Clousie

We've decided on a 2 week trip to Portugal in April, and would like some suggestions to help with our planning. First, I've read and re-read many of the postings, and have already gained some great ideas from everyone, but still have some more specific questions.

Day 1 Fly into Lisbon/rent car/drive to Sintra (Stay in Sintra as a base for 3 nights)
Day 2 Tour/walk around towns and sites near Sintra. Possibly drive to Cabo de Roca.
Day 3 Take train to Lisbon for day

Day 4 Drive north. Possible brief visits to Obidos, Alcobaca or Coimbro. Stay 2 nights
in Aveiro or other suggested place.
Day 5 Possible train trip into Porto. Visit port lodges.

Day 6 Drive to Duoro Valley area. (Stay 3 nights) Want to visit quintas, relax, walk, boat
or train trip further east into mountains.
Day 7 As above
Day 8 As above.

Day 9 Drive to Moncao and stay 3 nights.
Day 10 Visit/hike Geres National Park
Day 11 Local walking/relaxing

Day 12 Drive to Ponte Lima Explore area, maybe Braga Stay 2 nights
Day 13 Visit Viana Castelo

Day 14 Drive to Lisbon area. Return car, stay near airport for flight next day.


Our preferences:
Like to stay at least 2 nights in one place. Three nights is better.
Like to explore, hike, wander through small towns, countryside, undeveloped beaches
Like to drink wine while relaxing in scenic spots, including our hotel.
Like smaller inns in small towns or countryside. (Already have some general ideas of places to stay from either Quintas or Casa Rusticas.)

Not too interested in larger cities.

Some questions:
1. We'd take the train from Sintra to Lisbon on weekend. Is weekend (probably Sunday) a good time to visit? Just want to see local sights, not shop or have entertaiment.

2. Possible other place to stay on Nights 4 and 5 other than Aveiro. Do not want to drive into Porto.

3. Days 9-13. Trying to avoid really crazy mountain roads, but do want to visit Geres Park. How is best way to enter? Would consider staying in park at reasonably priced inn, but most seem to be on very tricky roads. Should we stay in Ponte Lima instead of Moncao to visit park? If so, suggestions of other place to stay on Night 12/13.

4. Could we still run into snow at the park in mid-April?

5. Is it too long to drive from Ponte Lima to Lisbon on Day 14. I've read about 4 hours from Porto to Lisbon. Is that accurate?

6. Any other thought/suggestions would be appreciated.

lreynold1

Hi, Clousie,
I think you are planning a great trip, and here are my comments:

Days 1-3 in Sintra are really only two full days, one in Sintra, one in Lisbon. You can get an idea of Lisbon in a day, but I really think 2-3 days are the bare minimum. Going into Lisbon on a Sunday from Cascais will probably mean reduced train service, but I think it's generally good and you can find out the schedule in advance and plan accordingly.

I understand that you don't like to hop around, but I think you've got too much driving for yourselves if you're planning a day trip to Porto, then back to Aveiro for the night, and then onto the Douro Valley for a few days. I'm not sure why you don't want to drive into Porto, but if it's for fear of the craziness of it, I can tell you that once you get off the big highways, Porto is not such a bad place to drive around. And you could put the car in a parking lot and leave it there. I've done this on two different occasions, once staying at the Hotel da Bolsa on the Porto side of the river (parking garage right next door) and once at the Cliphotel (bad choice of name, I know, but it is a modern, basic, clean place) http://cliphotel-gaia-porto.h-rez.co...htm?aid=320020. This latter place is on the Vila Nova da Gaia side of the river and it couldn't have been easier to get there.

So, that's a long way of saying that if it were me, I might drive Lisbon to Porto, stopping at Coimbra for a good long time on Day 4, then spending Day 5 in Porto. From there, on Day 6-8, you've got an easy drive to the Douro Valley. And I think you've made a GREAT choice to spend three nights there.

Days 9-11. I don't think you can visit the Peneda Geres park from Moncao. That's a long drive. If it were me, I'd stay right in Geres (which I have done) -- it's a great base for the park. And I'd stop and visit Guimaraes on the way to Geres from porto. I've stayed at the Hotel Aguas do Geres, http://www.aguasdogeres.com/hotel.php, it's one of those sagging old spa hotels that have seen better days, but the rooms have been renovated and the town is really a nice little place with lots of good restaurants.

Nights 12-13. From Geres, it's an easy drive to either Ponte de Lima or Viana do Castelo. I like both towns a lot. Ponte de Lima is smaller and easier to get around and is quite picturesque. Just depends on your preference, both are nice.

I have had a late afternoon coffee and pastry in Ponte de Lima and driven back to Lisbon that night, so it's certainly do-able. It's under 4 hours, nearly all super highway.

Depending on when your flight leaves, you could spend the last night in Obidos, which is not much more than an hour from the airport. That would avoid going back into Lisbon, since you will go past the airport on your way into town from the north.

Hope this helps, Laurie

Bruno_Ribeiro

Hi Clousie,

as Laurie says, sleeping in Aveiro, going to Porto, get back to Aveiro and then go on to the Douro is not very practical. The two cities are about half an hour by car from each other, but Porto offers more choices to be used as your base. You can look for hotels in nearby cities from Porto (Espinho, Maia, Vila do Conde, Póvoa do Varzim) and use the train (if you prefer a southern city as Espinho) or the metro (if you prefer to go North - the other 3) as they're cheaper and free of hassle.

Is there any particular reason why you want to drive through the Douro? It's not very easy to drive around that area if you're not familliar with it. As you plan to go on a cruise and ride the train, you can do that from Porto as there are several companies that offer river cruises of 2/3 days with shore tours and comeback to Porto by train.

This way you can: do a cruise, ride the train, sleep 2/3 nights on the Douro (overnights are on shore), visit quintas, historical cities and monuments... and you don't need to worry about traffic or getting lost. And, seing as your going to Monção next, you can go there from Porto which is easier.

Cheers and hope you enjoy your trip.

Clousie

Laurie and Bruno: I'll answer your questions/comments together.

I agree with what you both said about Aveiro being impractical. Yes, we are trying to avoid the crazy traffice and/or drivers in Porto. Thought we could take a day train into the city. I see that theClip Hotel seems to be near the Metro. Will also check out Bruno's suggestions. I do want to see the coast at some point though--always see the western side of the Atlantic, so have to see what's east of home--perhaps we can do this after visiting Geres Park.

The reason to drive in the Douro is just to meander around taking in the scenery, walking visiting wineries. Would like to just do a day or afternoon boat trip. Also saw that there are trains that go to the mountain towns. Any comments on those?

Laurie, on another post (I think trip report) you mentioned how much better it is to stay high above the river. I can understand that for the scenery. However, I did look at Qunita dela Rosa, too. The main reason to consider that is because (I think) it's in or near a town. Thought that may be a good choice for evenings.

It does appear that Moncao isn't a good choice to visit the park. Did check out Casa de Avelar near Cabeiro, and it looks quite nice. Not sure if it's open in April though. Are the roads in the park really treacherous?

Our flight home is at 7 am, so think we need to stay near the airport, unfortunately, the last night.

Thanks for your comments. Hope to hear more.

lreynold1

Hi, Clousie,
I agree that having a car and driving around the Douro area is a great idea. That way you'll get to see the river from all elevations. I didn't find it confusing at all, and I think that you will get to see a lot more -- make sure you have a good map. And the train ride east from Pinhao to the end of the line is about an hour of incredible scenery in both directions.

Quinta de la Rosa is a very nice place (we did a short tour there). It's about 1/2 mile or mile outside the town of Pinhao. People who stayed there said there is a great restaurant on the way back to Pinhao from the Quinta, right at the bridge. I have eaten in one or two unremarkable restaurants in Pinhao at different times, but maybe you will find something better. The town of Pinhao does not have much going on at all, neither in the action category nor in the charm category.

When I stayed up near the pousada, at Casa das Canilhas, we were about a 20 minute walk into the little town of Mesao Frio, where there was a really good restaurant, Tasca something or other. We ate there on a couple of occasions. Mesao Frio is a very small town, though, I think that was really the only good restaurant. The town is old and has some very picturesque streets and old stone buildings, but it's overall very quiet.

The cliphotel is about a 20 minute walk to the most beautiful view across the river to Porto. (It's not special in any way, but there is a restaurant nearby that will make a meat eater out of you if you aren't one already). The metro is actually a light rail car that goes across the bridge on the upper level and very quickly gets you to downtown Porto. But it's not terribly well located for visiting the riverfront on either side. I think the Hotel da Bolsa is better located for getting to all parts of Porto, and we had absolutely no trouble driving in (with a viamichelin map printed off the computer) and parking in the garage right in front of the hotel.

I don't know Cabeiro, but I found it on the map. It's near the northern side of the park and I assume you would go in from Lindoso. My own opinion is that the southern (near Geres) and eastern areas (near Pisoes and its ruined monastery) are prettier. For walking, I think Geres is the best location, and the tourist office has maps of several different walks of different lengths. I don't remember any scary twisty narrow roads, not like in the mountains near Lousa.

Laurie

Clousie

Laurie,

Some questions about our Geres part of the trip.

Could you tell me more about the Aquas do Geres Hotel? You mentioned it was "sagging" and wondered exactly what you meant by that. Is Geres actually a town within the park?

Going at a leisurely pace, approx how long would it take to get from Duoro (perhaps Mesao Fri) to Geres? I'm wondering if we should reverse the number of nights we had planned, and stay 2 in Geres and 3 in the Ponte Lima/ Viana Castelo area.

lreynold1

Hi, Clousie,

I think the Aguas do Geres hotel fits in the category of "once grand" hotels. It has been recently renovated and the rooms are completely fine and comfortable. It is charming, and by sagging I meant that it isn't the grand old lady it used to be. I think the pictures here are representative and accurate: http://www.aguasdogeres.com/hotel.php

I don't know if Geres is actually in the park boundaries, but it is very close. We took one day to drive out to the east and walk to the waterfall and monastery (12th century?) in Pitoes das Junias, a nice 5 or 6 km walk (?) from town. I have written up a description of the trip and maybe I haven't posted it because I can't find it through a search on this forum. So I will post it separately, along with a link to some pictures so you can judge for yourself.

I looked at google maps for the trip between Mesao Frio and Geres, and it says about 2 hours. (I find the times to usually be close to what it takes me). The route goes through Amarante, Guimaraes and Braga, three great places to stop -- but of course you could not "do" all three in a day. Of the three I'd rate Guimaraes the highest -- it's a beautiful old city, walls, castle, old squares, old churches, good food (and incredible pousada in an old convent a few kms out of town); Amarante second (pretty smaller city on a river, great cafes and pastries, easy to maneuver) and Braga third (though I love Braga, I have always found driving in it or through it to be complicated and somewhat stressful. In fact, all three times I've been there I've needed help to get out of town, and on two of those occasions, the people I asked insisted that it was just much easier for them to lead me to the highway rather than try to describe it).

The Ponte Lima/Viana area is also one of my favorites, so I'm happy to give more opinions as you narrow down your itinerary. Laurie

Clousie

I've done some revisions, and would again like any/all opinions. Although we'd really like to visit Geres National Park, we've decided that just wondering through small towns will be preferable to get to know Portugal and hopefully, the people better.


Day 1 Fly into Lisbon/rent car/drive to Sintra (Stay in Sintra as a base for 3 nights)
Day 2 Drive/walk around towns and sites near Sintra. Possibly drive to Cabo de Roca.
Day 3 Possibly take train to Lisbon for day. This would be a Sunday.

Day 4 Drive north. Possible brief visits to towns along the way. Stay 2 nights
in Vila Nova Gaia at Clip Hotel.
Day 5 Visit port lodges and walk around Porto

Day 6 Drive to Duoro Valley area. (Stay 3 nights at Mesao Frio, Casa de Canilhas) Want to visit quintas, relax, walk, boat or train trip further east into mountains.
Day 7 As above
Day 8 As above.

Day 9 Drive to Ponte de Lima area
Day 10 Visit towns (perhaps Braga, Viana Castelo)in area as we desire.
Day 11 As above. Especially looking for interesting, small towns, on coast or inland.

Day 12 Drive to town towards Lisbon. Need a town for this night. Stopping at places as desired.
Day 13 Explore area around where we've decided to stay.

Day 14 Drive to Lisbon airport, return car, stay near airport for 7 am flight next day.


In my first post at top, I listed our preferences for this trip if that is helpful to anyone's comments.

Thoughts and suggestions please.

juanabrava

Hi all-

My husband and I are planning 2 weeks in northern Portugal at the end of March and the beginning of April. This thread has been most helpful in making our plans. Thank you.

I have a question for Bruno. You stated that there are 2-3 day cruises on the Douro where you spend overnight on land. In my web search I only found cruises where you sleep on the ship. Do you have the names of any companies? Thanks.

Has anyone been to Braga for Semana Santa? Is it something you would recommend? We have seen a number of processions in Sicily.

Clousie - I hope you have a very enjoyable trip.

lreynold1

Hi, Clousie, I think your itinerary fits your stated preferences perfectly. Some scattered comments:

-- if you go into Lisbon for a day (train from Sintra), you will probably want to focus on the main touristy areas (the Baixa (flat commercial area between main plazas and river) and the two hilly areas on either side -- on one side is the old moorish district, the Alfama plus the castle, and on the other side the hills of Chiado/Bairro Alto). A full day of walking will give you a flavor, I think.

-- possible visits along the way north to Porto -- Obidos, or one of the monasteries (Batalha or Alcobaca), or the coastal area near Nazare if you want to see the ocean.

-- once you're in the north, I'd really recommend adding Guimaraes to your list of stops. It's a very pretty city, has a castle, has an old walled part, has museums, old churches, nice parks, etc.

-- another northern option -- If you want to buy linens, Valenca do Minho is the place to do it. There are about 4 million stores selling cotton items. It is in a very pretty setting, right across the river from the pretty Spanish city of Tui.

-- town for two night stay on way back to Lisbon -- I'd choose Coimbra maybe, but if you're not a city person, how about Condeixa a nova and the pousada there. There are some important Roman Ruins in Coninimbriga, which is right near Condeixa. I'd also check Adrienne's trip report about Tomar and some other places in the central area.

-- Another option for a place on the way back to Lisbon would be Aveiro. It's a pretty, very comfortable town, near some very nice beaches and natural preserves for walking. I think you had mentioned Aveiro in another post and it would fit nicely as a mid-way point.

-- As others have alrady said, you don't need to put yourself right next to the airport for the last night. Even at 5 am, taxis are easy to get and the airport is about 5 miles from the center of town. And at that time of day, of course, there's no traffic. I would also make sure to check and see what time the ticket counters open because it's kind of frustrating to get there and realize the check-in counters aren't even open.

And I've not been to Braga for Semana Santa so I can't comment on that question, sorry. Laurie

lobo_mau

Start your preparation listening to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgekMkn6YKQ

lobo_mau

Other version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2xDh5czl88&NR=1

And other:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1t0_v4VaFs

And the original version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqB8RAPC9QM

I found my April dream in Portugal with you,
When we discovered romance, like I never knew.
My head was in the clouds. My heart went crazy too.
And madly I said, I love you.

Too soon I heard you say,
This dream is for a day.
Thats Portugal and love in April!
And when the showers fell,
Those tears I know too well,
They told me it was Spring fooling me.

I found my April dream in Portugal with you,
When we discovered romance, like I never knew.
Then morning brought the rain, and now my dream is through,
But still my heart says, I love you.

This sad reality, to know it couldnt be, Thats Portugal and love in April. The music and the wine
convinced me you were mine,
but it was just the Spring fooling me.
Foolish me

Then morning brought the rain,
and now my dream is through,
but still my heart says,
I love you.

Clousie

Everything is in place now except our last three nights. Really having problems coming up with places to stay.

Thought we could base ourselves in Batalha, Alcobaca or Tomar for 2 nights and explore surrounding areas from there. Probably would like to be in a town so we could stroll around at night (not looking for exciting nightlife--just soaking in the atmosphere) My options, however, seem to be either non-descript modern hotels or rather run-down sounding places.

Would also consider Aveiro, as we do want to visit the town, but again, not coming up with good selections. Hopefully, looking to book something around 80 euros a night.

Also, could anyone offer suggestions for one night in Lisbon? Have an early flight out the next day, but as was suggested, it's not bad getting to the airport early in the morning. What is the approximate cost of a cab. If we stayed at the airport, we could even cab in and out of the city for the evening.

Thanks so much for all your help/suggestions already.

lreynold1

Hi, again,
Just a quick post, not much time right now, but thought I'd suggest a couple of websites -- wonderfulland.com has an interactive map and lists some really nice places. I've stayed at three or four of them.

Also try: http://www.estalagensdeportugal.com/

and: http://www.solaresdeportugal.pt/EN/

Good luck with the planning, it's all really coming together!

amer_can

Take a look at Pousadas.pt. There is an offer for car and pousadas at a very good rate..Under 55 and over 55.called passport.. we've had very good luck with these on both of our Portugal trips.Avoid Lisbon with the car CRAZY!!! Hop On Hop Off will do just fine..Pinheao is a pretty little place and Tomar is also. Worth a look is the natural area south of Setubal along the sea. No development allowed, unusual for a sea coast and much beauty to be appreciated..Gingha is another must..Try it..Wish youhad room for me!!!

Clousie

Thanks for the suggestions, especially wonderfulland.com Wish I'd had that site sooner as many of their properties look nice and in our price range.

Is anyone familiar with Quinta da Alcaidaria-Mór?

Still looking/deciding what to do about Lisbon. There's NO WAY we plan to drive in Lisbon. Just hoping it won't be too crazy picking up a car at the airport. The Hop On Hop Off bus sounds good.