Just home from 8 days in Paris--Pickpockets threat--Rude French people
Jun 13th, 2013, 08:59 PM
#81
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I chat with waiters pretty much anywhere I go. I grew up in NJ outside NYC... So I am not a chatter by nature. I have to force myself (tho I never talk on airplanes.... Can't do it)
Pretty much everywhere the same thing happens. Some people are rude or just do not want to talk (in which case I shut up). Some people chat briefly and we both move on. Sometimes people open up and tell me the most amazing stories.
I have chatted with a woman who walked out of Hungary in 1956 when her children were young. one child became separated and they reunited 8 years later. i have heard amazing stories of life during communism. I was interrogated (nicely) myself by a waitress in Paris (why do you speak French, live in Hungary, where are you from, etc). A young waiter in Bratislava told me about doing a pig killing with his grandmother (a tradition here) when he was a kid.
I love to hear people's stories and I always admire their country.
If you sat there in black without smiling (yet they KNEW you were American).... They might have thought you were just a pair of cranky Americans or some weird cult.
I was talking to a Hungarian last week in a bookstore and he said, "I hope we never lose our national differences. Who wants to live in a world where no one debates, disagrees, etc".
I never quite get this need to fit in. Next time, I might suggest you chat, smile, be yourself, and quickly move on in the cases where it is not reciprocated.
Pretty much everywhere the same thing happens. Some people are rude or just do not want to talk (in which case I shut up). Some people chat briefly and we both move on. Sometimes people open up and tell me the most amazing stories.
I have chatted with a woman who walked out of Hungary in 1956 when her children were young. one child became separated and they reunited 8 years later. i have heard amazing stories of life during communism. I was interrogated (nicely) myself by a waitress in Paris (why do you speak French, live in Hungary, where are you from, etc). A young waiter in Bratislava told me about doing a pig killing with his grandmother (a tradition here) when he was a kid.
I love to hear people's stories and I always admire their country.
If you sat there in black without smiling (yet they KNEW you were American).... They might have thought you were just a pair of cranky Americans or some weird cult.
I was talking to a Hungarian last week in a bookstore and he said, "I hope we never lose our national differences. Who wants to live in a world where no one debates, disagrees, etc".
I never quite get this need to fit in. Next time, I might suggest you chat, smile, be yourself, and quickly move on in the cases where it is not reciprocated.
Jun 14th, 2013, 04:28 AM
#82
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<i><font color=#555555>"Responding to some people on this forum is pretty much a waste of time."</font></i>
Now that's the smartest thing I've read on this entire thread.
<i><font color=#555555>"unless you fit their mold of politeness, you are rude, which includes most of the known world outside of NYC"</font></i>
It's true, NYC is unlike anywhere I've ever been, and I'm a veteran traveler. That's why I can't live anywhere else. NYC can be a tough, challenging town, so if I do experience rude people, I usually chalk it up to someone having a bad day. It's very easy to have a bad here.
<i><font color=#555555>"Being an American and calling the French rude just shows a total lack of respect and knowledge for a foreign culture."</font></i>
It's much more fun to listen to my Parisian friends complain about their own people. The <i>l'attitude</i> of many in Paris is well known in France and throughout the world. It's also well known among the Paris locals.
<i><font color=#555555>"but many times, for whatever reason, the waiters just spoke to us in English quickly"</font></i>
If you upload a photo to your profile, that might explain things.
<i><font color=#555555>"our Texas accents on "Bonjour" is probably pathetic!"</font></i>
Reason #2.
<i><font color=#555555>"I don't waste time responding to these zenophobic, narrow-minded posts any more."</font></i>
Yet, you're here with a post.
<i><font color=#555555>"I've seen thousands upon thousands of clueless Americans in France"</font></i>
I've seen them in NYC, too. And I hear some vote. Good grief, what shall we do with all the clueless people? I know, maybe we could ask Thin to cock and load.
<i><font color=#555555>"Stay away from France."</font></i>
And Italy.
Now that's the smartest thing I've read on this entire thread.
<i><font color=#555555>"unless you fit their mold of politeness, you are rude, which includes most of the known world outside of NYC"</font></i>
It's true, NYC is unlike anywhere I've ever been, and I'm a veteran traveler. That's why I can't live anywhere else. NYC can be a tough, challenging town, so if I do experience rude people, I usually chalk it up to someone having a bad day. It's very easy to have a bad here.
<i><font color=#555555>"Being an American and calling the French rude just shows a total lack of respect and knowledge for a foreign culture."</font></i>
It's much more fun to listen to my Parisian friends complain about their own people. The <i>l'attitude</i> of many in Paris is well known in France and throughout the world. It's also well known among the Paris locals.
<i><font color=#555555>"but many times, for whatever reason, the waiters just spoke to us in English quickly"</font></i>
If you upload a photo to your profile, that might explain things.
<i><font color=#555555>"our Texas accents on "Bonjour" is probably pathetic!"</font></i>
Reason #2.
<i><font color=#555555>"I don't waste time responding to these zenophobic, narrow-minded posts any more."</font></i>
Yet, you're here with a post.
<i><font color=#555555>"I've seen thousands upon thousands of clueless Americans in France"</font></i>
I've seen them in NYC, too. And I hear some vote. Good grief, what shall we do with all the clueless people? I know, maybe we could ask Thin to cock and load.
<i><font color=#555555>"Stay away from France."</font></i>
And Italy.
Jun 14th, 2013, 06:49 AM
#85
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Responding to some people on this forum is pretty much a waste of time. They are set in their ways and unless you fit their mold of politeness, you are rude, which includes most of the known world outside of NYC, but thankfully they do not reflect the city, only their narrow mindset.
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It is always those other people who refuse to change their mind.
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It is always those other people who refuse to change their mind.
Jun 14th, 2013, 07:55 AM
#87
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"We really did try to always say small greetings and thank you's in French as much as possible-- but many times, for whatever reason, the waiters just spoke to us in English quickly. (our Texas accents on "Bonjour" is probably pathetic!) The restaurant prices were very high, but we tried not to express surprise. We tried not to speak loudly or smile too much. We really did try to dress in dark colors and try to fit in with others while traveling because I read about that in the Fodor's travel books"
I got to thinking about this statement and recalled when we took our teenage children to Europe how different Europeans can be from Americans in not smiling as much, etc. BUT I see NO reason not to continue to be smiling American TOURISTS. Not being loud is good no matter WHERE you are--home or abroad. Being polite counts everywhere also. Dressing in dark clothes on a trip helps in the cleanliness category everywhere.
BUT it is true that the French have a bit of the je ne sais quoi (sp.!) and attitude is their middle name--as is "reserve". That is NOT being rude. And you should thank your (expensive, because of your choice of places) waiters for speaking English.
Glad you'll go back.
I got to thinking about this statement and recalled when we took our teenage children to Europe how different Europeans can be from Americans in not smiling as much, etc. BUT I see NO reason not to continue to be smiling American TOURISTS. Not being loud is good no matter WHERE you are--home or abroad. Being polite counts everywhere also. Dressing in dark clothes on a trip helps in the cleanliness category everywhere.
BUT it is true that the French have a bit of the je ne sais quoi (sp.!) and attitude is their middle name--as is "reserve". That is NOT being rude. And you should thank your (expensive, because of your choice of places) waiters for speaking English.
Glad you'll go back.
Jun 14th, 2013, 08:59 AM
#88
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Sorry I have not red this whole thread.
However, if you are fearful because the streets are crowded - you just don;t belong in a city. Crowded streets are way afer than empty ones.
As for having tings stolen from your pockets - yes - you were both making the classic mistake of NOT PAYING ATTENTION. Yuo need to do this at all times - everywhere in the world. Not just a city issue - although since tourists stand out and often look confused they are chosen most often.
As for people being "cold". these people are not your best friends. They are strangers or they are working with you in a professional capacity. They are acting normally. You are expecting them to be uber friendly - and europeans just generally aren't with strangers. I must admit - that I find the overly friendly behavior of people in some places to be creepy - and unwelcome. And I don;t want to stand on line waiting to pay for something while the clerk and customer in front of me chat. THAT is rude - to me and the others behind me. Call your friends and talk on your own time - don;t take up other people's in a business establishment.
That said - there are a few rude people everywhere. Not a reason to ignore one of the world's greatest treasures.
However, if you are fearful because the streets are crowded - you just don;t belong in a city. Crowded streets are way afer than empty ones.
As for having tings stolen from your pockets - yes - you were both making the classic mistake of NOT PAYING ATTENTION. Yuo need to do this at all times - everywhere in the world. Not just a city issue - although since tourists stand out and often look confused they are chosen most often.
As for people being "cold". these people are not your best friends. They are strangers or they are working with you in a professional capacity. They are acting normally. You are expecting them to be uber friendly - and europeans just generally aren't with strangers. I must admit - that I find the overly friendly behavior of people in some places to be creepy - and unwelcome. And I don;t want to stand on line waiting to pay for something while the clerk and customer in front of me chat. THAT is rude - to me and the others behind me. Call your friends and talk on your own time - don;t take up other people's in a business establishment.
That said - there are a few rude people everywhere. Not a reason to ignore one of the world's greatest treasures.
Jun 14th, 2013, 09:18 AM
#89
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The other day one of my Facebook friends complained that “people in the hallway” don’t smile or say hello back. I have no idea what hallway she is talking about but the responses included that people are
completely uncouth, ignorant, mean, selective, and/or LACKING ALL COMMON DECENCY...stupid...don’t have manners anymore...“WTF”...having one of those days or one of those lives...rude, lack of personality and outright strange...wrapped up in their children, partners, Ambien, whatever...more of an east coast thing - take that as a challenge to be extra friendly - it's their problem not mine
Some people can’t handle the fact that not everyone is exactly like them
completely uncouth, ignorant, mean, selective, and/or LACKING ALL COMMON DECENCY...stupid...don’t have manners anymore...“WTF”...having one of those days or one of those lives...rude, lack of personality and outright strange...wrapped up in their children, partners, Ambien, whatever...more of an east coast thing - take that as a challenge to be extra friendly - it's their problem not mine
Some people can’t handle the fact that not everyone is exactly like them
Jun 14th, 2013, 09:49 AM
#91
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I'm laughing about the definitions of "rude".
My husband, a guy who loves to avoid social encounters of any type, thought it was a point of pride NOT to visit the neighbors in the house where we lived for 25 years. We certainly would greet them when we saw them, but since there was a lot of distance between houses, we could go a year without a personal encounter, and he LOVED that.
Now we've moved urban. "Mr. Friendly" has commented that he's upset that people don't say "Hi" in return when he's walking the dog.
I just smile.
My husband, a guy who loves to avoid social encounters of any type, thought it was a point of pride NOT to visit the neighbors in the house where we lived for 25 years. We certainly would greet them when we saw them, but since there was a lot of distance between houses, we could go a year without a personal encounter, and he LOVED that.
Now we've moved urban. "Mr. Friendly" has commented that he's upset that people don't say "Hi" in return when he's walking the dog.
I just smile.
Jun 14th, 2013, 09:53 AM
#92
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What maitaitom said. But include pretty much ANYWHERE I AM! It's just part of my personality. Some of us are typically positive/in a good mood, while others are always looking for the right excuse to be mad/unhappy at the world!!
Maybe it's 'cause people don't talk face to face that much anymore. Everyone is always on their smart phone or notebook! I have a number of very friendly European friends with whom big smiles, big hugs and air kisses are always the norm.
Maybe it's 'cause people don't talk face to face that much anymore. Everyone is always on their smart phone or notebook! I have a number of very friendly European friends with whom big smiles, big hugs and air kisses are always the norm.
Jun 14th, 2013, 10:17 AM
#93
About the "no smiling" French. About 15 years ago Tracy and I were at Château du Clos Lucé (Da Vinci's place in Amboise). After our tour, we went to the gift shop and bought an entry hall rug that we would have to lug for the next week as we traveled throughout France.
As we were paying, I joked around with the woman who sold us the rug saying I was going to make Tracy carry it everywhere. All three of us were laughing, when the woman said something to the effect, "You are much friendlier than most Americans I've met." Maybe some tourists should look at themselves in the mirror before condemning an entire city or culture.
I have always believed that, for the most part, people treat you the way you treat them. I've found that true in Paris, NYC and everywhere else I have traveled. There are exceptions (being robbed would certainly be one of them), and when it comes to being miserable on a trip, I believe most people bring misery on themselves by their own negative attitude.
I believe in "Attitude is Everything!" Maybe that's Polyannish of me, but I have been to Paris 12 times, and each trip has brought nothing but joy.
As we were paying, I joked around with the woman who sold us the rug saying I was going to make Tracy carry it everywhere. All three of us were laughing, when the woman said something to the effect, "You are much friendlier than most Americans I've met." Maybe some tourists should look at themselves in the mirror before condemning an entire city or culture.
I have always believed that, for the most part, people treat you the way you treat them. I've found that true in Paris, NYC and everywhere else I have traveled. There are exceptions (being robbed would certainly be one of them), and when it comes to being miserable on a trip, I believe most people bring misery on themselves by their own negative attitude.
I believe in "Attitude is Everything!" Maybe that's Polyannish of me, but I have been to Paris 12 times, and each trip has brought nothing but joy.
Jun 14th, 2013, 10:56 AM
#94
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I love Paris...and I love France. IF or WHEN I can I WILL LIVE THERE...(I enjoy the coolness...don't want or neet to be your next very best friend ever) but wouldn't most of you travelers to France concede that outside of Paris, the French are different?
Outside of NYC people are different...outside London I'll bet people are a tad different..outside the big town...calmer, have more time...don't have to rush so ofter...?
And yes, that said, I do have a certain lightness in my step when I'm somewhere else. (Except Rome...I have some very unpopular with Fodorites feelings about Rome...) LOL
Outside of NYC people are different...outside London I'll bet people are a tad different..outside the big town...calmer, have more time...don't have to rush so ofter...?
And yes, that said, I do have a certain lightness in my step when I'm somewhere else. (Except Rome...I have some very unpopular with Fodorites feelings about Rome...) LOL
Jun 14th, 2013, 01:26 PM
#96
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When we visit a country we try to read some of the serious literature of that country, learn some history and recent occurances, the art, a little about the food, amd my wife spends a lot of time learning a few words in that language. The first thing I learn in another language is "I am smarter in English," because I know what an idiot I sound like. Often we are told that they are suprised an American knows about their country.
We have made life-long friends in a number of countries, but some how none are French and we have been there 4 or 5 times.
We have made life-long friends in a number of countries, but some how none are French and we have been there 4 or 5 times.
Jun 15th, 2013, 02:42 PM
#98
Our last trip to Paris my husband had mobility issues... and everyone went out of their way to help. But I'm a New Yorker so maybe I'm just in synch with people in a large city.
On the other hand... I once went to Harry's Shoes (New Yorkers will know). I try to be a nice person. But I wonder if I overdo it.... because after awhile the clerk said......
Are you a New Yorker??
On the other hand... I once went to Harry's Shoes (New Yorkers will know). I try to be a nice person. But I wonder if I overdo it.... because after awhile the clerk said......
Are you a New Yorker??
Jun 15th, 2013, 03:02 PM
#99
Remembering how irritating i used to find tourists clogging up the streets when I worked in London, I don't expect Parisiens to be anything but grumpy with me, so when they are nice, it's a bonus!
Jun 15th, 2013, 03:19 PM
#100
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There is a big difference between people being pleasant to those they encounter - and assuming that you will have long chats and become friendly with random people in shops and restaurants.
They have a professional relationship with you - not a personal one - unless you it's your home town and yu see them all the time.
A lot of americans seem to prefer exaggerated faux friendly (hi, I'm your waitperson bambi and it's such a lovely day and how are you all doing today- ick!) versus professional attention - bonjour madam, may we seat you at this table? In europe waiters are professionals make a decent living - are not college kids trying to con you out o bigger tips with their irritating cheerleader personalities,)
They have a professional relationship with you - not a personal one - unless you it's your home town and yu see them all the time.
A lot of americans seem to prefer exaggerated faux friendly (hi, I'm your waitperson bambi and it's such a lovely day and how are you all doing today- ick!) versus professional attention - bonjour madam, may we seat you at this table? In europe waiters are professionals make a decent living - are not college kids trying to con you out o bigger tips with their irritating cheerleader personalities,)
