Ryanair cancels flights
Sep 17th, 2017, 10:32 PM
#4
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This one is weird.
Airlines cancel flights all the time, and are simply a fact of life.
What's disgraceful and bizarrely misjudged about these - and IMHO make them the key turning point starting Ryanair on the path to self-destruction - is the policy it's chosen for handling them.
First they've lied: one minute they're doing it to improve punctuality, the next it's because they're short of staff. So within seconds of the announcement, they've changed it.
Second: this is a bloody stupid time to take bloody stupid decisions. Norwegian is the first lowcost with the brains and money to confront Ryanair head to head - and Ryanair's short of staff because of Norwegian's growth. Norwegian's determined to shaft the deceitful little Irish loudmouth whose genius built Ryanair, but whose arrogance is now destroying it
Third: they've chosen to handle the cancellations in a way that beggars belief. Because they grudgingly refund only the cost of Ryanair flights not taken, many customers are stuck in places like Wroclaw they've paid just £19 to get to, but now have to pay hundreds to get home from in time to get to work. This is an infinitely bigger problem than the usual Ryanair discomforts people moan about but never stop people using the airline.
The publicity is dreadful - with Norwegian's growth giving customers an equally cheap, frequent, safe and punctual alternative without Ryanair's schoolboy determination to make customers uncomfortable. Previously, bad publicity was just a free ad for the airline: if people wanted to vote with their feet, they had to pay Lufthansa's prices. No-one did.
Ryanair will either change the determination to be nasty its business model's built on, or become another demonstration of how what makes a business big eventually drives it to bankruptcy.
Airlines cancel flights all the time, and are simply a fact of life.
What's disgraceful and bizarrely misjudged about these - and IMHO make them the key turning point starting Ryanair on the path to self-destruction - is the policy it's chosen for handling them.
First they've lied: one minute they're doing it to improve punctuality, the next it's because they're short of staff. So within seconds of the announcement, they've changed it.
Second: this is a bloody stupid time to take bloody stupid decisions. Norwegian is the first lowcost with the brains and money to confront Ryanair head to head - and Ryanair's short of staff because of Norwegian's growth. Norwegian's determined to shaft the deceitful little Irish loudmouth whose genius built Ryanair, but whose arrogance is now destroying it
Third: they've chosen to handle the cancellations in a way that beggars belief. Because they grudgingly refund only the cost of Ryanair flights not taken, many customers are stuck in places like Wroclaw they've paid just £19 to get to, but now have to pay hundreds to get home from in time to get to work. This is an infinitely bigger problem than the usual Ryanair discomforts people moan about but never stop people using the airline.
The publicity is dreadful - with Norwegian's growth giving customers an equally cheap, frequent, safe and punctual alternative without Ryanair's schoolboy determination to make customers uncomfortable. Previously, bad publicity was just a free ad for the airline: if people wanted to vote with their feet, they had to pay Lufthansa's prices. No-one did.
Ryanair will either change the determination to be nasty its business model's built on, or become another demonstration of how what makes a business big eventually drives it to bankruptcy.
Sep 17th, 2017, 10:40 PM
#5
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So, is there no legal protection for the people they've stranded? I mean, for example, if there's a mechanical issue, there are regulations in place about what you'd be entitled to as a passenger. Otherwise, it seems to me that any airline could just say "flight cancelled, good luck".
Sep 17th, 2017, 10:47 PM
#6
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No protection at all except a refund of the ticket price. And they will have to pay compensation.
Passengers have to arrange their own flights back, last minute at much higher prices, and will then have to tackle Ryanair for compensation. This is notoriously difficult with that airline. Compensation apparently ranges between 250 and 600 euros. If everyone claims this (and I hope everyone will) it will cost them up to 100 million euro.
They will cancel more flight in the coming week, but will not give advance warning.
I don't know who will take the chance to book with this company now.
Passengers have to arrange their own flights back, last minute at much higher prices, and will then have to tackle Ryanair for compensation. This is notoriously difficult with that airline. Compensation apparently ranges between 250 and 600 euros. If everyone claims this (and I hope everyone will) it will cost them up to 100 million euro.
They will cancel more flight in the coming week, but will not give advance warning.
I don't know who will take the chance to book with this company now.
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Sep 17th, 2017, 11:15 PM
#8
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No, I did get the last, I just was surprised. Would have thought it would happen more often, if airlines could cancel without consequence.
As for who will still book....most of the same people who did before, because of the price. People still fly with united...
As for who will still book....most of the same people who did before, because of the price. People still fly with united...
Sep 18th, 2017, 12:40 AM
#10
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At the same time O'reilly criticizes M May for not sorting out Brexit faster which may impact his flights...
https://www.theguardian.com/business...eary-uk-europe
The arrogance of O'Leary is without limit.
I dislike Ryanair since I 'had to' take a flight with a handicapped child in a wheelchair - and they coul not have cared less at a time when no seats were assigned so it was the rush and all the passengers went over the wheelchair to be sure to have a good seat... Who would care about a handicapped child ? (uho, I'm still angry nearly 10 years after it happened).
But I often fly with them for the job. Never for holiday when I would have to rely on them.
(And I NEVER speak English when boarding the flight in Belgium. Passive resistance ...)
https://www.theguardian.com/business...eary-uk-europe
The arrogance of O'Leary is without limit.
I dislike Ryanair since I 'had to' take a flight with a handicapped child in a wheelchair - and they coul not have cared less at a time when no seats were assigned so it was the rush and all the passengers went over the wheelchair to be sure to have a good seat... Who would care about a handicapped child ? (uho, I'm still angry nearly 10 years after it happened).
But I often fly with them for the job. Never for holiday when I would have to rely on them.
(And I NEVER speak English when boarding the flight in Belgium. Passive resistance ...)
Sep 18th, 2017, 07:24 AM
#11
At least they have decided to announce tomorrow a full list of the cancelled flights. Big Whoop (!) . . .
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ne...-compensation/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ne...-compensation/
Sep 18th, 2017, 07:40 AM
#12
Years ago I decided to never fly Ryanair, no matter what, and was called variations on "stupid" more than once when I mentioned it. I remember one (not here) in particular, GarryRF from Liverpool. I may not be able to stop myself commenting there now.
Sep 18th, 2017, 07:50 AM
#13
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Ryanair has never, ever cared about customer service, always a "you pay your money and take your chances" scenario. O'Leary is the Trump of low cost airlines.
We've used easyjet many times, rarely a problem. In 10 years of maybe 8-10 flights a year plus around 4 a year we booked for the kids, husband got stuck in Gatwick overnight once and also happened to kids once.
Easyjet paid all accommodation costs, etc. or refunded cost of ticket. Only downside of easyjet, when a flight is canceled, next flight is often next day.
We've used easyjet many times, rarely a problem. In 10 years of maybe 8-10 flights a year plus around 4 a year we booked for the kids, husband got stuck in Gatwick overnight once and also happened to kids once.
Easyjet paid all accommodation costs, etc. or refunded cost of ticket. Only downside of easyjet, when a flight is canceled, next flight is often next day.
Sep 18th, 2017, 08:07 AM
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No, I did get the last, I just was surprised. Would have thought it would happen more often, if airlines could cancel without consequence.>>
The person you said that to actually said "no protection at all" except they have to refund the money and they owe the EU penalty for doing that. That's what the penalty is, a consequence. What else do you expect other than a monetary penalty? But that penalty only kicks in if they cancel within 14 days of departure, if they cancel a flight two months of now, no, there is no penalty. I don't see why airlines would do that all the time given their goal is to run flights and make money.
People can't be "stranded in Wroclaw", I've been there, there is a rail line and you could easily take a train to a major city if it came to that, like Dresden or Berlin or Krakow, to get alternative flights.
<<First they've lied: one minute they're doing it to improve punctuality, the next it's because they're short of staff. So within seconds of the announcement, they've changed it.>> I think it's really both reasons combined, but the reason is they have messed up the books of their pilots' working hours and have a lot of backlogged vacation time due which by EU law must be given before the end of the year. So that's why they are short of staff, because they are too incompetent to run an airline and staffing issues, and personnel problems are causing some punctuality problems due to lack of planes.
I have never flown them and wouldn't for a major trip, I could see doing it for a quick weekend maybe. But this shows how incomptent they are, that they can't even manage their own pilots' vacation time.
The person you said that to actually said "no protection at all" except they have to refund the money and they owe the EU penalty for doing that. That's what the penalty is, a consequence. What else do you expect other than a monetary penalty? But that penalty only kicks in if they cancel within 14 days of departure, if they cancel a flight two months of now, no, there is no penalty. I don't see why airlines would do that all the time given their goal is to run flights and make money.
People can't be "stranded in Wroclaw", I've been there, there is a rail line and you could easily take a train to a major city if it came to that, like Dresden or Berlin or Krakow, to get alternative flights.
<<First they've lied: one minute they're doing it to improve punctuality, the next it's because they're short of staff. So within seconds of the announcement, they've changed it.>> I think it's really both reasons combined, but the reason is they have messed up the books of their pilots' working hours and have a lot of backlogged vacation time due which by EU law must be given before the end of the year. So that's why they are short of staff, because they are too incompetent to run an airline and staffing issues, and personnel problems are causing some punctuality problems due to lack of planes.
I have never flown them and wouldn't for a major trip, I could see doing it for a quick weekend maybe. But this shows how incomptent they are, that they can't even manage their own pilots' vacation time.
Sep 18th, 2017, 08:23 AM
#16
"...they are too incompetent to run an airline..."
And how does this relate to his ambition to take over Alitalia, one cannot help but wonder? Poor Alitalia.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...michael-oleary
And how does this relate to his ambition to take over Alitalia, one cannot help but wonder? Poor Alitalia.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...michael-oleary
Sep 18th, 2017, 08:32 AM
#17
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Passenger rights
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/...-a7949916.html
<i>You are entitled under EU rules to “rerouting, under comparable transport conditions, to your final destination at the earliest opportunity”. Unfortunately what exactly “the earliest opportunity” means has not been properly tested and defined in court.
Many passengers are being told they may need to wait several days before they can be flown to their destination. But the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) tells me airlines are obliged to book you on a rival airline “where there is a significant difference in the time that a reroute can be offered on the airline’s own services”. The CAA does not define “significant”; easyJet, Britain’s biggest budget airline, insists that if it can get you to your destination within 48 hours then it will not allow a switch to another airline.
“Passengers shall be offered free of charge (a) meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time; (b) hotel accommodation in cases where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary,” say the EU rules.
The airline is obliged to provide these, but if it does not, you should keep all receipts to claim back the cost later (and note that “refreshments” do not include alcohol).
Ryanair is obliged to pay €250 cash compensation for each passenger on a cancelled flight of up to 1,500km, rising to €400 for longer flights. The only way the airline can dodge this liability is if it tells you of the cancellation at least two weeks ahead; or, if it gives you a week’s notice and finds another flight that gets you to your destination less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival; or if gives you less than a week’s notice but puts you on a flight that arrives less than two hours after you were supposed to get there.
</i>
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/...-a7949916.html
<i>You are entitled under EU rules to “rerouting, under comparable transport conditions, to your final destination at the earliest opportunity”. Unfortunately what exactly “the earliest opportunity” means has not been properly tested and defined in court.
Many passengers are being told they may need to wait several days before they can be flown to their destination. But the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) tells me airlines are obliged to book you on a rival airline “where there is a significant difference in the time that a reroute can be offered on the airline’s own services”. The CAA does not define “significant”; easyJet, Britain’s biggest budget airline, insists that if it can get you to your destination within 48 hours then it will not allow a switch to another airline.
“Passengers shall be offered free of charge (a) meals and refreshments in a reasonable relation to the waiting time; (b) hotel accommodation in cases where a stay of one or more nights becomes necessary,” say the EU rules.
The airline is obliged to provide these, but if it does not, you should keep all receipts to claim back the cost later (and note that “refreshments” do not include alcohol).
Ryanair is obliged to pay €250 cash compensation for each passenger on a cancelled flight of up to 1,500km, rising to €400 for longer flights. The only way the airline can dodge this liability is if it tells you of the cancellation at least two weeks ahead; or, if it gives you a week’s notice and finds another flight that gets you to your destination less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival; or if gives you less than a week’s notice but puts you on a flight that arrives less than two hours after you were supposed to get there.
</i>
Sep 18th, 2017, 08:49 AM
#18
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Thinking of their motto "always getting better", well not very appropriate.
Dame McCall faced the same situation when she took the top position in easyjet. A penny pinching attitude that deterred easyjet from truly care for the customer. She fixed it but Ryanair obviously did not, so far
Dame McCall faced the same situation when she took the top position in easyjet. A penny pinching attitude that deterred easyjet from truly care for the customer. She fixed it but Ryanair obviously did not, so far
Sep 18th, 2017, 08:55 AM
#19
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Well, then in that case, there is a consequence, and 250 should cover getting home. That's a good deal more than what a simple refund would be, thanks for the link.
If they cancel flights more than 2 weeks out, it's unlikely they're stranding anyone anywhere.
Christina- of course they aren't truly stranded but if they hadn't got the money to book a much more expensive flight, they would be seriously delayed. Flying home a week late because your airline cancelled your flight IS being stranded, and could have all sorts of consequences. Babysitters, petsitters, your job...
If they cancel flights more than 2 weeks out, it's unlikely they're stranding anyone anywhere.
Christina- of course they aren't truly stranded but if they hadn't got the money to book a much more expensive flight, they would be seriously delayed. Flying home a week late because your airline cancelled your flight IS being stranded, and could have all sorts of consequences. Babysitters, petsitters, your job...
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