help w/europass vs individual tickets
Mar 10th, 2009, 09:10 PM
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help w/europass vs individual tickets
hi,
our family of 4 will be taking a trip to europe this summer, flying into and out of berlin. we hope to cover berlin, prague, vienna, and budapest (maybe salzburg). looking at individual flights, it seems that it may be possible to fly from budapest-berlin, berlin-vienna, and prague-budapest (for US$100 or less each flight), but the flight times are v limited and sometimes only certain days are available. a eurorail select pass for 3 countries would be $370, 4 courtries for $412 (5 days). we would probably fly the budapest - berlin segment as the train would take ~12 hrs.
looking at www.bahn.de/international/view/en/index.shtml it seems that there are discount fares, ie 19 euros from berlin-prague, which arent available from the regular raileurope site. i wasnt sure who was eligible for the 19 euro fare (doesnt seem to specifiy on the website, just states that the ticket is only good for that specific train) and if there are generally better prices available once we arrive in the specific countries (ie, buying individual tickets at the counter)? $370 is definitely reasonable compared to the price of individual tickets at the raileurope price, but if prices are considerably less at the counter, obviously we would prefer to go that route another option is to rent a car for ~30/day, but i dont know how comfortable we would be driving in foreign countries when we dont speak any of the local languages (or are able to read signs!) i've also posted this at tripadvisor and reposted b/c i didnt add tags the first time, and would love to have more opinions on what would be the best plan. TIA for any help, suggestions!
our family of 4 will be taking a trip to europe this summer, flying into and out of berlin. we hope to cover berlin, prague, vienna, and budapest (maybe salzburg). looking at individual flights, it seems that it may be possible to fly from budapest-berlin, berlin-vienna, and prague-budapest (for US$100 or less each flight), but the flight times are v limited and sometimes only certain days are available. a eurorail select pass for 3 countries would be $370, 4 courtries for $412 (5 days). we would probably fly the budapest - berlin segment as the train would take ~12 hrs.
looking at www.bahn.de/international/view/en/index.shtml it seems that there are discount fares, ie 19 euros from berlin-prague, which arent available from the regular raileurope site. i wasnt sure who was eligible for the 19 euro fare (doesnt seem to specifiy on the website, just states that the ticket is only good for that specific train) and if there are generally better prices available once we arrive in the specific countries (ie, buying individual tickets at the counter)? $370 is definitely reasonable compared to the price of individual tickets at the raileurope price, but if prices are considerably less at the counter, obviously we would prefer to go that route another option is to rent a car for ~30/day, but i dont know how comfortable we would be driving in foreign countries when we dont speak any of the local languages (or are able to read signs!) i've also posted this at tripadvisor and reposted b/c i didnt add tags the first time, and would love to have more opinions on what would be the best plan. TIA for any help, suggestions!
Mar 11th, 2009, 06:53 AM
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Most all will say not to buy any tickets via Raileurope - their prices are usually much more expensive than if you make individual purchases.
Some countries will have some deeply discounted tickets ( like the 19 Euro you found ) you must buy these in advance as they are very limited.
For regular tickets most countries will not offer discounts so you capurchase them while in the individual countries.
you can google for individual country rail websites
example
www.oebb.at
you have the german bahn already-
The german site can assist too for other places usually.
With limited travel as yours- individual point to point tickets can be the cheapest way.
Car rental can be expensive - fuel is not cheap - you need highway use stickers for travel on major roadways - and often very high drop -off fees if you return the auto in a country other than where you originally rented-
In cities the auto is relatively useless with parking expensive -
take the train- less strees too.
Some countries will have some deeply discounted tickets ( like the 19 Euro you found ) you must buy these in advance as they are very limited.
For regular tickets most countries will not offer discounts so you capurchase them while in the individual countries.
you can google for individual country rail websites
example
www.oebb.at
you have the german bahn already-
The german site can assist too for other places usually.
With limited travel as yours- individual point to point tickets can be the cheapest way.
Car rental can be expensive - fuel is not cheap - you need highway use stickers for travel on major roadways - and often very high drop -off fees if you return the auto in a country other than where you originally rented-
In cities the auto is relatively useless with parking expensive -
take the train- less strees too.
Mar 11th, 2009, 07:56 AM
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Hi Clue,
The discount fares that you see on www.bahn.de are the lowest available.
They go quickly.
By them online as early as you can. Some are 90 days out, some are 60 days out.
The discount fares that you see on www.bahn.de are the lowest available.
They go quickly.
By them online as early as you can. Some are 90 days out, some are 60 days out.
Mar 11th, 2009, 08:13 AM
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Don't overlook the Eastern Europe Railpass, good in Austria, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland and Hungary - if doing all those cities by train the pass can be used on any train and simplifies planning and thoughts of pre-purchasing tickets. It does not cover Germany but if you go Berlin to Prague back the German portion is not too much on that route. You may find this option cheaper than the Eurail Select Pass - which would not cover Slovakia if you went say between Budapest and Prague or vice versa. Some fine sights for understanding European trains and railpasses: www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - the latter lets you download their European Planning & Rail Guide for free - a good primer on European trains for novices - rail maps, travel times, samples prices, etc.
Mar 11th, 2009, 06:34 PM
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thanks so much for all the helpful replies, you guys are terrific! good to know that the 19 euro price is valid for all passengers, not just european passengers or older people (just needs to be purchased early! ). i think we will avoid driving, although we were considering the eastern european railpass as palenque had suggested b/c all our countries are covered except for germany, and w/the 19 euro berlin-prague train, we're set! thanks also for the helpful website, will be sure to look at those more carefully. stupid question tho, how can we check to make sure the specific train we are taking is covered under a europass or eastern european pass? i believe some trains are private and not necessarily covered under passes? lastly, we were thinking of maybe forgoing budapest and instead going to salzburg, castles, and munich, and then flying from munich to berlin. i assume this might make it more worthwhile for us to get the europass, if the trains from to germany add substantially to costs? thanks again for all the help, i really appreciate it!
good to know that the 19 euro price is valid for all passengers, not just european passengers or older people (just needs to be purchased early! ). i think we will avoid driving, although we were considering the eastern european railpass as palenque had suggested b/c all our countries are covered except for germany, and w/the 19 euro berlin-prague train, we're set! thanks also for the helpful website, will be sure to look at those more carefully. stupid question tho, how can we check to make sure the specific train we are taking is covered under a europass or eastern european pass? i believe some trains are private and not necessarily covered under passes? lastly, we were thinking of maybe forgoing budapest and instead going to salzburg, castles, and munich, and then flying from munich to berlin. i assume this might make it more worthwhile for us to get the europass, if the trains from to germany add substantially to costs? thanks again for all the help, i really appreciate it!
Mar 11th, 2009, 08:38 PM
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so i think we've decided to go to berlin, prague, munich, neuschwanstein (fussen), salzburg, and vienna (skipping budapest). looking at the german and austrian websites for specials, there seem to be a ton of them this far out:
berlin-prague 19 euro
prague-munich ?
munich-fussen 22.2 euros
fussen-salzburg 29 euros
salzburg-vienna 22.10 euros
and then probably flying from vienna-berlin for $62 and change. i know that by taking advantage of these specials i'll need to lock in specific trains which is not the most convenient, but i wasnt sure if i was reading the austrian website correctly (its not in english and it seems the prices above for cities originating in austria are for the entire trip, not just segments of the trip but i'm not sure?) also, i'm not sure where to find the exact prices from prague - the czech website also isnt in english and i can only find approximate prices? any input would be greatly appreciated! thanks again!
berlin-prague 19 euro
prague-munich ?
munich-fussen 22.2 euros
fussen-salzburg 29 euros
salzburg-vienna 22.10 euros
and then probably flying from vienna-berlin for $62 and change. i know that by taking advantage of these specials i'll need to lock in specific trains which is not the most convenient, but i wasnt sure if i was reading the austrian website correctly (its not in english and it seems the prices above for cities originating in austria are for the entire trip, not just segments of the trip but i'm not sure?) also, i'm not sure where to find the exact prices from prague - the czech website also isnt in english and i can only find approximate prices? any input would be greatly appreciated!
thanks again!
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Mar 12th, 2009, 03:29 AM
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Hi clu,
You can find all of your tickets, including Salzburg/Wien, at
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en?rt=1&
Munich/Prague is about 60E.
Enjoy your visit.
You can find all of your tickets, including Salzburg/Wien, at
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en?rt=1&
Munich/Prague is about 60E.
Enjoy your visit.
Mar 12th, 2009, 01:03 PM
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Look at the Germany-Austria railpass as most of your travel is in these two countries - you can put the calculator away and hop any ole train anytime - if flexibility is desired the pass could make sense. But if want to peg yourself into a certain train you will save money -at the expense of flexibility.
Mar 12th, 2009, 01:20 PM
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Hi Pal,
A 5-day 2cl saver pass for Austria/Germany is about 225E pp.
The prices from Bahn.de total about 150E.
Just how much "flexibility" is the OP buying for 70E pp?
In addition, some of the p-t-p tickets allow travel on any of the trains along the route, and the railpass doesn't cover seat reservations. They will still have to be purchased at the cost of either time or money.
Just being picky
A 5-day 2cl saver pass for Austria/Germany is about 225E pp.
The prices from Bahn.de total about 150E.
Just how much "flexibility" is the OP buying for 70E pp?
In addition, some of the p-t-p tickets allow travel on any of the trains along the route, and the railpass doesn't cover seat reservations. They will still have to be purchased at the cost of either time or money.
Just being picky
Mar 12th, 2009, 01:38 PM
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Prague-Munich is €60.90.
Munich and Fuessen are in Bavaria and Salzburg is a border city. A Bayern-Ticket (Bavaria-Ticket) allows up to five people to travel all day for €28 and includes local transport. It's not good on high-speed trains and it's valid after 09:00 on weekdays (anytime on weekends). See here: http://tinyurl.com/29mh69.
The standard 2nd class fare for Salzburg-Vienna is €44.20. (The €22.10 fare is for people who have a Vorteil Scard.)
Munich and Fuessen are in Bavaria and Salzburg is a border city. A Bayern-Ticket (Bavaria-Ticket) allows up to five people to travel all day for €28 and includes local transport. It's not good on high-speed trains and it's valid after 09:00 on weekdays (anytime on weekends). See here: http://tinyurl.com/29mh69.
The standard 2nd class fare for Salzburg-Vienna is €44.20. (The €22.10 fare is for people who have a Vorteil Scard.)
Mar 13th, 2009, 08:31 AM
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In addition, some of the p-t-p tickets allow travel on any of the trains along the route, and the railpass doesn't cover seat reservations. They will still have to be purchased at the cost of either time or money.>
Ira - None of the trains they will take in Germany or Austria require seat reservations and IME there is no need to make them - esp in first class, which on this pass is very little more per day than second class, making it a great deal. First class will always IME have quite a few empty seats - i always can put my backpack on a seat next to me rather than in 2nd class fending for room in the already crowded overhead luggage rack.
But to say with a pass you will need to pay extra for seats is mis-information IMO - not in these two countries.
Ira - None of the trains they will take in Germany or Austria require seat reservations and IME there is no need to make them - esp in first class, which on this pass is very little more per day than second class, making it a great deal. First class will always IME have quite a few empty seats - i always can put my backpack on a seat next to me rather than in 2nd class fending for room in the already crowded overhead luggage rack.
But to say with a pass you will need to pay extra for seats is mis-information IMO - not in these two countries.
Mar 13th, 2009, 09:45 AM
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Actually Ira the difference is about 50 euros (see TimS) or 10 euros a day - for complete flexibility to go to the station hop any train without formality - no lining up for tickets, etc. And add in a 3% fee for credit card to buy from bahn.de
Actually since this pass in first class only costs $332 p.p. or about 250 euros - then by all means for that little difference in price 100 euros extra or 20 euros a day i would advise doing the first class pass (and yes there is a big difference in classes - esp in seat availability and bigger seats more room for luggage, etc.) i'd say consider the first class pass - and vs first class tickets a real bargain.
even 100 euros is what some folks report spending on a meal so it may not be that much for what you get.
Actually since this pass in first class only costs $332 p.p. or about 250 euros - then by all means for that little difference in price 100 euros extra or 20 euros a day i would advise doing the first class pass (and yes there is a big difference in classes - esp in seat availability and bigger seats more room for luggage, etc.) i'd say consider the first class pass - and vs first class tickets a real bargain.
even 100 euros is what some folks report spending on a meal so it may not be that much for what you get.
Mar 13th, 2009, 01:34 PM
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Hi Pal,
>But to say with a pass you will need to pay extra for seats is mis-information IMO - not in these two countries.<
I agree with you, but that is NOT what I said.
>even 100 euros is what some folks report spending on a meal so it may not be that much for what you get.<
chacun à son goût
>But to say with a pass you will need to pay extra for seats is mis-information IMO - not in these two countries.<
I agree with you, but that is NOT what I said.
>even 100 euros is what some folks report spending on a meal so it may not be that much for what you get.<
chacun à son goût
Mar 13th, 2009, 01:41 PM
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thank you so much ira, TimS, Palenque, and GeoffHamer for all your wonderful, very helpful replies! i think we could do most of the trip for less than the 5 d austria/germany pass so we'll probably go point to point for tickets. and thank you for the suggestion about bavaria tickets, i had just been reading about those tickets and think that might be the way to go, especially since we've decided to make a day trip to fuessen from munich rather than staying there for one night. and thanks also for the correction on the salzburg-vienna cost, it was hard for me to tell on the austrian train website b/c it wasnt in english, but i finally realized i needed a special card to get that special rate - which changed the price for our trip quite a bit
i think we've pretty much finalized our itinerary, and decided on:
5/26-5/28 berlin
5/28 fly to munich
5/28-5/31 munich
5/29 day trip to neuschwanstein (Bayern ticket 28 euros)
5/31 train munich-salzburg (25,50-29 euro regular price)
5/31-6/1 salzburg
6/1 train salzburg-vienna (44,20 euro regular price)
6/1-6/3 vienna
6/3 train vienna-prague (29 euro in advance)
6/3-6/5 prague
6/5 train prague-berlin (19 euro in advance)
6/5-6/6 berlin
how does this itinerary look to you experts? some in our party want to shorten our berlin stay and lengthen our munich stay, but at this pt i think we can modify it so as to spend 2 days in berlin, and 2.5 munich, 1 neuschwanstein, 1 salzburg, 2 vienna, and 2 prague. is that a reasonable amount of times for efficient travelers (we probably wont have time to visit these countries all together again, so we want to hit a reasonable number of cities on this trip)?
also, the most expensive tickets (less now that i've learned about the 28 euro bavaria ticket ) would be to the castles and from salzburg-vienna. we might consider renting a car for one day in munich to do our day trip to neuschwanstein - would you guys recommend this? not necessarily a huge cost savings, however, as the bavaria ticket i think would cover us from munich city to fuessen, and then the bus to/from the castle for 28 euros, vs paying 22,20 euro for each way (which i had been using to calculate the cost previously). a car rental would run ~US$60 + gas/tolls/parking (vs ~US$145 for 4 bavaria tickets) - is it more convenient/fun to drive vs taking the train? the trains seem to run pretty much on the hour and most seem to be regionalbahn and regionalexpress, which i believe is covered by the bavaria ticket, so that would work. from salzburg-vienna, a 1 day car rental one way would run us about US$93 + gas/tolls (vs train tickets of US$230). is it a difficult drive from salzburg-vienna?
thank you again for all your help!
i think we've pretty much finalized our itinerary, and decided on:
5/26-5/28 berlin
5/28 fly to munich
5/28-5/31 munich
5/29 day trip to neuschwanstein (Bayern ticket 28 euros)
5/31 train munich-salzburg (25,50-29 euro regular price)
5/31-6/1 salzburg
6/1 train salzburg-vienna (44,20 euro regular price)
6/1-6/3 vienna
6/3 train vienna-prague (29 euro in advance)
6/3-6/5 prague
6/5 train prague-berlin (19 euro in advance)
6/5-6/6 berlin
how does this itinerary look to you experts?
some in our party want to shorten our berlin stay and lengthen our munich stay, but at this pt i think we can modify it so as to spend 2 days in berlin, and 2.5 munich, 1 neuschwanstein, 1 salzburg, 2 vienna, and 2 prague. is that a reasonable amount of times for efficient travelers (we probably wont have time to visit these countries all together again, so we want to hit a reasonable number of cities on this trip)?also, the most expensive tickets (less now that i've learned about the 28 euro bavaria ticket
) would be to the castles and from salzburg-vienna. we might consider renting a car for one day in munich to do our day trip to neuschwanstein - would you guys recommend this? not necessarily a huge cost savings, however, as the bavaria ticket i think would cover us from munich city to fuessen, and then the bus to/from the castle for 28 euros, vs paying 22,20 euro for each way (which i had been using to calculate the cost previously). a car rental would run ~US$60 + gas/tolls/parking (vs ~US$145 for 4 bavaria tickets) - is it more convenient/fun to drive vs taking the train? the trains seem to run pretty much on the hour and most seem to be regionalbahn and regionalexpress, which i believe is covered by the bavaria ticket, so that would work. from salzburg-vienna, a 1 day car rental one way would run us about US$93 + gas/tolls (vs train tickets of US$230). is it a difficult drive from salzburg-vienna?thank you again for all your help!
Mar 13th, 2009, 02:03 PM
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so sorry to ask so many questions, but i was hoping to lock in some train tickets at was a little confused about the destination names. i sometimes see h.l.n. (subway?), hbf, and holesovice. i assume most of our hotels would be located somewhat centrally in these cities, so which one should i be selecting? thanks again!
Mar 13th, 2009, 03:45 PM
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"hln" is short for "Hlavni Nadrazi", Czech for "main station"; "Hbf" or "Hauptbahnhof" means the same in German. In an English-speaking city, these would probably be called the central station.
Holesovice is a suburb to the north of Praha. Some trains stop there and not at the Hlavni Nadrazi in the city centre. You can get the metro from Holesovice to the city centre.
Holesovice is a suburb to the north of Praha. Some trains stop there and not at the Hlavni Nadrazi in the city centre. You can get the metro from Holesovice to the city centre.
Mar 13th, 2009, 05:28 PM
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thanks so much geoffhamer for your quick reply! another silly question: the prague-berlin train seems to offer almost any berlin stop for 19 euros. we havent booked hotel reservations yet so we dont know where to aim for, but does that mean the 19 euros would include a free subway transfer? thanks again!
another silly question: the prague-berlin train seems to offer almost any berlin stop for 19 euros. we havent booked hotel reservations yet so we dont know where to aim for, but does that mean the 19 euros would include a free subway transfer? thanks again!
Mar 13th, 2009, 07:45 PM
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so i went ahead and bought our prague-berlin train tickets b/c we knew we wanted to go on a late train back to berlin (set time). yay! 2 problems - althou i specified prague hln, the website kept changing it to holesovice on me (i think it's because we need to take the subway to get to the holesovice station, and that apparently isnt covered in the 19 euro price). this isnt a big deal as i think czech subways are reasonably priced so we'll live 2nd issue was which subway station to end at in berlin. it seems that the prague-berlin train includes a free s bahn connection - is that too good to be true (on their website this options seems to be available for only certain special customers)? if it's true, can we take it to any centrally located subway station (as we havent booked hotel reservations yet so i dont know where we'll be?). thanks!
2 problems - althou i specified prague hln, the website kept changing it to holesovice on me (i think it's because we need to take the subway to get to the holesovice station, and that apparently isnt covered in the 19 euro price). this isnt a big deal as i think czech subways are reasonably priced so we'll live 2nd issue was which subway station to end at in berlin. it seems that the prague-berlin train includes a free s bahn connection - is that too good to be true (on their website this options seems to be available for only certain special customers)? if it's true, can we take it to any centrally located subway station (as we havent booked hotel reservations yet so i dont know where we'll be?). thanks!
Mar 14th, 2009, 01:21 AM
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Some trains from Praha to Berlin start from Hlavni Nadrazi and call at Holesovice; others only serve Holesovice. The 19 euro fare only covers the international train - the Praha metro fare is never included in the train fare.
In Berlin, there is a U-Bahn (underground or subway) and an S-Bahn (local trains). If your ticket specifically includes the S-Bahn, then it won't include the U-Bahn. Any guide book to Berlin should explain the transport systems.
In Berlin, there is a U-Bahn (underground or subway) and an S-Bahn (local trains). If your ticket specifically includes the S-Bahn, then it won't include the U-Bahn. Any guide book to Berlin should explain the transport systems.
