Buying a house in the Languedoc - the hunt begins
Dec 7th, 2013, 05:20 AM
#61
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Very true ,Alec and treatment varies depending on which non-EU country you are a citizen of. For example, the US French consulate web site states that US citizens intending to reside in France with an EU spouse other than a French spouse, can enter without a visa and apply once in France.
I could not find anything to that effect on the Canadian French consulate website which is not to say the policy is different, the website may be incomplete.
Really a minefield and checking and re-checking is necessary. A minor nit, but no one should be advised to contact the embassy, it is always the consulate for visa issues. The embassy and consulate may be co-located but the consulate is point of contact.
I could not find anything to that effect on the Canadian French consulate website which is not to say the policy is different, the website may be incomplete.
Really a minefield and checking and re-checking is necessary. A minor nit, but no one should be advised to contact the embassy, it is always the consulate for visa issues. The embassy and consulate may be co-located but the consulate is point of contact.
Dec 7th, 2013, 09:51 AM
#62
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<<US French consulate web site states that US citizens intending to reside in France with an EU spouse other than a French spouse, can enter without a visa and apply once in France.>>
That's exactly what the French consulate here in DC has advised us - and when we arrive with the intention of setting up permanent residence, I am to enter the country with my Irish passport.
That's exactly what the French consulate here in DC has advised us - and when we arrive with the intention of setting up permanent residence, I am to enter the country with my Irish passport.
Dec 7th, 2013, 11:48 AM
#63
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Exactly. Then start with your mairie to get running tab a titre de sejour. They initially sent us to the prefecture in Toulouse where we were told, "Non," start at your mairie.
To be fair, we were the first EU/nonEU couple in the village. Once they knew it was their responsibility, they got on with it and I had a 10-year titre within 3 months.
Disclaimer, this was four years' ago and local responsibilities have been consolidated so you may be sent elsewhere but do obtain an attestation from le maire that your and running tab's primary residence is in the village--one more piece for the dossier!
To be fair, we were the first EU/nonEU couple in the village. Once they knew it was their responsibility, they got on with it and I had a 10-year titre within 3 months.
Disclaimer, this was four years' ago and local responsibilities have been consolidated so you may be sent elsewhere but do obtain an attestation from le maire that your and running tab's primary residence is in the village--one more piece for the dossier!
Dec 7th, 2013, 12:22 PM
#65
<<Kerouac, we learned the hard way that notaires are first and foremost tax collectors for the State. They will ensure that all inspections are in compliance, etc., but can be sloppy and certainly are not advocates for the buyer even if the buyer selects the notaire. Before you get hot under the collar, this is no different than in the States where the function is performed by closing agents.>>
Ha ha, I would never get hot under the collar about the reliability of notaires because I know practically nothing about what they actually do -- I have only dealt with them twice in my life, once when I bought my apartment and a second time when I bought my attic. However, I do know that it is notaires who get 'hot under the collar' when people complain about "notaires' fees" because it implies that they are raking in lots of money when in reality about 90% of the money is not for them at all but for the fiscal authorities.
One thing that I have heard about notaires is that in small towns, they are apparently a better source of information of what is for sale in the area and can save people from paying commission to real estate agents, which they are delighted to bypass whenever possible.
Ha ha, I would never get hot under the collar about the reliability of notaires because I know practically nothing about what they actually do -- I have only dealt with them twice in my life, once when I bought my apartment and a second time when I bought my attic. However, I do know that it is notaires who get 'hot under the collar' when people complain about "notaires' fees" because it implies that they are raking in lots of money when in reality about 90% of the money is not for them at all but for the fiscal authorities.
One thing that I have heard about notaires is that in small towns, they are apparently a better source of information of what is for sale in the area and can save people from paying commission to real estate agents, which they are delighted to bypass whenever possible.
Dec 7th, 2013, 01:16 PM
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<<One thing that I have heard about notaires is that in small towns, they are apparently a better source of information of what is for sale in the area and can save people from paying commission to real estate agents>>
Yup. In my neck of the woods properties are often listed first with notaires. It's considered smart to go to notaires before consulting real estate agencies, as they often have the "scoop" on properties before they are listed (if they ever are).
Yup. In my neck of the woods properties are often listed first with notaires. It's considered smart to go to notaires before consulting real estate agencies, as they often have the "scoop" on properties before they are listed (if they ever are).
Dec 7th, 2013, 03:12 PM
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Agree. The notaire fees that end up in the notaire's pocket don't amount to that much, IME, compared to the fees for an estate agent. Plus, in my limited experience, you get a lot more face (or telephone) time with the seller.
Dec 8th, 2013, 08:22 AM
#69
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Cath, how does one go about finding a notaire in a particular town? I imagine in a small village, the maire can point you in the right direction, but in a larger town, would this be the correct approach?
Dec 8th, 2013, 09:04 AM
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We initially used the recommendation of a friend, but the mairie would be a could place to start. If the notaire has any listings, they are sometimes posted in front of the office (in small towns). If you are working with a real estate agent, h/s might recommend a notaire. You are under no obligation to use that suggestion and the notaire does not have to be in the same village where you are buying, although that has advantages.
We used a local notaire when we purchased additional land, purely because he had a good standing in the village and he had notarized some paperwork for me and would not accept a fee.
Notaires belong to a highly regulated professional society and despite my remark about "sloppy" the vast majority are reliable, occasionally having to be nudged a bit. We ( in North America) are used to more frequent updates, status reports, etc., which are not as common here.
We used a local notaire when we purchased additional land, purely because he had a good standing in the village and he had notarized some paperwork for me and would not accept a fee.
Notaires belong to a highly regulated professional society and despite my remark about "sloppy" the vast majority are reliable, occasionally having to be nudged a bit. We ( in North America) are used to more frequent updates, status reports, etc., which are not as common here.
Dec 8th, 2013, 11:16 AM
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Dec 8th, 2013, 12:13 PM
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"how does one go about finding a notaire in a particular town?"
Word of mouth or the phone book. The buyer has the choice of the notary but nothing prevents you from chosing the seller's notary. You can also decide to have the documents signed in 'double minute' - the seller's notary and your own, in which case they split the fees (no extra charge for you). It is an extra level of security in case something goes wrong.
Word of mouth or the phone book. The buyer has the choice of the notary but nothing prevents you from chosing the seller's notary. You can also decide to have the documents signed in 'double minute' - the seller's notary and your own, in which case they split the fees (no extra charge for you). It is an extra level of security in case something goes wrong.
Dec 9th, 2013, 02:38 AM
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One of the greatest challenges for non US retirees considering moving to France is obtaining cost effective French medical insurance, which can get prohibitively expensive as you get older, or unobtainable if you have pre-existing chronic medical conditions. For retiree EU citizens moving from the UK to France for example this is not an issue, as if they have a sufficient social security contribution record in the UK, the UK will pay the French government for the British retirees health care needs in France, under an EU wide reciprocal agreement. However, there is no such agreement between the US and the EU, probably in part because the US does not have a government funded health care scheme it can reciprocate with, nor offer retiree visas. I believe the same situation arises with Canada in that there are no retiree health agreements with Europe.
The reality therefore is most US citizens who move to France as retirees end up eventually returning to the USA to access Medicare, as the cost of their private medical insurance in France escalates with the age of the insured and inevitable increase in claims history. Basically, the insurers review your claims history each year before setting your premium for the following year.
It used to be that after a period of extended French health residence you could apply to join the French health care system, but this door has been closed by the French health authorities to non EU retirees who are not married to an EU citizen, who now have to produce evidence of private medical insurance cover before a non-working long stay visa will be granted and each time upon renewal.
Most western countries are not keen to attract retiree immigrants, unless they are very wealthy, as they are seen as a potential future drain on the over stretched social security and health systems, to which they would not have contributed during their working lives. The USA and Canada are no different as they do not offer long stay retiree visa options at all to retired EU citizens.
On a totally different subject, a new challenge for American citizens moving abroad, is FATCA or the Foreign Accounting Tax Compliance Act, which is producing such an expensive bureaucratic nightmare for banks and financial institutions outside the USA, that many are responding by barring US clients as too expensive to service because of the onerous FATCA reporting obligations and liabilities for non compliance. As a result many American expats abroad are now complaining that they are finding it increasingly difficult to access banking services outside the US. (The USA is one of only two countries in the world that taxes its citizens regardless of where they are permanently tax resident, hence FATCA which was introduced in part to catch US citizens living abroad that do not still pay their US taxes.)
The reality therefore is most US citizens who move to France as retirees end up eventually returning to the USA to access Medicare, as the cost of their private medical insurance in France escalates with the age of the insured and inevitable increase in claims history. Basically, the insurers review your claims history each year before setting your premium for the following year.
It used to be that after a period of extended French health residence you could apply to join the French health care system, but this door has been closed by the French health authorities to non EU retirees who are not married to an EU citizen, who now have to produce evidence of private medical insurance cover before a non-working long stay visa will be granted and each time upon renewal.
Most western countries are not keen to attract retiree immigrants, unless they are very wealthy, as they are seen as a potential future drain on the over stretched social security and health systems, to which they would not have contributed during their working lives. The USA and Canada are no different as they do not offer long stay retiree visa options at all to retired EU citizens.
On a totally different subject, a new challenge for American citizens moving abroad, is FATCA or the Foreign Accounting Tax Compliance Act, which is producing such an expensive bureaucratic nightmare for banks and financial institutions outside the USA, that many are responding by barring US clients as too expensive to service because of the onerous FATCA reporting obligations and liabilities for non compliance. As a result many American expats abroad are now complaining that they are finding it increasingly difficult to access banking services outside the US. (The USA is one of only two countries in the world that taxes its citizens regardless of where they are permanently tax resident, hence FATCA which was introduced in part to catch US citizens living abroad that do not still pay their US taxes.)
Dec 9th, 2013, 04:16 AM
#76
We rented a house in Prades in April a few years ago. Loved the area. The weather was all over the map -- snow one morning then warm terrace weather (I even braved the pool but I think I was just trying to be a hearty canadian).
This website was very helpful for expats -- there are several listings under various categories and an active forum.
http://www.the-languedoc-page.com/expat/
This website was very helpful for expats -- there are several listings under various categories and an active forum.
http://www.the-languedoc-page.com/expat/
Dec 9th, 2013, 09:01 AM
#77
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Thanks, Sprogster. Yes, well aware of FATCA from all of the work my company has had to do in Canada to report investment income for our American clients. On the health insurance front, we know we're going to have to pay out-of-country medical insurance at least until DH is 65 and hopefully can trigger his EU coverage, assuming that the rules don't change (again), which I'm sure they will.
Elizabeth - many thanks for the link.
Elizabeth - many thanks for the link.
Dec 9th, 2013, 09:12 AM
#78
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Here's the link to get started on determining whether your spouse will qualify for reciprocal healthcare in France. If he can't qualify based on past contributions, as a retiree you both MAY be able to apply directly to CPAM, the French system, and pay to participate, which may be cheaper than private insurance.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/international/...contributions/
The other wrinkle is you may have to declare France as your primary residence for tax purposes in order to claim reciprocal benefits or to apply directly to CPAM. I have no idea. That may not be beneficial.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/international/...contributions/
The other wrinkle is you may have to declare France as your primary residence for tax purposes in order to claim reciprocal benefits or to apply directly to CPAM. I have no idea. That may not be beneficial.
Dec 9th, 2013, 11:40 AM
#79
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mcburja, DH would only be covered under the EU reciprocal health care for retirees if he has a minimum national insurance contribution history in the UK of ten years for example. The entitlement is based on a period of residency in the EU and not connected to EU citizenship which other than allowing you residence rights gives no entitlement on its own to health care.
But this is irrelevant unless you are going to make France your permanent tax residence, as if France is going to be your second home as appears the case, then you cannot join the health system as a visitor.
But this is irrelevant unless you are going to make France your permanent tax residence, as if France is going to be your second home as appears the case, then you cannot join the health system as a visitor.
Dec 9th, 2013, 11:48 AM
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Yes, to get health care you have to actually be a resident of France, and pay taxes here. A little more than a wrinkle, I would say, unless someone actually wants to be a full time resident.
And even if you are, and aren't covered by another country's system, you generally have to wait 5 years before being allowed to join, even if you are willing to pay. (The reason European retirees are covered is that their costs are considered to be paid by their country of origin, through transfer payments from one country to the other. So, from what I understand, a British retiree living in France can belong to the system here, but at the end of the year the French government will demand a payment from the UK government for what it has disbursed - and vice versa.)
A complicated business, which needs a lot of research - and of course it's getting more and more difficult as the health system gets further into debt.
And even if you are, and aren't covered by another country's system, you generally have to wait 5 years before being allowed to join, even if you are willing to pay. (The reason European retirees are covered is that their costs are considered to be paid by their country of origin, through transfer payments from one country to the other. So, from what I understand, a British retiree living in France can belong to the system here, but at the end of the year the French government will demand a payment from the UK government for what it has disbursed - and vice versa.)
A complicated business, which needs a lot of research - and of course it's getting more and more difficult as the health system gets further into debt.
