ribeirasacra

Speak for yourself. I have note been to a "must see" for many a year. Maybe Madrid 2 years ago. However having to visit the Dutch embassy We needed to stay outside of the city centre. Found a EuroStyle corporate hotel, free roadside parking! and some excellent neghbourhood bars. Did not get to the city that time. Never use public transport either just drove or walked.

PalenQ

Fine and laudable but I think you probably have been to the tourist meccas many times - first-time and perhaps only-time tourist wants to go to Amsterdam, Paris, Florence, Venice and not smaller towns they've never heard of. Natural. And these are the bulk of tourists in such places I'd think.

kerouac

I doubt that we can get rid of the repulsive groups, but I would like to say that individual tourists from China, India, Korea, Brazil etc., are completely delightful. I am often astonished to what extent they have learned to speak French, which is something that one does not particularly expect from a lot of nationalities.

If the group tours would disappear and the various tourists roamed more independently and not all at the same time, I think that we would have far fewer complaints about them.

PalenQ

Have not been to Europe recently but what do Chinese group tourists do to cause such approbation - how do they 'ruin' places as hetismij says, etc. I live in an area dominated by Chinese and all I see is extreme politeness and a joy to see them around. I've seen American tourists who made me ill with their boorishness. Is it just because they travel in big groups with a tour leader leading the way - gotta be more American groups than Chinese?

thursdaysd

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion...badly-behaved/

https://www.whatsonweibo.com/too-lou...nese-tourists/

https://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/...mass-vacation/

PalenQ

OK pretty louitsh. When in Rome...

Sue81

OK, I do believe that boorish behavior comes in all cultures and does not discrimate as to race/country , however it has been hurried along by the mass media and Hollywood culture in the US, and the poor public school system. Sad comment on our culture here in US.

thursdaysd

And Britain (I was born there) has soccer hooligans. However, one problem with the Chinese is that behavior that is considered offensive in the west has been normal in China. Spitting, for instance. Pushing and shoving - I once saw a fight break out over boarding a train. Also, when I traveled in China (for several weeks total, but not since 2004) I saw toddlers wearing pants that were split so that they could go to the bathroom in the street. The Stone Forest, outside Kunming, which in the US would be a National Park, had large characters carved into some of the rocks, colored red (that seemed to be "official" rather than private enterprise like the problem in Egypt). (Carving one's initials at historic sights was not unknown during the days of the "Grand Tour". Byron carved his at Castle Chillon, but at least he did it in the dungeon.)

patriciatbrogan

We are going to Amsterdam this weekend so, with 9 years since we last were there, we shall then be able to comment. But, even then, we weren't madly enthused with the red light district and were pleased that we hadn't got a hotel there and had rather got a good special on an hotel a bit out of town, but near the Museum area and convenient by tram to everywhere, we did enjoy Jordan. Even then we noticed the hen parties ( a bunch of girls, generally from the UK) making a racket and all dressed in fancy dress and certainly not there for any cultural activities, they are a hassle but one just scorns them., and moves on.
Last year we spent Easter weekend in Venice (it was our 3rd visit) and we stayed in a central hotel and we ate at the restaurant over the road, divine tuna, and we absolutely relished the churches and their art - we would shoot through the crowds to get from church to church (of course one has to realise that many people that used to live in Old Towns in Italy particularly - but perhaps I mainly notice Italy because I travel there a lot - have moved to the New Towns because they want the facilities, warmer in winter with double-glazing etc, many features - and who can blame them - see Ragusa Ibla in Sicily, no one lives there, the houses are abandoned.) Only the hotels.
I travel a lot in Europe and I don't madly ever let crowds of tourists bother me - maybe I don't go to the "popular" areas.
I do feel the cruise ships are a curse as their passengers eat and sleep on them and do not put any money into the tourism of the town - just their footfalls.
Also, with neighbours of mine here in London, now letting out their flats as air b'n'b's - this I despise, having strange people treating one's home and garden as a
resort! I believe in paying your money and getting a hotel!

Tulips

Amazing that people visit a red light district to gape at prostitutes. Why go there if you don't want to use the services on offer?
Why would you expect to be enthusiastic about seeing women, often not there by choice, sitting behind windows waiting for customers?

PalenQ

Why is the Red-Light District around for a zillion years when it was a sailor's quarter called one of the top sights for tourists in Amsterdamned? Because it is unique and a unique mind-boggling site. I used to always trekking thru it for that reason - I always found it rather tawdry but non-judgmental - folks can do what they want as long as the gals are not exploited (and if they are the city of Amsterdamned is to blame IMO) - if it's voluntary fine with me - always wondered why there were not men on display for ladies to gawk at and perhaps visit or men for men or women for women - I understand locals are embarrassed by it but take it up with your local officials IMO to just do away with it as one mayor of Amsterdamned I believe wanted to do.

But, no it is an iconic tourist attraction and no doubt will stay in some form or others as it has for hundreds of years.

hetismij2

You screamed blue murder when it was proposed that the RLD be moved Pal.
Of course the women are exploited, just as they are in any situation where they have to prostitute themselves.
Do you visit the RLd in Detroit? Drive by the legal brothels in Nevada? Visit the RLD in Utrecht r Rotterdam or Antwerp? No.

I have no problem with small groups of Chinese, or Chinese as individuals, but masses of Chinese tourists and their inability to adjuct to Western ways are a real problem. In Giethoorn the overwhelm the village and ignore the fact that it is a village not a museum and that the homes and gardens are private. A friend who lived there got sick of finding random Chinese tourists in their garden and in their home!! They found it impossible to lead a normal life there any more, and sold up and moved. They now live somewhere you can only get to by boat. Not ideal when in your 70s but for now it suits them.

Tulips

There was a long article in a Dutch newspaper about this. The unfortunate women who work there feel like monkeys in a zoo, with drunken people humiliating them, taking fotographs (even though signs clearly say this is not allowed). They make maybe 20 euros per 'customer', and there are not many of them these days. The tourists who come to make fun of them are not using their services. Many, perhaps most, of these women are not there by choice.

And no, it was not like that hundreds of years ago, Pal. Perhaps you should visit Amsterdam before you make any more comments about a place that you do not know.

StCirq

"gals" says a lot, dontcha think?

PalenQ

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-a8206511.html

Well the RLD does appear doomed but still enough there to be a tourist attraction - not for long and that won't bother me - gentrification is probably a factor dooming it - buildings now can earn more as boutique hotels and pubs and coffee shops as this is a very desirable area along two canals.

Seems it is doomed and fine with me but you could understand I think why it was a top tourist attraction. And apparently still is but not for long and again fine with me.

janisj

Not having been there in ages, you seem overly obsessed with the RLD (and coffee shops)?

PalenQ

I have friends who visit A'dam every year or more and say both those things are still popular tourist attractions - what's your take on RLD if you've ever trekked thru it?

Cowboy1968

I don't think that Amsterdam's RLD still is a must-see tourist attraction.
But it's very centrally located so I think many tourists exploring the city center will also go there because "it's there".
Just as millions make that short walk from Brussel's Grand Place to Manneken Pis just because it takes no effort.
If the RLD had historically been placed in a less central location, I doubt that many people cared enough to make an effort to get there.

Tulips

Unfortunately it is a top tourist attraction, and the women who work there hate that.
Says a lot about the kind of tourists Amsterdam gets.

For who can read in Dutch (or google translate it)
https://www.trouw.nl/home/sekspark-a...nten~a0c99c53/

ribeirasacra

https://www.theguardian.com/news/201...changed-travel