2 months in Europe with almost 5 and 2.5 year old
Aug 31st, 2012, 05:26 AM
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2 months in Europe with almost 5 and 2.5 year old
Hello, we are travelling from Australia with our two boys (almost 5 and 2.5) in Sept / Oct 2013. I have been trawling the net for advice and information on destinations, tips, travel methods, car seats, strollers etc and would love to hear any advice or suggestions you may have to offer.
My first issue is trying to narrow the trip down to an itinerary! Feeling a huge amount of pressure to choose the "right" itinerary given we are travelling from so far away and may not have this opportunity again for many years. Some vague ideas have been to spend a week in London, then fly into Europe - possibly greece, or Paris (the latter possibly by train), and work our way around slowly to somewhere else to come home from. I have done a fair bit of travel by myself in Western Europe, but my husband hasn't. Although I don't really want to revisit places already travelled, I realise I will be looking at them through different eyes having children now. I'm finding it hard to think of new places to go since I don't know much about them! But I really do want to see different places. Ideas are including greek islands, Rome and possibly some other spots in italy although i have been to a fair amount already, germany (have only seen Munich and Berlin), southern france - have spent some time here but it is so beautiful I dont think I would mind taking the family back, croatia, Netherlands, Belgium (these last three Ive not been to)... Obviously I dont imagine we will see all of this, but I'm just throwing around ideas and am hoping to narrow it down.
Realistically with kids we are planning to take it more slowly, and stay in less places for longer amounts of time. Maybe hire apartments or houses for 4 days or longer. I imagine we will need to take a car, but Im not sure how this would work in cities - maybe we have to ditch the car at those points. I'm also not sure if train travel is practical at all but perhaps a trip somewhere would be fun for the boys.
I also wonder if we should bring our own car seats?? Safety is so important but they are also huge, and its a long way to drag them.
Any suggestions to help me try and find a starting point would be so appreciated! Generally, we enjoy being outdoors, exploring and seeing wonderful scenery, interacting with people, eating great food. We're not looking to spend hours in museums (although I would happily do this on my own!), nor are we interested in lazing on a beach for a week.
My first issue is trying to narrow the trip down to an itinerary! Feeling a huge amount of pressure to choose the "right" itinerary given we are travelling from so far away and may not have this opportunity again for many years. Some vague ideas have been to spend a week in London, then fly into Europe - possibly greece, or Paris (the latter possibly by train), and work our way around slowly to somewhere else to come home from. I have done a fair bit of travel by myself in Western Europe, but my husband hasn't. Although I don't really want to revisit places already travelled, I realise I will be looking at them through different eyes having children now. I'm finding it hard to think of new places to go since I don't know much about them! But I really do want to see different places. Ideas are including greek islands, Rome and possibly some other spots in italy although i have been to a fair amount already, germany (have only seen Munich and Berlin), southern france - have spent some time here but it is so beautiful I dont think I would mind taking the family back, croatia, Netherlands, Belgium (these last three Ive not been to)... Obviously I dont imagine we will see all of this, but I'm just throwing around ideas and am hoping to narrow it down.
Realistically with kids we are planning to take it more slowly, and stay in less places for longer amounts of time. Maybe hire apartments or houses for 4 days or longer. I imagine we will need to take a car, but Im not sure how this would work in cities - maybe we have to ditch the car at those points. I'm also not sure if train travel is practical at all but perhaps a trip somewhere would be fun for the boys.
I also wonder if we should bring our own car seats?? Safety is so important but they are also huge, and its a long way to drag them.
Any suggestions to help me try and find a starting point would be so appreciated! Generally, we enjoy being outdoors, exploring and seeing wonderful scenery, interacting with people, eating great food. We're not looking to spend hours in museums (although I would happily do this on my own!), nor are we interested in lazing on a beach for a week.
Aug 31st, 2012, 09:03 AM
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Your starting point should be to realize that since you are coming from such a very long distance, you should plan to spend 2 weeks in your first destination in an apartment. You really have no idea how your small children will react to the plane flight and the jet lag. Give them a lot of time to adjust. I would pick a country where you speak the language as your first destination. London is a great place for kids.
From there, consider taking the train to Paris for another week at least, and then leasing a rental car for the remainder of your stay. You will be carrying too much stuff to avail yourself of cheap air fares, or to want to deal with the hassle of train stations and trains.
To be honest, I doubt your children will think this trip is fun unless you spend time with them every day doing what they enjoy -- tiny things like color in books or play on swings, the same things they do at home. The older one might enjoy bus rides in the cities, or boat rides. They will want to see other children and pets. They will not want to see Greece or Germany. They will not appreciate they are traveling. It will mean nothing to them. They will want to eat favorite foods and take naps. You need a comfortable place with a kitchen wherever you stay, and you should plan to stay more than 4 days at a time, I think.
The weather in Northern Europe from Sept 23 forward will be heading toward rain except for the areas nearer the Mediterranean. Consider whether you might enjoy southern France, southern Spain or central Italy. Stay away from steep places with cobblestones and staircases.
Consider buying what you need in Europe, like car seats.
From there, consider taking the train to Paris for another week at least, and then leasing a rental car for the remainder of your stay. You will be carrying too much stuff to avail yourself of cheap air fares, or to want to deal with the hassle of train stations and trains.
To be honest, I doubt your children will think this trip is fun unless you spend time with them every day doing what they enjoy -- tiny things like color in books or play on swings, the same things they do at home. The older one might enjoy bus rides in the cities, or boat rides. They will want to see other children and pets. They will not want to see Greece or Germany. They will not appreciate they are traveling. It will mean nothing to them. They will want to eat favorite foods and take naps. You need a comfortable place with a kitchen wherever you stay, and you should plan to stay more than 4 days at a time, I think.
The weather in Northern Europe from Sept 23 forward will be heading toward rain except for the areas nearer the Mediterranean. Consider whether you might enjoy southern France, southern Spain or central Italy. Stay away from steep places with cobblestones and staircases.
Consider buying what you need in Europe, like car seats.
Aug 31st, 2012, 09:18 AM
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This sounds overwhelming to me, I could never imagine even wanting to do such a thing, but it seems to me, the first thing is to figure out the main goal of this trip. It sounds to me like the main goal is to travel around a lot and see a lot of different places in Europe. Because even when you mention you might stay in places longer, you talk about four days in a place as if that were a long time.
The reason I mentioned that was because a different goal would be to have a vacation in Europe, not to travel all over seeing a lot of different places. For example, instead of thinking about all the different countries and places, you could simply find a base to stay in for a month or so and do day trips in that area (or even for the weekend, if you found a rental property that was reasonable enough that you didn't mind paying in two places). That's what I would do, I would pick out a couple areas I wanted to really visit and do that. For two months, you could actually do 3 areas pretty wekk, that would give you about 2.5 to 3 weeks in 3 different base locations. SO you could find some house or apt to rent in some area you liked and explore that area.
Given you talk about the outdoors mainly, it won't work very well to have a rental car, I just don't know how that would work for visiting cities, as you said. And it would cost you a fortune if you wanted to leave it in some other place than where you rented.
I notice you don't mention Switzerland which is a beautiful country where people are always doing outdoors things (plenty of hikers on the trains) and a very pleasant country to travel in, with a great rail system. I also really like the Czech Republic. I like Poland, too, but the CR is a little more tourist-friendly and more built up for that. YOu don't mention Spain at all, either.
I've been to Greek isles and they certainly have their good points, especially if you like good scenery. But you would then have to fly somewhere else. If you picked 3 places, you could do England, then Greece, then some last place in whatever country you choose, such as the Netherlands/Belgium or whatever.
If you really want to keep to the plan of moving all over Europe on a big grand tour, I can't give any particular advice as I've never done that and wouldn't want to.
The reason I mentioned that was because a different goal would be to have a vacation in Europe, not to travel all over seeing a lot of different places. For example, instead of thinking about all the different countries and places, you could simply find a base to stay in for a month or so and do day trips in that area (or even for the weekend, if you found a rental property that was reasonable enough that you didn't mind paying in two places). That's what I would do, I would pick out a couple areas I wanted to really visit and do that. For two months, you could actually do 3 areas pretty wekk, that would give you about 2.5 to 3 weeks in 3 different base locations. SO you could find some house or apt to rent in some area you liked and explore that area.
Given you talk about the outdoors mainly, it won't work very well to have a rental car, I just don't know how that would work for visiting cities, as you said. And it would cost you a fortune if you wanted to leave it in some other place than where you rented.
I notice you don't mention Switzerland which is a beautiful country where people are always doing outdoors things (plenty of hikers on the trains) and a very pleasant country to travel in, with a great rail system. I also really like the Czech Republic. I like Poland, too, but the CR is a little more tourist-friendly and more built up for that. YOu don't mention Spain at all, either.
I've been to Greek isles and they certainly have their good points, especially if you like good scenery. But you would then have to fly somewhere else. If you picked 3 places, you could do England, then Greece, then some last place in whatever country you choose, such as the Netherlands/Belgium or whatever.
If you really want to keep to the plan of moving all over Europe on a big grand tour, I can't give any particular advice as I've never done that and wouldn't want to.
Aug 31st, 2012, 12:29 PM
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Just to explain, we have one child. We have traveled with him to Europe from the US twice now, once when he was 3.5, to Sweden and Denmark. Second time was a couple of weeks ago. He is 5.5 years old. We went to Paris and Amsterdam.
You don't get to see nearly as much with kids as without them but you get unique unexpected opportunities to connect with other parents and all sort of cuteness that only you will appreciate and remember.
You don't get to see nearly as much with kids as without them but you get unique unexpected opportunities to connect with other parents and all sort of cuteness that only you will appreciate and remember.
Aug 31st, 2012, 03:16 PM
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I have done some travelling from Australia to Europe with our now 3 yr old (2 long trips, partly for work reasons) ... you might consider picking bases (a place to unpack the toys and leave them) of a week or two and doing short trips out from there. An example in Germany might be to pick the Rhein-Main region (the region around Frankfurt) and just spend your time visiting all the little townships and cities up and down the Rhine, and cities up to 100km away. You could do this easily by train. We usually have a car, but this region is very accessible by rail. I am not a fan of bringing the car seat. We always thought it looked too heavy, and friends of ours who travel regularly once tried it with their son, who refused point blank to sit in it in the plane even though he had been in it in hundreds of car trips. So that one's up to you.
Another bonus of picking a base is that you get to see how people live in that area - you are shopping and cooking for yourselves, and if you have a day where you need to do laundry or just sit and contemplate, it's much easier and you don't feel you've lost a day.
A few trip reports that might give you inspiration: this family had a trip to Iceland and the North Sea area in Germany:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...rmany-saga.cfm
This person accompanied her husband to Germany and fully explored the area around Frankfurt:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...kfurt-area.cfm
and if you click on my screen name you can see our trip reports on travelling with a toddler and also staying at a base (Bremen). Hopefully you get some ideas about other regions / countries too, I just know Germany quite well.
Lavandula
Another bonus of picking a base is that you get to see how people live in that area - you are shopping and cooking for yourselves, and if you have a day where you need to do laundry or just sit and contemplate, it's much easier and you don't feel you've lost a day.
A few trip reports that might give you inspiration: this family had a trip to Iceland and the North Sea area in Germany:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...rmany-saga.cfm
This person accompanied her husband to Germany and fully explored the area around Frankfurt:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...kfurt-area.cfm
and if you click on my screen name you can see our trip reports on travelling with a toddler and also staying at a base (Bremen). Hopefully you get some ideas about other regions / countries too, I just know Germany quite well.
Lavandula
Aug 31st, 2012, 04:10 PM
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Also another thought: we bought a $20 umbrella stroller from Toys R Us in Sydney. Very light, can be lifted by one hand, and if it were to have broken, we wouldn't have cared. We had 2 suitcases and a cabin bag (which was filled with small toys and snacks), and a soft backpack in one suitcase which we used as a daypack / nappy bag (this may not be relevant for you any more) when we reached our destination, and which can be filled with things and taken as a cabin bag for the return journey. Also a netbook and a handbag. The combo of backpack and pram is a good one. One person drags the 2 suitcases with the cabin bag strung over the top and the netbook over the shoulder, the other takes the backpack, pram and handbag (i.e., me). This is doable for trains. If you thought you needed more luggage (quite possible), a car is really a better option.
Lavandula
Lavandula
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Aug 31st, 2012, 05:11 PM
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We've traveled with our son since he was an infant. It hasn't been as dire as the first couple of posts would make it seem.
It has never taken two weeks for our son to sort out his jet lag. In fact, he recovers better than we do. This was especially true when he was younger and still taking naps.
I would suggest longer stays in apartments with quick day trips out to the country (or into the city).
I think you're biggest obstacle will be your timing -- in Sept/Oct the days will be getting shorter and the weather might be tricky. Start North and work your way South to follow the sun (or whatever is left of it).
We loved traveling in England with our little one -- lots of castles and country side to run in, plus there are always puddles to jump in, bring your wellies!
We enjoyed Paris with him (at 11 mos and again at 4 and 5). He's a picky eater but was always content to gnaw on a baguette!
We went to Italy when he was 2 1/2 and they LOVED him. Just walking down the street with him was exciting!
Jumping in puddles, sitting on a bench eating (another) baguette, interacting with child loving Italians -- all things that I wouldn't do if I wasn't traveling with my son!
If you get a car check the EU seat standards, they may be different then Australia. For the flight, consider these:
http://kidsflysafe.com/
It's a 5 point harness using the seat and belt of an airplane. It fits them just like their car seat without the added bulk. My son has never run (or walked) up and down the aisles of plane. He sat in his seat like he would the car. He slept in it easily. I've recommended it here before and other posters have used it and love it too.
Traveling with children isn't for the faint of heart -- but we love it! I couldn't imagine traveling without him, or not traveling because of him! Plan ahead, be prepared, then relax and enjoy where the day takes you!
It has never taken two weeks for our son to sort out his jet lag. In fact, he recovers better than we do. This was especially true when he was younger and still taking naps.
I would suggest longer stays in apartments with quick day trips out to the country (or into the city).
I think you're biggest obstacle will be your timing -- in Sept/Oct the days will be getting shorter and the weather might be tricky. Start North and work your way South to follow the sun (or whatever is left of it).
We loved traveling in England with our little one -- lots of castles and country side to run in, plus there are always puddles to jump in, bring your wellies!
We enjoyed Paris with him (at 11 mos and again at 4 and 5). He's a picky eater but was always content to gnaw on a baguette!
We went to Italy when he was 2 1/2 and they LOVED him. Just walking down the street with him was exciting!
Jumping in puddles, sitting on a bench eating (another) baguette, interacting with child loving Italians -- all things that I wouldn't do if I wasn't traveling with my son!
If you get a car check the EU seat standards, they may be different then Australia. For the flight, consider these:
http://kidsflysafe.com/
It's a 5 point harness using the seat and belt of an airplane. It fits them just like their car seat without the added bulk. My son has never run (or walked) up and down the aisles of plane. He sat in his seat like he would the car. He slept in it easily. I've recommended it here before and other posters have used it and love it too.
Traveling with children isn't for the faint of heart -- but we love it! I couldn't imagine traveling without him, or not traveling because of him! Plan ahead, be prepared, then relax and enjoy where the day takes you!
Aug 31st, 2012, 10:36 PM
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We travelled to Germany, France, and Belgium for nearly 7 weeks with our 4 & 6 year olds in summer 2011. Check out our blog and please contact me with any questions. Our kids especially loved our week stay at a farmhouse outside of Bruges, Belgium.
www.familyineurope.travellerspoint.com
www.familyineurope.travellerspoint.com
Sep 1st, 2012, 04:34 AM
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Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies and comments. I really appreciate your time and input! Thankyou also for the links that some shared. I will look into those.
I'm definitely under no illusions that travelling with children is easy. Travelling as an adult is hard enough! I did parts of Europe with a girlfriend in my late 20's at such a pace (much too fast) we could hardly keep our eyes open! Having been to New Zealand with our 2 year old, we learnt that staying in locations for at least a few nights was essential to allow down time and opportunities to relax. I'm just trying to work out how to apply this to a European context and what places would be best to visit. As someone suggested, I agree that choosing a few main bases and exploring the surrounding area is the way to go. Now I just have to decide where these places are (for me this is the hardest part), and what there is to see in between.
What I love about travelling with children, exhausting as it can be, even in visiting our own city of Sydney, is the connections you (or the kids) make with other people, and the things that you get to experience purely because you are put in the situation through having children. And I'm definitely happy to spend time at playgrounds and letting the kids run free, especially if there is scenery in the background!
I would love to hear any further advice, particularly any suggestions re locations that may be great as bases.
Thanks again for your thoughts!
I'm definitely under no illusions that travelling with children is easy. Travelling as an adult is hard enough! I did parts of Europe with a girlfriend in my late 20's at such a pace (much too fast) we could hardly keep our eyes open! Having been to New Zealand with our 2 year old, we learnt that staying in locations for at least a few nights was essential to allow down time and opportunities to relax. I'm just trying to work out how to apply this to a European context and what places would be best to visit. As someone suggested, I agree that choosing a few main bases and exploring the surrounding area is the way to go. Now I just have to decide where these places are (for me this is the hardest part), and what there is to see in between.
What I love about travelling with children, exhausting as it can be, even in visiting our own city of Sydney, is the connections you (or the kids) make with other people, and the things that you get to experience purely because you are put in the situation through having children. And I'm definitely happy to spend time at playgrounds and letting the kids run free, especially if there is scenery in the background!
I would love to hear any further advice, particularly any suggestions re locations that may be great as bases.
Thanks again for your thoughts!
Sep 1st, 2012, 08:38 AM
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Paris is definitely a great destination. We had a great time visiting parks, Jardin du Luxembourg, Jardin de toulerries, Jardin des Plantes, etc. We bought Fodors Paris with Kids and City Walks with Kids: http://www.amazon.com/City-Walks-Kid.../dp/0811861708.
We haven't visited the rest of France, but there are probably places that are within reach and people here will provide you with further information.
I would also say Amsterdam is pretty easy with kids, lots of manageable museums, great public transportation, Artis Zoo.
We haven't visited the rest of France, but there are probably places that are within reach and people here will provide you with further information.
I would also say Amsterdam is pretty easy with kids, lots of manageable museums, great public transportation, Artis Zoo.
Sep 2nd, 2012, 02:56 AM
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I didn't intend my advice to sound as if I thought traveling with children was a "dire" situation. But in offering my advice, I did take into account that the travelers are going to Europe from Australia and that the initial post did talk about wanting to see things not seen before. Hence my advice to remain in one place upon arrival until jet lag is gone and then stay there long enough to see some new things.
I think if you pick London or Paris as an arrival point from Australia, and stay in an apartment, you will need the better part of a week to shop and get settled into a workable rhythm. Yesterday I arrived to an apartment in Lisbon that is very nice, but I still had to buy myself a little coffee pot (didn't want the Nespresso machine), plus shampoos, milk, cereals, a plug adaptor, etc etc, and I am not planning to feed 2 kids here. Sure, at the end of the week you'll be well over your jet lag and can pick up and go someplace else, but you might find it more enjoyable to spend the following week in the same place where you arrived, doing a few easy daytrips on alternate days, meeting other families and just generally enjoying the details of your surroundings rather than getting organized to pack up and move on.
I also agree that in nice weather, Amsterdam can be good with kids, because there are lots of short train trips you can enjoy and lots of parks. There is also a big interactive museum and kid's indoor venues in case the weather isn't nice. You just have to watch out for the trams and bicyclists on the streets. If it turns out that you don't want to lease a car, a trip that embraces London, Amsterdam and Paris as your bases might work out nicely.
Finally, I would caution you against letting other people's experiences about how their children travel count for too much in planning your own trip. Even with adults, responses to jet lag are totally individual. Some people like naps. Some people need to stay on the go or else they can't wake up again. The same is true for travel "styles." Some people can do road trips. Some people can't.
Have you got time and money before you leave to take a few experimental trips in Austraila? You won't learn about jet lag, but you can see how your kids individually react to airports, or train trips, or new foods or just generally being out their own water for a few days in a row.
I think if you pick London or Paris as an arrival point from Australia, and stay in an apartment, you will need the better part of a week to shop and get settled into a workable rhythm. Yesterday I arrived to an apartment in Lisbon that is very nice, but I still had to buy myself a little coffee pot (didn't want the Nespresso machine), plus shampoos, milk, cereals, a plug adaptor, etc etc, and I am not planning to feed 2 kids here. Sure, at the end of the week you'll be well over your jet lag and can pick up and go someplace else, but you might find it more enjoyable to spend the following week in the same place where you arrived, doing a few easy daytrips on alternate days, meeting other families and just generally enjoying the details of your surroundings rather than getting organized to pack up and move on.
I also agree that in nice weather, Amsterdam can be good with kids, because there are lots of short train trips you can enjoy and lots of parks. There is also a big interactive museum and kid's indoor venues in case the weather isn't nice. You just have to watch out for the trams and bicyclists on the streets. If it turns out that you don't want to lease a car, a trip that embraces London, Amsterdam and Paris as your bases might work out nicely.
Finally, I would caution you against letting other people's experiences about how their children travel count for too much in planning your own trip. Even with adults, responses to jet lag are totally individual. Some people like naps. Some people need to stay on the go or else they can't wake up again. The same is true for travel "styles." Some people can do road trips. Some people can't.
Have you got time and money before you leave to take a few experimental trips in Austraila? You won't learn about jet lag, but you can see how your kids individually react to airports, or train trips, or new foods or just generally being out their own water for a few days in a row.
Sep 2nd, 2012, 03:33 PM
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aguamineral - I am still shaking my head at your original response.
-----"They will not want to see Greece or Germany."-----
Really, do you think the 2 year old will prefer Tuscany?
You recommend 2 weeks to overcome jet lag?
And then this one;
-----"Finally, I would caution you against letting other people's experiences about how their children travel count for too much in planning your own trip."----
That happens to be the best information she can get. Stories and advice from people who have done this is exactly what she is looking for. Tales of impending gloom and advice that ranges from reminding her to spend time with her children every day (??????) and make sure they have time to play and get to eat their favourite foods are surely not productive.
You did give one terrific piece of advice - leasing a car in France will probably turn out to be the cheapest way for them to travel.
This may no be the best link for information but research Renault and European leasing. Greta rates and 40 different drop off points when you are done your trip. All sizes of vehicles are available.
http://tinyurl.com/93t2w59
-----"They will not want to see Greece or Germany."-----
Really, do you think the 2 year old will prefer Tuscany?
You recommend 2 weeks to overcome jet lag?
And then this one;
-----"Finally, I would caution you against letting other people's experiences about how their children travel count for too much in planning your own trip."----
That happens to be the best information she can get. Stories and advice from people who have done this is exactly what she is looking for. Tales of impending gloom and advice that ranges from reminding her to spend time with her children every day (??????) and make sure they have time to play and get to eat their favourite foods are surely not productive.
You did give one terrific piece of advice - leasing a car in France will probably turn out to be the cheapest way for them to travel.
This may no be the best link for information but research Renault and European leasing. Greta rates and 40 different drop off points when you are done your trip. All sizes of vehicles are available.
http://tinyurl.com/93t2w59
Sep 2nd, 2012, 06:06 PM
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We went to Italy when our kids were almost 2 and 4, you can read the trip report here: http://www.markandmonica.com/Travel/italy.htm and Ireland when they were five and three (trip report here: http://www.markandmonica.com/Travel/Ireland.htm) Hopefully you will find some helpful tips there. My biggest piece of advice is don't worry, you'll be fine. You have to take care of your kids wherever you are, better to do it someplace cool like Europe in my opinion!
Sep 2nd, 2012, 10:48 PM
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Take the children - the experiences will be completely different from what it was before - but isn't that the whole point of travelling? Mark and Monica are absolutely right - why should parents have to spend the next 18 years at Disneyland. Personally, I would go the apartment route, plan on eating out at lunchtime not dinner, and try some of the smaller towns as a base,(eg Lucca) and hire a car. Again, this is only my opinion but I would rate London, Paris (if you are convinced about cities) and Italy ahead of Greece.
Sep 3rd, 2012, 04:01 AM
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Thanks again everyone for some great advice! I will certainly check out the links above. It's great to read about the trips people have done with similar aged children. Our kids are pretty resilient and flexible so I feel quite confident they (and we!) will be just fine overall. Although my kids have not done a great deal of plane travel, they are kind of used to a bit of upheaval with my husband away alot, and we do get them out and about enjoying trains and days out here and there.
BKP thankyou for your hint re the weather and starting north first. I love your comment - "I couldn't imagine traveling without him, or not traveling because of him!", and I can imagine my very blonde son also receiving alot of attention in Italy. I look forward to all of this!
Aramis thankyou re your car link, I now recall that my mum and I did the European lease option in 1998. I had a look at this site, and also some regular hire places. Just trying to compare the two I see that the lease option appears to include all taxes, road assistance, fees, insurance etc, but that the regular car hire provides a base rate and then around 3 other optional insurances - Theft waiver, collision damage waiver and something called a Serenity pack (!) which covers flat tyres, windscreen, glass etc. These add about $2000 to the base rate. Does anyone know if these are required? I imagine perhaps all or a couple are unnecessary money grabs??
Marluk we aren't set on cities, although I think a week in London would be fun and I've always wanted to see Rome! I am happy to either give most cities a miss, or just visit on day trips, it's just that I don't know where else to go at this early stage! I am naturally drawn to these places on the map because they are familiar and I know their names, but I am definitely open for ideas
I had a look at a wonderful farm stay outside of Brugge suggested by AndiM above, and I have also stumbled across an organic farm stay 2 hours from Rome. I imagine spending time in places like these to hang out for a week or so in between a few patches of shorter stays where we would move around a little more to get to the next location. Still, I don't imagine even when we are "moving" that we would stay for less than 3 nights anywhere.
I would love to hear any further suggestions to help us narrow down ideas. Perhaps in Germany (not Berlin or Munich although perhaps there are great places nearby these cities, so around Frankfurt which we may fly home from (my husband would love to drive the Nurburgring) or other areas that would be great to see. Lavandula I will check out your friend's link re the area around Frankfurt.
Netherlands? I note the comments re Amsterdam which sounds interesting, and although I know little about the rest of the country at this stage, if it's worth a visit hey let's go and maybe we could visit that great farm stay outside Brugge if we did. Being a florist I wouldn't mind seeing something related to this.
I do love France, but I have spent a fair amount of time there, and the more I think about it, maybe we need to consciously go some where new. My husband is also less keen on France although he's never been so he admits he has no particular reason! He would love the food!
Switzerland? (have seen a little but this was 15 years ago and my husband would love the scenery).
Czech Republic? (never been there).... Not sure how Rome would fit into all that since it's a fair way down Italy although I will be checking out Monica's Italian trip blog above. And I still have that longing to see the Greek Islands, but maybe that will just have to be for another time...
I am fully aware that my head is all over the place, but the more we look into different ideas and get a good feel for what opportunities may be out there we can then work to narrow it down to something realistic. We are at such an early stage that if I were to hear about a particular area that would be wonderful for our kind of trip, we would be happy to work a trip around it.
Thanks again.
BKP thankyou for your hint re the weather and starting north first. I love your comment - "I couldn't imagine traveling without him, or not traveling because of him!", and I can imagine my very blonde son also receiving alot of attention in Italy. I look forward to all of this!
Aramis thankyou re your car link, I now recall that my mum and I did the European lease option in 1998. I had a look at this site, and also some regular hire places. Just trying to compare the two I see that the lease option appears to include all taxes, road assistance, fees, insurance etc, but that the regular car hire provides a base rate and then around 3 other optional insurances - Theft waiver, collision damage waiver and something called a Serenity pack (!) which covers flat tyres, windscreen, glass etc. These add about $2000 to the base rate. Does anyone know if these are required? I imagine perhaps all or a couple are unnecessary money grabs??
Marluk we aren't set on cities, although I think a week in London would be fun and I've always wanted to see Rome! I am happy to either give most cities a miss, or just visit on day trips, it's just that I don't know where else to go at this early stage! I am naturally drawn to these places on the map because they are familiar and I know their names, but I am definitely open for ideas
I had a look at a wonderful farm stay outside of Brugge suggested by AndiM above, and I have also stumbled across an organic farm stay 2 hours from Rome. I imagine spending time in places like these to hang out for a week or so in between a few patches of shorter stays where we would move around a little more to get to the next location. Still, I don't imagine even when we are "moving" that we would stay for less than 3 nights anywhere.I would love to hear any further suggestions to help us narrow down ideas. Perhaps in Germany (not Berlin or Munich although perhaps there are great places nearby these cities, so around Frankfurt which we may fly home from (my husband would love to drive the Nurburgring) or other areas that would be great to see. Lavandula I will check out your friend's link re the area around Frankfurt.
Netherlands? I note the comments re Amsterdam which sounds interesting, and although I know little about the rest of the country at this stage, if it's worth a visit hey let's go and maybe we could visit that great farm stay outside Brugge if we did. Being a florist I wouldn't mind seeing something related to this.
I do love France, but I have spent a fair amount of time there, and the more I think about it, maybe we need to consciously go some where new. My husband is also less keen on France although he's never been so he admits he has no particular reason! He would love the food!
Switzerland? (have seen a little but this was 15 years ago and my husband would love the scenery).
Czech Republic? (never been there).... Not sure how Rome would fit into all that since it's a fair way down Italy although I will be checking out Monica's Italian trip blog above. And I still have that longing to see the Greek Islands, but maybe that will just have to be for another time...
I am fully aware that my head is all over the place, but the more we look into different ideas and get a good feel for what opportunities may be out there we can then work to narrow it down to something realistic. We are at such an early stage that if I were to hear about a particular area that would be wonderful for our kind of trip, we would be happy to work a trip around it.
Thanks again.
Sep 3rd, 2012, 06:17 PM
#17
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We took an 18 month old to the Czech Republic and Poland. We found both countries to be excellent places to travel with a young child. My trip report (http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-a-toddler.cfm) gives extensive details about our experience. We also took the same child (then 2.5 years old) to Spain and Andorra earlier this year - also easy and child friendly. We're headed to Germany next year with her and our newest addition. They will be 3.5 and just under 1 year old.
What has made all this travel very easy is that we plan extensively around the kid(s). We stay in apartments and in hotel suites in centrally located areas. We stick to simpler itineraries (several cities vs. 3-4 countries). We make the trip as much about the kid as it is about us. Every day we make sure to have at least one to two activities that is purely for the child, whether it is a local class (it's surprisingly easy to find classes for toddlers that you can "drop in" for a day. We've done it in two countries.), the zoo, a playground, etc. Before we leave the for the trip, we have pages and pages of notes on child friendly activities (both outdoor and indoor in case of rain), child friendly restaurants, children's stores, pharmacies, hospitals and playgrounds. This way, no matter how we structure our day, we always know where we can eat or where we can take her to have a little fun if she's getting restless.
It's definitely not the way we used to travel but we saw 36 countries before kids so we feel like we can afford to just make it all about them now. We've had a blast and will continue to take them overseas each year.
If you do wind up going to Prague, Krakow, Warsaw or Barcelona, I'd be happy to share my notes with you so that you can avoid having do the hours (and hours, and hours, and hours) of research that I did. I'm starting to compile notes on Berlin but won't have that ready until the spring as our trip is still many months away.
What has made all this travel very easy is that we plan extensively around the kid(s). We stay in apartments and in hotel suites in centrally located areas. We stick to simpler itineraries (several cities vs. 3-4 countries). We make the trip as much about the kid as it is about us. Every day we make sure to have at least one to two activities that is purely for the child, whether it is a local class (it's surprisingly easy to find classes for toddlers that you can "drop in" for a day. We've done it in two countries.), the zoo, a playground, etc. Before we leave the for the trip, we have pages and pages of notes on child friendly activities (both outdoor and indoor in case of rain), child friendly restaurants, children's stores, pharmacies, hospitals and playgrounds. This way, no matter how we structure our day, we always know where we can eat or where we can take her to have a little fun if she's getting restless.
It's definitely not the way we used to travel but we saw 36 countries before kids so we feel like we can afford to just make it all about them now. We've had a blast and will continue to take them overseas each year.
If you do wind up going to Prague, Krakow, Warsaw or Barcelona, I'd be happy to share my notes with you so that you can avoid having do the hours (and hours, and hours, and hours) of research that I did. I'm starting to compile notes on Berlin but won't have that ready until the spring as our trip is still many months away.
Sep 3rd, 2012, 06:40 PM
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Thank you Akrobat. I will check out your blog and I will contact you about your notes if we end up going to these places. I also plan to arm myself with pages of child-friendly notes - Anything to make it easier and more enjoyable! I almost feel like 12 months isn't enough to plan it all but I'm sure once our itinerary is decided it will be much easier.
Sep 3rd, 2012, 10:16 PM
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Think about Venice for a few days. No traffic, and fun for kids.
I have happy memories of my then five year old being taught to count in Italian, when we ate in a truck stop cafe near Brindisi about 30 years ago.
Uno due tre quattro cinque
Brava!
If you click on my screen name, you'll find a couple of trip reports that I scrawled out.
An umbrella pusher makes sense. Trains are good, as long as you can minimise the luggage. And it's not a bad thing for kids to have less stuff around them. Travelling with kids is also a good way to meet other people. Enjoy.
I have happy memories of my then five year old being taught to count in Italian, when we ate in a truck stop cafe near Brindisi about 30 years ago.
Uno due tre quattro cinque
Brava!
If you click on my screen name, you'll find a couple of trip reports that I scrawled out.
An umbrella pusher makes sense. Trains are good, as long as you can minimise the luggage. And it's not a bad thing for kids to have less stuff around them. Travelling with kids is also a good way to meet other people. Enjoy.
