Brussels to Berlin is one long haul in the day but there is an overnight train you can connect with in either Cologne or Dusselsdorf to Berlin - but it arrives in Berlin around 4:30 am - but save daytime travel time thru so-so scenery and the cost of a night's accommodation.

The Itinerary is bad enough without adding a night spent on a train. OP needs to seriously revise her itinerary before deciding on train schedules. I've only done a couple of night trains and neither were particularly restful.

I don't see any reason to rule out night trains and I am mystified by the suggestion that what the OP needs to do is pick an itinerary first and THEN look at train schedules. When planning a multi-country trip it is often much better to start with looking at what the optimal transportation connections are and then choose or eliminate destinations based on that.

For instance there is an overnight train from Amsterdam to Prague that stops in Cologne that could really be an asset for a group like this. If it were my group I would seriously consider starting in Brussels for a few days then heading to the UK for a week or more and then followed by Paris for a week --- and then taking the train to Cologne to pick up the overnight train to Prague for a few days -- and from there it would be possible to make good train connections to Vienna or Munich or head down into Italy.

I certainly would not make up a list of cities to see numbered 1 through 10 and then try to figure out how to get from 1 to 2 to 3 to 4.....

This trip sounds exhausting and not pleasant at all. It is time to prioritize destinations and drastically trim your plans. You will need to save some of these locations for a future trip.

If your mother really doesn't care where she goes, you can skip the places you've already been in favor of new adventures. However, if the big cities: London, Paris, Rome are on her list you will want at least 4 days or so in each and a day of travel time which already uses at least two weeks of your trip. Try to avoid one night stops (one or two at most) if at all possible and schedule some three or four night stops (or longer.) Add in travel time. I think I counted 25 stops in your itinerary not counting your tour which really won't allow you time to see much except roadways and train stations.

In short, this is way too much. Two to three stops a week would be a very busy trip as you have to figure every time you change locations you lose at least half a day in travel time.

sandralist, you did not properly interrupt my post. The OP needs to revise and downsize her itinerary Instead of and before making plans to put a night train on her schedule. Also consider the pros ( IMO few ) and cons of taking night trains. I have done so and for me the cons outweigh the pros. It might well be fine for someone on their 20's as a way to utilize travel time but, for mom, may not be a good option.

Re: the suggestion of putting a week's rest in the middle of your trip. We tried this a couple times, got bored, a likely outcome for you too. Instead we extend our stops, adding a day here and 2 days there. That has worked much better.

Even if and when you cut the number of stops down, you're going to do lots of train trips. You need to keep the luggage light. Does your mother understand this?

>>sandralist, you did not properly interrupt my post. <<

I <i>think</i> you meant interpret . . . but interrupt works too ;)

I Appreciate all the replies everyone. I absolutely understand that this itinerary is WAAAAAAAY too much, hence why I'm needing advice to trim it.

Taking comments into consideration, I have opted out of the Britain tour. Instead will spend 5 or 6 days in London at the start doing a few day trips out from there, then fly to Edinburgh for a few days, then fly to Paris. We'll spend about 5 or 6 days in Paris, again doing day trips out from there (possibly one to Brussels - I know people may not think a day is enough in Brussels but I've looked at different forums and checked the sights we'd be interested in and a day trip will suffice). Skipping the Loire Valley in favour of going straight from Paris to Bordeaux for 3 days, then onto Toulouse. The problem I'm still facing is getting through Carcassonne, Montpellier, and Nimes on the way to Marseille. The reason for the one night stops at each of these towns originally was because there is nowhere to store luggage if we were to do them as part of a stepping stone day trip on the way to Marseille. We need a base for these trips. Toulouse seems obvious to do a day trip to Carcassonne, but there will be a lot of backtracking trying to do the same for Montpellier and Nimes as they run along the same rail line. On that note, yes I have very much been checking train schedules for every single step of this trip - everything has been based off a rail map of Europe from the Rail Europe website.

I'm still working on the rest of the itinerary as all other places are very high on our list. Not sure what to do with Switzerland, but will probably end up taking it off.

Thanks again for the comments.

this feels like a collection of trophies. Wow France in 5 days Europe in 3 days. Here you have only time to at the station to see the arrivals and departures that. Life on your tour goes past you, like on TV.
There should be fewer destinations, but immersed in the respective country, visit markets in small towns, marvel at nature ....

Do check the train schedule, not just the map. Preferably the schedule at www.bahn.de/i/view/USA/en/index.shtml. This has all the trains, not necessarily true at RailEurope. Some places that look easily connected in fact require multiple changes.

Glad to see you're cutting this itinerary down. Keep it up. Brussels would be a longish daytrip from Paris and not worth it in my mind.

Brussels is only about 80 minutes by train from Paris - not that longish and you can score discounted ticket as little as 29 euros each way if you book at www.thalys.com months in advance to get these limited in number deep discounted seats - still makes an expensive day trip at about $90 in train fare alone IF you get the deepest discounted tickets..

janisj, you're right I did mean interpret. I don't know why auto correct assumes it knows the correct word. In addition my typing skills are not good especially on iPad. Of course I should have proof read.:)


Cassie, your itinerary is looking better. A couple of suggestions. If already in London, take the train as it's faster and easier than flying. Why Bordeaux? I like it but think there might be better options. I believe it was Russ's suggestion to think of your trip as a hub and spokes that is picking a city and doing day trips from there but don't get so wrapped up in doing so many day trips that you miss out on the " hub". For example, if spending 6/7 days in London, I think 2/3 day trips at the max.

Cassie's, forget my comment on Bordeaux. It seems like we ( Fodorites ) often start to personalize itineraries when trying to help out. It becomes what I'd do rather that what poster is wanting to do. Bordeaux is fine.

I definitely agree w/ history traveler re it is almost always better to take the train London to Edinburgh if one is IN London to begin with. It is faster door to door and you don't have the schlepps to/from the airports.

If you book well ahead the train fare can be as cheap/cheaper than the airfare. But even if it cost more, taking a train is easier/more comfortable.

If you are definitely going to Scotland, why not start there, train to London, train to Paris?

Or, train from London to Brussels, stay a night, see Brugge the next day, train to Paris.

Mimar - thank you for the link. I have been checking train schedules from multiples sites and am aware of all connections required between each route.

Brussels won't be too long a day trip and well have eurail passes so don't need to pay for the point to point ticket.

Would the train from London to Edinburgh be faster than flying? It's only about an hour and a half flight compared with 4 and half hours by train and can get cheap flights. Though that's not taking into account the getting to and from the airport so I hear you about it being easier to train. We'll only be doing 3 day-trips from london so leaves us enough time to explore the city itself.

It's the taking into account travel time from the centre of London( about an hour ) , checking in prior to flight ( 60/90 minutes ) going through security etc. that will make it a longer trip. The airport at Edinburgh is about 20/35 minutes to the centre of Edinburgh depending on transport and traffic. Waverley Station is centrally located, so you get off the train and you're there and have avoided the hassles of air travel.

>>Would the train from London to Edinburgh be faster than flying? It's only about an hour and a half flight compared with 4 and half hours by train and can get cheap flights. <<

Yes. Approx 1- 1.5 hours from your hotel to LHR or LGW - 1.5-2 hours at LHR or LGW, the 1 hr flight, and then maybe 30 mins getting to your hotel from EDI . . . vs . . . 15 or 20 mins to Kings Cross, get on train, get off train 4.2 hrs later, 10 mins (or less to your hotel). Soooooo much easier. And if you book 12 weeks before your train )or as soon as the cheap seats are released) the train will be very inexpensive.

No - flying is NOT faster. You are in the air less time than on the train - but from hotel to hotel train is faster.

If you are calculating all of your travel that way I doubt you will make it through the first week of your trip.

Before you make Brussels a day trip from Paris, please do Google some images of Brugge and even Ghent. The major problem I have with your itinerary is that you are going long distances from place to place and passing right by or very near to others that may be even more beautiful or interesting and require less time traveling to get there.

Going to Montpellier, Nimes and Marseilles, look at images of Arles and Les Beaux. Both are right in between. You might also look at images of the Camargue and Aigues Mortes. Yes, I understand, too many places to see - ever! All very personal - what appeals to you most.

Before you purchase any train pass of any kind, cost it out. They do not always cover every trip and are not always a savings.