Tweeter

Hi,

Below is a draft of our itinerary for May 2007.

Thursday – Arrive in Munich AM
Friday – Pick up car, Dachau Concentration camp, stay in Munich
Saturday – Drive to Bellagio via scenic route through St. Moritz (6 hours?), stay in Bellagio
Sunday – Tour Bellagio/Varenna/Menaggio, stay in Bellagio
Monday – Tour Bellagio/Varenna/Menaggio, drive to Lugano (45 minutes), stay in Lugano
Tuesday – Tour Lugano/Locarno/San Salvatore, drive to Zurich (2 ¼ hours), stay in Zurich
Wednesday – Zurich (possible day trip to Lucerne or stop enroute to Zurich instead)
Thursday – Zurich
Friday – Drive to Munich (3 1/2 hours), drop off car and stay in Munich
Saturday – Fly Home

We would love to fit in a winery tour and tasting into our itinerary (red wines). Any suggestions within an hour and a half from Lugano or Bellagio? We would change our itinerary to accommodate if necessary.

I know people highly suggest staying in Menaggio if you have a car in the Lake Como area, but we really want to stay in Bellagio. Mappy.com has you taking a ferry when arriving/leaving from Bellagio. Is that easy?

Our full day in Bellagio is on a Sunday. Will we run into shops and restaurants being closed?

Any suggestions for hotels less that $300 a night with a terrace or balcony for the locations we are staying in? (I am good for Bellagio).

Thanks!

Dukey

My suggestion is that you wait and pick up the car on Saturday and go out to Dachau on the S-Bahn (Line S-2).

Admittedly you'll have to change to a local "city" bus for the short ride to the actual camp site from the S-Bahn station but it is easy to do.

IMO you do not need a car or the hassles of parking it, etc., while you are in Munich (and its suburbs).

toni_g_b

During our trip to Lugano in August 2005 we stayed at Hotel Lugano Dante, and loved it. http://www.hotel-luganodante.com/
The staff was wonderful, the room stunning (#503) with a slight view of the lake over the roof tops but a charming view of the piazza where you could hear strolling minstrels entertain below and admire the frescoes on adjacent buildings. And the web sites' advertising of "the biggest breakfast you can imagine" is no idle brag. My husband still talks about the hot chocolate you could stand a spoon up in. And the location was central to most everything. Make sure you take time for a boat ride around the lake. Amazing! And the Co-Op department stores with the deli in the basement are great fun if you want to have a picnic lakeside. I guess you've figured out by now that I really like Lugano!!!

Budman

We'll be in the area about the same time, renting our car out of Zurich. I'm hoping it will have a vignette. If you are going to travel thru Switzerland using their highways, make sure you purchase a vignette, which I believe will cost about 40SFr? The fine is hefty I hear.

We were in Switzerland last May and rented our car in Munich, and it didn't have a vignette. Our GPS kept us off the toll highways so we never purchased one.

kopp

Hi Tweeter -

In March we stayed at the Walter Hotel au lac in Lugano. The only thing between us and the lake was the street, which was very pretty at night when the streets rolled up. Breakfast was very nice in this grand room with huge windows overlooking the lake. Rooms were not large, but the bed was very comfortable and the bathroom very clean.

There are lots of Priceline hotels available for Zurich. Have you ever tried bidding for a room? It's really quite easy, and you certainly can't beat the prices for such nice hotels.

Have fun planning!

Budman

Yes, priceline for Zurich hotels. I got the Intercontinental for less than $100, including taxes & fees. It's not downtown, but the trolley was a block away, so simple to use, and takes you right downtown in minutes.

Traffic in Lucerne was like being in a Zoo. I wouldn't drive there en route to Zurich.

Hotels less than $300 a night? Do you want to buy the place or just spend the night?

Tweeter

Thanks for you input so far!

Toni_g_b - Lugano Dante gets rave reviews on Tripadvisor! Did any of the rooms have a balcony?

Kopp - I briefly checked out the Walter Au Lac. Definately looks like a good option.

Budman - I did read you were staying in Menaggio next spring (I believe). I was curious on your itinerary.

We really enjoy starting and ending our days on a balcony/terrace, so we are willing to pay more for it.

I would love any more input on our itinerary and questions. Winery?

Thanks! Tweeter

kleeblatt

Some ideas for the above itinerary:
Sunny weather:
-San Salvatore
-Skip Locarno.
-Stop in Bellinzona and visit the castle.
-Take the Lukmanier pass and the Oberalp pass to get to Urnerland. (Beautiful scenery!) or go over the Gotthard and not through it.
-Stay in Weggis and tour Luzern via the ferry or by car. Visit the Rigi, Mt. Pilatus or Engelberg.
- Skip Zürich.

You are doing a lot in Switzerland and only have three days. If it's raining in central Switzerland, then just do Lucerne and Zürich. If the weather is great, then go to the mountains!

Budman

Yes, the 14th thru the 17th, then heading down for a week in Piedmont.

Still looking for a place in Menaggio without spending an arm & a leg. May have to sacrifice one of the limbs.

Tweeter

Schuler - Thanks, why do you say skip Zurich?

Budman - Good luck on your hotel search. Sounds like a great trip!

Does anyone else have any other suggestions for my questions?

bobthenavigator

Tweeter, I know that route and have done it twice. What a shame you are driving right past the Bavaria castle country and not stop. I would find a way to spend a nite in Reutte or Fussen. Also, why Zurich? I think you really want Luzern and not Zurich---much more to see and do. Forget the wine scene--you are 2 hours too far north---you need to be near Asti. You could divert if you forget Lugano,but it will add 4 hours drive time RT.
Good luck !

TravelsWithStDavid

We just returned from Bellagio. We found almost everything open on Sunday and I would assume the same would hold true throughout the tourist season. A terrific day trip is to take the ferry to Lenno (second stop from Bellagio) and tour the Villa Balbienello. It is a very interesting villa with a great history. It is on a point jutting into the lake so has wonderful views in all directions. You can buy a 10 Euro ferry ticket that lets you get on and off the ferry within a short range of stops which I believe covers Menaggio and Varenna as well as Lenno. Have a great trip.

whitey

Hi Tweeter,
Yesterday we took the car ferry from Mennagio to Varenna, and from Varenna to Mennagio this morning. It is very easy and it was only about 7 francs for the car and 7 or 8 francs for two adults. We drove from Mennagio to Lugano around 10 am - it was pretty rough in spots as the road is narrow and winding- figure at least an hour if you are speedy. We also drove St. Moritz to Mennagio, it was pretty but I have been driving the passes for 10 days now, so the novelty has worn off - give me the highways anytime. I would pick either Bellagio or Lugano and spend a couple days in one place instead of hopping from one to the other. The drive from Munich to Bellagio via the Engadin will wear you out if you try it in one day..better if you could stop along the way. We drove through Zurich, and we were glad to have not spent any time there, you would be better served fitting Weggis in and boating around to Lucerne etc. I hope this helps..
Whitey

kleeblatt

Why skip Zürich? Switzerland is about mountains, green fields, cow bells and nature. Zürich is a city with lots of pavement, buildings, shops; perfect for a rainy day but not symbolic of Switzerland's great beauty.

Why skip Locarno? You won't have time for it and it's not worth just staying there 1/2 hour.

Driving over passes is very tiring because the many curves and elevation differences. You will be worn out after your trip. If you take the St. Moritz route, then don't do my suggested Lukmanier or Gotthard pass route because you'll have seen enough.
Or do the Gotthard pass if there's a traffic jam in front of the Gotthard tunnel.

You're travelling in May. There shouldn't be much traffic UNLESS you are travelling on the Auffahrt weekend (Ascension). That's an extended holiday weekend for many people and you will have traffic jams at the German/Swiss/ Italian border where the autobahn crosses AND at the Gotthard tunnel.

May can offer great weather or snowy passes. It's good planning to find out the driving times as you did but be aware that these times can be influenced by weather or traffic.

toni_g_b

Tweeter,

The picture of the Hotel Lugano Dante that you see on Tripadvisor shows a couple of balconies in front, but I'm not sure if they are just decorative or functional. In my correspondence with the hotel by email, there was no language barrier and they were quick to answer any questions; I'd ask them directly. And I concur with all the reviews that I read on TA; we got lucky when we found this hotel by chance.

And I'll add to the "skip Zurich" sentiment. We flew into Zurich on the way to Lugano and then Italy. Pleasant enough, nice people (if you don't count the waiter who had a hissy fit when we tried to order a pizza to split - the charming Swiss couple sitting next to us were offended by his attitude - so nice), but I think there's much more enjoyable areas to spend extra time. What about dropping down into the Trentino area if wine interests you? Or the Dolomites?

Budman

I agree about Zurich. After having spent 10 days in the small villages in the Grindelwald area and Weggis, Zurich was just another big town. Unless there's something specific you want to see there, I wouldn't spend that much time there. We were there our last night because we were flying out the following morning.

Last May we stayed 2 days in Weggis. One day to take the boat into Lucerne, and the other to take the boat to Vitznau and cog train up Rigi. We stayed here, and I highly recommend it. http://www.gotthard-weggis.ch/GotthardNeu/startE.htm

Tweeter

Your suggestions are GREAT and I sincerely appreciate them all!!

Bobthenavigator, I think you are right. I have 3 different versions of an itinerary and the other 2 included Hohenschwangau and Neuschwanstein castles. Staying in Fussen or Reutte didn’t wow me though. I considered going from Munich to the castles then heading to St. Moritz for the night, but that still seems like a long day.

I am not committed to the St. Moritz route to Bellagio either, so we could do that faster route from Fussen to Bellagio (assuming we stay in Fussen). I do want to take advantage of having a car and doing scenic drives. Schuler’s suggestion of the Lukmanier or Gotthard pass may be a better alternative??

So, staying in Bellagio with a car isn’t going to add hours to our drive from Fussen?

Since everyone is suggesting skipping Zurich, I am seriously taking your thoughts into consideration and staying in/near Lucerne. Since I can’t judge how big Lucerne is except the population is 350,000 or so, will Lucerne provide us with us with a number of café and restaurant options, as well as shopping (that was a good reason for Zurich)?

Schuler and Whitey – How long is a ferry from Weggis to Lucerne? Why not stay in Lucerne itself versus Weggis?

Budman – Thanks for the hotel recommendation in Weggis. It looks like some of the rooms have a balcony. Were they large enough for 2 to sit out on them?

Thanks again! This is so helpful!

Budman

I wouldn't recommend staying in Lucerne -- traffic/parking will be a nightmare. Stay in one of the small villages and take the boat to/from. Can't speak for the balcony. We had a room overlooking the lake.

whitey

Tweeter,
About Lucerne...if you were taking the train, then I would say to stay in Luzern. But with a car, you can stay in nearby Weggis (cute, scenic, very small compared to Luzern) and take the 35 min ferry ride to Luzern and skip the traffic and parking problems trying to get around the city by car. We took the ferry over around 6 PM, but since the ferries don't run all night, we took the train to Kuntnass?sp? and then the bus to Weggis.
Whitey

kleeblatt

Küssnacht am Rigi.

Weggis is not a big town but it's right on the lake and offers some nice restaurants and paths along the lake. You'll also be close to the cable car that takes you up to Rigi Kaltbad. Very nice.

Also, there's the ferry that makes a stops at Weggis too, as mentioned above.

You'll only be there 2 nights and will have PLENTY to do and see.

If you want to go to Lucerne by car, then park in the Parkhaus near the Bahnhof because it is easy to find.