scraphappylady1

Hi, all. I could really use some help!! (This is a bit lengthy!) I have a basic itinerary for a Mar/April 2020 London trip in the works and wanted to get some input on it now, while there is still time to make changes.

Bkground: Mother/(adult) daughter (24) trip, with emphasis on museums/art, since dd is a graphic designer and Mom enjoys same. Eleven day trip, including departure day (morning is free.) We like to keep busy, but build in rest time where needed. If we need a break, we will take it, rest assured!

For more reference, we visited London two years ago as a family (only three days then), and saw the War Rooms, changing of the Queen's Horse Guards, evensong service at Westminster, Oxo Tower, Big Ben (and yes, we know about the scaffolding), Sherlock Holmes door (tv) outside of Speedy's, Track 9 3/4, and the British Museum (but a re-visit there is in order this time). So can you help critique my schedule and answer a few questions for this new trip? Plus, any meal suggestions also welcome!

Wed, Mar 25 - flight leaves Philly, 20:30

Thur, Mar 26 - land at Heathrow 7:35; customs/luggage/shower and breakfast in arrivals lounge; load up Oyster cards ( we still have 2); tube to Earl's Court ( we love the area - could also be the blue call box outside the station - we love Dr. Who, too); hotel either Premiere Inn London Kensington or Rushmore Hotel (Earl's Court area) for the whole time - feedback on either?; store luggage at hotel; head out to take pix at Piccadilly and Trafalgar Square (per daughter's request); visit Borough Market (for Mom); supper suggestions welcome; early bedtime

Fri, Mar 27 - go to rail station (which would be closest?) and buy 7-day National Rail Travelcard zones 1-2 (to start next day, can we specify start date?); want to use the 241 passes and plan on using lots of public transport, so unlimited uses with the Travelcard seems most sensible; spend rest of day at British Museum, including afternoon tea (we loved it at our last visit.)

Sat, Mar 28 - Westminster Abbey (get there early), including Queen's jubilee galleries if still open, and a verger tour; tour of Globe Theater if time; London Eye at night, if weather cooperates

Sun, Mar 29 - (UK daylight savings time begins/ends; I could never keep it straight but I think we lose an hour) - Tate Britain in am, National Gallery in pm, with Royal Mews if we have time or get tired of art

Mon, Mar 30 - Tower of London in am (get there early), with Beefeater Tour; Tower Bridge in pm; Sky Garden at night, for drinks

Tues, Mar 31 - National History Museum in am, and British Library in pm, with Wallace Collection as an alternate or if we want to see something different

Wed, Apr 1 - take early Eurostar to Paris (note Paris is an hour ahead) - with just a small overnight backpack; planning for hotel near Louvre (right now - Hotel Quai Voltaire or Hotel de la Place du Louvre - feedback?); take Metro to Champs Elysees and walk toward Eiffel Tower, taking pix; visit Louvre around 16:00 (late opening this night) for daughter's bucket list; looking for restaurant recommendations that might be open when museum closes around 21:30

Thur, Apr 2 - visit Paris catacombs; plan on pre-purchasing so-called "fast pass" tix for this, since time in Paris is limited; after tour ends, more wandering for pix and possible loafing in sidewalk cafe for an hour or two; take later train back to London

Fri, Apr 3 - (last day for Travelcard 241); St. Paul's Cathedral in am (does anyone know if the the Whispering Gallery has reopened?); Victoria and Albert in pm

Sat, Apr 4 - Warner Bros. Harry Potter tour, probably late morning; will start looking for tix mid- December onward, as it seems only available about 3 months out; pack; would love to do a theater show this night as well

Sun, Apr 5 - Museum of London in am; Sunday roast (heard Hereford Arms Kensington is good); to airport by 14:00; flight leaves 17:15

A few last questions: At this time, we notice no bank holidays during our planned visit, it's not yet Easter and hopefully there will only be small groups of US Spring Breakers. Can we still expect huge crowds at the major sites? Also, we are bringing good Columbia raincoats, but should we have umbrellas, too? I was under the impression they are not viewed so favorably in London crowds. We would also like to see one or two theater shows, with emphasis on the Globe Theater or the Royal Opera for ballet, but can't plan those out this far yet. Any advice, including relevant ordering websites, would be appreciated. Finally, I would love to see some Picasso (a favorite), but we both aren't sure if the Tate Modern is our style or not. Are more of his paintings located in some of the other art museums?

TIA!!!

thursdaysd

Why no V&A??

laurie_ann

She has V&A one afternoon.

The great thing about many of London museums is they are free. So you can pop in for one hour or just to look at one thing and not feel like you have to spend hours to get your pounds worth. British Museum and V&A and many others also have regular free docent tours on general or special topics which I have always found well done. You can look ahead on museum websites, subscribe to their email newsletters and see what interests you. Also look into special exhibits that might be coming through in that time. There are other smaller art venues with such exhibits like the Royal Academy. Another source is the online magazine Time Out (www.timeout.com)

texasbookworm

Such fun will be had! You are wise to sketch out plans so far in advance; and to not pack days.

Couple "maybe" thoughts--maybe combine Brit Library with Brit Museum as they are fairly close and you've been to the BM (although since I've gone to the BM each of my 7 visits to London, I agree about re-visit). Anyway, BL will take about an hour, leaving you with lots of the day left. Then combine V&A with Nat Hist Mus, as they are so close. This will save some crossing town time.
And you'd maybe still have time to go back to BM later in the week if your day there didn't satisfy.

With just one night in Paris, would you consider an apartment in London? (yeah, would have double-booking one night) Try Ivy for apartments if so. https://www.ivylettings.com/

scraphappylady1

Thursday - Sorry, I didn't abbreviate it! Yep, it's there. We wouldn't miss that one!

Laurie - Thanks for the link! I saw in my research that the National Gallery offers talks and was planning on checking closer to the trip for some of the other museums as well. And we were astonished the first time we came to London, just how many of these wonderful places were indeed free! What an awesome thing! I love the pop-in idea, although I have a feeling I am going to have to drag dd away from some of these places.

janisj

Just a few quick comments for now:

With that long a stay I would not pick a hotel - I'd book a flat (available in all price ranges). Even if you never cooked a meal -- the extra space, having a fridge for drinks/snacks, possibly a washer, etc. But mostly for the SPACE. Over 10 days the walls of a small hotel room would close in pretty quickly. (if you want the services of a hotel there are many 'Aparthotels' with the benefits of bot a flat and a hotel/front desk/often a restarrant and/ro bar on site.

If you decide on keeping to Earl's Court - the nearest full service train station would be Victoria.

>> Can we still expect huge crowds at the major sites? <<

The major sites are crowded year round - in holiday periods full of tourists, outside of holiday periods still full of tourists but also full of school groups.

I definitely would not wait til Dec. to book the WB tour if you need a specific date . . . or even if you don't.

And you really do not have time for a Sunday Lunch before heading out to LHR. (nor the Museum of London IMO)

>> I was under the impression they are not viewed so favorably in London crowds.<<

Of course take (small / foldable) umbrellas -- Some people don't like/use them but 'not viewed favorably' is silly (meant nicely)

Ditto that the V&A should be first on your list . . .

janisj

Oh - we were all posting at the same time -- good re the V&A.

janisj

Now I see you are brand new -- Welcome to Fodors

Unfortunately that means you are on a sort of 'probation' and can't post again until tomorrow -- so take the time to absorb all our comments - and the rest you are going to get tonight and post again tomorrow with new questions/comments.

thursdaysd

One place I love that's not on top ten lists (with art, although maybe not your kind of art) is Leighton House. In fact I like it so much that last year, after being seriously disappointed by the Design Museum I went round the corner to revisit it.

https://www.rbkc.gov.uk/subsites/mus...semuseum1.aspx

tuscanlifeedit

I'm a Leighton House member, but don't suggest it over some other "art" sites. It's a bit out of the way, and pretty much necessary for Leighton and PreRaphealite fans, but I'm not sure it's everyone's cup of tea. It's hugely romantic and evocative and there's often something quite good on. The Wallace Collection is outstanding, as is The Guildhall Gallery. However, if more modern or contemporary art is what you're after, consider the Saatchi Gallery and Tate Modern.

janisj

>>Mon, Mar 30 - Tower of London in am (get there early), with Beefeater Tour; Tower Bridge in pm; Sky Garden at night, for drinks<<

That is very light day. The bridge is right there no need to 'schedule it. The Tower will probably take about 3 hours - maybe a skosh more and that would be including the Bridge.

>>Tues, Mar 31 - National History Museum in am, and British Library in pm, with Wallace Collection as an alternate or if we want to see something differentTues,<<

I actually would skip the Natural History Museum -- talk about CROWDS! It is usually a zoo and the queue to get in often snakes through the entire plaza out front. It will be full of kids/school groups . . . mostly screaming

scraphappylady1

Texas - I like your suggestions of how to re-arrange some of our museum visits. I didn't realize the Nat History and V&A were so close together. As for the Ivy listings, I only saw three around the area that I wanted to be in, and two of those were studios. Also, a bit above what I had hoped to spend budget-wise for the ten days. But I will keep them on the list and keep checking back to see if they add more.

Janis - Thanks for the suggestion of a flat. And the welcome to Fodors! As I mentioned to Texas, I would consider a flat if it could fit my criteria (Kensington/Earl's Court area and about £100/$140 a night.) I'm still a bit leery of this type of rental, after one of our AirBnB choices a few years did not go well, but I will look into some. Any websites you recommend to start? We will head to Victoria to get our rail passes then. As for the WB/HP tour, the website still won't let me book it yet. When I first checked last week, booking was available up thru December, which is what led me to believe it's done three months out, but I'm going to add a weekly reminder to my cell phone now, so I remember to check frequently and don't miss it. As for our final Sunday, I was thinking 10-11:30 visit Museum of London (not the longest visit but we would get a taste), then noon-13:30 Sunday roast (would it really take longer than that if I had a reservation?) and ok, maybe get to the airport by 14:30 (1 hour travel time), which is 2 3/4 hours before our flight leaves. Too much? And you should see how New Yorkers (NYC) tend to glare when an umbrella comes out. I had heard Londoners could react the same, but if that's not the case, we will certainly pack ours! And, of course, I didn't take into account all the kiddies on their school field trips! I'm sure they could show up to any of the attractions at anytime, so I guess we'll just visit around them.

Thursday - I looked up Leighton House. Very interesting! Could be a nice break from all the other art we might see.

Tuscan - I think the romantic looking nature of Leighton House was what appealed to me, but I will run it by dd and see what she thinks. As for modern art, we are still not sure on that, which is why we chose the Tate Britain over the Modern. Not to say we won't make it to the Modern, but we are keeping it in reserve for now.

thursdaysd

janisj

Just a few more quick comments - any reason you only want to look in the Earl's Court area? There are terrific and more central neighborhoods all over London. $125/£100 is pretty low for London (what would you get in NYC for that )

Sunday Lunch isn't generally as early as noon but you could find something. But even if you could, think of the logistics: You'd have to leave your luggage somewhere (I doubt you;d want to drag it to the Museum or to the restaurant. If you stay in a flat -- you most likely won't be able to leave them there*. So you'd have to leave them at a train station where they have Left Luggage facilities. Then after this early Sunday Lunch, you'd have to return to the station to collect the bags then travel out to LHR.

* If you stay at an Aparthotel instead of a one-off flat, they would be able to hold your bags for you.

janisj

Yes -- the Geffrye is closed - supposed to re-open in the Spring but I don't know the date (I don't think they do either )

Check out Eltham Palace.

thursdaysd

Yes, I checked the website. Several things going on, but no opening date.

I would want three hours at LHR unless I was flying up front.

scraphappylady1

Thursday - Awesome! Keep the suggestions coming! We are really learning a lot about some of the more out of the way museums, which is great! While I'm not sure we will get to the Denis Severs House, the website made it sound . . . interesting, to say the least. We are keeping it on our growing list. Thanks for the suggestion! And, yes, we are flying home business class as well. But even if we weren't, do you really think 15 minutes would make a huge difference? Most of the time I am the strict 3-hour ahead person, but I didn't think the 2 3/4 hours I mentioned earlier would make such a difference!

Janis - I can understand your suggestion of basing our lodgings somewhere else, but the last time we were in London as a family, we enjoyed this part of Kensington greatly and became very familiar with it in just those few days. Dd and I would like to repeat the experience this time around. To us, the area has a nice neighborhood feel, it's close to a supermarket and a nice variety of restaurants, and the nearby Earl’s Court has both the Picadilly and the District lines coming in (which makes it a straight shot from the airport and easy access to the major sites). We don't mind that it takes a bit longer to get to the central areas. We see taking the tube and busses as an integral part of our visits to London, since it's not something we can do back home with anywhere near the scope that London presents. Even the restaurant that I wanted to visit for Sunday roast appears to be in walking distance. And do they start serving roast so much later in the city? Each of the times dh (traveling for business) has had this experience - now, granted, this was outside of the city - he has found just the opposite. In one instance, he was glad he had mentioned he was planning on ordering such, when making his reservation, because the restaurant (which started serving at noon) sold out before he arrived at 15:30. They very nicely saved him one, though! It immediately made his list of places to return to!

And while I want to thank you and Texas for suggesting we try to rent a flat, as we continue to plan our trip, I think I am leaning more and more toward a hotel over a flat rental. I took a look at some of the aparthotel listings, as well as those on booking.com, but most in the price range that I was hoping to stay within are studios, which kind of negates any factor of extra space. While a flat might be nice if we had all four of us (family) here, I think dd and I will do fine with something smaller. We aren't looking to cook while here, which would have been my main reason for a flat, and don't plan on being in the room very much. I have already found two hotels in the area in our budget that would suit our needs just fine (see original post - unless enough people come on here with horrible reviews of either,) and we don’t plan on being in the room very much anyway. Plus, at the beginning and end of our trip, both hotels would store our luggage, a valuable factor that can’t be overlooked. But, again, thanks for your help there. Maybe when we come back again as a family, I will go the apartment route then.

janisj

>>And, yes, we are flying home business class as well.<<

If you are flying Business no need for the 3 hours. You get expedited check in/bag drop, an expedited security check, and use of the Lounges.

janisj

Re the Premier Inn -- is it Kensington Earl's Court or Kensington Olympia. They are very near each other but if it s the Kensington Earl's Court -- that would be my choice. It is a modern, purpose-built bldg instead of a conversion so likely has a/c and slightly larger rooms.

But I'd probably choose the Rushmore over either Premier Inn because of more amenities.

(A note re apartments -- bear in mind a studio flat would usually be much larger than a regular hotel room double -- that is why I suggested it -- not for the cooking facilities)

thursdaysd

For more lesser-known places see this thread: My picks from "London Uncovered" The Freemason's Hall in Covent Garden is a good substitute for the Temple at Andaz.

Hampstead is a great destination, for wandering - both the Heath and the streets - a great view of London from Primrose Hill, and several house museums like 2 Willow Road and Fenton House (plus Keats and Freud) and https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/visit/places/kenwood/ but you don't really have time.

In business class you should have enough time at LHR, but it is a long trek to the gates.