tortola?

Thanks again for everything!!

beachplum

To answer your question there is a ferry to Peter Island from Tortola and they welcome daytrippers. You can walk up and over the hill to Deadman's Beach and have lunch or go over for dinner. White Bay at PIR is just a short ride (in their little carts) or a hike from Deadman's and is more secluded but the snorkeling is better at both ends there. It would not be a place that you would probably visit from Virgin Gorda since the beaches there as well as the choice of restaurants will keep you satisfied.
Agree that the Sugar Mill would be a great place on Tortola run by a wonderful couple and one of the best, if not the best restaurant. A spit of sand for a beach but that shouldn't be a problem if you are planning to head out each day anyway. Think that the Anegada ferry runs only two or three times a week but someone else might be able to help with that.
Check wheretostay.com and tripadvisor.com for any recent reviews of Long Bay. It's been many years since I was there and I just remember sitting on the beach looking at longing to be on St. John which I felt I could reach out and touch! (We were blown from St. John by a hurricane and chose LB as an option). Smugglers Cove is nearby but a long hot walk or a very very rough ride for swimming.
You will enjoy whatever you decide and it definitely is fun to compare the islands.
BTW, Blue Moon Cafe is at Secret Harbour and it is an excellent choice for dining. You can pick up a few things at the Food Store or in Red Hook at Marina Market if you want.
And, if you decide to go to Virgin Gorda for a day from Tortola, you might want to check out Spring Bay or Devils Bay since it is the same scenery without the crowds. Great beaches and good snorkeling at the Crawl at Spring Bay.

ejcrowe

mah1980, I'm not sure I can verbalize why I'm not interested in St. John. Part of it is the same hangup I have with Hawaii--I want to travel outside the US! Part of it is the lack of beachfront accommodations--with only two large resorts fitting that bill, it's kind of slim pickings. Part of it is my absurd notion of its popularity--I'd rather be difficult and go somewhere less popular, I guess. Not a single one of them a very good reason, I know. But part of it is also a feeling I have--if I had gone earlier, before the current development boom, before the locals were driven out because of high taxes and real estate prices, I'm suire I would have enjoyed it. Now, however, I'm a little reluctant to go. I have the same feelings about Provo. I haven't made it there yet, either, and I doubt that I will now.
Lots of people on this board for whom I have tremendous respect, including you, really like St. John, so part of me also thinks that I'm doing the whole "cutting off my nose to spite my face" routine. But deeper than that there's something a little unsettling about St. John that resonates with me. It's probably totally unfounded.

agapotravel, the Sugar Mill rooms on Tortola have air conditioning. The Long Bay resort isn't a bad area--it's essentially in the same area as Sugar Mill, it's on the same road just a little closer to Smuggler's Cove. And Long Bay definitely has the better beach, though we found the one at Sugar Mill to be perfectly adequate, as we were usually the only guests there. It's also a great place to learn how to snorkel, if you've never done it before.

If you're really going to do 3 different daytrips--to Jost, to VG, and to Anegada, then stay on Tortola. It will be definitely easier. However, you may be surprised to get down there and find that you've slowed down to island time, and that your 3 planned daytrips turn into just 2, or even 1. Just thinking about doing all of that leaves me feeling exhausted and dehydrated, but you could prove us all wrong by being on the go that much and actually thriving on it. Whatever you plan, have a great time. You're bound to, with the islands you're visiting.

brenandg

http://www.vinow.com/general_usvi/interisland_ferry/ Check out the ferry schedules as you plan your trip. They will dictate where and when you go. I agree Tortola is a good base for BVI hopping.

katt919

Just got back from St. Thomas. Will NEVER go back. While our hotel was fine, (Marriott, the MorningStar portion, not Frenchman's reef) All of the other hotels on the island with the exception of the Ritz are DUMPS and absolute pits of despair. They're also all in really shady areas, so you'll either get car-jacked or robbed.
Rent a car just on St. Thomas. Take the car ferry from Red Hook for $50 you can use the same car on St. John as St. Thomas. If you don't have a car, it costs too much to take a cab anyway, and the cabbies are all probably criminals anyway who are in on all the car-jackings.

The only must-see on St. Thomas is Magan's bay..you'll see enough rats just getting there. Coral World is a waste of money. It's really the dumpiest island on the face of the earth.

The 3 best beaches on St. John from an American who has lived there for 20 years are Hawksnest, Cinnamon, and Trunk (Trunk will be super busy and the reef is basically dead, but you still have to see it)

The Caneel bay hotel on St. John does not have telephones or Tv's..so I'd stay at the Westin. It's not bad..crappy beach though.

As for restaurants on St. Thomas..good luck. The rats eat better than the humans do. The people are ALL lazy and slow and get your orders wrong every time. The food is crappy and expensive. I ate chicken wings every day and Wendy's 5x when we were down there. Don't trust Fodor's book for the St. Thomas restaurants. They are places in shacks in the ghetto. You'll get stabbed and get a bacterial infection from your food. There are NO nice places to eat on the island of St. Thomas except for maybe the Ritz, but you're paying for over-priced crap. We ended up buying deli-meat and wraps and making our own food for a few days.

The people all have attitudes when you ask them for something and they roll their eyes and go off in a huff. They do not say your welcome or thank you or any pleasantries. . . we have never tipped people so low in our entire lives. . . but they don't even deserve it. Good luck. You're going to need it.

St. John was a much nicer island than St. Thomas..between people smoking dope on the streets to seeing crack dens right outside of hotel entrances...it was a real awakening.

tewels

I have been to all of the places you mention. I tend to agree with other posters, in that on a 11 day trip, you might be trying to do to much. NOt sure where you are traveling from, but I takes me an 2 flights and a ferry to get to St. John from Texas. So, pretty much your first and last day are traveling. So, that puts you down to 9 days. I would tend to drop of St. Thomas first, unless you love to shop. It does have its charms if you get away from town, just not as much as Tortola and St. John.

Since you mention hiking, I would maybe spend more time in St. John. There are some of the most beautiful hikes in the world there, and i have hiked almost all of them. We always rent a jeep and a house and pretend we live there. Be sure to do the Reef Bay hike in St. John. Best value on the island as far as tours go.

If you go to Tortola, try to catch the full Moon Party at the Bomba Shack.

And one more thing, I wouldn't get to jazzed about the food in any of these locations. Its just okay. But you will be there for the beaches and beautiful water, not the food... right?

Good luck!

missDIVAstar

I too HIGHLY suggest spending time in Virgin Gorda. I spent 8 days there the past January at Mango Bay resort in which they had been doing many renovations so it is probably quite lovely now. Virgin Gorda is very sleepy which I perfer to the now croweded and over-populated Tortola but if you're looking for rest and relaxation and have a sense of adventure it will make a wonderful spot -- Skip the baths and rent a car, drive over to Mango Bay and beyond even if you aren't staying there for some of the best deserted beaches and breathtaking vistas. The food on the island is not that good and really expensive so I suggest renting a small villa either at Mango Bay or in the vicinity and buying food in town. I cannot express enough how lovely Virgin Gorda is -- if you're looking for friendly people, peace and quiet and a real island atmosphere.

tewels

EJ-
I have seen your name on this post for a long time, and you have given me some good advice. Now here's mine for you. You are going to have to give St. John some love. Just imagine a nicer Tortola in a nut shell. Delete the cows and goats and add donkeys. Yes, its largly owned by rich Americans, but it's the National Park that makes all the difference. No buildings on the beaches.
True, your villa will more than likely not be on the beach, but it really is an enchanting place. Just load your jeep every morning, and explore. Please, just once!

mah1980

Emily--I hear you. It's funny you mentioned all the locals being pushed off the island. When we visited in August, we had a good conversation with a local (meaning born and raised on STJ, not a continental American) who was telling us about a controversial new tax assessment that raised property values significantly. He said that locals' homes are now being valued much higher than previously, which he thinks will cause many to sell.

My thoughts--I felt like Provo had much more tension as a result of the real estate boom than St. John. Although STJ is a US territory, I felt like Provo could have been in Florida. STJ, however, felt more island-like to me, probably due to the lush vegetation.

While there is a visible wealthy American contingency on St. John, we had the opportunity to have good conversations with locals. I felt like we were someone different--and there was the best of both worlds in terms of efficiency and island time.

I read your recent trip report re Virgin Gorda with interest. Did you ever get an opportunity to look at the Virgin Oriental villa? Or Mango Bay? I would love to go to Virgin Gorda possibly in 2009 (we are going to France in May 2008!).

agapotravel

Thanks everyone! Now that I have lots of resources and information, I think I am going to buckle down, buy a few boosk, and research, research, research. I must admit that katt919 scared me a little bit about St. Thomas. Is it really that bad? I will post a more finalized itinerary later. I appreciate all of your help and advice.

katt919

I'm sorry to scare you, and I'm not a picky traveler, but yes, it really IS that bad. There's no place to eat, do not trust the Fodor's guide book. We ate at "the shipwreck tavern" and we saw rats the size of a shoe box just waltzing right in. Yes- the people REALLY are that rude. When you are even nice and say please and thank you, they don't care...killing with kindness does nothing for these people.

I highly suggest skipping St. Thomas completely and going to the other islands with LESS natives on them.

The port for the cruise ships is even gross...it's not a pleasant sight...we just got back 2 days ago- trust me...I understand that it's a 3rd world country and that people are living in shacks, but they are in Mexico too..but at least in Mexico they value the customer and understand that tourism is feeding their children and they're at least courteous and helpful.
I
I'm 27 years old, I'm not a miserable old woman- I just know that as soon as you step foot out of the resort you're staying at..you're going to be disappointed.

The beach at the Morningstar was great..the Morningstar was great. Outside of the Morningstar. . . PIT. It should all be set on fire and have people re-inhabit that place.

Good luck if you're a woman...they LOVE shouting racial slurs and obnoxious comments at the girls.

virginia

i have to say i have serious issues with ALL the comments from katt919. clearly she had a bad vacation but note that she is a first time poster which gives you no frame of reference for impressions.

however, as previously stated i have been on st. t 3 times for 2 weeks each trip. i found the locals to be lovely, polite, friendly and pleasant. a simple greeting before you start asking for things will go a long way, as it does everywhere! islanders do not appreciate cranky americans.
i saw NO rats anywhere.
we enjoyed wonderful meals - served graciously but on island time - as on all carib vacations i have had the great fortune to enjoy.
please read other posters trip reports from st. thomas before making your choice.
i still say your original itin. is fine. travel between islands is fairly quick and an interesting part of the island life. and one does not need to take many clothes to start with so packing no biggie.
oh yes, i travel as a single woman, and heard no slurs or rude comments from anyone at all period, also i never felt unsafe. i did not walk around charlotte amalie at night though, and would only do so in a group as in any city.
i do not mean to paint too rosy of a picture. the island has some undesirable neighborhoods. and has crime, as do all islands particularly including st. john in the past couple years. darned if paradise hasn't actually been paved.

you know you can day trip to any of the bvi from st. john too - just to add to your indecision...lol

brenandg

Sorry to get OT here. Isn't there a song by Joni Mitchell that has the lyrics "They paved paradise and put up a parking lot"?( Marion, if you read this, you will know) I haven't stayed on STT, but that post about the "hazards" of STT sounds pretty strong. I have to agree with the others, STT hasn't really piqued my interest. If you have to fly home from STT, I would leave from a USVI or something easily accessable like Tortola. It might be a little iffy getting fom VG to STT for a flight the same day. You also mentioned Anegada. That island is impossible to get to and from STJ on the same day unless you do a costly charter flight. I posted earlier that the ferry schedule will dictate your schedule and it will. Keep us posted on your final itinerary,

agapotravel

Thanks virginia! You do make me feel a lot better about St. Thomas. I may take everyone's advice and maybe just spend 2 days there, rather than my original 3. But, I truly believe it deserves some exploring, too! I think common sense is important, no matter where you travel (or even in your own neighborhood). Okay, since you gave me another choice, I have a question. If it were up to you, would you island hop like I originally planned (STT, STJ, Tortola), or would you just stay on STT and STJ and do all the BVI hopping from STJ? One more thing....what order should I visit the islands? I am assuming STT first since we will be flying into there. See what you get for giving me more options. hee hee Thanks for your help!

Maggi

First, I think Katt's comments are outrageous and extremely offensive and would completely dismiss anything she/he had to say.

Agapo, remember that any day you travel in or out is pretty much a wasted day. It usually takes a day or two to get oriented and adjusted and by that time you will already be on your way to the next destination. Part of the charm of the island is "liming"/relaxing and just letting that feeling wash over you. You can't do that when you are constantly in a panic to do and see everything. You probably won't want to do this, but my advice is the same as jlbowers, i.e. spend most if not all of your time on one island and do day trips. We rented villas for a week on separate trips to both St. John and Virgin Gorda. I think between the two I liked St. John better. The beaches are gorgeous and many are easily accessible from the roadside. It was lush and gorgeous as were the views. Virgin Gorda has the Baths, which is a must do in my opinion and Mahoe Bay, which is where we rented our villa, is fabulous. Both these villas had A/C in both bedrooms and our own pool. Between the pool and cool bedroom we were perfectly comfortable. The cost, off season was a little over $2000 a week. A fairly nice hotel room could cost you that, plus you wouldn't be saving money on food by eating a couple meals a day in. If you consider this option and want more info feel free to email me directly:
[email protected] or post your questions here.

Love your "handle", by the way!
Maggi

beachplum

Not sure what to say about katt's report or comments other than not sure what she was smoking when she wrote it.
Of course there is poverty as on any island but travelers usually don't hang out in those areas but it is the most populated VI island so there is a cross section of people in all economic classes. There is a Shipwreck Landing on St. John but there is not one on St. Thomas so those rats must be imaginary too. Visited the USVI many times - never stayed at the Marriott - but have enjoyed many other properties islandwide from B&B's to resorts to condos and but never the ones in disrepair - yes, there are some that need a facelift or work just like any island. Most people aren't aware that those who are percieved as a "native" (no slur intended, right?) Virgin Islander (and it is American - not some third world country) more likely will be those who have settled from many other islands. Someone recommending Trunk, Cinnamon and Hawksnest as the only beaches doesn't get out much. If the smell of smoking herb disturbs you don't go to Coki Beach but not sure how one recognizes a crack house - and it's obvious katt isn't even familiar with the entrance to the Marriott or any other resorts when she says that's where they are.
Be sure to start each conversation with "good morning" or "good day" - it's the polite thing to do and remember you are on island time. Please don't go to Wendy's and then complain about the food and restaurants or stick to chicken wings. One place you might want to head is Cuzzins on Back Street for good local eats but the restaurants are not inexpensive. BTW, if you do head to Megan's Bay (not much snorkeling there) you can get a good breakfast early in morn and be sure to stop at Udder Delight for the best milkshakes.
Can't say that St. Thomas is my all-time absolute favorite but it, like all islands, has good and the not-so-good. I've never had a rude encounter but since you are traveled, you know that you often get back exactly what you put out. Some areas are more urban and busy - with travelers and locals alike You've picked a range of islands and resorts and that's a good thing and there's been some good advise offered here. Just go and enjoy the constrasts - after all, that's what traveling is all about.

katt919

Oh please, just because I'm a first time poster, what I saw, witnessed, heard from OTHERS leaving the island isn't valid?
I actually heard about 8 people say the same things I have said.

I took a timeshare tour with someone who LIVES on the island and he even said the island is a dump, and he "won't go into town for anything, and he prefers St. John"
I never once said I had an awful vacation, the beaches are nice. The hotel was great. The people suck and Charlotte Amalie is a dump as is Red Hook. Why are you people offended? Do you own property there? Do you have some sort of "bond" with the island, where you can't allow people to have solid concrete opinions?


I've travelled ALL over the world, from national geographic expeditions in the middle of nowhere to 5 star resorts, I would not go back to St. Thomas. There's nothing spectacular about it, except how rude the people are. They do not act like Mexi-CANS.

If you think my comments are "outrageous" then you must not be the "exploring" type of traveler who actually goes outside of your resort.
I can assure you, I saw Rats. It's common sense to assume that when you live in pits and crap-holes that there will be rats..it's an island...ship rats....they're just the size of cats.

Trust me- it's not worth the price to stay there for more than 2 days, and good luck if you're an attractive woman because you WILL get harassed by the men.

It is what it is....oh but because I'm a 1st time poster, nothing counts...lol.

I just decided to post because the Fodor's book is so dead wrong on the island that I had to say something.

katt919

A side note- I'm also a classicly trained chef, so I know when I'm being taken for a "ride" in terms of food. Going to the Ritz for a $18 appetizer of chicken yakitori is not worth it.

If you don't want to believe me, fine. I've been everywhere..but beachplum.. I stayed at the Marriott..don't accuse me of knowing where I did and did not stay. Would you like to see pictures?
Get over yourself. It's not YOUR island. St. John is a much better island.

All I said is if you're going to spend the day at St. John, spend some time at Hawksnest, Cinnamon and Trunk. They're all pretty beaches, as are the rest of them on that island.

I went to Coki beach, I got harassed by men down there.

If I wanted to be harassed by people "like that" I'd go to the 'hood in my city.

You people all get so testy, as if you OWN land there.

Get over it.

In any event agapotravel, I hope you have a nice trip.

RonUSVI

I own land here, I own businesses here, as well as being a fourth generation Virgin Islander, I take exception to your rantings katt919. What ever bothered you here is certainly deeper than what you are reporting. So I would not call your report accurate at all. We have world class restaurants here. To eat at Wendy's and being a "classicly(sic) trained chef" is hilarious! Sorry you did not like it here, but there is no reason to report such bunk, as you know it's not true. I am also sorry you did not enjoy your time here. I know, it's your opinion and you do have your right to it. Sorry again, we can't please all the people. Thank God for the hundreds of thousands that we do and have them keep coming back for more!

RL

katt919

You guys take message boards entirely too seriously. It's not the end of the world- at least not in mine.

Just because I EAT at Wendy's (in the States too I might add) means I'm not fully capable of doing my job and having an opinion on something that I've gone to school for and have extensive experience in? Please, you sound like a fool and an idiot.

You pay for all of the same food that you can get in the states..chicken, beef, etc. it's pricey, and not that great. I'll take a #6 that's been completely deep fried until it's VERY over done over "Udder delights" anyday- from the looks of the restaurants and the sanitation practices of that island, the only thing delightful is going to be a toilet from a food-borne illness. But you live there last poster, you've probably developed more antibodies than a tourist.


I recommend to the OP to read trip advisor over Fodor's. Apparently, none of you can take any negative news of your beloved island.

You will find OP that many people, not just myself, have described STT's "Island Hopsitality" as laziness, that the crime rate in town is very high, and it's recommended for tourists to not go out at night..

I assure you, I am a very pleasant person, I SAY please, thank you, no thank you...I wasn't brought up by wolves. But when 80% of the people I came in contact with there in the HOSPITALITY industry have attitude problems, and are miserable, that's a red flag. When they roll their eyes if you ask them a question, and give that typical "attitude" which you can commonly see on a Maury Povich show, I take offense.
At some point, they don't deserve a please, thank you, or even a tip. Let them live in filth. They deserve it.


I did find a few nice people, one especially at the Morningstar. We ate at the hotel every day for lunch, just so we could give our money to someone who deserved it.

So if you're all so bent out of shape about my feelings about the island, fabulous. I stand by them, and rest assured, I am not the only one who would take St. John or a cozy spot in Mexico where the people are interested in serving you because they understand that nice attitudes equal cash from tourists.

I'm glad I would never go back to STT. Why would I want to go anywhere where I was afraid I was going to get attacked and raped. (Which I might add, a gentleman and his wife at my hotel was carjacked at gunpoint at 3pm at the Ferry to St. John)

Ghetto island awaits.