Tipping in the UK
Sep 29th, 2014, 04:28 PM
#23
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Here we go, the Brits wade in with their limited knowledge of tipping but insistence that they know all about it. Hilarious, the same mistake as the writer of the article made.
Well think about this. I don't think anyone knowledgeable would attempt to argue that customer service in restaurants, bars, hotels, shops, or any other place the average person receives 'customer service' directly, would be tops in the UK vs. other countries. In fact, I think most people who have the experience to be able to compare service in various countries would put the UK low on the list of good service. Ask yourselves why that is.
Your culture does not reward good customer service. Most of those employed in service jobs don't expect to be rewarded for superior service and so they do a mediocre job. Nor does the average Brit expect more than mediocre service. It is a culture of mediocrity. But not everyone else in the world is satisfied with that. The UK is a quaint little country with quaint old ways. I can understand why you can't 'get it'.
Well think about this. I don't think anyone knowledgeable would attempt to argue that customer service in restaurants, bars, hotels, shops, or any other place the average person receives 'customer service' directly, would be tops in the UK vs. other countries. In fact, I think most people who have the experience to be able to compare service in various countries would put the UK low on the list of good service. Ask yourselves why that is.
Your culture does not reward good customer service. Most of those employed in service jobs don't expect to be rewarded for superior service and so they do a mediocre job. Nor does the average Brit expect more than mediocre service. It is a culture of mediocrity. But not everyone else in the world is satisfied with that. The UK is a quaint little country with quaint old ways. I can understand why you can't 'get it'.
You've made my morning.
Sep 30th, 2014, 12:46 AM
#25
When I pay at the bar for that first round, I will tip. Nothing flashy, just an 'I appreciate the service' and a folded 20GBP note slipped over the bar. You probably wouldn't even see me tipping that girl that smiles at your dumb jokes ever week, greets you by name when you come in and serves you your favourite drink without you having to ask.>>
Best laugh I've had today. in fact, best laugh I've had all week.
Nothing flashy and a folded £20 handed over the bar in the same sentence.
places that I go to would hand it back [and i get excellent service there, BTW].
Best laugh I've had today. in fact, best laugh I've had all week.
Nothing flashy and a folded £20 handed over the bar in the same sentence.
places that I go to would hand it back [and i get excellent service there, BTW].
Sep 30th, 2014, 01:36 AM
#28
Because we don't have this inflated tipping culture here in the UK, anyone who does tip 10% or so does express his/her appreciation of the service. I don't accept that we get mediocre service here either. People are generally pleased to do a job well and don't IME offer poor service.
In any case, if I go into a restaurant what is the difference between average and good service? I order, get food, eat and pay. Is it how many times they ask if everything's OK, or clear plates promptly? That happens anyway. Or is it the annoying constant topping up of my wine or water glass, to sell more wine or impress how great a server they are?
In a pub, why would you order a couple of drinks costing maybe £8, order again having spent £16 and give £20 as a tip? The staff in our local would put you down as having escaped from somewhere.
In a hotel, how do you know whether the room you get is better than the one you didn't get? You don't see both.
This all sounds like one of those gangster movies where the head waiter gets a note slid into his pocket for a table near the stage, like Henry in Goodfellas.
In any case, if I go into a restaurant what is the difference between average and good service? I order, get food, eat and pay. Is it how many times they ask if everything's OK, or clear plates promptly? That happens anyway. Or is it the annoying constant topping up of my wine or water glass, to sell more wine or impress how great a server they are?
In a pub, why would you order a couple of drinks costing maybe £8, order again having spent £16 and give £20 as a tip? The staff in our local would put you down as having escaped from somewhere.
In a hotel, how do you know whether the room you get is better than the one you didn't get? You don't see both.
This all sounds like one of those gangster movies where the head waiter gets a note slid into his pocket for a table near the stage, like Henry in Goodfellas.
Sep 30th, 2014, 02:57 AM
#30
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Ok - I'm warming to the idea...
http://www.ignant.de/2012/08/09/money-origami/?lang=de
Will gladly buy a drink for anyone that can get the fish right
http://www.ignant.de/2012/08/09/money-origami/?lang=de
Will gladly buy a drink for anyone that can get the fish right
Sep 30th, 2014, 03:10 AM
#31
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It has to be the butterfly. it is the only one where the tippee will know the value of the tip without unfolding it.
I suppose we will have to look out for anyone standing by a bar folding up the tip before ordering.
There has to be an easier way of getting the drink you want. Perhaps by smiling and saying please?
I suppose we will have to look out for anyone standing by a bar folding up the tip before ordering.
There has to be an easier way of getting the drink you want. Perhaps by smiling and saying please?
Sep 30th, 2014, 06:15 AM
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Sep 30th, 2014, 07:09 AM
#35
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>> 'I appreciate the service' and a folded 20GBP note slipped over the bar.<<
And wide open to misinterpretation. They <i>might</i> think you were trying to get some other sort of service, leading to either a swift ejection or some even more embarrassing situation.
And wide open to misinterpretation. They <i>might</i> think you were trying to get some other sort of service, leading to either a swift ejection or some even more embarrassing situation.
Sep 30th, 2014, 08:42 AM
#36
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Rubicund, if you don't believe you get mediocre service, on what evidence are you basing that opinion? Compared to where?
Read this article, written by a Brit about the experience of another Brit. http://www.mikefaith.com/?p=9
What you should get out of that are two things. The person serving his friend actually cared about making her happy and second, the expectations are higher. I would say to you that when you write, "In any case, if I go into a restaurant what is the difference between average and good service? I order, get food, eat and pay. Is it how many times they ask if everything's OK, or clear plates promptly? That happens anyway. Or is it the annoying constant topping up of my wine or water glass, to sell more wine or impress how great a server they are?", you are indicating two things. Your expectations are not high and you think if they do more than the minimum they are trying to sell more wine or impress you.
Then read this article: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-12123463
What you might get out of that is how low the UK ranks in customer service compared to other countries. I'm a Brit by birth but grew up in Canada which was ranked #1 in the 2010 survey being mentioned. I COMPARE those and other countries when I say the UK is mediocre.
The second thing you might consider is what it says about customers. "But if things are to improve, customers have to pull their socks up too. They have to demand better service to push standards up." I would simply add, they need to learn how to provide the incentive to those serving them, not only by complaining when service sucks but by showing they appreciate superior service in the one way that really matters, money. Tips work and nothing provides more incentive.
Regarding the 20 to a bartender for 2 drinks, I wouldn't do that. I wasn't trying to suggest I would. I was referring to a busy Friday night with the bar being three deep and I am out with friends. I would expect to spend 100 plus for the night. The 20 is simply a 20% tip up front. The point is to tip up front.
If I were out on my own on a quiet Tuesday night and only planning to have 1 or 2 drinks then I would still tip up front but it might only be a fiver. Up front is the point, the amount will depend on the circumstances.
Regarding the hotel scenario, yes you won't see other rooms. However, the evidence is available if you want to look for it, that will show you what happens. You could read the book Heads in Beds by industry insider Jacob Tomsky or you could just do some googling and find articles such as this one in Forbes, which is an interview with Tomsky: http://www.forbes.com/sites/nextaven...s-and-service/
You can find other insider info but I can assure you that they will agree. Book a cheap room online and chances are you will get a poorer room. Tip reception and chances are you will bet a better room. Never underestimate the power of hotel Reception staff to improve your stay.
The UK has mediocre service Rubicund, that really isn't in dispute and Brits in general don't expect any better or generally know how to get any better service. An article (the start of this post) by a Brit on tipping therefore is hilarious.
It's like a guy who drives an old Ford Escort trying to explain driving to a guy who drives a Testarossa. Their expectations and experience are worlds apart.
Read this article, written by a Brit about the experience of another Brit. http://www.mikefaith.com/?p=9
What you should get out of that are two things. The person serving his friend actually cared about making her happy and second, the expectations are higher. I would say to you that when you write, "In any case, if I go into a restaurant what is the difference between average and good service? I order, get food, eat and pay. Is it how many times they ask if everything's OK, or clear plates promptly? That happens anyway. Or is it the annoying constant topping up of my wine or water glass, to sell more wine or impress how great a server they are?", you are indicating two things. Your expectations are not high and you think if they do more than the minimum they are trying to sell more wine or impress you.
Then read this article: http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-12123463
What you might get out of that is how low the UK ranks in customer service compared to other countries. I'm a Brit by birth but grew up in Canada which was ranked #1 in the 2010 survey being mentioned. I COMPARE those and other countries when I say the UK is mediocre.
The second thing you might consider is what it says about customers. "But if things are to improve, customers have to pull their socks up too. They have to demand better service to push standards up." I would simply add, they need to learn how to provide the incentive to those serving them, not only by complaining when service sucks but by showing they appreciate superior service in the one way that really matters, money. Tips work and nothing provides more incentive.
Regarding the 20 to a bartender for 2 drinks, I wouldn't do that. I wasn't trying to suggest I would. I was referring to a busy Friday night with the bar being three deep and I am out with friends. I would expect to spend 100 plus for the night. The 20 is simply a 20% tip up front. The point is to tip up front.
If I were out on my own on a quiet Tuesday night and only planning to have 1 or 2 drinks then I would still tip up front but it might only be a fiver. Up front is the point, the amount will depend on the circumstances.
Regarding the hotel scenario, yes you won't see other rooms. However, the evidence is available if you want to look for it, that will show you what happens. You could read the book Heads in Beds by industry insider Jacob Tomsky or you could just do some googling and find articles such as this one in Forbes, which is an interview with Tomsky: http://www.forbes.com/sites/nextaven...s-and-service/
You can find other insider info but I can assure you that they will agree. Book a cheap room online and chances are you will get a poorer room. Tip reception and chances are you will bet a better room. Never underestimate the power of hotel Reception staff to improve your stay.
The UK has mediocre service Rubicund, that really isn't in dispute and Brits in general don't expect any better or generally know how to get any better service. An article (the start of this post) by a Brit on tipping therefore is hilarious.
It's like a guy who drives an old Ford Escort trying to explain driving to a guy who drives a Testarossa. Their expectations and experience are worlds apart.
Sep 30th, 2014, 11:18 AM
#38
The UK has mediocre service Rubicund, that really isn't in dispute and Brits in general don't expect any better or generally know how to get any better service. An article (the start of this post) by a Brit on tipping therefore is hilarious. >>
frankly I've had no better [and sometimes worse] service in the US than I've had in the UK. ditto in Europe. I am not convinced that service in the US is noticeably better than that elsewhere.
When I have got excellent service it has been more about making a personal connection with the person involved than due to any financial reward. That's what keeps me going back to certain places, not the knowledge that if I give them a £20, I'm going to get preferential treatment.
frankly I've had no better [and sometimes worse] service in the US than I've had in the UK. ditto in Europe. I am not convinced that service in the US is noticeably better than that elsewhere.
When I have got excellent service it has been more about making a personal connection with the person involved than due to any financial reward. That's what keeps me going back to certain places, not the knowledge that if I give them a £20, I'm going to get preferential treatment.
Sep 30th, 2014, 11:21 AM
#39
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>>"I order, get food, eat and pay. Is it how many times they ask if everything's OK, or clear plates promptly? That happens anyway. Or is it the annoying constant topping up of my wine or water glass, to sell more wine or impress how great a server they are?", you are indicating two things. Your expectations are not high and you think if they do more than the minimum they are trying to sell more wine or impress you. "
I'd be thinking they're being a damn nuisance. That's not low expectations, just different ones.
I'd be thinking they're being a damn nuisance. That's not low expectations, just different ones.
