Paragkash

Need some help on itinerary for 15 days France and 15 days Germany in May 2011
We have Schengen visa valid till May. Just wanted to use it once again before it expires.
We are 45 years old couple. Love Architecture, culture, natural beauty.
We have been to Europe several times, but have seen only Paris in France.
We have been to Bavaria alps recently, so would like to avoid that.
Have seen rest of Germany 10 years back, but would love to visit afresh again for 15 days.

We don't mind either driving or Eurail journey.

Please help.

Aramis

This request is too broad for any really usable answers, I think. There are lovers of all parts of Germany and France on these boards. You are going to get everyone's favourites as recommendations and that will pretty much cover most of both countries.

You might be better served, at this stage, by buying a guidebook for each, or doing some Web research, and defining some of your own "must sees" and then asking how to plan your itinerary to see them all or for specific recommendations in each city or region.

Paragkash

A rough itinerary..
FRANCE_
Paris- 3 days
Loire Valley- 4 days
Nice ( Riviera)- 4 days
???- 4 days

GERMANY-
KOBLENZ, MAINZ (RHINE)- 3 DAYS
HEIDELBERG - 1 DAY
BLACK FOREST- 2 DAYS
ROTHENBURG, ROMANTIC STRASSE- 2 DAYS
DRESDEN- 2 DAYS
LUBECK- 2 DAYS
BERLIN 4 DAYS

Please Help

Michael

If going to Germany after France and starting in Paris, it might be best to go to the Loire, Burgundy and up to the Alsace on the way to Germany. Go by car, and return the car in Strasbourg. If you need a car in Germany, I believe that you can pick it up in Strasbourg or just take the train to Freiburg and begin your Germany car touring from there.

If I were to choose for myself, I would skip the Loire (but I have been there several times) and concentrate on eastern France (Champagne, Lorraine, Alsace, the northern part of Bugundy, the northern part of the Jura) before starting the German travels.

Michael

Some of it dips too far south for current itinerary purposes, but this collection covers the area I would visit on my way to Germany:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...7624827267374/

Paragkash

Michael, Thanks for the suggestion.
Will it be better to rent a car in specific regions.
e.g. Paris- obviously by public transport.
Paris- Nice by train.
Rent a car for 3-4 days for the area around.
Nice to Tours - by train
@ Tours- rent-a-car- drive towards Strasbourg- ??? Drop the car
How many days and what route?

Enter Germany near Karlsruhe by train- Pick up a car.
Black Forest
Heidelburg
Mainz
Koblenz
Nurenburg
Dresden
Leave the car at Dresden.
Train from Dresden to Hamburg-Lubeck.
(Lonely Planet terms Lubeck as "Must see"- I cant decide, as it is out of the way)
Lubeck- Berlin by Train.
Fly out from Berlin.

This could be a very initial sketchy plan.
Need help to firm up.

Paragkash

@Michael, checked the photos on flicr.
They are just superb. I would love to see all those places.
Thanks.

ggreen

France:
- I think your car/train breakdown is good. (We drove Paris-Nice once and IME it's not worth it! 10 hours one way and all on the autoroute, so you're not even seeing much of the countryside...)
- Do the castles interest you? Then a few days in the Loire Valley will be good, but regardless 4 days is probably too much (more than enough).
- I would have suggested using the extra time in France to go to Normandy and Brittany (e.g., Paris-Normandy/Brittany-Loire-Germany). I love the rugged coastline and the distinct cuisine. But Michael's itinerary makes a lot of sense.

Germany:
- I happen to really like Hamburg and northern Germany (with the caveat that I've never been to Bavaria or much of the east); it has a similar feel to the Netherlands and it's the only part of Germany on the sea (much more seafood in the cuisine). So if you can fit in going to the area, great! Lubeck was cute but I'm not sure why LP makes it a "must-see". IMO, if I were to pick one, I'd visit Bremen over Lubeck, as the town had a livelier feel.
- Maybe an odd suggestion, but we also really liked our day or two in Leipzig. Much of the city is pretty, there's all the music history there, and it was interesting to us as the only place other than Berlin where we got to see the effects/remnants of the GDR.
- Love Berlin! As a (formerly) total francophile with little interest in Germany, I fell in love with the city on my first visit in the late '90s...

Paragkash

ggreen, Thanks for the great suggestions
FRANCE
i LOVE CASTLES. I also would love to see Chateau De Chambord, and some other famous Chateau. I am sure about only 3 things.
I want to re-visit Paris for 3-4 days
Want to visit Nice and the french riviera for the 1st time- 3-4 days
I want to enter Germany via Strasbourg.

I really do not know how to give justice to the rest of the 7-8 days in France.

GERMANY-
Bavaria is very beautiful. But I have been there twice. Once just in 2010 May.
Haven't seen Black forest- would want to explore
Heidelberg, Mainz, Koblenz- Very romantic. I visited thes places 12 years back. Loved them a lot. Would love to re-live those moments there

Leipzig is a good suggestion. No one told me about it. I can cover it on my way to Dresden.
I also would love to visit a few places on Romantic strasse, like Rothenburg.

Should I leave Lubeck or Bremen?
Will I be packing too much?
Considering 4 days in Berlin.

I am really confused.
I am also considering that this may be my last trip to Germany. I have already been there twice and would like to see other places in the world too.

Please help.

Michael

Paragkash,

If in the Bamberg area, might you be able to help?

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...a-haystack.cfm

I wrote, in English, and in German, and never received a reply from the photo studio. A personal request might work.

Thanks.

CarolJean

You can't go wrong with Leipzig. I was there for a day in Dec. and can't wait to go back. Bamberg is also a favorite. Those combined with Dresden and Berlin would make a very good trip (IMHO). Enjoy! CJ

ggreen

Ah, well I love the Loire castles, but am always a little afraid it's a sentimental thing because I first went there as a kid. I will say that, like my taste in Impressionist painters, the particulars have changed over time: where once Chenonceaux was my favorite and Chambord the least, I now enjoy the latter much more (though my fancy for the former hasn't decreased much either!). Such good wine in the area too, not frequently carried here in the US.

Since you've already been to Paris, maybe consider going out to Chateau de Chantilly or Chateau de Vincennes. (Other day trip recommendations would be the cathedrals at Chartres and Reims. Also maybe Giverny, though it's best when things are in bloom - you could substitute by going to see Monet's Waterlilies at l'Orangerie, which I would recommend regardless.) If you haven't been to Versailles in, say, the last 5 years, they've finished a renovation of the Hall of Mirrors... But I digress too early into details, when you're still figuring out the overall plan!

I'm glad I suggested Leipzig! I don't know what to tell you about whether or not to drop Lubeck/Bremen. If you're interested in seeing all different types of areas in Germany, then definitely include at least one of Hamburg, Lubeck, Bremen. I remember the cathedral in Lubeck was starkly beautiful, and lots of marzipan - I think it likely was less than a full day there... The sea towns do have an interesting historical context with their oceanic outlet being fought over and capitalized upon since ancient times. Northerners have always been commercial/merchants, and not always in lock-step with the rest of the country...

Paragkash

Michael, Carol, ggreen,

Thanks a lot for all the inputs. I have some line of thoughts now. Will do some more research.
Any websites on famous driving routes through France and Germany?

Will include Versailles, Chateau de Chantilly or Chateau de Vincennes.
ggreen, I am also equally passionate about the castles. Quite like a child.
I am looking forward to visiting some small picturesque villages on the way.

GERMANY- Will surely include Bamberg. I have been there for a very little time. It was very beautiful. Will include it with Rothenberg. I think I will visit Lubeck or Bremen. Even if it means extending my trip a bit.

Please let the ideas keep pouring in. Will be a great help. Thanks

Michael

The Michelin Green Guide used to offer itineraries of different length in the regional guides. You might want to check out the one for Alsace-Lorraine-Champagne.

ggreen

Paragkash, if you don't mind me asking, do you and your wife enjoy going to bars and/or nightclubs? I ask because I was just reminded on another thread that Hamburg "has some of the best nightlife in Germany". We enjoyed the Reeperbahn area for the bar scene (birthplace of the currywurst(!) if I remember correctly) and going dancing at an 80's-music club. (I would consider you and me to be about the same age. )

Here's the other thread if you're interested. (Note that it's a couple in their 20's who prefer big cities, so my advice to them was different than to you!)
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-amsterdam.cfm

Paragkash

ggreen, we do like to go to pubs or lounges, even night clubs. But we go only when we are in a group of 4 and above. We avoid them, just the 2 of us, for security reasons. If we find the place safe, we do paint the town red. Seville, Spain was one rocking place. Goa and pattaya also were great. But I am not sure about Hamburg.

ggreen

Hmm, well I can only speak from personal experience, but we did not feel unsafe in Hamburg. Since we were staying with a friend, sometimes we were 4 going out, but often it was just my boyfriend and I at a bar. At the risk of overgeneralizing, I'd say Hamburg nightlife felt "friendly". But I understand a sense of personal safety can be such a subjective thing!

klondiketoo

You might see what the price difference for renting is in France vs. Germany; I think it might be cheaper to rent from Strasbourg.

Then you could drive north from Strasbourg along the northern fringes of the Alsation wine route and hit a little of the Pottery route through Haguenau-Soufflenheim-Wissembourg (great restaurants, beautiful canals and churches, rampart remnants) then cut through the backroads, driving through the Southern portion of the German wine route crossing the Rhine to Imperial town of Speyer (celebrating its Salian Jubilee 2011) on your way to Heidelberg.

If you love walking and do go to Heidelberg with a car, be sure to go to Schwetzingen and visit their baroque Palace's gardens. They are amazing an even have a mosque and separate bathhouse, mercury's temple, as well as a live bird sanctuary/fountain along with the usual gazillion statues, fountains and walking paths. When you're tired you can have a café or gelato at the nice restaurant in one of the wings of the cast whose terrace is laid out in the gardens.