Fra_Diavolo

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/09/w...smid=url-share

Gifted for all to read.

sassy27

I don’t know how I feel about this. It simply is a shame while I understand, it’s to help with maintenance. However, how much of the money is used for it?

It’s like where I live, there is a bridge to cross. It was always free until a few years ago. Now there is a toll to cross. You know the toll is just going to go up as the years go by. It used to be free and will never be free again and yet where does the money go? Yes they supposedly tell us but it was free before all of this and was still maintained.

zebec

Far aFr Ffra FFS Fra,
I could not agree more. Increasingly, we refuse to line up for anything, be it an attraction like the Pantheon, or even a restaurant. Sign up online? Maybe we'd do that for an extra-special concert at Ste Chappelle but I cannot think of anything else.
Part of our ageing and also evolving and pivoting in what we seek as travelers.
Thank you for gifting this. Will always read something if its from the NYT.

I am done. the lines, the scalpers, the full bladder and the sunburn

hetismij2

Add to that this:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...thens-controls

It isn't worth it. On so many levels it really isn't.

schmerl

So sad. I'm glad I visited these places long ago before all this mess.

AJPeabody

Too many tourists, too few wonders of the world. I always marvel at how the places I saw for free years ago are now both crowded and carry an entry fee. The days of just walking into the Colosseum or the Forum are long gone.

Jean

Amen to that. We've found that re-visiting places is usually very disappointing.

zebec

Totally agree with all of the above. Soooooooo true.
I am done. the wants and the needs

Fra_Diavolo

My first trip to Italy in 1971 you just walked in to both the Forum and the Colosseum -- although the Colosseum was the center of a giant rotary that had to be crossed.

Of course, it's not just Europe. In the US our National Parks are jammed, and NYC gets ever more tourists.

gruezi

Mass tourism is definitely impacting individual enjoyment.

(I’m another one who now avoids touristic spots because I hate crowds and lines and poor behavior.)

That said, I’ve visited the Pantheon quite a few times because it’s one of my favorite sites in Rome. But, in those visits I was basically just strolling by and stopped in. I don’t remember any line or crowds at all. I haven’t been to Rome in quite a few years though.

Back when I spent a lot of time there, I often found tourist sites in Italy alarmingly “accessible” and with little protection of the country’s ancient heritage. If an entrance fee will help preserve these places for posterity, then it’s a good idea.

Gwendolynn

The first time I visited the Duomo in Siena (early 80's) I just walked in and actually walked on the beautiful floors.
On the second visit the floors were covered. On my third visit there was a rope line.

As Zebec said: "the lines, the scalpers, the full bladder and the sunburn." (especially the bladder.)

hetismij2

Sadly I doubt it will stop this sort of thing.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-england-brist.

Dubrovnik seems to have backtracked on it's wheelie luggage ban but I can understand completely why some cities want a ban on them.

Dukey1

I have sometimes traveled in the so-called "shoulder" and even the "off" seasons because of the "mob scene" possibilities. Our first trip to Switzerland was in October and it was great. April has also worked. Perhaps I have been lucky

mlgb

I'm not sure there are any off seasons any more. Unless one counts "long ago".

zebec

Exactly a year ago in Chipping Campden, we bought tickets online for an outdoors performance of 'As You Like It' (Shakespeare, Gruezi). That was by a touring Stratford company. We treated friends who lived nearby.
But the purchasing process was faulty and it took us a number of attempts over several days. I said many bad words and kicked imaginary objects. At first, we thought it must be us (eedyawts!), but then we spoke with the elderly neighbour beside our rental. She too, was having repeated problems trying to purchase those same online tickets. She'd actually given up.

One crosses one's fingers in hopes of technical arrangements that will work.

I am done. the be or not to be

annhig

I couldn't agree more either, Zebec, but perhaps that's because I've been fortunate enough to see the majority of all the "must sees" in the places I am likely to visit. As for those in places I haven't yet been to, I reckon that if I've got to the ripe old age of nearly 67 not seeing them, I can quite happily continue in that state indefinitely. After all it is very often the unexpected and unplanned for experience that proves to be the most enjoyable and memorable. Having said that I did make a special effort last year to revisit Ste Chappelle but I refused to line up; instead I walked up to the Conciergerie, bought a combined ticket there where there was no queue at all, and then went back to Ste Chappelle and walked straight in past the "sans culottes" queuing out in the street. The bonus was that I got to see the Conciergerie which I'd never visited before and now I have seen Ste Chappelle twice I have no desire to see it again.

carolyn

One advantage to being such an advanced age is that I got to see things when you could actually move around and see them. My first encounter with a crowded situation was at Colonial Williamsburg. The first trip was with DD when she was 13 and we rode around on the little grey busses, walked around, toured the houses, and ate at the taverns and restaurants at will. The last time was lines, crowding, and pandemonium.

annhig

<<That said, I’ve visited the Pantheon quite a few times because it’s one of my favorite sites in Rome. But, in those visits I was basically just strolling by and stopped in. I don’t remember any line or crowds at all. I haven’t been to Rome in quite a few years though.

Back when I spent a lot of time there, I often found tourist sites in Italy alarmingly “accessible” and with little protection of the country’s ancient heritage. If an entrance fee will help preserve these places for posterity, then it’s a good idea.>>

Me too, Gruezi, but I don't see me queuing up to pay €5 to visit it, let alone struggling to do so on line - my memories will have to suffice. As for neglected monuments I remember asking an italian teacher about this when I was at a language school in Tuscany where we were falling over ancient sites every 5 minutes. She said that they had tried using guards but that just meant that the thieves knew where to look; they actually lost less if they just left places that weren't actively being excavated alone. I suspect that another factor is cost - if they tried to guard every historical site in Italy the country would soon be bankrupt.

curiousgeo

I recall visiting a famous temple in the hills above Kyoto 40 some years ago. There were at most one or two dozen people on the entire grounds. I found a beautiful garden on the side and sat for 30 minutes enjoying a peaceful interlude before another person came.

A few years ago I visited again. There were masses of people crowded everywhere, 8 buses entering, another 12 buses parked. And that garden had a line winding around to enter and now having to pay an entry fee. Time and tourism marches on.

bilboburgler

everyone wants a middle class life style, and more and more can afford it

who are we not to allow it, even if it does destroy our civilisation