LucieV

<<<Sultanahmet is nowhere near Taksim Sq.>>>

Exactly. This point has been made elsewhere on Fodors, but travelers don't seem to believe it. You have to make a special effort to go to TS if you are staying in Sultanahmet. Traveling from Ataturk to Sultanahmet, you won't even drive near Taksim Square. Istanbul is a big, spread-out city. Sultanahmet is a very small tourist area, quite insulated from the rest of the city, so small that <i>everything</i> is within walking distance from everything else.

<<<I would rather face tear gas than a Sultanahmet carpet salesman.>>>

Amen. Double amen, in fact.

otherchelebi

Thanks BigAl and others.

Turkey is one of the remnants of the Ottoman Empire, saved from the Allies in WW1 and the ruling Ottoman family by a a very able secular leader who managed to win against all invading forces from Russia, France, England, Italy and Greece to establish a secular state. He changed the script from Arabic to Latin, forbid the covering of women and emancipated women in the late twenties before many Western countries, and tried to impose the visions of "Peace in the Country, Peace On Earth" and "Total Westernization and Modernization". He and his assistant who took over after his death in 1938 were successful in keeping Turkey out of WW2.

However, religious activism continued under cover in the form of three major and a number of minor sects, meeting clandestinely and keeping their females without their rights (possibly a bit like the Mormons). These groups were, unfortunately, further supported by the United States as a possible defense against communism during the Cold War.

One of these sects, started a plan of infiltration of all significant bureaucratic institutions about forty or maybe fifty years ago. They were very successful within the judiciary and the police, and finally got there in the military in the last few years by having about 40% of all high level commanding officers in the Navy 30% in the the Air Force and a smaller % in the Army on trumped up coup charges based on false electronic evidence attested by US and European research labs to have been prepared after the supposed events.

The current government is the resut of the partnership of the three major sects and some minor ones. This time around, their strong United Staes support was due to the misguided reason of trying to make Turkey a "Moderate Islamic" state and an example of friendly Islam to other Islamic countries.

One of the major sects and the one which handled almost all infiltrations especially in the police and the judiciary is headed by a leader who is protected by the United States and lives in luxury in Pennsylvania, supposedly as the person who established over a thousand schools in almost 100 countries, including about 150 in the United States. (His schools, many in Texas teach "Creationism")

During the last three years, the Primeminister, and that leader started to disagree on the time for complete Islamisation and are now having some lover's quarrels about the high handed tactics of the PM.

The PM has been reducing the secularism in Turkish government and bureaucracy, allowing religious symbols and activity in government and limiting the celebration of the national holidays relating to breaking away from Ottoman rule, as well trying to impose Islamic values on the way of life of the citizens. There are now effectively alcohol bans in almost 67 of the 81 cities except in touristic zones, when there were none only 12 years ago.

For some years, the PM has been fighting and arresting journalists and writers who wrote of the control of the bureaucracy by him and by the sects and keeping them jailed by all means available to the courts who favor the false evidence.
There are more journalists and writers jailed in Turkey than there are in any other country in the World.

Turkey is the country against which the most European Human Right Court judgements have been made in the last ten years.

He reduced the schooling age to 5 and included courses in Islam and the life of the prophet instead of the course in Turkish Modernization.

So, the park was the spark that was coming.

Now, the event has grown into anti-dictatorialism and the desire for people to have free speech and the freedom of thought and expression.

Cowboy1968

I don't know where BigAlenstein gets his wisdom from about the situation of the now 3rd and 4th of residents or citizens in Germany with Turkish background, parents or passports.

While it is always hard to find a balance between 100 and 0 percent integration, and it's still a sometimes bumpy path you cannot think of the Turks to be so stupid to migrate in their largest number exactly to a country that you say treats them badly. What kind of logic would that be?

And those who have Turkish background or citizenship are not just "workers" anymore.. good grief, this is not the 1950s anymore.
My assistant's "Turkish guestworker" husband is an engineer with Siemens and currently in China to built a skyscraper. Others are politicians, cops, news anchors, businessmen..
The times when Turkish people had no option but to run a fruit or döner stand or work in a factory are long gone...

BigAleinstein

And those who have Turkish background or citizenship are not just "workers" anymore.. good grief, this is not the 1950s anymore.
__________
My "wisdom" comes from learning about the issue.

Maybe the 1950's were better. The present unemployment for Turks in Germany is 25% while the overall unemployment is 6.9%. My cousin was a guest worker from Spain many years ago and he was also treated like garbage. Here are just a few articles which highlight the problem including the cite for the 25% unemployment among Turks.

http://www.turkishweekly.net/article...n-germany.html

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...n-germany.html

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/featur...-guest-workers

BigAleinstein

You are welcome OC. I am hopeful that your family and friends will reamin safe and that the independent, moderate, and thoughtful Turks will prevail.

Good luck my friend.

otherchelebi

We are about to leave for our first excursion up to Taksim Square since it all started. Wil take photos and post them on my blog and some on Eser's face book.

otherchelebi

Just came back from a long walk. Took a small Cannon SX230 HS but wish we had taken the Pentax DSLR. There was absolutely no danger. Lots of people aroundboth the square and Istiklal doing their routine, plus groups of 50-200 students mostly walking and chanting every now and then on Istiklal and about a few thousand dispersed in the park and around the square. Some roads apparently open so some taxis around. many curious locals with cameras and quite a few tourists. Free food and water stands at some points. The park very clean with freshly planted flowers and trash bags frquently placed.

I even had an interesting discussion with an undercover police agent who claimed to be a bank employee, but was probably placed to protect a pro-government TV shooting at the barricades saying how these vandals disrupted life in Istanbul and destroyed public property.

You will see photos of the kids on my blog. I am not ashamed to say that both I and Eser cried when we saw the concern and involvement of these teenagers in the future of the country, the same kids that the PM called vandals and scavengers.

Bosphorus University Radio providing news on where there are police attacks, who is trapped and where, etc.

Medical students are wearing green arm bands and sharing telephones and locations of all participating pharmacies, clinics and doctors in the protest areas.

More groups were arriving on the scene as we walked back to our home.

Will now check Channel 53 for more news

otherchelebi

There is a modern scourge called "Twitter" said the PM yesterday, "It should be banned with all social media for spreading lies".

Here's an article on the use of twitter during last few days of protests :

http://t.co/dnuFpsMdpU

isemida

Thanks for the updates otherchelebi! We are off this afternoon and I am excited for my first trip to Istanbul despite all this.

@sf7307: We are staying right by Topkapi in Sultanahmet - I will post updates whenever we can get online.

Vttraveler

Thanks for all the updates, OC.

I just realized that our Vermont attorney general along with other attorneys general from other states left on Friday for a series of meetings in Turkey. According to the press release:

[They] will meet with high–ranking Turkish officials including President Gul, the Turkish ambassador to the United States, the Ministry of Justice, the Parliamentarian Commission on the Constitution, and Chief Judge of the Constitutional Court. In addition, the delegation will be meeting with Turkish journalists, lawyers and business representatives. “I am pleased to be a part of this delegation,” said Sorrell. “It provides the Attorneys General with the opportunity to learn about and discuss common legal problems, such as issues relating to cyber security, consumer fraud, and human trafficking, and to explore potential solutions. More importantly, it provides us with the opportunity to share with others the importance of freedom of the press, civil rights, the rule of law and other principles so basic to democracy.”

Probably not the best time for this trip from the government's point of view.

HappyTrvlr

OC..How does one access ypur blog with the photos?

BigAleinstein

Thsnk you for the update.

sf7307

Thanks for the update, OC. We spent yesterday looking at alternative trips, but it looks like Istanbul is still "on" as we had hoped. Glad to hear things have calmed down a bit.

xyz99

sf7307, when are you going?

sf7307

We arrive in Istanbul a week from today.

xyz99

Have a safe trip, looking forward for your TR.

Pepper_von_snoot

As another poster noted above, when coming from the airport to Sultanahmet you will not pass anywhere near Taksim Square.

Sultanahmet has nothing to do with the rest of Istanbul.

It really is just a tourist village around the Blue Mosque and Hagia Sophia.

Thin

otherchelebi

My blog is posted :

http://ahmetcafercelebiler.blogspot....tiklal-in.html

The police atrocities and the PM's defiance are growing.

Reminds one of other occasions in other countries doesn't it?

Now, not only the opposition but others on more TV channels are calling for the PM to resign.

sf7307

I'm confused by your last post OC. At 4:22 a.m., you wrote that there was absolutely no danger. In this last post, you imply there continue to be police atrocities. Can you clarify?

otherchelebi

sf, the police atrocities are in an area in proximity to the Primeministers Istanbul office within the Dolmabahce Palace grounds, thus extending from Kabatas towards Ortalkoy and covering large portions of Besiktas and the area above Dolmabahce Mosque towards Taksim.

There are also major cases of violence in Ankara, which continue. The other protests are still on but the police does not seem to attack everywhere.

The rest of istanbul and the resorts are peaceful so far even if there are some protests.

Taksim was and still is safe and the last news is that music systems are being set up for some concerts.