Bernina / Glacier Express Query
Mar 6th, 2009, 12:45 PM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bernina / Glacier Express Query
Hi
I would be grateful if anyone could help with the following. I have looked at many Websites but I,m still none the wiser. I,ll keep it brief.
Im travelling from Paris to Milan ( By train) then on to Peschiera Del Garda for a Campsite holiday in September this year. I have always wanted to try one of the scenic trains in Switzerland, like the Bernina Express.Has anyone any ideas how I could depart Paris and still travel to my destination in Peshiera Del Garda but somehow combine a scenic train journey in between. (Bearing in mind I will be travelling with a suitcase). I do have a couple of spare days in between travelling so I could maybe stay over somewhere, but I would still have to arrive at my Campsite.
Hope this makes sense Many Thanks
I would be grateful if anyone could help with the following. I have looked at many Websites but I,m still none the wiser. I,ll keep it brief.
Im travelling from Paris to Milan ( By train) then on to Peschiera Del Garda for a Campsite holiday in September this year. I have always wanted to try one of the scenic trains in Switzerland, like the Bernina Express.Has anyone any ideas how I could depart Paris and still travel to my destination in Peshiera Del Garda but somehow combine a scenic train journey in between. (Bearing in mind I will be travelling with a suitcase). I do have a couple of spare days in between travelling so I could maybe stay over somewhere, but I would still have to arrive at my Campsite.
Hope this makes sense Many Thanks
Mar 6th, 2009, 12:51 PM
#2
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
check out: www.theswisstravelsystem.com; www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html.
The Bernina Express is in far southeastern Switzerland next to Italy - the Golden Pass scneic train would be easy enough to incorporate coming from Paris. The Glacier Express to me is one of the most over-hyped things in European travel - lots more scenic rail routes than that - the Bernina being tops but remote. Don't neglect looking into a Swiss Pass even for this seemingly limited type of travel. Compare fares at www.sbb.ch - Swiss Fed Railways website. Passes cheaper if bought in U.s. for some reason - significantly so last time i compared.
The Bernina Express is in far southeastern Switzerland next to Italy - the Golden Pass scneic train would be easy enough to incorporate coming from Paris. The Glacier Express to me is one of the most over-hyped things in European travel - lots more scenic rail routes than that - the Bernina being tops but remote. Don't neglect looking into a Swiss Pass even for this seemingly limited type of travel. Compare fares at www.sbb.ch - Swiss Fed Railways website. Passes cheaper if bought in U.s. for some reason - significantly so last time i compared.
Mar 9th, 2009, 12:57 PM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you want to take a day longer getting to Milan then consider this route that incorporates the Bernina Pass train route (and Bernina Express trains):
Paris to Zurich by TGV; go onto St Moritz by Swiss train
Stay overnight
Next day take the Bernina trains to Tirano, Italy (end of the line) and from Tirano Italian trains to Milan - these trains go along Lake Como so if going to Bellagio, etc. you'd get off at a lakeside station and take a boat to Bellagio.
Otherwise you cannot do Paris-Zurich-Bernina-Milan in one day - even an absurdly long day.
Is the Bernina worth it? IMO it's the most awesomely scenic train in Switzerland - the only train line that goes up and over the Alps north to south - cresting over the Bernina Pass at around 10-11,000 feet - and a world of glaciers, glacial lakes, ice-girdled peaks, etc.
Paris to Zurich by TGV; go onto St Moritz by Swiss train
Stay overnight
Next day take the Bernina trains to Tirano, Italy (end of the line) and from Tirano Italian trains to Milan - these trains go along Lake Como so if going to Bellagio, etc. you'd get off at a lakeside station and take a boat to Bellagio.
Otherwise you cannot do Paris-Zurich-Bernina-Milan in one day - even an absurdly long day.
Is the Bernina worth it? IMO it's the most awesomely scenic train in Switzerland - the only train line that goes up and over the Alps north to south - cresting over the Bernina Pass at around 10-11,000 feet - and a world of glaciers, glacial lakes, ice-girdled peaks, etc.
Jun 9th, 2009, 08:26 PM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Let me first just say that the regular train ride between Paris and Milan will offer some excellent scenery of its own, so if you can’t work out one of the “scenic” trains don’t worry overly about it. I also think you will find the train journey from Milan to the Lake Garda area to be very lovely as well.
Also, you generally can send luggage ahead of you by train within Europe. It’s quite safe and easy in most countries, I have not done this in Italy and can’t speak as to the reliability of it, but its very reliable in Switzerland. So you could consider sending a large suitcase ahead of you and just taking a small bag for an overnight. Most state rail websites provide info on this or see rail.ch, the Swiss Rail website.
With regard to going from Paris to Milan, if you take the shortest route, this will take you via Brig, which is the changing point for Zermatt, and which IMO you could easily do a day or overnight trip to Zermatt from that point. Leave your larger bags in storage at Brig and then take the little red train up the valley to Zermatt. That is a scenic ride, plus there is the little Gornegrat train up the mountain side in Zermatt itself which is scenic in the extreme, and also some great cable car rides.
Otherwise, you could take the TGV to Geneva or Montreux (a lovely ride, about 4.5 hours) and take the Golden Pass train as mentioned above which is a very scenic trip indeed. The train ends in Lucerne, from which you can go on to Milan (this ride is also quite lovely). You may want to or need to overnight somewhere on this route as doing the entire trip in one day may not be feasible or attractive. (Although a light night train to Milan may be an option.)
Doing the Bernina from St Moritz as mentioned above is a good idea too, and the high glacier portionis spectacular, although I feel completed to point out that the train ride from Zurich to St Moritz is ALSO part of the Bernina, and IMO is absolutely lovely, especially the part from Chur onwards and in particular the Bever valley. It is not high mountain glaciers, but gorgeous scenery. It should not be overlooked nor done at night. I would say that that it’s a longish day even just from St Moritz to then go on to Milan from Tirano, but look at rbb.ch and rail.ch and see how the timetables work for you.
I agree that the Glacier Express is not worth your time and trouble. It is overhyped (like Lucerne IMO).
<b>mike_b12</b> Actually, if you take the train to Davos from Zurich, you will already betaking part of the Bernina Express, which is in several sections. The best known is the high glacier portion which runs from St Moritz to Tirano. You can do this easily as a half day trip from Davos by taking the train from Davos to St Moritz, and then getting on the “official” Bernina Express cars there for the ride to Tirano and back. (However, the portion between Davos and St Moritz is very lovely in itself and most of it is actually part of the lower section of the Bernina, you just aren’t paying for the panorama cars, which you don’t need on the lower sections IMO). The entire Bernina Express trip runs officially from Chur to Tirano (i.e. you get on the panorama cars in Chur, many people do this as a day trip from Zurich), but you can also board the panorama cars in St Moritz which I would suggest you do. For info on the Bernina Express, go to rbb.ch.
At some other point you could take the “regular” Swiss train down the Bever valley to Chur and back; and also if you have time, you should also consider taking the excellent walk down through the Bever valley, which is mostly under and/or in view of the famous Landwasser train viaduct, this walk is about 10 miles. This walk is easy, is mostly on a road and is downhill virtually all the way. You take a train to Filisur, and then walk down through the valley from there and train back to Davos. Also while in Davos be sure to take the funicular up to the Berhof hotel for wonderful views, have lunch and if you can do it, take the walk down.
Also, you generally can send luggage ahead of you by train within Europe. It’s quite safe and easy in most countries, I have not done this in Italy and can’t speak as to the reliability of it, but its very reliable in Switzerland. So you could consider sending a large suitcase ahead of you and just taking a small bag for an overnight. Most state rail websites provide info on this or see rail.ch, the Swiss Rail website.
With regard to going from Paris to Milan, if you take the shortest route, this will take you via Brig, which is the changing point for Zermatt, and which IMO you could easily do a day or overnight trip to Zermatt from that point. Leave your larger bags in storage at Brig and then take the little red train up the valley to Zermatt. That is a scenic ride, plus there is the little Gornegrat train up the mountain side in Zermatt itself which is scenic in the extreme, and also some great cable car rides.
Otherwise, you could take the TGV to Geneva or Montreux (a lovely ride, about 4.5 hours) and take the Golden Pass train as mentioned above which is a very scenic trip indeed. The train ends in Lucerne, from which you can go on to Milan (this ride is also quite lovely). You may want to or need to overnight somewhere on this route as doing the entire trip in one day may not be feasible or attractive. (Although a light night train to Milan may be an option.)
Doing the Bernina from St Moritz as mentioned above is a good idea too, and the high glacier portionis spectacular, although I feel completed to point out that the train ride from Zurich to St Moritz is ALSO part of the Bernina, and IMO is absolutely lovely, especially the part from Chur onwards and in particular the Bever valley. It is not high mountain glaciers, but gorgeous scenery. It should not be overlooked nor done at night. I would say that that it’s a longish day even just from St Moritz to then go on to Milan from Tirano, but look at rbb.ch and rail.ch and see how the timetables work for you.
I agree that the Glacier Express is not worth your time and trouble. It is overhyped (like Lucerne IMO).
<b>mike_b12</b> Actually, if you take the train to Davos from Zurich, you will already betaking part of the Bernina Express, which is in several sections. The best known is the high glacier portion which runs from St Moritz to Tirano. You can do this easily as a half day trip from Davos by taking the train from Davos to St Moritz, and then getting on the “official” Bernina Express cars there for the ride to Tirano and back. (However, the portion between Davos and St Moritz is very lovely in itself and most of it is actually part of the lower section of the Bernina, you just aren’t paying for the panorama cars, which you don’t need on the lower sections IMO). The entire Bernina Express trip runs officially from Chur to Tirano (i.e. you get on the panorama cars in Chur, many people do this as a day trip from Zurich), but you can also board the panorama cars in St Moritz which I would suggest you do. For info on the Bernina Express, go to rbb.ch.
At some other point you could take the “regular” Swiss train down the Bever valley to Chur and back; and also if you have time, you should also consider taking the excellent walk down through the Bever valley, which is mostly under and/or in view of the famous Landwasser train viaduct, this walk is about 10 miles. This walk is easy, is mostly on a road and is downhill virtually all the way. You take a train to Filisur, and then walk down through the valley from there and train back to Davos. Also while in Davos be sure to take the funicular up to the Berhof hotel for wonderful views, have lunch and if you can do it, take the walk down.
Jun 10th, 2009, 09:42 AM
#7
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,920
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you take the train from Zürich to Davos you won't be taking part of the Bernina Express. You change trains in Landquart, not in Chur, and go via Klosters to Davos. This is definitely NOT part of the Bernina route.
So, you just hop on the cute red trains in Davos and go with changes in Filisur, Samedan and Pontresina to Tirano. Takes almost 4 hours one way (so no half-day trip), same back. I recommend the regular regional trains, not the Panoramic trains which require reservations. See www.sbb.ch for schedules and fares.
Btw, not sure which walk Cicerone describes here. I'd say she mixes up the Landwasser valley (Davos) and the Albula valley (Filisur, Bergün). But it's definitely not the Bever valley.
And the funicular in Davos goes to Hotel Schatzalp, not Berhof. But it is indeed a very nice place.
So, you just hop on the cute red trains in Davos and go with changes in Filisur, Samedan and Pontresina to Tirano. Takes almost 4 hours one way (so no half-day trip), same back. I recommend the regular regional trains, not the Panoramic trains which require reservations. See www.sbb.ch for schedules and fares.
Btw, not sure which walk Cicerone describes here. I'd say she mixes up the Landwasser valley (Davos) and the Albula valley (Filisur, Bergün). But it's definitely not the Bever valley.
And the funicular in Davos goes to Hotel Schatzalp, not Berhof. But it is indeed a very nice place.
Trending Topics
Jun 10th, 2009, 09:55 AM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And to add to all the excellent advice from cicerone and ingo i believe there is the Heidi Express which may leave from Davos itself and go direct to St Moritz and even perhaps to Tirano. I will try to check on it.
Jun 10th, 2009, 09:56 AM
#9
Good post Ingo. Just wanted to make clear that usually the Panoramic wagons are usually hooked up to the normal trains so it really is the same thing. The advantage of a Panoramic Wagon is the more comfortable seats, the huge windows and the air conditioning. I don't think you open up the windows though. In the second class wagons, windows can usually be opened.
Jun 10th, 2009, 11:48 AM
#11
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 17,549
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've done the Glacier Express three times and this past April I finally did the Bernina.
I disagree that the Glacier is "overhyped" but that's obviously a subjective opinion. realize that the two routes coincide in at least one area.
The Bernina is a shorter ride from Chur to Tirano (4 hours or so) vs. the full-length Glacier route (8 hours)
The panorama coaches are DEFINITELY worth the money.
If I could only do ONE of these I would agree the Bernina is a better one...more spectacular scenery in a shorter length of time.
I disagree that the Glacier is "overhyped" but that's obviously a subjective opinion. realize that the two routes coincide in at least one area.
The Bernina is a shorter ride from Chur to Tirano (4 hours or so) vs. the full-length Glacier route (8 hours)
The panorama coaches are DEFINITELY worth the money.
If I could only do ONE of these I would agree the Bernina is a better one...more spectacular scenery in a shorter length of time.
Jun 10th, 2009, 12:14 PM
#12
Last October, I went on the normal 2nd class wagon. It was VERY crowded going from Pontresina to Poschiavo. We were sitting too close together, some people had to stand and it was hard to get a good view out of the windows. The man next to me stank too. Once we reached the top, a lot of people had left and suddenly it become comfortable and we could really enjoy the views and even open the windows for some great pictures.
Going back from Poschiavo to Pontresina that same day, we were in a wagon with 3 other people and could go back and forth for the views without disturbing anyone. Once we reached the top, more people entered the wagon and then it began to get crowded again.
If you have the Panoramic Wagon, at least you don't have to fight the crowds.
Going back from Poschiavo to Pontresina that same day, we were in a wagon with 3 other people and could go back and forth for the views without disturbing anyone. Once we reached the top, more people entered the wagon and then it began to get crowded again.
If you have the Panoramic Wagon, at least you don't have to fight the crowds.
Jun 11th, 2009, 08:27 AM
#13
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Switzerland Graubünden - Heidi Express
Heidi Express Switzerland Graubünden Davos The Bernina Express travels through some of the most glorious scenery in Switzerland. As an added bonus, ...
http://www.karenbrown.com/Attraction...press/1981.php
Heidi Express Switzerland Graubünden Davos The Bernina Express travels through some of the most glorious scenery in Switzerland. As an added bonus, ...
http://www.karenbrown.com/Attraction...press/1981.php
Jun 12th, 2009, 12:57 PM
#14
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
though the Panoramic cars are spiffy and unique to Switzerland it seems i have ridden over the Bernina line on an open-air platform car - with just rails on the sides - totally open. I guess a few trains a day in nicer weather have these open-air cars that to me was just so so surreal - like levitating thru such amazing Alpine wonderland scenery.
Jun 12th, 2009, 11:10 PM
#16
Jun 15th, 2009, 08:10 AM
#17
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah Schuler - thanks again for that link (which you provided once before) - interesting that open-air cars are also on the Chur-Arosa scenic rail line which i plan to take on my next visit to Suisse - glad to know that.
Jun 16th, 2009, 01:23 PM
#18
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
www.thewsisstravelsystem.com the Swiss Railways site says you can make reservations for scenic Swiss trains by phoning 00800 100 200 30 - i have not tried this yet but thought i would pass forward - for folks with a Swiss Pass they can i think make a reservation without paying until retrieval.
I am not sure this number works from the U.S. however and if so do you deleted the first two 00's like usual from European numbers and only use them from inside the country?
I am not sure this number works from the U.S. however and if so do you deleted the first two 00's like usual from European numbers and only use them from inside the country?
Jun 16th, 2009, 06:17 PM
#19
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 7,689
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, the number works from outside Switzerland. It is of course a toll call. But you have to dial you international access code, then 41, the country code for Switzerland first And yes, drop the 00. From the US, to get international access, you dial 011, so calling from the US, the number is
011- 41-800-100-200-30
However, the recording (which is only in German) recording indicates that the line is only staffed Monday to Friday from 8 am - 9 pm Swiss time. I believe you would not have trouble finding an English-speaking operator if you called during those times.
IMO you are better offer calling Swiss Rail’s general number at 011-41-900-300-300. Press 4 for English. Staff speak English and I believe the line is staffed 24 hours.
011- 41-800-100-200-30
However, the recording (which is only in German) recording indicates that the line is only staffed Monday to Friday from 8 am - 9 pm Swiss time. I believe you would not have trouble finding an English-speaking operator if you called during those times.
IMO you are better offer calling Swiss Rail’s general number at 011-41-900-300-300. Press 4 for English. Staff speak English and I believe the line is staffed 24 hours.
Jun 16th, 2009, 09:07 PM
#20
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,920
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wrong, Cicerone. It is a toll-free number. The double zero makes it that. I don't see you have to dial the country code. But you have to dial '011' from the U.S. instead of '00' I think. From Germany we call the number as it is listed.
Btw, the correct link is www.swisstravelsystem.ch
Btw, the correct link is www.swisstravelsystem.ch
