michaelpianko

I have not bought plane tickets yet. Have any of you bought tickets from Lufthansa? That looks like the cheapest airline. Or I could just take American for just under $1,500 US dollars. If I pick the option on Lufthansa’s website that is a flight to Frankfurt and train to Munich, does that mean Lufthansa gives me a train ticket, or do I need to buy that separately? In previous travel outside the USA, I only ever took flights from American or Delta. It looks like Lufthansa’s prices vary wildly depending on the day of the week and date; certain Sundays would be cheapest but leaving on a Sunday means wasting the day before; I prefer to travel starting on a Saturday, returning on a Saturday or Sunday because work is closed weekends and Labor Day (first Monday in September). But I went to the Netherlands leaving and arriving on Tuesdays because of the price compared to Saturdays.

I have never rented a car in Europe. Would doing so be simple enough or would it be safer to just stick with places I can easily enough get to with buses and trains? I have no clue whether my supposed transportation between after I leave Munich and when I arrive in Berlin, is viable, yet.

Have any of you been to Neuschwanstein castle? Was it worth it? Or does it just make my trip too complicated because it is out of the way?

Sunday: Supposed transportation: ticket from Detroit to Munich, from Lufthansa, the option that is a flight to Frankfurt and train from Frankfurt to Munich. 1st night on the plane

Monday: Arrive at hotel approximately mid to late afternoon? If time, Victualienmarkt? And/or find a grocery store? If time, Hofgarten or possibly a portion of Englischer Garten (advice on page 88 of Rick Steves’ Germany). 1st night in Munich, 2nd night total of trip

Tuesday: ?Radius Tours: Munich Old Town Walking Tour, can buy advance tickets, starts at Radius Tours office. Alte Pinakothek (open until 8); if time, other nearby museum (Staatliches Museum Ägyptischer Kunst (until 6); Glyptothek (Greek and Roman statues open till 5); Staatliche Antikensammlungen (Greek and Roman objects, until 5 or Wednesday until 8); possibly Städtische Galerie im Lenbachhaus (paintings from about 1880-1920, 10-6 or until 8 Thursday and Friday). 2nd night in Munich, 3rd night total

Wednesday: Dachau concentration camp site (9-5; possibly audio guide or English guided tour at 11 or 1pm). 3rd night in Munich, 4th night total

Thursday: Residenz (royal palace, 9-6); if time, Bayerisches Nationalmuseum (Bavarian National Museum, open until 8pm). 4th night in Munich, 5th night

Friday: Pick up rental car. Drive to Zugspitze (9,718 feet, hight point in Germany). Cable car to the top, cable car back down. Drive to Füssen. If time, various trails and/or old town area (High Castle 1-4). 1st night in Fussen, 6th night total.

Saturday: Schloss Hohenschwangau (9-4), Schloss Neuschwanstein (until 6), (need advance tickets); if time, Marienbrücke (Mary’s Bridge), old town. 2nd night in Füssen, 7th night total.

Sunday: Drive to Rothenberg ob der Tauber. If time, various landmarks and/or guided tour from Tourist information office starts at 2pm. Or Alt-Rothenberg Handwerkerhaus? (11-15?) 1st night in Rothenberg ob der Tauber. 8th night total.

Monday: Various landmarks, Rothenberg museum (9:30-5:30), Mittelalterliches Kriminalmuseum? (10-6). Drive to Nürnberg/Nuremberg. Drop off Rental car. Train to Berlin. 1st night in Berlin, 9th night total

Tuesday: Berlin. Possibly guided tour, Jewish museum, Holocaust memorial sculpture, various monuments. 2st night in Berlin, 10th night total

Wednesday: Museum island area, all 5 open 10-6pm: if open, Pergamon Museum; Alte Nationalgalerie (German paintings), Neues Museum, Bode Museum (old coins). 3nd night in Berlin, 11th night total

Thursday: Above museums not seen; New Synagogue, if time Berliner Dom. 4rd night in Berlin, 12th night total

Friday: Gemäldegalerie (old master paintings, 10-6). If time, Kunstgewerbemuseum (decorative objects, 10-6). 6th night in Berlin, 13th night total

Saturday: Reichstag? (Parliament building, advance reservation required).

Sunday: Charlottenburg Palace? (10-5:30); Schaet-Gerstenberg Collection (surrealist art, 11-6)? OR Palaces In Potsdam?

Monday: Flights back to Detroit

J62

Generally it looks like a pretty good plan to me….

i would rent a car from Munich just for the few days in the Alps. Before and after that just use trains.

see if you can fly directly to Munich. It is also a major Lufthansa hub with many non-stop flights to the US. The added 4+ hours to get from FRA to Munich would be a drag.

Beware that the Zugspitze can be socked in with clouds with zero visibility. Even on a nice day, Personally i dont think the trip to the top either by cable car or cog railway is worth the time. It is likely to be freezing on top so the time spent up there will be minimal. More enjoyable to me is take a cable car up one of the other mountains right near Garmish Partenkirchen, enjoy a short, medium, or long hike and enjoy the views.

neckervd

As you plan to visit only Munich and wider surroundings (the latter by rental car) and Berlin, you may also check the fares of multi leg flights DTW - MUC - BER - DTW,

michaelpianko

I rewrote my itinerary. Does this seem any better?

Friday: Flights from Detroit to Frankfurt am Main on American Airline. 1st night.
Saturday: Arrive in Frankfurt am Main at 7:20am. Find a grocery store or market. Drop stuff off at hotel. The rest of the day in Frankfurt. Various monuments, possibly Städel Museum (art museum, paintings, 10-6), Jewish museum 10-5), Museum Judengase (10-6); various landmarks. Sleep in Frankfurt am Main. 2nd night total.
Sunday: Pick up rental car. Follow Romantische Straße/ Romantic Road. Drive to Rothenberg ob der Taube. If time, night watchman tour at 8pm. 1st night in Rothenberg ob der Taube, 3rd night total.
Monday: Various museums and landmarks. 2nd night in Rothenberg ob der Tauber, 4th night total.
Tuesday: Drive to Füssen. If time, carious streets and scenery. 1st night here, 5th night total.
Wednesday: Schloss Hohenschwangau (9-4), Schloss Neuschwanstein (until 6), (need advance tickets); if time, Marienbrücke (Mary’s Bridge), old town. 2nd night in Füssen, 6th night total.
Thursday: Drive to Munich. Return the rental car. Radius Tours: Munich Old Town Walking Tour??, can buy advance tickets, starts at Radius Tours office. Alte Pinakothek (open until 8); if time, other nearby museum (Staatliches Museum Ägyptischer Kunst (until 6); Glyptothek (Greek and Roman statues open till 5); Staatliche Antikensammlungen (Greek and Roman objects, until 5 or Wednesday until 8); possibly Städtische Galerie im Lenbachhaus (paintings from about 1880-1920, 10-6 or until 8 Thursday and Friday). 1st night in Munich, 7th night total
Friday: Dachau concentration camp site (open 9-5; can get audio guide or English guided tour at 11 or 1pm). If time other museums. 2nd night in Munich, 8th night total
Saturday: Residenz (royal palace, 9-6); if time, Bayerisches Nationalmuseum (Bavarian National Museum, open until 8pm). 3rd night in Munich, 9th night total
Sunday: Train to Berlin. Possibly Jewish museum, Holocaust memorial sculpture, various monuments. 1st night in Berlin, 10th night total
Monday: Museum island area, all 5 open 10-6pm: if open, Pergamon Museum; Alte Nationalgalerie (German paintings), Neues Museum, Bode Museum (old coins). 2nd night in Berlin, 11th night total
Tuesday: Above museums not seen; New Synagogue, if time Berliner Dom. 3rd night in Berlin, 12th night total
Wednesday: Gemäldegalerie (old master paintings, 10-6). If time, Kunstgewerbemuseum (decorative objects, 10-6). 4thrd night in Berlin, 13th night total
Thursday: Reichstag? (Parliament building, advance reservation required). 5thth night in Berlin, 13th night total.
Friday: Charlottenburg Palace? (10-5:30); Schaet-Gerstenberg Collection (surrealist art, 11-6)? OR Palaces In Potsdam? 6th night in Berlin, 14th night total.
Saturday: Flight back to Detroit OR add an extra night to Munich or Berlin??

Would it be a shame to skip the Nymphenburg palace in Munich or should I add a night to Munich?? I have the idea that I like museums; Art museums are the first museums I usually plan to see in travel; I know logically that the stuff I remember most from travel was seen outside.

Is 2 nights too much for Rothenberg? Or should I drive to somewhere else and spend a night there instead of a 2nd night in Rothenberg?

neckervd

If you like to visit Frankfurt, do so. But IMO Mainz would be more relaxing after a overnight flight.

Maceairsidth

-Don't know if they fly from your home, but German based Condor Airlines offers good deals and their premium seats are nice.
-We enjoyed Rothenberg so much we're going back; depends if that's your cup of tea though. Do try and walk a portion of the town walls.
-the "original" Night Watchman does get time off, so double check his website to see if he's on for your night or if the understudy is doing the tour.
-the Marienbrücke bridge is a great spot to view/photograph the castle from, try not to miss it! We skipped the castle tour itself.
-if renting a car, just make sure you understand round-abouts; they are all over and North Americans are not always that familiar with them.

J62

Itinerary looks good except using AA. Given a choice I would ALWAYS choose a non-stop DTW to FRA on Delta or Lufthansa vs connecting on AA.

michaelpianko

Revised itinerary. Any comments or potential problems that you can see? Friday: Flights from Detroit to Frankfurt am Main. Night 0 on the plane.

Saturday: Arrive in Frankfurt am Main about 7-9am. Train to Mainz. Find a grocery store or market. Drop stuff off at hotel. Landesmuseum (history, some Dutch paintings, 10-5), Gutenberg Museum (9-5), Mainz Citadel/ Bastion Zitadelle auf dem Jakobsberg, Stadthistorisches Museum Mainz? (10-5), Roman Theatre/ Ausgrabungsstätte Römisches Theater, Alte Synagoge Mainz-Weisenau (may need a taxi). Sleep in Mainz. 1st night

Sunday: Trains to Würzberg. Residenz (Würzburg Residence, palace, 9-6); various monuments, Festung Marienberg (fortress, 9-6)? Sleep in Wurzberg, 2nd night

Monday: Pick up rental car in Würzberg. Drive to Rothenberg. Guided or unguided walking tour (guided tour starts at Rothenburg Tourismus Service at 2pm?); Hans Georg Baumgartner, The Night Watchman tour at 8pm; Mittelalterliches Kriminalmuseum (10-6). 3rd night

Tuesday: Drive to Füssen. If time, Füssen unguided walking tour. Sleep in Füssen. 4th night

Wednesday: Schloss Hohenschwangau (9-4), Schloss Neuschwanstein (until 6), (need advance tickets); if time, Marienbrücke (Mary’s Bridge), old town. 5th night, 2nd night in Füssen

Thursday: Drive to Munich. Return the rental car. Drop stuff off at the hostel. Radius Tours: Munich Old Town Walking Tour?? (can buy advance tickets, starts at Radius Tours office). (Neues Rathaus (New Town Hall, can pay to ride to top of a tower; Rathaus-Glockenspiel operates at 11am, 12 noon, and 5pm; Peterskirche (includes 300-foot climbable tower); Alte Pinakothek (10-8); other nearby museum (Staatliches Museum Ägyptischer Kunst (until 6); Glyptothek (Greek and Roman statues, open till 5); Staatliche Antikensammlungen (Greek and Roman objects, until 5 or Wednesday until 8); possibly Städtische Galerie im Lenbachhaus (paintings from about 1880-1920, 10-6 or until 8 Thursdays). 6th night, 1st night in Munich

Friday: Dachau concentration camp site (9-5; can get audio guide or English guided tour at 11 or 1pm). NS-Dokumentationszentrum München (10-7). 7th night, 2nd night in Munich

Saturday: Residenz (royal palace, 9-6); if time, Bayerisches Nationalmuseum (Bavarian National Museum, open until 8pm). 8th night, 3rd night in Munich

Sunday: Schloss Nymphenburg (9-6). Other stuff and/or above museums not seen yet. 9th night, 4th night in Munich

Monday: Train to Berlin. 10th night, 1st night in Berlin

Tuesday: Museum island area, all 5 open 10-6pm: if open, Pergamon Museum; Alte Nationalgalerie (German paintings), Neues Museum, Bode Museum (old coins). 11th night, 2nd night in Berlin

Wednesday: Gemäldegalerie (old master paintings, 10-6). Kunstgewerbemuseum? (decorative objects, 10-6). 12th night, 3rd night in Berlin

Thursday: Reichstag (Parliament building, advance reservation required). Brandenburger Tor; Denkmal für die ermordeten Juden Europas (outdoors, 24/7); Jüdisches Museum Berlin (10-7); New Synagogue (10-6); various landmarks. 13th night, 4th night in Berlin

10th night, 1st night in Berlin Above museums not seen; New Synagogue, if time

Friday: Charlottenburg Palace? (10-5:30); Schaet-Gerstenberg Collection (surrealist art, 11-6)? OR Palaces in Potsdam? 14th night, 5th night in Berlin.

Saturday: Other museums or monuments not seen yet. 15th night, 6th night in Berlin

Sunday: Flights back to Detroit.

SusanP

Obviously there's a lot you want to see, but that it's a long trip to be so regimented with no down time. It looks as though you'll hardly have time to eat!

michaelpianko

If I leave on the Friday before Labor day, tickets on Lifthansa cost 1,867.50 total. The same itinerary on American on the same dates costs under $1,100. Lufthansa's prices vary a lot depending on which date you pick. Including Labor day in my trip feels like a "free day" because work is closed anyway on Labor day. I am ok with one stop. I have taken trips that had one stop.

J62

in my opinion its way too early to be buying labor day flights to Europe. I would wait until April or May myself ….

michaelpianko

Actually, my work will be closed on July 5th (the Friday after US independence day). In 2023 I took a trip that included Labor day but this year a trip doesn't necessarily have to include Labor day again. Do you see any advantages or disadvantages to traveling in July versus late August-September?

If this matters I am a single man without kids or anybody I have to take care of except for a faint top problem I can think of, what if one of my parents suddenly has some accident of health problem just before I am supposed to leave and then do I still take my trip? But I don't attempt to take care of them and they wouldn't let me if I tried.

Or will July in Germany be significantly more crowded than September? I went to Italy in July 2017 (I forgot to check the climate before I planned my trip), Greece in October 2018, the Netherlands in July 2021, Spain in March 2022, Mexico in August 2023 but I was where the elevation is high and the temperature didn't go above 80.

michaelpianko

Yeah I know I will have to randomly take breaks to sit and eat and so on. Now knowing how big or small the museums are, I don't necessarily know what I will or won't fit in. I imagine I won't fit in everything. If I look at part of the displays in a museum and I realize that the place could occupy me for more time and if I stay there something else will be closed when I leave, I probably will just acquiesce to skipping something.

michaelpianko

Prices seem rather high. Why would prices drop 16 to 12 weeks in advance? What would you consider a "good" total price for me to get from Detroit to Munich or Berlin?

The tickets from American that I saw, are gone or increased a lot. At first glance, Lufthansa seemed to have the best price, until I realized that the price I saw was only the price of the trip there; to get a total round trip price from Lufthansa you have to pick a first flight, then pick a second flight. Turkish airlines may have an almost appealing trip, changing plans in Istanbul. Or maybe i can search for round trip tickets from Boston or New York or somewhere else and then search for separate tickets to that city. Iceland air had trips changing planes in Reykjavic.

michaelpianko

According to my research so far: Condor does not fly to Detroit, but, yes it would actually be possibly to fly on Condor anyway. I could buy a round trip ticket to and from Berlin, from Condor, for approximately under $1,000 US dollars total. On each trip, there would be 2 stops, one of the flights would be on Jet Blue, another flight would be on Lufthansa. I guess right after leaving the airport in Berlin, I could take the train to Munich, after some nights in Munich, rental car to Füssen, then Rothenberg ob der Taube, then Würzburg, then train and/or bus to Berlin, then some nights in Berlin, then flights back to Detroit.

michaelpianko

New edited itinerary. Does this look like it will work?
Is Nymphenburg palace worth seeing or should I go somewhere else? Is Berghausen Castle worth seeing or is it nonsensical because it is out of the way? Its about 70 miles drive from Munich or at least 2 hours 44 min by trains...

I deleted Füssen and the 2 nearby approximately castle-shaped mansions and added in the Würzburg Residenz. Does this seem like a good choice or a mistake? (Yeah I know the answer is highly subjective and there isn't a definite right answer).

I have a mild preference for public transportation but only if it is likely to work out ok. Google maps shows that from Würzburg to Rothenberg ob der Tauber is about 40 miles by car or at least 2hr 15 min by 3 commuter trains. Would the trains work or would I be significantly better off getting a rental car (for this or any other trip below)?

Friday: Flight from Detroit to Munich. Night 0 on the Plane.
Saturday: Drop stuff off at the hotel sometime before noon? Grocery store and/or Victualienmarkt? If time, a museum or various landmarks? 1st night in Munich
Sunday: Guided walking tour? Alte Pinakothek (10-6); if time, Staatliches Museum Ägyptischer Kunst (10-6). 2nd night in Munich
Monday: Dachau concentration camp site (9-5). If time, other museum. 3rd night in Munich
Tuesday: Residenz München / Residenzmuseum (royal palace, 9-6); if time, Bayerisches Nationalmuseum (10-5). 4th night in Munich
Wednesday: Schloss Nymphenburg (10-6); OR Burghausen Castle (70 miles one way) or other museums in Munich? 5th night in Munich
Thursday: Drive or train to Nuremberg. Kaiserburg Nürnberg (castle) or Albrecht-Dürer-Haus (10-5). Guided or unguided walking tour. 6th night, 1st night in Nuremberg
Friday: Jüdisches Museum Franken in Fürth (10-5; Königstraße 89, Fürth, take U-bahn train)?; Albrecht-Dürer-Haus (10-5, -6 Sat & Sun). Possibly Historischer Kunstbunker (Obere Schniedgasse 52, 85 yards from Albrecht-Dürer-Haus, 1-hour tour at 5:30pm, need advance ticket). 7th night, 2nd night in Nuremberg
Saturday: Germanisches Nationalmuseum (10-6). Possibly Kongresshalle (10-6) or Memorium Nuremberg Trials or above site(s). 8th night, 3rd night in Nuremberg
Sunday: Train to Erfurt. Alte Synagoge (10-6), Angermuseum (10-6), Zitadelle Petersberg, Krämerbrücke, various landmarks, and so on. 9th night. Sleep in Erfurt.
Monday: Trains to Würzburg. Würzburg Residenz (palace, 9-6); Festung Marienberg (fortress, 9-6)?, various landmarks. 10th night. Sleep in Würzburg.
Tuesday: Trains to Rothenberg ob der Tauber. Various landmarks, Rothenberg museum (9:30-5:30), and/or Mittelalterliches Kriminalmuseum (10-6)? Hans Georg Baumgartner, The Night Watchman tour, 8pm. 11th night, 1st night in Rothenberg ob der Tauber
Wednesday: Rothenberg ob der Tauber. Reichsstadtmuseum, Judengasse, town walls, various landmarks. 12th night, 2nd night in Rothenberg ob der Tauber
Thursday: Trains to Frankfurt am Main. Kleinmarkthalle and/or grocery store. Museum Judengasse (10-5), Historisches Museum Frankfurt (11-6). 13th night, 1st night in Frankfurt am Main.
Friday: Jüdisches Museum Frankfurt (10-5), Städel Museum (old paintings, 10-6); various landmarks. 14th night, 2nd night in Frankfurt am Main.
Saturday: Above museums not seen, various landmarks, OR day trip to Mainz. 15th night, 3rd night in Frankfurt am Main.
Sunday: Flights back to Detroit.

swandav2000

Hallo michaelpianko,

Yes, trains should work fine for your trip. The trip from Würzburg to Rothenburg ob der Tauber takes about 1h10 with 1 change.

1. Use the German rail site at bahn.com to get your schedules and fares.
2. Change the time to the likely time of your departure in Germany. If you check the schedules around dinnertime in the US without adjusting the departure time, it'll be midnight in Germany, and the schedules will be whacky.
3. Make sure you have the right town; the right spelling is RothenbUrg.

Have fun as you plan!

s

michaelpianko

One more thing: Is Nymphenberg palace worth seeing or is it redundant if I see the Munich Residenz? It isn't a medieval castle. It was built starting in 1664.Should I try squeezing in a day trip to Burghausen or Harburg Castles?

Or should I just acquiesce to Marienburg fortress in Würzburg and/or Kaiserburg Nürnberg being enough medieval castles?

michaelpianko

Do you see anything that won't work well below?

Friday: Flight from Detroit to Munich. Night 0 on the Plane.

Saturday: Drop stuff off at the hotel sometime before noon? Grocery store and/or Victualienmarkt. If time, museum or various landmarks. 1st night in Munich

Sunday: Guided walking tour? (Neues Rathaus {New Town Hall, can ride to the top of a tower; Rathaus-Glockenspiel operates at 11am, 12 noon, and 5pm}; Peterskirche {includes 300-foot climbable tower}; Hofgarten...) Alte Pinakothek (10-6); if time, Staatliches Museum Ägyptischer Kunst (10-6). 2nd night in Munich

Monday: Dachau concentration camp site (9-5). If time, other museum. 3rd night in Munich

Tuesday: Residenz München / Residenzmuseum (royal palace, 9-6); if time, Bayerisches Nationalmuseum (10-5). 4th night in Munich

Wednesday: Schloss Nymphenburg (10-6); OR Burghausen Castle (70 miles one way) OR Burg Harburg / Harburg Castle, or other museums in Munich? 5th night in Munich

Thursday: Train to Nuremberg, leave from München Hauptbahnhof, abou t1hr, 7 min. Kaiserburg Nürnberg (castle) or Albrecht-Dürer-Haus (10-5). Guided or unguided walking tour. 6th night, 1st night in Nuremberg

Friday: Jüdisches Museum Franken in Fürth (10-5; Königstraße 89, Fürth, take U-bahn train)?; Albrecht-Dürer-Haus (10-5, -6 Sat & Sun). Possibly Historischer Kunstbunker (Obere Schniedgasse 52, 85 yards from Albrecht-Dürer-Haus, 1-hour tour at 5:30pm, need advance ticket). 7th night, 2nd night in Nuremberg

Saturday: Germanisches Nationalmuseum (10-6). Possibly Kongresshalle (10-6) or Memorium Nuremberg Trials or above site(s). 8th night, 3rd night in Nuremberg

Sunday: Trains to Rothenburg ob der Tauber. 1 hr, 46 min. Various landmarks, Rothenburg museum (9:30-5:30), and/or Mittelalterliches Kriminalmuseum (10-6). Hans Georg Baumgartner, The Night Watchman tour, 8pm. Sleep in Rothenberg ob der Tauber. 9th night

Monday: Town walls, above stuff not seen yet. Trains to Würzburg, 2hr 11min. Check into hotel, various landmarks if time. Sleep in Würzburg. 10th night

Tuesday: Würzburg Residenz (palace, 9-6); Festung Marienberg (fortress, 9-6)?, various landmarks. 11th night. 2nd night in Würzburg

Wednesday: Trains to Erfurt (1hr 49min to 2hr 20min). Alte Synagoge (10-6), Angermuseum (10-6), Zitadelle Petersberg, Krämerbrücke; if time, Erinnerungsort Topf und Söhne - Die Ofenbauer von Auschwitz; various landmarks, and so on. 12th night, Sleep in Erfurt

Thursday: Trains to Frankfurt am Main (2hr 10min). Kleinmarkthalle and/or grocery store. Museum Judengasse (10-5), Historisches Museum Frankfurt (11-6). 13th night, 1st night in Frankfurt am Main

Friday: Jüdisches Museum Frankfurt (10-5), Städel Museum (old paintings, 10-6); various landmarks. 14th night, 2nd night in Frankfurt am Main.

Saturday: Above museums not seen, various landmarks, OR day trip to Mainz. 15th night, 3rd night in Frankfurt am Main.

Sunday: Flights back to Detroit.

J62

No, I don’t see anything that won't work.

What I do see is what looks like an overemphasis on museums and castles/palaces/ houses / residences, at least for my taste.

My own travel style would be to have fewer structured days to simply enjoy being there. That could include a long walk in a park with a picnic, or a bikecride, or lingering at a cafe people watching, or even some afternoon down time so I could enjoy an evening out, or exploring a farmers market with food stalls,, or any number of less hectic, more everyday activities that are fun to do in a foreign place. Less go-go-go and a little more slow-slow-slow is my style, but if that plan works for you by all means go ahead.

i would also suggest you list out for yourself all the museums you plan to see and prioritize them. I would get museum fatigue quickly with your plan. Ditto for castles or palaces or houses or residences. Having a list of priorities makes it easier to decide what you’re willing to drop.