layanluvstotravel

Before anyone starts telling me to “research the forums” I’ve done that. I am finding it hard to cut out places from this 3 country itinerary. Our goal is easy/medium hiking, nature, beautiful scenery and good food (and chocolate!). My sister 49, me 50 and my niece 27. We are all active, love nature and are budget conscious but not the hostel budget (think 3 star). Our goal is to see the beautiful Dolomites and Swiss alps but mixed in with the charm of cities. There’s so much to see (and no my sister will not be able to make another trip).

We are looking at the northern part of Italy - so hiking in Dolomites (nothing too serious) and the area of lake cuomo/ bellagio. Then thinking a scenic train into Switzerland to do more hiking and outdoor activities and ending in France (so many options there but perhaps ending in Nice to catch the beach).

Ideally we’d like to spend 12-14 days. I know Italy and France are less expensive so anything to prevent us from burning our pockets would be good.

Suggestions for an itinerary? Oh and we would like to travel by train and not move around too much. I usually prefer 3 night minimum stays, if possible. This would be for early June. We haven’t booked flights (just exploring options).

shelemm

I missed the part about what time of year.

Travel_Nerd

Last paragraph, OP mentions early June.

Melnq8

How about flying into Milan, taking the train to the Lake Como area, spending some time there and then heading into Switzerland? Easily done by train/bus. You can then fly out of Zurich.

From the Como area you can easily reach places like Soglio and the Upper Engadine of Switzerland - St Mortiz, Sils, Samedan, Celerina, Maloja...all beautiful and jam packed with hiking opportunities.

https://www.myswitzerland.com/en-us/...ngadine-lakes/

This can also be done in reverse flying into Zurich.

Not sure how to work in France, but honestly, with only 12-14 days, you'll already be pressed for time with two countries.

I have several detailed trip reports covering this area posted here on Fodor's including details on hikes if you're interested. Just click on my screen name, scroll down to trip reports and go from there. We've also visited the Dolomites, but have done it from Austria, flying into Munich. Getting there from Switzerland is rather complicated, but if neckervd weighs in he'll probably have a solution.

Travel_Nerd

Can you maybe let us know what you have already cut and your absolute "musts?"

If going to the beach and flying home from Nice is a "must," maybe instead fly into it instead?

I realize I am contradicting Mel's helpful advice, who knows much more about Switzerland than I ever will and musr defer to their expertise. But I admit I am having the same conundrum with fitting in all you want to cover.

Melnq8

Getting from Zurich to Nice will take 9.5 hours via train, looks like 1:10 if you fly. Milan to Nice looks like 5.5 hours, 1:05 if you fly.

Are you willing to fly within Europe? Don't underestimate time needed - getting to/from the airport, etc, eats into precious holiday time.

Otherwise, these areas are well spread out, and hard to fit into a 12-14 day itinerary. At least for me, but I'm not one to rush around.

I suggest you all sit down and make a list of your musts, and go from there. More trimming might be necessary.

kja

Another option: Fly to Milan; spend some time in that area. Depending on your interests, you could visit Locarno or Lugano or Como or Stresa....Then take a train from Milan to Lauterbrunnen to see the Bernese Oberland, I think the train from Milan would be about 4 hours total (including one+ changes). IME, Lauterbrunnen would be among the less expensive options in that region. Nearby Berne is a charming city. You could fly out of Zurich or (a bit further), Geneva. That, for me, would fill your time ... but it would mean skipping Nice.

neckervd

"Ideally we’d like to spend 12-14 days"
"we would like to travel by train and not move around too much."
That's the pure conradiction!
You cannot visit South/Tyrol/Trentino, Lake Como/Ticino, Swiss mountains and French RIiviera in 12 days without sitting ion trains most of the time.

Dolomites: chek at with places the cablecars will run already in early June.

Train/bus journey times:
Milan MXP airport - Varenna/Lake Como: 2 1/2 hrs
Varenna - Ortisei/Dolomites: 7 hrs
Ortisei - St. Moritz/Swiss Alps: 7 hrs
St. Moritz - scenic Glacier Express train ride - Zermatt: 8 1/2 hrs
Zermatt - Matterhorn Paradise - Breuil-Cervinia - Chatillon - Turin: 6 hrs
Turin - Nice (Flixbus): 5 hrs

Christina

I think your plan is ok to do Italy, Switzerland and France IF you drop the Nice beach idea. You can easily get to, say, Alsace from Switzerland by train shortly. Maybe it doesn't sound as exotic as the Riviera, but it would be do-able. Obviously you could end up in Paris for a flight home easily, which would be the big city vibe, not nature. But after all the nature stuff in Dolomites and Switzerland, why not end up with taking it easy a few days in a city where you can fly home. Now just strolling around a big city and seeing a few iconic sites, eating well, and relaxing at a cafe is my idea of taking it easy.

I suspect you may not know that Nice doesn't have a good beach anyway, I can't imagine wasting all that time to go there for that. It's got rocks, not sand. Some people call it pebbles, but it's bigger than that, I call it rocks. Or stones, if you will. The sea scenery is beautiful, though.

shelemm

Agree, Nice is not a beach destination, though it is there if you are desperate.

layanluvstotravel

Thanks everyone. We are removing Nice. Progress… slow but still progress. A possibility is to fly into Zurich and out of Milan or vice versa. We are trying to come up with a must see list that’s reasonable but so hard!

Musts-
Lucerne (voted most beautiful city so need to check it out lol)
grindewald first hike
lake Cuomo (stay in Bellagio) I see Lugano is an easy day trip
really wanted to do the scenic train (Bernina express) but seems a long way from bellagio to turino but then I see itineraries going here to Zermatt?
Lauterbrunnen Valley (so pretty but is this a small village? Stay here or grindewald or Interlaken? Or Murreun? We want easy transportation but not so small that we don’t have choices for food.
Zermatt (the Matterhorn)
Can we fit lake Geneva?

kja

Lucerne is lovely. During the summer, it can be overrun by tourists.

Re: Lauterbrunnen. That area was just hit by some storms that caused some serious damage -- see this thread for more information. Lauterbrunnen is a mess Shouldn't be a problem for travel next June, but thought I'd mention it.

As for where to stay there: I prefer Lauterbrunnen to Grindewald and Murren; others feel differently. My favorite in the area is Wengen ... but you said you were traveling on a budget, and Wengen is not cheap. I would NOT stay in Interlaken -- see this thread, and particularly post # 24
4-Day Family Trip in Switzerland - Need Recommendations !

You might be able to fit Lake Geneva in -- it depends on what other choices you make.

neckervd

A few remarks:
If you go from Lucerne to Bellagio, you pass though Lugano (much nicer than Bellagio) anyway.
Bellagio -Tirano (starting point of the Bernina Express) is 2 3/4 hrs by boat and train.
Lauterbrunnen/Muerren/Grindelwald were in no way affected by the tunderstorm of last weekend.
But the railway traffic was seriously affected. The "mess" mentioned by kja was created by foreign tourists at the railway station because trains were delayed or cancelled.
Actually, the train traffic with Lauterbrunnen is normal again..

Some possible itineraries:
ZRH - Chur - Bernina Express - Tirano - Varenna - Bellagio - Como - Locarno -Domodossola - Spiez - Interlaken/Lauterbrunnen etc. - Lucerne - ZRH,
ZRH - Como - Bellagio - Varenna - Tirano - BERNINA Express - St. Moritz - Glacier Express - Andermatt - Lucerne - Interlaken/Lauterbrunnen etc. - ZRH

If you want to go into the high mountains, you must include Zermatt. But there may still be snow in early June. Same remark for places like First, Schilthorn, Maennlichen, etc.

mokka4

Neckervd,
the "mess" in Brienz area was CAUSED by mountain stream flooding, not by tourists, although their anxiety certainly would have worsened the situation.
Brienz hosts are now BEGGING tourists NOT to cancel their visits this summer, as the village greatly depends on tourist income and about 80% of the village escaped damage.
The affected area is expected to be near full service in about 2-3 weeks!

I am staying in a Fewo in late September, and my host has already written to profusely thank me NOT for scaring and cancelling!

mokka4

Neckervd,
the "mess" in Brienz area was CAUSED by mountain stream flooding, not by tourists, although their anxiety certainly would have worsened the situation.
Brienz hosts are now BEGGING tourists NOT to cancel their visits this summer, as the village greatly depends on tourist income.
I am staying in a Fewo in late September, and my host has already written to profusely thank me NOT for scaring and cancelling!

neckervd

Once again: mountains are moving all the time, since ever. Local people are used to these things.
I repeat my previous post:
I just realize that many people in this forum don't understand that the Alps are not a Disneyland, but an area in constant move. Why would Switzerland have spent billions of CHF in the last decades in order to make roads and railway lines safer by creek and mountain river corrections, dams, tunnels, protection galleries, electronic warning systems high in the mountains, at altitudes up to 3500m metres?

Some decades ago - before a lot of very expensive works werer done - the Loetschental, for example, was closed/isolated almost every winter for 1 week or 2 bcause of avalanches.It was inhabited all the year round neverhteless.
Same remark for Val Bedretto.
The old Furka railway between Oberwald and Andermatt was dismantled every automn and rebuilt in late spring. Otherwise the line would have destroyed by avalanches and flushed into the valley for sure.
A few years ago, a serious earth slide stoped just a few metres before the village of Raron (Valais).
The village of Brinzauls (Graubuenden) is slowly sliding down the hill during decades. Actually, big works are done in order to stop this movement, with no guarantee.
Last year, a big earth slide destroyed parts oif the village of Schwanden (Glarus)
One of the biggest rock avalanches took place a few years ago at Bondo (Graubuenden). The village had to be evacuated.
Some 20 years ago, a rock avalanche destroyed a part of the village of Taesch (Zermatt).
Some 30 years ago, the whole city of Brig was under water.
The lakeshore of Locarno is flooded about every third spring.

As to the inundations of this year:
earthslides and inundations in June touched
Cogne, Valnontay, Alagna Valsesia, Lourtier (all isolated and without electricity during several days),
the Zermatt railway lline (the repairs will last months),
Zermatt (accessible only from Italy during several days,
Saas Grund (parts of the village under water),
Sierre/Siders (motorway and industrial zone flooded),
Lostallo: road and motorway Munich - Milan flushed away by the water of a mountain creek
Piano di Peccia: destroyed by a avalanche,
Lavizzara Valley (5 villages), completely isolated because the Maggia river flushed away the only road bridge (and part of the road),
etc. etc.

If you don't like Lake Brienz, you can go to Mallorca
https://www.google.com/search?q=yout...m9-pVer2M,st:0

or to the aera North of Athens airport (Nea makri Beach, etc.)
https://www.google.com/search?q=yout...2epcV4Nec,st:0

kja

FWIW, I don't think of the Alps as a Disneyland and I don't think the Alps are invulnerable -- obviously, they are subject to earth-shaping events!

I do not think it inappropriate to express concern or sympathy for those who are affected by a natural disaster, even if the effects are limited.

I do think it inappropriate to chide people for expressing concern. JMO.

Jean

I guess the Dolomites have been dropped. And Nice. But you've still got some distance between destinations and lots of things on your list for a 12-14 days trip. I suggest you think about how much time you want to spend in each base location and then noodle around on the Swiss rail website to find the length of the train journeys. I think if you drop Lake Como and fly home from Zurich, the logistics would ease. Lake Geneva feels like an outlier if you hoped to spend any time there.

FYI, the Bernina Express doesn't go to Zermatt. It operates between Tirano (not Turin) and Chur and stops in St. Moritz. The Glacier Express operates between Zermatt and St. Moritz and stops in Chur. Getting to the Zurich Airport from Chur is pretty easy... direct trains take about 90 minutes. Getting from Zermatt to Bellagio via the two routes would be an all-day trek... pleasant but long. Bellagio to Malpensa would take about 3 hours by train.

https://tickets.rhb.ch/en/pages/bernina-express

https://www.glacierexpress.ch/en/travel-planning/route/

https://www.sbb.ch/en