Last look at 3 week Spain itinerary
#1
Original Poster
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Last look at 3 week Spain itinerary
I posted very similar itinerary some weeks ago, but would like one last opportunity for revision or suggestions.
I am traveling to Spain Oct 27 - Nov 17 for a milestone birthday. Solo woman traveler. Still employed full time, so trying for a pace that isn't going to leave me exhausted for a month when I get home. No 'Tuesday must be Toledo' sort of trip. Reasons to go is the history, art, religious sites, architecture and culture. I rent short let apartments if more than 2 nights in a place, otherwise a comfortable low cost pension type place. I am going to find the Spanish late night culture an adjustment, as I am an early bird - but I'll work on it. With the apartment, lunch will be eaten out, dinner most likely eaten in. Food culture is not so important.
Oct 27 - Arrive Granada from Ottawa - overnight flight via Madrid
Oct 28-30 - Granada, most likely a night and day visit to Alhambra, other city points of interest
Oct 31 - morning train to Cordoba - this is a busy travel time because of All Saint's Day. I'll try for a train ticket so travel is confirmed
Nov 1 - Cordoba - it seems it is a National Holiday, so will sites and restaurants be closed?
Nov 2 - Cordoba - late or mid afternoon train or bus to Seville
Nov 3-6 - Seville - sites and a day for a day trip to la Donana park for birdwatching
Nov 7 - Train to Toledo
Nov 8 - Toledo
Nov 9 - mid day train/bus to Madrid
Nov 10- 13 - Madrid - big 3 museums, retiro park - maybe day trip to Segovia or el Escorial
Nov 14 - early train to Barcelona
15 - 17 - moderniste focus, Gaudi, Catalan museum and the opera house
Nov 18 depart for Canada 11:45 a.m.
Are there any numbers of days I should change? Given that I am taking a day from Seville to birdwatch, should I try to add a day there from somewhere else? I wanted to visit Cordoba before Seville, as it seems to lose its lustre if seen after Seville. I also have to consider travel demands on Oct 31 & Nov 1. Can I be more strategic on my arrival or departure times for Toledo or Cordoba?
Thanks for any feedback.
I am traveling to Spain Oct 27 - Nov 17 for a milestone birthday. Solo woman traveler. Still employed full time, so trying for a pace that isn't going to leave me exhausted for a month when I get home. No 'Tuesday must be Toledo' sort of trip. Reasons to go is the history, art, religious sites, architecture and culture. I rent short let apartments if more than 2 nights in a place, otherwise a comfortable low cost pension type place. I am going to find the Spanish late night culture an adjustment, as I am an early bird - but I'll work on it. With the apartment, lunch will be eaten out, dinner most likely eaten in. Food culture is not so important.
Oct 27 - Arrive Granada from Ottawa - overnight flight via Madrid
Oct 28-30 - Granada, most likely a night and day visit to Alhambra, other city points of interest
Oct 31 - morning train to Cordoba - this is a busy travel time because of All Saint's Day. I'll try for a train ticket so travel is confirmed
Nov 1 - Cordoba - it seems it is a National Holiday, so will sites and restaurants be closed?
Nov 2 - Cordoba - late or mid afternoon train or bus to Seville
Nov 3-6 - Seville - sites and a day for a day trip to la Donana park for birdwatching
Nov 7 - Train to Toledo
Nov 8 - Toledo
Nov 9 - mid day train/bus to Madrid
Nov 10- 13 - Madrid - big 3 museums, retiro park - maybe day trip to Segovia or el Escorial
Nov 14 - early train to Barcelona
15 - 17 - moderniste focus, Gaudi, Catalan museum and the opera house
Nov 18 depart for Canada 11:45 a.m.
Are there any numbers of days I should change? Given that I am taking a day from Seville to birdwatch, should I try to add a day there from somewhere else? I wanted to visit Cordoba before Seville, as it seems to lose its lustre if seen after Seville. I also have to consider travel demands on Oct 31 & Nov 1. Can I be more strategic on my arrival or departure times for Toledo or Cordoba?
Thanks for any feedback.
#2

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,266
Likes: 0
we are doing pretty much the same trip in June though in a slightly different order (missing Toledo but taking some time in the countryside) I shall let you know via trip report how it all works. sounds like a wonderful journey you have planned
#3
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,145
Likes: 0
There is still no direct train from Granada to Córdoba. The quickest connection is early afternoon, Bus/AVE train. The ALSA bus takes just under 3 hours. I would go with this option first.
Nov. 1 is All Saints’ Day (All Hallows). Everything will be open.
Parque Nacional de Doñana is a rather large area, 1,300 sq km. We've seen part of the park from Sanlúcar de Barrameda, but you can also reach it from Huelva. You'll need to plan your day carefully. It will be a very long day. (www.andalucia.com/environment/protect/donana.htm)
There is no direct train from Sevilla to Toledo. You will have to go to Madrid and connect to Toledo.
With only three days in Madrid, I'd skip Segovia or El Escorial. There is enough in Madrid to keep you busy for days on end.
Nov. 1 is All Saints’ Day (All Hallows). Everything will be open.
Parque Nacional de Doñana is a rather large area, 1,300 sq km. We've seen part of the park from Sanlúcar de Barrameda, but you can also reach it from Huelva. You'll need to plan your day carefully. It will be a very long day. (www.andalucia.com/environment/protect/donana.htm)
There is no direct train from Sevilla to Toledo. You will have to go to Madrid and connect to Toledo.
With only three days in Madrid, I'd skip Segovia or El Escorial. There is enough in Madrid to keep you busy for days on end.
#4
Original Poster
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Thanks 'auramsgarden, for the anticipation of a trip report.Have a great time!
Thanks Robert2016 - I'd like to take the bus to Cordoba and call it my 'scenic country tour'.
Donana will be done at a hefty price tag as a private birding tour, so I expect a long day, but they can do all the logistics.
I was thinking to keep Toledo as a flexible stop so that if I lost interest, I could go to Madrid sooner. el Escorial or Segovia would be last minute planned day trips. Having no idea of the extent of the museums there, I realize time may not allow for everything.
So no real benefit to leave Granada a day earlier to give an extra day to Seville?
Thanks Robert2016 - I'd like to take the bus to Cordoba and call it my 'scenic country tour'.
Donana will be done at a hefty price tag as a private birding tour, so I expect a long day, but they can do all the logistics.
I was thinking to keep Toledo as a flexible stop so that if I lost interest, I could go to Madrid sooner. el Escorial or Segovia would be last minute planned day trips. Having no idea of the extent of the museums there, I realize time may not allow for everything.
So no real benefit to leave Granada a day earlier to give an extra day to Seville?
#5
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,038
Likes: 0
I would leave it as is. After your long trip from Ottawa to Granada, you may be really bushed. Give yourself time to recover there.
There is no train between Seville and Toledo. You must take one to Madrid and then another to Toledo.
There is no train between Seville and Toledo. You must take one to Madrid and then another to Toledo.
Trending Topics
#8
Original Poster
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
lauramsgarden, I have recently joined a bird forum on line and as it is global, I have a few names for Andalusia area. For best time and access I am looking for this one from Seville https://ecotonobirding.com/category/home/
I see they also have a good rating on TripAdvisor - if you credit those ratings.
I see they also have a good rating on TripAdvisor - if you credit those ratings.
#9
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 25,618
Likes: 0
While I’m sure this trip will be wonderful, I remain concerned – based on what you have told us of your interests on this and earlier threads – that you are not giving either Madrid OR Barcelona sufficient time.
Toledo is among Spain’s jewels, IMO. I could be wrong, but I find it difficult to believe that you would want to leave it early. But of course, that's an option...
As for timing of the museums: I spent 3 full days in Madrid’s museums (not just the big 3), starting from the time they opened until they closed, and planning so that I visited both the Prado and the Reine Sofia on days when they were open late. I had only a day for “other” things in Madrid. A substantial amount of my 2 full days in Toledo was spent in museums. Most of my 5 full days in Barcelona were either in museums or admiring the Modernisme sites. And FWIW, I could easily have spent even longer in any one of these places.
Hope that helps!
Toledo is among Spain’s jewels, IMO. I could be wrong, but I find it difficult to believe that you would want to leave it early. But of course, that's an option...
As for timing of the museums: I spent 3 full days in Madrid’s museums (not just the big 3), starting from the time they opened until they closed, and planning so that I visited both the Prado and the Reine Sofia on days when they were open late. I had only a day for “other” things in Madrid. A substantial amount of my 2 full days in Toledo was spent in museums. Most of my 5 full days in Barcelona were either in museums or admiring the Modernisme sites. And FWIW, I could easily have spent even longer in any one of these places.
Hope that helps!
#10
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,934
Likes: 0
If you plan to eat out at lunch, you'll experience one of the finest things of the Spanish food culture, the relaxed and very affordable three course Menu del día, the main meal of the day for most Spaniards. Where the locals go, you can expect to pay some 8-13€ with drinks included. Normally you can choose from some 3-4 starters, 3-4 main dishes and a couple of deserts. http://www.spainatyourpace.com/menu-...-menu-del-dia/
And Córdoba doesn't stand back to anything, just give it a little time and be sure to also visit the Roman Córdoba a few hundred meters North of the famous Mezquita. Some fabulous plazas up here - both small and large - and affordable and local atmosphere tabernas on almost every corner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyfGdpF55Uk&t=707s
And Córdoba doesn't stand back to anything, just give it a little time and be sure to also visit the Roman Córdoba a few hundred meters North of the famous Mezquita. Some fabulous plazas up here - both small and large - and affordable and local atmosphere tabernas on almost every corner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyfGdpF55Uk&t=707s
#11
Original Poster
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
KJA, thank you for your perspective on my itinerary. I realize that three weeks is a drop in the bucket to visit such a culturally rich country. You would be even more concerned when I was at one time considering to shorten this and dropping either Madrid or Barcelona ;-)
However, I reworked the budget to include them....even if only as a taster. Andalusia is what draws me primarily. I know I will love aspects of the two big cities; but I also know I am going to be getting tourist saturated by the last week and plan to only focus on a few aspects of what they have to offer. Realistically, they should be sole visits in their own right, and they are more easily accessible on direct flights from Canada than Seville is. If I fall in love with them, then I will return.
However, I reworked the budget to include them....even if only as a taster. Andalusia is what draws me primarily. I know I will love aspects of the two big cities; but I also know I am going to be getting tourist saturated by the last week and plan to only focus on a few aspects of what they have to offer. Realistically, they should be sole visits in their own right, and they are more easily accessible on direct flights from Canada than Seville is. If I fall in love with them, then I will return.
#12
Original Poster
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
kimhe, I do try to take the back roads and alleys in a place. I replace shopping with back street explorations, so will look for the Roman Cordoba. Also, thanks for the menu del dia tips. I think some aspects of Spain are going to be a challenge, I rarely take time out of the day to sit leisurely over lunch when travelling,and siesta is going to really change up my plans, but travel is about change. My three personal challenges this trip will be to embrace siesta, learn and enjoy the whole belly up to the bar for tapas, and experience flamenco...now, who do you think convinced me about that;-)?
#13
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,934
Likes: 0
Hehe, and you'll be fine with just a quick lunch in any place, but be aware of the lunch rituals going on around you. And many locals will also do as you suggest, and just have a quick bite. Then a great lunch deal is often to have the house soup or stew (sopa or cocido del día), usually delicious and it normally sets you back only some 4-5€. And perfectly agree with searching for the back roads and alleys, that has been a key element in most of my Spain travels. In fact I'm now writing a blog in Norwegian called Spanish backroads ;-)
And returning to flamenco, I think you will apperciate checking out the updated schedule for your cities on this site, here only real deal events - both small and large and mainly with local audiences - are listed: http://www.guiaflama.com/
And returning to flamenco, I think you will apperciate checking out the updated schedule for your cities on this site, here only real deal events - both small and large and mainly with local audiences - are listed: http://www.guiaflama.com/
#14
Original Poster
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Kimhe, I'll work at embracing the leisurely lunch some days. I loved having menu del dia in Ecuador with the workers at shared tables....though not so leisurely for them. Perhaps the 3 courses and wine will just lead to a nap and there - I've embraced siesta. Though I don't mind eating alone, long meals do drag when there isn't the companionship.
I did see I can research further 'Roman Cordoba' but is it the area with the Old Wall, Calle de cairuan (with the waterway as I call it?). somewhere there are floor carvings/mosaics - it was in the video, but I couldnt tell where to find those. I'm staying near Plaza Juda Levi, so should be close to it.
Good luck with the blog. I find even using apartments gets me off the main streets and with a more local glimpse of things - grocery shopping, photo store or shoe shop. In Paris it was a baking shop and my friend who lives in Normandy showed me the store for rat extermination - a window full of dead rats.
The flamenco I would really like to see is the young woman you discussed one time but she is now working outside of Spain. She was featured as even a young dancer - very modern. But I will see Flamenco in Seville, I think. Thanks for the link to current and the real deal events.
I did see I can research further 'Roman Cordoba' but is it the area with the Old Wall, Calle de cairuan (with the waterway as I call it?). somewhere there are floor carvings/mosaics - it was in the video, but I couldnt tell where to find those. I'm staying near Plaza Juda Levi, so should be close to it.
Good luck with the blog. I find even using apartments gets me off the main streets and with a more local glimpse of things - grocery shopping, photo store or shoe shop. In Paris it was a baking shop and my friend who lives in Normandy showed me the store for rat extermination - a window full of dead rats.
The flamenco I would really like to see is the young woman you discussed one time but she is now working outside of Spain. She was featured as even a young dancer - very modern. But I will see Flamenco in Seville, I think. Thanks for the link to current and the real deal events.
#15
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 25,618
Likes: 0
Actually, I have encouraged you to do exactly that -- drop Barcelona from this trip!
I understand the desire to fit more in; I just think that you will give up too much of both Madrid and Barcelona to fit them into this trip. Rather than skimming the surface and spending time getting from place to place, I choose to skip some places entirely, even if I am sure I would enjoy them. I’ve realized that if I can return to a region, the LAST thing that I am likely to want to do is spend my time re-tracing all that extra travel time so that I can go back and finally see the things I skipped the first time. In fact, I might end up not returning specifically because it would mean wasting so much time going from place to place!
-- which sort of defeats the purpose. Again, just something to consider....
I understand the desire to fit more in; I just think that you will give up too much of both Madrid and Barcelona to fit them into this trip. Rather than skimming the surface and spending time getting from place to place, I choose to skip some places entirely, even if I am sure I would enjoy them. I’ve realized that if I can return to a region, the LAST thing that I am likely to want to do is spend my time re-tracing all that extra travel time so that I can go back and finally see the things I skipped the first time. In fact, I might end up not returning specifically because it would mean wasting so much time going from place to place!
-- which sort of defeats the purpose. Again, just something to consider....
#16
Original Poster
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
One update - I decided to train to Seville from Granada and see Cordoba following - I promise, I won't compare it to Seville
This gives me Nov 1 as my birding day in Donana (I've confirmed this) as it seems there will be some things closed that day - as it is a National Holiday. So I;m pretty happy with the plans. Thanks.
This gives me Nov 1 as my birding day in Donana (I've confirmed this) as it seems there will be some things closed that day - as it is a National Holiday. So I;m pretty happy with the plans. Thanks.
#17
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,934
Likes: 0
Regarding "Roman Córdoba", the Plaza de las Tendillas, the Roman temple ruins and Plaza de la Corredera area is wonderful. Plaza Juda Levi is 250 meters from Plaza de las Tendillas and Plaza de la Corredera:
https://www.lonelyplanet.com/spain/c.../484234/360732
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_...f_C%C3%B3rdoba
And when it comes to flamenco and "the young woman", we're talking about Rocío Molina. She's now stirring a frenzy with her latest Caído del Cielo (Fallen from heaven) both in Spain and abroad. Her dates for the fall is not set yet, but if you can see her along your route, I strongly recommend to do so.
The most important flamenco magazine: "Collective orgasm in Amsterdam with Rocío Molina's flamenco": https://www.deflamenco.com/revista/r...lamenco-1.html
Portrait in The Guardian: "Rocío Molina - flamenco and beyond": https://www.theguardian.com/stage/20...-bosque-ardora
Trailer to Caída del cielo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RaWmw6I3NY
https://www.lonelyplanet.com/spain/c.../484234/360732
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_...f_C%C3%B3rdoba
And when it comes to flamenco and "the young woman", we're talking about Rocío Molina. She's now stirring a frenzy with her latest Caído del Cielo (Fallen from heaven) both in Spain and abroad. Her dates for the fall is not set yet, but if you can see her along your route, I strongly recommend to do so.
The most important flamenco magazine: "Collective orgasm in Amsterdam with Rocío Molina's flamenco": https://www.deflamenco.com/revista/r...lamenco-1.html
Portrait in The Guardian: "Rocío Molina - flamenco and beyond": https://www.theguardian.com/stage/20...-bosque-ardora
Trailer to Caída del cielo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RaWmw6I3NY
#19
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,112
Likes: 0
All in all, I think you're itinerary is pretty good. I had 20 days in Spain during Semana Santa in 2015. Saw every city you are planning plus did a day trip to Segovia. It's always a trade off but I felt my pace was right for me.
In hindsight, the one city I shortchanged a bit was Toledo. I had only one night, so even arriving there early in the morning, I never really had a full day. While planning my return trip to Northern Spain for next year, I realized how much I missed in Toledo and how I need to probably give it 3 nights next time in order to give me 2 full days. I would take one night away from Cordoba. I'm probably in the minority here but I was not enamored with Cordoba. Yes, the Mezquita/Cathedrale is pretty incredible but the rest of the town didn't do much for me. I did it as a day trip from Sevilla (my favorite city in Spain, btw--quintessential Spain IMHO) so perhaps it suffered a bit by comparison as you alluded to.
I'd try to add a night to Toledo.
In hindsight, the one city I shortchanged a bit was Toledo. I had only one night, so even arriving there early in the morning, I never really had a full day. While planning my return trip to Northern Spain for next year, I realized how much I missed in Toledo and how I need to probably give it 3 nights next time in order to give me 2 full days. I would take one night away from Cordoba. I'm probably in the minority here but I was not enamored with Cordoba. Yes, the Mezquita/Cathedrale is pretty incredible but the rest of the town didn't do much for me. I did it as a day trip from Sevilla (my favorite city in Spain, btw--quintessential Spain IMHO) so perhaps it suffered a bit by comparison as you alluded to.
I'd try to add a night to Toledo.
#20
Original Poster
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
Thanks for your comments Minnbeef. I think I will stick with my two nights and give Cordoba a chance. I can leave early, however, in order to gice Toledo a bit more time. Also, I don't necessarily have to rush to Madrid first thing. That might get me a complete 48 hours. If I really love Toledo, the nice thing is that it is a short train ride from Madrid and I could go back for a day trip. I'll keep it in mind.


