patriciatbrogan

We are thinking of spending a 3 week holiday in China this Christmas.
We have been there before in 2009, mainly in the south, Yangshuo, Kunming, Tiger Leaping Gorge etc
My question is - is it safe to travel there these days? One hears of westerners disappearing with this new regime.

I would appreciate your thooughts

patriciatbrogan

thoughts

LAX_Esq

New regime? It's been the same regime since 1949; they're just more or less brutal depending on the year. The US State Dept travel advisory is pretty damning about arbitrary detentions: https://travel.state.gov/content/tra...-advisory.html But there are plenty of reports on travel forums from recent tourists who have had no problems, and most of these reported arbitrary detentions seem to be people other than regular white Western bona fide tourists who aren't traveling for political/religious reasons. Normal tourists are probably fine.

CanadaChinaTraveller

Unless you are a spy or a former Chinese citizen wanted for bribery, nobody cares about you and you'll be perfectly fine. Same as in 2009.
The only things that you need to worry about is the payment system that has gone completely electronic making it somewhat combersome for tourists.

patriciatbrogan

Thanks CanadaChinaTraveller,

What do you mean by paying "electronically"? Does that mean I can't use my credit card?

stoffelstittl0061

You can use a credit card, but most payments are made using WeChat and Alipay, and credit cards are only available in larger shops. Of course you can also use cash

patriciatbrogan

Thanks stoffel, how easy is to get access to WeChat and Alipay for a foreigner, we won't have our mobile phones active there as it's too expensive, can we get a cheap local simcard (like we were able to when we travelled in Egypt)?

LAX_Esq

I'm not so sure this is right. There are reports where people say tourist sites and restaurants only accept electronic app payments, not cash. Someone more knowledgeable can verify but this strikes me as wrong.

patriciatbrogan

Yes BUT how easy is to get access to WeChat and Alipay for a foreigner, we won't have our mobile phones active there as it's too expensive, can we get a cheap local simcard (like we were able to when we travelled in Egypt)?

Can anyone help please

progol

Check out Trip Advisor; there is a very lengthy post on the China Forum detailing the steps needed to sign up for the apps, how to use them as well as other practical information:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopi...ors-China.html

thursdaysd

Check whether T-Mobile's international coverage includes China. Provided you have an unlocked phone you can sign up for just one month.

temppeternh

WeChat and Alipay are simply apps you download to your phone in the same way as any other app. If you want to use these, do it before leaving for China. I avoid WeChat for its known large backdoor to let the Chinese government upload anything it likes, but doubtless Alipay is no different. Alipay is easily connected to a foreign credit card, but I found, travelling this year, that Visa International was the problem every time I tried to use it, interfering with the Alipay transaction and demanding that I enter a code that it would send to my home phone, a third of the world away.

I don't maintain an active domestic mobile number, but if you do, then that may not be a problem, if you use a virtual SIM, and thus retain your usual number. This is now the best way to go in China as Chinese SIMs cannot be purchased over the counter any more save by those with Chinese bank accounts and not without full security verification.

There are many alternatives, but a I used a pan-Asia SIM from Airalo (another app you download in the normal way). These are fiddly to set up, but when installed give you full Internet data services for a set period/data volume, and may be topped up. There is no voice calling however, except VOIP (Skype, WhatsApp, Facetime, etc.) Another benefit (for now, at least) is that the Internet sees you as being in Singapore, so there's no need to use a VPN as you can see the whole of the Internet anyway. (Much of what you may commonly use, from mapping to social media to Western publications, is otherwise blocked.) I also found the pan-Asia SIM to switch seamlessly between Hong Kong (still a separate phone system), China, Laos, Thailand, and Japan as I travelled.

I only came across two occasions where cash was a problem: one in paying for an (electric) taxi ride, and the other in buying a coffee at a Starbucks-wannabe (actually rather better) in a small town in Guangxi. In each case cash was acceptable if I had the exact change. No one wants to turn away money. Spend the ¥100 notes the ATMs give you at places big enough to routinely keep large stores of cash--even ask them to be sure to give you small notes in change--and horde those notes. If Alipay doesn't work for any reason you'll still have little problem. Even automatic ticket machines for subway rides still take cash.

As for safety, it simply isn't an issue for ordinary leisure travellers, save for poisonous air pollution and insane driving. Theft by stealth in the usual culprit locations (crowded transport and termini) is a possibility. Violence is extremely unlikely and you can walk anywhere, any time. This isn't the US. No one has a gun.

I hardly glimpsed a single foreigner this year, and was treated with courtesy and helpfulness (more than nearly 40 years of travel and residence has led me to expect) except by officialdom, which proved itself more edgy and suspicious even than usual. If you're visiting major destinations your experience may differ.

The level of surveillance is beyond anything I've seen anywhere, and your visa application will now likely involve attending in person for a facial scan and fingerprinting (depending on nationality and location) unless you already have a multiple-entry visa. Several European nations have visa-free access at the moment, but no doubt the scanning occurs on arrival.

But really no one's interested in you, and for all its cameras more common then tree leaves the system lacks the capacity to deal with all the data it harvests. But they can find you if they need to (through hotel check-ins, ticket purchases--all of which require a passport, purchases with Alipay, facial recognitions cameras, etc.) and then backtrack to see where you've been. But you have to draw attention to yourself first.

If all you've been doing is looking at monuments and scenery there's no problem.

patriciatbrogan

Thanks temppeternh. I saw on another forum the suggestion to get a Hong Kong sim, would that be simpler to set up than an Airalo one, do you know? My old Samsung S10 Lite isn't compatible with eSims, unfortunately

temppeternh

If Hong Kong SIMs are still available fuss-free over the counter (they always used to be, but these days who knows? Probably someone else here) then it's just a matter of a physical swap, and the vendor will usually do it for you. Virtual SIMS are merely software, and your existing SIM is left in place, but as you say, it requires a more recent processor/OS to work.

As mentioned above, a Hong Kong SIM will not work in China, unless there have been very recent changes, which I think unlikely unless very strict identity measures at time of purchase to match the Mainland's have now been introduced. Hong Kongers crossing the border regularly certainly used to carry a phone with slots for two SIMs--one Mainland and one local.

I'm afraid you're going to have to go Internet-free beyond Hong Kong unless there's computer provision in the business centre of your hotel or you take a laptop. The former won't give you access to much you might want to see (foreign news sources, social media) and the latter will only do so if you install a VPN.

CanadaChinaTraveller

I have read recent reports of people getting a HK Sim and roaming perfectly well in China with full access to foreign sites. but getting this once you get there is a pain which is why eSims are the way to go now. Not a solution for you unfortunately.