amsdon

Hi Fodorites! I am finally posting our upcoming December Spain trip plans.

Ekscrunchy asked why I was so silent for s long? Lo siento amiga. Life intervened again.
Well mainly it was because my doggone knee replacement did not take place as planned (twice) so DH & I will consequently be traveling slowly now.
I elegantly with a cane. I was re-reading posts in consideration of this temporary walking issue to assure the most central hotels and made a couple of changes on the original plan to slow things down. (Elimination of Cordoba & Malaga, both which we have visited briefly but will revisit another time)

We have booked many suggested & very centrally located hotels with elevators thanks to the gracious Maribel Philip & many of you. All hotels are booked with free cancellation and most with breakfast. Airfare is booked.

RE the actual route & timing in each area; at first the route may not make sense to everyone.
Our itinerary and timing in each of the 12 cities is in large part designed to coordinate time & visits with some of the flamenco artists I have met over the years.
( Not easy since their schedules & locations fluctuate often ). Had this not been the case I'm sure we may have routed differently.

Equally important is the loop up to Zamora in the last third of the trip before heading back to Madrid. We plan to meet my second cousins for the very first time ever in Carbajales de Alba (Zamora). It will be nippy and or rainy but that's ok. My husband and I have been living (roasting) in Scottsdale Arizona for the last 3 years (hitting 113 CONSECUTIVE days over 100 degrees this year) We will be happy for cold temps. DH will retire in December, we will leave AZ and resettle in our home in Southern California after this special trip which is a retirement, anniversary & family reunion trip. But at this point we are going to go with the flow.
We booked RENFE Mad to Granada. The rest of transportation is pending. We are strugglingt with this part.cars versus train & bus
We have not been to Spain for over ten years.

45-night Itinerary - 12 cities December 24, 2024 to February 7, 2025

Depart LAX LOS ANGELES 1/23/24

1. Madrid (7 nights) Catalonia las Cortes arrive 12/24/25

2. Granada (4 nights) Aurea Catedral 12/31

3. Jerez (6 nights) - Eurostars Asta Regia 1/4

4. Cadiz (3 nights) - Hotel Argantonio 1/10

5. Vejer de la Frontera (3 nights) Hotel Plaza 18 arrive Jan 13

6. Sevilla (5 nights ) H10 Casa de la Plata 1/16

7. Salamanca (3 nights) Hotel Hospes San Esteban 1/21 ( get rental car here ? not sure )

8. Zamora (3 nights) Corazon de Zamora. 1/24

9. ONE Flex day & night 1/27 & may extend Zamora OR add to Leon

10. Leon (2 nights) Hotel My Palace Leon 1/28

11. Burgos (2 nights) - AC Hotel Burgos 1/30 ( return rental car & take train to Madrid)

12. Mad (6 nights) Catalonia Las Cortes 2/1 to 2/7

Depart 2/7 Madrid

Feel free to comment
BTW AMSDON stands for Ana Maria & Don

kja

I see that you are skipping Cordoba intentionally. What about Toledo?
FWIW, I would have found 1 winter day insufficient for Leon. YMMV.

amsdon

Thanks KJA. Did you say one is insufficient for Leon?
At the moment I have 2 nights planned there with a flex and I that maybe added depending on how things go with my newly acquainted family Zamora.

I've been to Toledo twice And yes I would actually love to go back and spend several days there. But as I mentioned my timing was worked around my flamenco
Friends. I'm trying to get to the areas where they are during the time of year that they are most likely to be home ( Madrid , Jerez & Cadiz) It's the basic structure and I will tweak it on the go if necessary but I do not plan to go Toledo this time though I absolutely love that city. Next time for sure.

kja

For Leon -- IMO, two nights would only be sufficient if it meant 2 days,. Two nights rarely yield 2 days, instead, generally 2 nights gives you one day. So I'd want to add that "flex" night to Leon. But you need to do some research on what your options are and decide what amount of time YOU want there.

amsdon

I plan to go with a flow at that particular point of the trip.No amount of additional research is going to predict what will happen when we meet my family for the first time in Zamora. I was happy when Leon and Burgos were suggested and I'm glad that we will have a car at that point to have some flexibility.

ekscrunchy

I, for one, am SO HAPPY you are back!
And now we are all getting to the place where we need canes and all that.....who would have thunk it?
One tip I will give you is to request a wheelchair at the airports; do this when you buy your tickets. You have NO IDEA how much that helps!

Your trip sounds fantastic! I can help a lot with Vejer, I think, although I do not stay IN the town (it is hilly, but you know that). I think Vejer is one of the relatively undiscovered places left in Spain, or at least undiscovered by Americans. I cannot say this more strongly: RENT A CAR, at least for the Vejer part. Do you really want to be schlepping around with suitcases, and a cane, on buses?
There is no train to Vejer, as you know.....

I am "all ears" to read about your plans and so glad to see you here again!!!


I've never been to Leon and would love to go someday soon. There are so many interesting places within easy reach of Madrid..... When you read about Leon, also read about Astorga, with its Gaudi architecture and its very local, Maragato, cuisine and culture. I'd never heard of the Maragatos before we spent a night in Astorga.




https://turismoastorga.es/1229-2/

ekscrunchy

Amsdon, I should not be posting this, but look at the difference between Greece in 2005 (did not like that trip; only trip I took that I felt that way)



And last month, in Sicily:


80 year old man with cane on Salina, with cat

Same man, with me, 18 years ago, on Santorini

amsdon

Eskscrunchita Thank You. I'll admit there are times when I forget that I'm not the only person with a cane.
It is new. I appreciate your sharing this. You can bet my trip report will be from the point of view of accessibility which I know will be completely different in Spain.
Thank you also for the tips I have resolved that I will need to get the assist when flying. Also I remember you saying something about requesting assistance on the train? I will be doing that as well because DH is not in Olympian form either.
I was just about to read your report again specifically regarding the transportation to Vejer. Maribel and Philip recommended the accommodations and we are very excited about staying at th at specific charming hotel despite hills. I know you had a private car at 1 point before you rented the car. Do you mind telling again? I don't know that we'd be driving around at much during our couple days in Vejer but we definitely will be from Jerez or Cadiz.
You saw my big disclaimer? In case anyone is wondering why on earth we chose to travel from Madrid to Granada on New Year's Eve, It is because
Granada born flamenco dancer Ivan Vargas won't be performing in Granada after all ( As I had assumed)
Instead he starts his stent on December 30th in Madrid along with his uncle Andres Maya. Both from the famous Granada Flamenco legacy. 🥰
So we extended our time in Madrid to make sure I was able to see him at least once. Here's a little informal video that they did of the 2 of them in a cueva owned by their family. It is ironic that after all this I won't be seeing him in his hometown. But I am keeping everything very light and positive and happy that I am taking this trip so thus I am going to go with the flamenco flow.

ekscrunchy

Ok, but I will respond later in more detail"

First trip to Vejer I spent three wonderful days, with no car, in Jerez.

Took taxi to airport and rented the car. FISRT TIME I EVER DROVE ALONE IN EUROPE!!
All perfect.
Staying in Vejer itself means driving up into the actual town and unloading luggage and parking..Maribel will know all this, but Vejer does mean a lot of walking. I drove there once from my hotel outside, and had a misadventure when I ran into schoolchildren leaving classes and had to be escorted down the hill gvby the police. But they were lovely and all ended well.


Next year, I spend 5 nights in Cordoba and then had driver take me to Jerez airport and then drove to my hotel on the flats outside the town.

From that area it is easy to drive around to Zahara, etc.......I am now booked for two weeks in March. I am now less scared of driving up to Vejer itself.....but there are so many places to eat and discover scenery, that (ask Maribel) maybe you might be better staying OUTSIDE Vejer, like I do....

I like driving, very easy, to Barbate, to Bolonia, and next time I will go to Medina Sidonia....with a car this is SIMPLE, even for me...

See what you think....driving INSIDE Vejer is a problem, but if you can park your car and walk around there..ok...or else, look at a hotel BELOW the town...let Maribel be your guide!

amsdon

Yes I have been heeding Maribel and Phillip's advice & all but a one of our booked hotels are their recommendations. ( In Zamora It's an apartmento turistico)
DH and I really want to stay at the recomended Plaza 18 in Vejer. I realize some of the hills & slopes around that hotel down to the center of the Vejer but I think we should be ok. We are only there 2 days 3 nights and It was intended to be a bit of a splurge and
more of a wellness retreat & " relax" and less sightseeing those couple of days.
It might be easier for us to just do the exploring with car from Jerez or Cadiz where we will be much longer. So we were thinking of renting the car there has needed a couple of days here and there depending on the festivities . As you know it is the week of Epiphany & Los Reyes Magos .
fFom your great report I recall that parking in Vejer is also a big challenge? no?

So did I get it right you rented a car at the Jerez airport?
Here's the hotel for everyone
https://plaza18vejer.com/

Maribel

Hi amsdon,
Please check your email. Just finished a looooooong attachment with my (long winded, as usual) thoughts on your itinerary (too long to post here) and especially regarding the Vejer issue and other quandries.

Hope you find it helpful!
Regards,
Maribel

car

A very interesting trip to central Spain.Just two ideas.
I like Zamora , but three nights I find it too much.
Have you consider Caceres and Trujillo. This two cities in Extremadura are not that well connected but really extraordinary .

Have a nice trip

Maribel

Hi amsdon,
Where will Iván Vargas be performing in Madrid? We want to see him, but I can't find the venue.
We have tickets for Vicente Amigo and Rocío Molina in late October, as part of the Suma Flamenca 2024.

amsdon

Hi Maribel,
Ivan Vargas will be performing at the very small tablao de la Carmela in Madrid beginning 12/30
https://tablaolacarmela.com/artistas/

I have always wanted to see his uncle who apparently runs the artistic end of that tablao. I might have mentioned that they are all descendants of the famous Granada flamenco legacy the Maya family.
We will go on that very 1st day because there is no other choice. ( You are welcome to join us) I preferred to see Ivan in his home environment of Granada , but he has informed me that he will be in Madrid & Mexico.
He will also participate at the festival in Jerez
but I don't know if he will have a performance or is simply teaching master classes.

I know the food at Tablao de la Carmela ( and at ANY tablao) is not the highlight and always a gamble.
I see from the marketing information the presentation may be a little gimmicky for tourists, but they are fine (tablao ) dancers.
I also have my fingers crossed for the time that we are in Madrid that we can see Eduardo Guerrero,
at Corral de la Morería Also the exquisite Daniel Lopez Ramos has a partner that manages another small tablao. I have forgotten the name but I will let you know on the slim chance that he actually performs there. Daniel is
Currently a dancer with the Antonio Najarro Company And sometimes with Manuel Liñan.

As you can see I will gladly dine on mediocre food in a Tablao In order to see particular performers. 😉
Thank you for your tip about the Maestranza I will definitely put that on my list .

01 last question I see that yesterday or recently there was a big show in Plaza Mayor!! Were you able to see it?

Maribel

I would love to join you at the Corral de la Morería (and it also has great food!) or another tablao just for the dancing.
I see Eduardo Guerrero is going to perform at El Corral from Oct. 22-27, but maybe he'll be there again in Dec.

No, we didn't go into the city for the parade or the Plaza Mayor performances, sadly, because it was pouring rain. It really did rain, rain, rain on the (military) parade and Queen Letizia got soaking wet.

amsdon

Sounds great Maribel.
It's good to know that the food at Corral de la Moreria is good! I haven't been there for many years and did not know that.

It doesn't have to be Eduardo G specifically but it would be great if it were. As you know any flamenco performing at Corral de la Moreria is of a higher caliber. But I'm scoping out who is going to be where as we approach those December dates. EXCITING!!!

I've ALSO adjusted the itinerary taking into consideration feedback from KJA, Ekscruncy & you.
We have completely eliminated Vejer this trip & simply adding the three nights to Cadiz. We will explore surrounding areas from Cádiz. Besides the concerns about my ability to walk & deal with the hills or steps in Vejer, it occurred to me that it was not worth risking a potential strain or sprain which would really put a damper on the rest of the trip. I'm actually glad to have more time in Cadiz proper. Beautiful Vejer will wait for next time.
Additionally we have decided to stay at the 4 star Aurea Casa Palacio Sagasta as Maribel suggested.
( Instead of the 2 star Argantonio)
Aurea was a good deal since we signed up for the discount when we booked Granada Aurea Catedral.
It looks like a beautiful hotel!

Maribel

Let's see if we can do Corral de la Morería while you´re here the first go-round. I've known it for a long, long, long time, as parents and I went when I was a kid just to see Lucero Tena. Now David García from the Basque Country is in charge of the kitchen.

I'm sorry that you won't be able to see lovely Vejer (but you will next time), but as eks and I mentioned, it's extremely hilly, a constant up and down, and El Califa (where Plaza 18 sits within) is a Moorish maze. It's really not worth risking a potential mishap, as you say.

The Aurea hotels are the top tier of Eurostars and I'm sure you'll enjoy it, as I'm confident you'll enjoy the Aurea in Granada.

While you're in Cádiz, an easy 30-minute catamaran ride would be over to El Puerto de Santa Maria (it doesn't run when the bay waters are too choppy). No car needed. We did that the last time, just to wander around this lovely town, and have tapas inside the Bodegas Osborne at their Toro Tapas (an easy walk from the dock).
The dock is not far from the train station. Here's the link to the schedule.

amsdon

Thank you Maribel! I think it will work out even better to tell you the truth. We will definitely fo as you suggest it sounds fun. I have a few other acquaintances around Cadiz that are performers so we're bound to find something else in the flamenco land.

By the way you know Eduardo Guerrero is from Jerez right? While some of my friends have a problem with his more modern concepts I have seen him dance Puro style and he is incredible.

What a treat for you to have seen Lucero Tena!
My first castanets were Lucero Tena brand.
And I also have the LP from one of her performances at Corral De La Moreria. I heard she lives in the Pasadena area in California by the way. I should try to get her autograph on the album ( A friend is a teacher at a private school where one of her grandchildren attend) I was blown away!!

Maribel

Lucero Tena was the greatest artist ever with castañuelas! And she worked with great orchestral directors like Rafael Frühbeck de Burgos, who was the director of the National Spanish Orchestra when I was a mere kid.
It would be really great to get her autograph!