Ozziez

We are a family of five from Australia (Mum, Dad, 17 year old daughter, 12 year old daughter, and 10 year old son). We will be in Europe for December 2008 and England for the first two weeks of January 2009. I have drafted an itinerary for the first week of our holiday. I would be most grateful if you would critique it for me. I have tried to schedule things so that we are there when sights are open, and have also tried to concentrate on the main sights and mix heavy sightseeing with wandering around to keep everyone interested. I haven’t included any art galleries because we are planning to go to quite a few in Italy, but please tell me if I have missed anything – anything at all – that should be included.

Tuesday 2nd December and Wednesday 3rd December, 2008 – fly from Australia to Munich, arriving at 16:10. Hire car from Munich airport and drive to Salzburg. We are staying at the Goldene Ente in Goldgasse street in the Old Town, so we will leave the car in a car park while we are in Salzburg.

Thursday 4th December – our plan is to see Salzburg on foot. The 17 year old is a classical musician and is very interested in Mozart, as am I.
- visit tourist information office to get map, find out about concerts, and buy Salzburg card. We’ll then walk to and visit
- Mozartplatz
- Residenz Platz to look at the Glokenspiel
- Salzburg Cathedral – I think the Christmas markets will be here, so we’ll look around those too
- St Peter’s Cemetery and Church
- Mozart’s birthplace
- Have lunch and assess how everyone is feeling.

If everyone is up to it, we can walk over the Makartsteg pedestrian bridge and on to
- Mirabell Gardens and Palace
- Mozarts Wohnhaus
- Along Steingasse to see what a medieval street looked like
- St Sebastian Cemetery

Maybe go to a concert, but only if we can find one that is in the early evening, as everyone will be very tired.

Friday 5th December – if everyone is feeling up to it, and it is a clear day, we can go up to Hohensalzburg Fortress before we leave Salzburg.
Leave Salzburg and drive to Cesky Krumlov. Park the car in the Eggenberg parking.
We are staying in the Castle Apartments in a building called “The Ravens”, in Latran Street.
Go for a walk around the town before dinner.

Saturday 6th December – spend the morning walking around Cesky Krumlov, including the outside of the castle. Try to find a supermarket and buy some staple groceries for our stay in Prague. Leave Cesky Krumlov at midday and drive to Prague.
In Prague we are staying in the Spruce Apartments in Uvoz Street in the Castle Steps area. The managers of the apartments have reserved parking for us nearby so we can leave the car there for the duration of our stay in Prague. When we have checked in we want to walk down to Charles Bridge to see it at night. We’ll probably have dinner back at the apartment and then, if we are up to it, we’d like to go for a walk around the castle grounds before bed.

Sunday 7th December – walk to Old Town Square via Charles Bridge, and the Klementinum. See the Jan Hus Memorial, the 27 crosses, the astronomical clock, and the buildings surrounding the square from the outside. If the Tyn Church is open we would like to go inside. We’ll then walk through the Ungelt Courtyard, visit the church of St James, and then head for the Jewish Quarter. We would like to spend the rest of the morning going through the Jewish Quarter and may have lunch there. If everyone isn’t too tired we could visit the museum of medieval art before we take public transport to the Strahov Monastery and Library which we will go into. Afterwards we’d like to visit the museum of miniatures and Loreta Church. Finally we want to head for the Church of St Nicholas in Lesser Town so we can attend a 17:00 concert.

Monday 8th December – spend most of the day going through the castle. Then we’ll head for Old Town Square to see the big Christmas Tree which should be lit up by the time we get there, and we can browse through the Christmas Markets.

Tuesday 9th December – drive from Prague to Dresden. We are staying at the Dresden Hilton so we’ll park the car in their parking and then walk to Theaterplatz. We then plan to do a walk around the Old Town of Dresden, looking at the outsides of Semper Oper, the Zwinger, Kulturpalast, the Royal Palace, and the Watchman’s Tower. Sadly the Royal Palace, incuding the Green Vault, is closed on Tuesdays. We then want to go into the Hofkirche, the Frauenkirche, and the Frauenkirche Vistors’ Centre.

We would like to spend the rest of the afternoon and evening in the Christmas Markets. I believe there is the Striezelmarkt in the Altmarkt, and the medieval-themed market in the Stallhoff of the Wettin Palace.

Then we need to get to bed early because we have to be up at 5am on Wednesday 10th December, to leave the hotel by 5.30am, and to reach Dresden airport by 6am. We’ll drop the car off at the airport and will check-in at 6.15am for our flight to Rome.

It has taken me so long to work out this first week. When I have worked out the next 2 weeks – our time in Italy – I’d be most grateful if you’d critique that for me as well.

Thanks so much!

Barbara_in_CT

I'm no expert but here are two suggestions:

1. Use a Bayern Pass to travel from Munich to Salzburg and wait to rent car there.

2. Don't be afraid to split into two groups to accomodate different interests.

This is a wonderful opportunity for your children that will change the way that they look at the world.

ira

Hi O,

If you are going to drop the car in Dresden, you are correct to pick it up in Munich.

There will likely be a large drop off fee if you get the car in Austria.

You will need to buy a vignette (Road tax sticker)to drive on the highways in Austria before you cross the border - 8E (I think)

They are available at the gas stations along the A8/E52.

Enjoy your visit.

Lexma90

It's been years since I've visited Munich and Salzburg, so I can't really comment on what you're planning to do there. Except that if one of your group is a musician, I'm sure you can find the concert schedule online and see if there's something special to attend before you actually get there, maybe even purchase tickets ahead of time. Prague has very good concerts. Shough if your musician is discerning, you might want to focus on those in the Municipal House and the like.

My main comment is that you're cramming a lot into a short time, with 4 stops in a short time period. Especially because you have a nice, long vacation, you may find that your group gets tired of moving hotels so often. I know all of your places sound great, and your route makes sense, but give some thought to dropping something.

We haven't visited Cesky Krumlov, but we did spend 4 nights in two other beautiful little Czech towns. They were beautiful, and it was nice to see a more rural side of the Czech Republic, but as I say to my family, we can't see everything! But it seems that you've picked it partly because it's halfway between a rather long drive from Salzburg to Prague. You'll have two back-to-back drives of around 3 hours with basically no stops on the way (though there are stops you could make, but that would take away from your already-short stays in Cesky Krumlov and Prague). On the way: Romzberk in Austria - don't know anything about it, but I think that's a castle, and I saw on mappy.com that you go right through it. And in the Czech Republic, there are several well-known castles between Cesky Krumlov and Prague.

Others may have better suggestions, but it doesn't seem like you're using your car except to get from big city to big city. I'm not so knowledgeable about trains, but you might consider taking the train from Munich to Salzburg, then skipping Cesky Krumlov and taking a cheap flight from Salzburg to Prague. Then train or drive from there to Dresden.

dfr4848

You've obviously done a LOT of planning. We did a similar trip in '07 and, while it's busy, I think it's doable and you've listed most of the sites I'd suggest.

Couple of thoughts:

Agree that if you're leaving car in Dresden, pick it up in Munich.

You're arriving at 16:10. Will problably get out of airport around 18:00 or so. It will be dark. Maybe you don't suffer from jet lag as we do, but I'd have a backup plan for staying closer to Munich the first night. I know the drive to Salzburg is pretty easy and not long, but if you have jet lag, it's dark and you run into inclement weather (which you can in Dec) you might not want to drive all the way to Salzburg that night.

Cesky Krumlov is definitely a must see IMO. Beautiful little town in a time-warp. It sounds like you know the castle is closed Nov - Mar, but thought I'd mention it just in case. Still worth the visit to CK though.

Prague and Dresden are 2 of our favorites - and think you're hitting the main sites.

Ozziez

Thanks very much everyone.

Barbara - your point about splitting up into 2 groups is a great one - I'll definitely bear that in mind, especially when the Phillistines (DH and 10 year old) get bored with Mozart! Thanks also for your comment about the opportunity for the children - much appreciated.

Ira - yes, you're quite right that the reason why we're picking up the car in Munich is because we're dropping it off in Dresden. Thanks for the reminder about the vignette. I think we'll need to get one for the Czech Republic too (I think it is called a dalnicni znamka). Thank you for your good wishes.

Lexma90 - thanks for the concert info for Prague. My musician is very discerning so I'll get her to look at the concert schedules online as you suggest. I know we are doing a lot - but it is much, much, much better than when we were going to cram Fussen, Leopold II's castles, and Vienna in too ! I kid you not! LOL ! I did spend lots of time researching and pondering trains and planes and just couldn't get the right combination for our schedule without spending a huge amount of money and wasting lots and lots of time. I am a bit nervous about the driving, but my DH (the driver) reassures me that he has it all under control .....
Unfortunately we won't have any time to stop on our trip from Munich to Salzburg because we really need to get to the hotel by 8pm, but your suggestion of stopping along the way from Salzburg to Cesky Krumov is very good. The castles I've looked at so far along that route are closed in December, but we could get out and wander around outside anyway I suppose.


Please continue to give me feedback everyone - I really do appreciate your time and effort.

Ozziez

Hi dfr4848 - your post slipped through while I was typing my reply to the first 3 posters! Thanks so much for checking my plans so carefully and for your endorsement of them.

Your idea about having a backup plan to stay nearer Munich for the first night is a very good one - I'll look into this. I am useless after a long flight because I can't sleep on planes, but my DH can sleep anywhere and feels confident he'll be able to do the drive - but you never know!

Yes, because the castle in Cesky Krumlov is closed I e-mailed the tourist advisory and they told me that we'll still be able to walk up to the castle, through all the courtyards, and around the outside of the castle, just not go inside. I originally planned 2 days in Cesky Krumlov but changed it to 1 day based on the advice of Fodorites, but I just couldn't bear to miss seeing it altogether!

dfr4848

Ozziez - yes, you'll need a vignette for the Czech Republic too. You can get them at the border crossing - forgot how much they are.

Bird

Ozzeiz,

I would recommend a tour of the Semper Oper in Dresden, especially if you are into music. You might have a hard time finding an English speaking guide, but just wandering around inside the building is worth the trip to Dresden.

Check to see if there is a concert at the Frauenkirche - awe inspiring.

There is a fairly decent Australian restaurant in Dresden - Ayers Rock. In case you get homesick.

Make sure your rental car company allows you to drive your car into the Czech Republic. Many don't.

Delaine

I know you said you haven't included any art galleries, but the Gemäldegalerie Alte Meister in the Zwinger in Dresden contains Raphael's Sistine Madonna. The famous pair of mischievous angels that are seen everywhere are at the bottom of the picture, and you will see them all over Dresden. I think it is (as well as the rest of the museum) quite worth seeing.

Lexma90

Here are some additional suggestions for Prague - we were there this Spring with our 13yo DS.

Black light theatre - There are many productions of this concept. It's a very dark theater - loud music - involving the use of black lights on specially painted objects. If you have time (which you may not), we hadn't seen this kind of thing anywhere we've traveled in Europe. Our son really enjoyed it; it was a bit loud for us adults, but interesting.

This is the company that we used for our tickets for the Black Light theatre (not really necessary to buy in advance, as we found out) and a performance at the Municipal House: www.bohemiaticket.cz. I was able to pay in advance, and select seats, then easily picked up the tickets after we arrived. There's a ticket office just off Old Town Square. When we were there, the symphony orchestra wasn't performing, so that wasn't an option for us. All throughout Prague, there are daily performances in many of the churches. I don't think you'll need to buy tickets in advance for those. In any event, you can see what performances are scheduled by going to the site above. We saw a fantastic violin concert by Nigal Kennedy - DS plays the violin. But it was a special performance, part of the Prague Spring performances, and quite expensive. The church performances are very reasonably priced. Though, rereading your plans, it sounds like you've already selected a concert for in Prague.

Make sure you seek out the very small memorial to the Velvet Revolution, if you're in the area. It's on the side of a building on Narodni Street, under an arcade; a plaque with young (students’) hands in a V for Victory gesture, with empty hands – no weapons; I found it very moving.

Karlstejn castle is kind of on your way from Cesky Krumlov to Prague, but I'm guessing it won't be open either, and I'm not sure it will be worth your time to detour past it.

The Jewish Quarter in Prague is pretty close to everything else, so you can easily walk from there to have lunch closer to Old Town Square, where there are more restaurants, though they tend to be very touristy. We had lunch in the beautiful little Ungelt square, at Cafe Restaurant Metamorphis. The food was quite good - we all had pizzas, and better prices than right on Old Town Square.

As the Strahov Monastery and Loreto church are on Castle Hill, you may want to visit them on Monday, when you're visiting the Castle. On the day that we visited all of those, we had lunch above Prague Castle, at Klasterni Pivovar, which we all enjoyed. We saw the entire Prague Castle area in one morning, had lunch at about 1 pm, then visited Loreto in the afternoon (skipped the Strahov library) and had time to head over to ride the funicular up Petrin Hill. At the top, there's a mirror maze, mildly interesting for kids. At the bottom of the funicular, about 1/2 block past the entrance, there's another interesting memorial: Monument to Those Who Survived Communism.

Keep your eyes open for a fun snack item, sold from stalls on the streets: it’s called "trdlo." It’s made using pretzel dough, but rolled out, cut into strips, and wrapped around a thick oven-proof ring, or stick. When it’s baked, the pastries were the size of large bracelets. After they’re baked, they’re rolled in butter sugar, cinnamon and chopped walnuts.

Enjoy!

Ozziez

Gee you Fodorites are great! Thank you so much for all the input!

Bird - on your recommendation we will definitely go into Semper Oper and I'll find out about concerts at Frauenkirche. Thanks for the heads up about the Ayres Rock restaurant too! Yes, I am aware about the problems taking hired cars into the Czech Republic.It is causing me quite a headache at the moment because it is stopping me getting quotes for car hire online. I have to contact the car hire agencies directly and really am getting the run around at the moment because I want a large vehicle with 7 seats because there will be 5 of us and 5 suitcases, and car hire companies keep giving me quotes for sedans ..... A challenge, but I'll get there eventually ....

Delaine, Gemaldegalerie sounds like a must - thanks so much for telling me about it.

Lexma90, I think you had better come with us - you are a mine of useful information. I have added all you've suggested to our itinerary. Thank you so, so much! We haven't decided on a concert in Prague yet - my daughter plays the oboe, clarinet and piano, so I've given her a printout of your posts and have asked her to do some research.

Please continue to give me feedback everyone - this is extremely useful and very much appreciated!

Ozziez

Here's a question for Bird, or anyone else who may know. I have been investigating the Semper Oper. Am I correct in my understanding that you can only go inside if you join one of the tours? We are very keen to see inside, and will happily join a tour if there is one, but if none are running does that mean we can't look around inside?

Unfortunately there won't be any concerts at Frauenkirche on 9th December, so we'll definitely use the time to visit the Gemaldegalerie.

All further feedback will be very gratefully received!

quokka

You cannot go into the opera house without a tour (or, in the evening, a ticket for a performance).

You have but one afternoon in Dresden, which is an extreme rush. The attractions you are listing so far would easily fill two full days. Take into consideration that it will be dark by 4 p.m.

There won't be time for visiting museums. The Gemäldegalerie closes at 6 p.m., so this is nothing you can do in the evening. Keep it as a plan B in case of bad weather.

Ozziez

Thanks quokka for clarifying that for me. Yes, I think it might be best to keep the Gemäldegalerie as a wet-weather option.

Otzi

Last December we spent 150 Koruny or less than $10.00 USD for a ten day pass. Got it at the first gas station inside the Czech Republic as we left Dresden toward Prague. The toughest part was trying to figure out how to peal off the paper to affix the silly thing to our windshield.

Ozziez

Ah ha! Thanks for that Otzi!

Vernejules

bookmarking

ira

Hi OZ,

You are leaving your car in parking lots for almost your entire trip.

Have you checked prices for train travel?

Also, I urge you to try to fit a visit to Terezin Concentration Camp into your itinerary.

It will be very sobering, but very important for your offspring.

Ozziez

Hi ira

Thanks for mentioning Terezin Concentration Camp. I will definitely add it to our itinerary and we can go there on our third day in Prague if we have time.

Yes, I tried and tried and tried to make this trip work using trains and/or planes. I really didn't want to have to hire a car and drive in Europe in winter. I just couldn't make it work though.

I found train travel for 5 of us worked out to be quite expensive and the trains did not run at the right times for our schedule which meant that a lot of our first week would have been taken up in trains. Even night train options had awkawrd schedules that involved having to change trains a few times, quite late at night, which would have been exhausting for all of us, but especially for the children. I also couldn't find a train from Salzburg to Cesky Krumlov, or Cesky Krumlov to Prague. Flying from Salzburg to Prague was also very expensive and flights were also at awkward times.

I am really hoping that driving will work out OK, that we won't have any accidents, that we won't get too lost, and that whichever car hire company we eventually use doesn't charge us heaps for all the hidden extras that other Fodorites are currently reporting.

It is a tricky situation .....