quest

Dear Fodor's: <BR> <BR>My curiosity is just killing me so I have to ask these questions of you. I have seen more posts deleted today may 2, 2001) alone than I have in the last six months combined. TODAY, of all days, when that thorn in everyone's side (aka Rex Bickers) is finally away from this web site, you decide to begin wholesale censorship, including posts that are completely inoffensive, IMO. <BR> <BR>Where have you been for the past months when everyone was *begging* you to do something about the obnoxious omnipresence of Rex? Or even this past weekend and Monday? Why is this man permitted to pose as Fodor's editors, promote his tours, and post nonstop day and night for the sole purpose of feeding his ego by putting others down? Today has been one of the best travel talk days in recent memory here, yet posts are disappearing left and right. <BR> <BR>Time to 'fess up! Does Rex work for Fodor's? Do you plan to publicize his tours as part of Fodor's travel? Or is it all just a computer glitch? There must be SOME reason WHY he has been allowed to rule over chaos here for so long, and why you suddenly seemed to be involved in a campaign to delete any "negative" comment about the man. <BR> <BR>Please clue us all in? If we knew the truth, it would help I think. <BR> <BR>

xxx

What posts disappeared today? I didn't notice. I know yesterday posts disappeared that were highlighting the problem of R posting using other people's names or e-mail addresses. But today, what?

s.fowler

Folks. The weekend events has made us a *wee* bit paranoid -- but let's slow down a bit. <BR>1. Rex does NOT work for Fodors. Stop and think about it. We may not agree with every decision they make concerning the forum. But c'mon... use your brain here! <BR>2. There have been times recently when posts have diappeared and reappeared with no rhyme or reason -- most of them non-controversial. There is just a "ghost in the machine." If you insist otherwise I recommend a vicit to alt.kennedy-asssination.conspiracy. Sometimes s*** just happens <BR> <BR>Pleas resume your regularly scheduled posting.

www

Sally, <BR>On your point #1, yes I totally agree, but on your point #2, well, you are mistaken. They have been censoring any off-topic threads. I'm surprised you don't think so also -- I posted last night saying that I thought it was just software problems and then watched threads get deleted post-by-post as I was refreshing them. Yours was one of them. All of them made reference to &lt;blankety-blank&gt;. I'm not saying it's a bad thing -- just kind of strange that it now is being enforced.

Linda

S.Fowler is right, there is a ghost--and that appears to be all it is. Things have been popping out then back in for the last couple of days. I doubt that Fodor's editors are pulling threads asking about help with an itinerary, not a troll, not venomous, perfectly innocent. They surely have more to do with their day than that--like finding the "ghost" and exorcising it! If you can't find a thread right now come back later, it's usually there.

xxx

Agree with www on point #2. Definitely those posts were being deleted. One was deleted right when I was looking at it. The thread reporting about his posting under another person e-mail was singled out for deletion. Re #1 I'm not sure. It would not be that crazy to use him as some sort of website research consultant on condition that he not post as a participant any more. He is good at navigating through websites.

xyz

So maybe both things are happening. Fodors was deleting threads, and maybe because of that odd activity there were accidental slips of some posts.

s.fowler

I do agree that there has been *some* censorship -- on the other hand *this* post is still here! In the case of my "test" post, it disappeared and reappeared several times, so it wasn't a matter of deletion. The server was just burping that night. Also, again, please stop and think. Fodor's is on Eastern US time. They aren't going to have a "purity patrol" on duty at 10pm Central US time.

just

Unless they've hired "blankety-blank" himself to be our new site censor! LOL! Makes sense, he's here 24 hours a day, and what a coincidence that anything other than syncophantic fawning over the guy is promptly deleted, yet far more obnoxious threads remain untouched. <BR> <BR>Seriously though, have you ever seen anyone who openly abused this site the way he does, yet somehow he remains totally unscathed? No matter what kind of stunts he pulls, he goes on the defensive every time and claims victimhood for all the "attacks" against him! Pretty gutsy stance, especially when you've, lets see now, pretended to be the site editor; openly promoted your business; repeatedly swamped a host site with your posts so that all others are subjugated; claimed credit for anything you could yet refused to accept responsibility for your misdeeds; and finally, so alienated the visitor population here that they actually celebarted and toasted your departure! <BR> <BR>Makes you wonder just what kind of "arrangement" the man really does have with this site.

s.fowler

Just -- He has NO connection with this site. Period. One of the "triple posts" is empty -- you know I think the only reason they haven't removed the other two is that -- surprise, surprise -- they don't sit here all day watching usIf you want those removed email them with the specific url for that post. <BR> <BR>Without being specific I can assure you that Fodors is aware of the disruption he has caused. If they ignore that factor at some later date. Well THEN let's burn them in effigy... but until them. Why don't we all get lives

fowler

O.K. s. fowler, love ya babe, but gotta say this. First of all, YOU seem to posting more often on threads regarding blankety-blank than anyone else. Telling everyone to move on while you post continously about it seems hypocritical, doesn't it? Oh, behave! <BR> <BR>Second, you have intrigued us all now...what do you mean that Fodor's is "aware" of the problem with blankety-blank. I have seen no evidence to suggest that this is the case. What do you know? Give us some hints, pleeeease! <BR> <BR>Don't be mad, still love ya. <BR> <BR>

China

I love ya too fowler (wink) and I'd be curious to know as well just HOW you know that R isn't involved in any kind of relationship with Fodor's, business or otherwise. The only two who do know are R and Fodor's, and they're both keeping quiet whenever the subject is raised. Or should I say, Fodor's is actively silencing the questions about it by deleting them?

xxx

OH MY GOD! If this isn't proof positive that blankety-blank has friends in high places at Fodor's, then what is? Someone resurrected that old "Political Correctness" thread to point out that obscene comments from the likes of KikeyKikeman remain on this site, but any reference to blankety-blank is deleted. <BR> <BR>Well guess what? The last post on that thread which pointed it out is GONE (because it mentioned blankety-blank) yet the KikeyKikeman "let's cook Jews" obscenity remains still! <BR> <BR>Fodor's, you are behaving rather strangely. <BR>

on the other hand

1. Censorship DOES take place in off hours. One time late at night a nasty post attacking "him" disappeared before my eyes. <BR>2. "He" apparently told s.f. that nothing could be posted under his ID in his absence, and sure enough an innocuous attempt to do so as a "test" was thwarted, and the entire thread was deleted. <BR>3. A thread notifying us that "he" apparently had posted under someone else's name (not with a bad comment, but stealing the person's name nevertheless)was supplemented by other people's reports of similar incidents. The entire thread was deleted. <BR>4. He does know lots about computer research, and it would not be so bad if the company paid him as a research ON CONDITION that he no longer post as a participant and not have access to info re the origins of posts. A win/win maybe. <BR>

s.fowler

Look. The reason it seems as though I am posting more than anyone else on these threads is twofold. <BR> <BR>One: I DON'T post anonymously. [Well except for the "Italian Men....Lovers" thread] I appreciate the kindness of the two posters in not trashing me totally and I'm not losing my afternoon nap over who you are, but please know that I CAN take criticism from forum friends as well as enemies <BR> <BR>Two: the issues interest me. I teach ethics and I deal regularly with young folk who think "free speech" means no responsibility. I'm particularly interested in these issues as the new demoncracies in eastern europe find their media voices after many years under real censorship. <BR> <BR>Let me restate this for what I HOPE is the last time. Fodor's isn't watching night and day. I don't KNOW that for a fact -- but we are certainly a small portion of what Fodors does on a daily basis. That's not rocket science. They may want to find ways to exploit what we have created on their server, but they depend on us to alert them to a bad thread. Email them and ask for a thread to be removed if it is bothering you. I and others have done so in the past. <BR> <BR>As to Fodors: I posted [passionately as you may be sure I actually CARE about our certified loonybin here.]The answer I got back, while very noncommittal, indicated to me that they are well aware of the issues. I hope folks can refrain from analyzing that sentence to death. It means what I said. Period.

xx

I was away for a long weekend and seem to have missed whatever happened last weekend. Am I correct that R** posted as the editors? If so how did you find out? And what did he post?

on that other hand again

S.Fowler, I hope I didn't come across as attacking you even a little, not that you'd care since you don't know me anyway. I just saw the pattern of factual evidence a little differently, perhaps because a thread that "he" certainly would want deleted was deleted before my eyes a few weeks ago (a day or two after you and he clashed on this site). That was the night I finally stopped feeling sorry for him, by the way. There may be some way the company can automatically delete a thread if a certain word is posted at a certain frequency during a aceertain time period. There could be stranger things.... I'm getting off the internet now, so you'll be happy to know I won't keep replying if you disagree. P.S. Your posts are fine and sane, though lately rather frequent on this sickish topic that seduces too many of us

Bob Brown

I am beginning to think that some of you regard Travel Talk as an entitlement rather than a privilege. Judging from some of the abuse that gets onto the board, some of us act like we own the place, which we don't. <BR> <BR> Fodors has the power to exercise the ultimate weapon with regards to censorship: Shut the whole bloody thing down. It is not "our" board and we have absolutely no rights of ownership, unless some of you hold capital stock in the company. <BR> <BR>First amendment rights do not dictate that a company must support a forum of any type where people can exercise their views. If you want to do that, you have ample opportunities to pay for your own bulletin board or forum. <BR> <BR>Let's face it. If some of you were the CEO of a company that provided a Travel Talk type of service, and the participants were making the supporting company look bad or causing an irritant -- in short the board was doing more harm than good in the CEO's judgement -- the decision could be swiftly reached. Pull the plug. <BR>And I put imitating the editors under that heading. A few more of those kinds of antics, and I am willing to bet anyone on here $10.00 that we will wake up one morning to find Travel Talk a thing of the past. <BR> <BR>This time, the senior editors pulled the thread. What gets pulled next? It does not require a research professor to figure it out. <BR> <BR>Anybody know what Danny Manning's reaction was on Monday morning? <BR>

xxx

Fodor's is a business, one which depends upon, among other things, customer satisfaction for its continued revenues. It costs a business far more to attract new customers than it does to retain the old ones. Even if you are not purchasing Fodor's products, you help drive their ad revenue by repeatedly visiting their site, so you are a customer. <BR> <BR>Why then, does Fodor's seem oblivious to the alienation and frustration of its longtime customers on its site? If you own a business, do you just shut down your website and nail some "going out of business" signs on your store front because your customers are voicing their concerns? You should be glad that they are loyal enough to even care about your business. Those types are your bread and butter, so instead of shutting them out when they express discontent with your service, as a good business, you should listen and respond. <BR> <BR>So, if you had some guy who stood in the front of your store passing out information about his own "non-profit" ventures, then monopolized your customers and chewed their ears off about things he knew nothing about, do you just stand behind the counter and smile? When your customers try to brush the guy off and he starts following them around, then ranting that everyone is attacking him, do you just ignore it? How about when that customer finally walks out of your store, never to return, because he/she doesn't want to run that gauntlet every time they come in for something? How has that improved your business?

Wake up!

Above poster writes: <BR> <BR>"Even if you are not purchasing Fodor's products, you help drive their ad revenue by repeatedly visiting their site, so you are a customer." <BR> <BR>PLEEASE! In caseyou haven't noticed, the recent DECMIMATION of the dot.com industry proved that ad revenues alone does not a website make!! <BR> <BR>To be sure, this site is a public service and an advertisement for their books. You are not a customer -- you are a parasite sucking the free stuff out of cyberspace! <BR> <BR>Time for a little reality check on what defines a customer. <BR>And yes, fodor's can do whatever they want here -- we're playing on thier dime!!!!