Cities w/Greatest Number & Variety of Jobs in a Concentrated Area?
Jul 29th, 2003, 05:11 PM
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Cities w/Greatest Number & Variety of Jobs in a Concentrated Area?
Hi All,
Would love to hear your opinion re: "Which U.S. Cities offer the greatest number and variety of jobs in a concentrated area, combined with a mild climate?"
Must make a decision and move soon! My gratitude to all who reply! Thank you!
zanie
Would love to hear your opinion re: "Which U.S. Cities offer the greatest number and variety of jobs in a concentrated area, combined with a mild climate?"
Must make a decision and move soon! My gratitude to all who reply! Thank you!
zanie
Jul 29th, 2003, 05:42 PM
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Hi Anonymous,
To answer your question; "How many different jobs do you need?", I realize now that the phraseology of my original post might have some wondering the same thing. So allow me to elaborate on my situation:
I have lived in the corporate jungle long enough to know that it isn't and never will be my path to either economic viability or fulfillment. I have come to recognize that, on the other hand, I have some creative talents which could support and fulfill me very well indeed but they'll take years to develop to the point of generating an income.
Meanwhile, I have reached the point where I just can't stomach most conventional jobs and their related circumstances. This is no longer a voluntary choice. It is an involuntary reaction that I can no longer control and one which threatens my very survival.
So, my solution is to move to a place where hopefully, there will be either an abundance of interesting and unusual jobs, which may fit my temperament and personality or at the very least, a place where there are enough jobs that if I'm not able to tolerate one, I'll be able to pick up another with relative ease. Ideally, the city I wind up in would combine both of these characteristics.
My life strategy is to live for experience rather than an abundance of security.
Any advice and/or insights are very welcome.
zanie
To answer your question; "How many different jobs do you need?", I realize now that the phraseology of my original post might have some wondering the same thing. So allow me to elaborate on my situation:
I have lived in the corporate jungle long enough to know that it isn't and never will be my path to either economic viability or fulfillment. I have come to recognize that, on the other hand, I have some creative talents which could support and fulfill me very well indeed but they'll take years to develop to the point of generating an income.
Meanwhile, I have reached the point where I just can't stomach most conventional jobs and their related circumstances. This is no longer a voluntary choice. It is an involuntary reaction that I can no longer control and one which threatens my very survival.
So, my solution is to move to a place where hopefully, there will be either an abundance of interesting and unusual jobs, which may fit my temperament and personality or at the very least, a place where there are enough jobs that if I'm not able to tolerate one, I'll be able to pick up another with relative ease. Ideally, the city I wind up in would combine both of these characteristics.
My life strategy is to live for experience rather than an abundance of security.
Any advice and/or insights are very welcome.
zanie
Jul 29th, 2003, 05:49 PM
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I see: mild climate, so we rule out the Northeast, deep south, midwest. Also variety of jobs, so we rule out places heavily dependent on a single industry. I think I hear California calling you!
Having dropped out of the corporate rat race ten years ago, myself, after missing just too much of my kids' early years, I can sympathize completely. Good luck!
Having dropped out of the corporate rat race ten years ago, myself, after missing just too much of my kids' early years, I can sympathize completely. Good luck!
Jul 29th, 2003, 05:51 PM
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zanie, this has to be one of the more thought-provoking posts in awhile. As you may know, the ideas you are expressing are part of a well-recognized socio-economic trend and there is a book that discusses it very well:
"The Rise of the Creative Class" by Richard Florida.
I would tell you more, but your treatise makes think you may have already read it.
"The Rise of the Creative Class" by Richard Florida.
I would tell you more, but your treatise makes think you may have already read it.
Jul 29th, 2003, 05:55 PM
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Oops. Looks like you posted a serious reply before mine got in.
Well, given the facts you've reported, I'd suggest you seek a liberal, young-ish, progressive, growth area with an artsy bent.
Options:
Portland
Santa Fe
Boulder
Bay Area
San Diego
San Antonio
Austin
Job situations in some aren't overly rosy right now (Austin, Bay Area) but these are places that will be bouncing back fast when the economy warms.
Hope you find your niche.
Well, given the facts you've reported, I'd suggest you seek a liberal, young-ish, progressive, growth area with an artsy bent.
Options:
Portland
Santa Fe
Boulder
Bay Area
San Diego
San Antonio
Austin
Job situations in some aren't overly rosy right now (Austin, Bay Area) but these are places that will be bouncing back fast when the economy warms.
Hope you find your niche.
Jul 29th, 2003, 05:59 PM
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Hi TedTurner,
Well yes, actually I am fascinated with the life and story of Frank Abagnale Jr. but prefer if possible not to have to resort to a life of crime.
Yes, there are some areas of work I prefer and while I have the native ability, I do not have the educational/experiential credentials to attain them and no resources to bridge that gap. That is why I am interested in pursuing a multiplicity of jobs to support myself while I pursue my art.
Though some may be tempted to judge me, I remind you that all of us have some area of our lives in which we are challenged.
Anonymous, Thank you for your helpful and sincere reply. Actually, I prefer warm climates, so I would not rule out the deep South. However, I've begun to conclude too, that California might be most promising. Thanks again.
zanie
Well yes, actually I am fascinated with the life and story of Frank Abagnale Jr. but prefer if possible not to have to resort to a life of crime.
Yes, there are some areas of work I prefer and while I have the native ability, I do not have the educational/experiential credentials to attain them and no resources to bridge that gap. That is why I am interested in pursuing a multiplicity of jobs to support myself while I pursue my art.
Though some may be tempted to judge me, I remind you that all of us have some area of our lives in which we are challenged.
Anonymous, Thank you for your helpful and sincere reply. Actually, I prefer warm climates, so I would not rule out the deep South. However, I've begun to conclude too, that California might be most promising. Thanks again.
zanie
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Jul 29th, 2003, 06:41 PM
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I'm reading Florida's book, and it would tell you places such as San Francisco, Boston, the DC/Northern Virginia area, Austin, or Seattle. I would avoid SF because of the high number of underemployed workers there, but its climate seems to be exactly what you're looking for. I've been told Seattle's winters aren't too harsh, but the frequent rain is a minus in my mind. Austin is the place I would go, but that is a matter of taste. The summer can be hot, but Town Lake and other Hill Country natural amenities can make it bearable. Other options:
San Diego
Raleigh/Durham
Dallas
Denver
Kansas City
San Diego
Raleigh/Durham
Dallas
Denver
Kansas City
Jul 29th, 2003, 06:50 PM
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Flyboy, I've not read the book you mentioned yet but did visit a website with a similar name with some useful resource info. Thanks for your reply. I will definitely have to check out that book!
I would very much like to be living in an area where this trend of which we spoke has begun to catch on or at the very least, is not regarded as an aberration so here again, I'm thinking; California. The cost of living is a daunting obstacle but a chance at fulfillment would be worth the sacrifices involved. The nuts and bolts of such a transition would be the greatest challenge.
GoTravel, thanks for your suggestions of promising industries. I've been as far as I want to go in retail but am open to new ideas and reasonably flexible.
TedTurner, thanks for the thoughtful reply re: possible locales. SF is my top choice and I would think that the large job base would offset any temporary economic turndown. I like San Antonio for the low cost of living, and easy commutes but don't know that there would be that many different types of jobs there. The others seem like good choices but too small to have the number and variety of jobs I seek, except San Diego, where traffic is a challenge.
Thanks again to all
zanie
I would very much like to be living in an area where this trend of which we spoke has begun to catch on or at the very least, is not regarded as an aberration so here again, I'm thinking; California. The cost of living is a daunting obstacle but a chance at fulfillment would be worth the sacrifices involved. The nuts and bolts of such a transition would be the greatest challenge.
GoTravel, thanks for your suggestions of promising industries. I've been as far as I want to go in retail but am open to new ideas and reasonably flexible.
TedTurner, thanks for the thoughtful reply re: possible locales. SF is my top choice and I would think that the large job base would offset any temporary economic turndown. I like San Antonio for the low cost of living, and easy commutes but don't know that there would be that many different types of jobs there. The others seem like good choices but too small to have the number and variety of jobs I seek, except San Diego, where traffic is a challenge.
Thanks again to all
zanie
Jul 29th, 2003, 10:22 PM
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Portland (OR) is a great town, but the employment outlook there is terrible, unless you happen to be a nurse or allied health professional. We have friends, well-educated, hard workers, who are either hanging on to their jobs by the skin of their teeth or are unemployed. One good friend, a former IT professional, is now working at Costco and was lucky to get the job...he was hired about 9 months ago and the store has since been flooded with applications from unemployed white collar AND blue collar workers.
Jul 29th, 2003, 10:38 PM
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WAre you only looking at large metropolitan areas? If you can squeeze in consideration of a small town, check out Ashland OR, home of the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. It has a university, lots of theater, and has a climate like N. California. It's a small town equidistant between Portland and SF. Alas, it is expensive, but if you could find a place to live, there'd be plenty of offbeat activities and artsy, dedicated people.
Jul 30th, 2003, 12:01 AM
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Please, Seattle doesn't rain nearly as much as people seem to think it does. Yes we have wet winters, but often its misting or drizzling, not pouring. People who think it rains here all the time have obivously never been here.
Jul 30th, 2003, 06:04 AM
#14
Sounds like L.A. to me. Plenty of choice and diversity when the population's around 15 million.
The size of the region also allows you to find districts or neighborhoods with virtually any type of weather, society, economy, or job base. If you add San Diego, which is virtually contiguous, the choices expand even further.
The size of the region also allows you to find districts or neighborhoods with virtually any type of weather, society, economy, or job base. If you add San Diego, which is virtually contiguous, the choices expand even further.
Jul 30th, 2003, 05:55 PM
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Hello Fodorites! Thank you for all the help with my search!
I was rushed in some of my replies last night and see now that my search parameters need some further clarification.
I think that TedTurner was right on target when he suggested liberal, progressive, growth areas with an "artsy-bent", or at least, such is my preference. I am an independent thinker and really need to live in a place where I'm not persecuted for expressing my opinions. However, if the other factors I mentioned are promising, I would consider areas that are challenging in that regard.
I'm thinking that I can't go too far wrong choosing a huge metropolitan area, for though the economy, in general may fluctuate, the large job base remains constant. Please let me know if I'm wrong about that.
I see lots of recommendations for San Diego, which is near the top of my current short list. However, my concerns about San Diego are the cost of living, air pollution, and traffic. None of these problems alone would be enough to keep me away but facing all three is daunting. Traffic in particular, is a significant obstacle as it is my understanding that San Diegan commercial geography consists of pockets of various industries located at widespread locations throughout the area. I really need a metro area where I could live in a central location and have relatively easy access to most of the job base.
Los Angeles is another place I see recommended here, which is also on my short list. Yes, I know that the traffic, pollution, and cost of living are probably even worse here. However, I'm more optimistic about finding the job base I need in reasonably close proximity to a centralized location in the L.A. metro area. Los Angeles residents, please give me your opinion.
Now, San Antonio has always interested me, as being promising with regard to my jobs, cost of living, and traffic needs. I know that there are lots of jobs there and statistical demographic websites tout San Antonio's projections of future job growth. On the downside, it is my understanding that the wages are low. Low wages by itself might be an acceptable hurdle but does San Antonio have a variety of interesting jobs or are they mostly concentrated in lower level services industry types? I'd love to hear from folks from San Antonio about this. Would also be interested in hearing from those in Houston too.
As for most of the other places recommended here; Portland, Boulder, Austin, Santa Fe, Raleigh/Durham, etc., I have concerns about there being a large enough job base for my needs.
Denver, Kansas City, Washington D.C., Boston, etc., would be too cold. Dallas and Northern Virginia are.....um, (how can I say this without politicizing this forum), well if you've read my previous posts, you get my drift. Nuff said.
Seattle is an area I've long been interested in and Ladyjess is right in that the precipitation there is more of a mist than the bombastic, torrential downpours most of us associate with rain. In the end, Seattle is not on my short list due to a combination of traffic, cost of living, and cooler than optimal climate, (imho).
GoCats2002, thank you for your recommendation of Ashland, OR. Actually, there was a time that this was exactly what I was looking for. Unfortunately, the plentiful jobs I need just wouldn't be there and as I've gotten to know myself better, I realize that I need the variety and stimulation of a world class city, at least, within close proximity. I'll still think of Ashland, et al, for retirement, if I make it that far! haha In the immortal words of Bruce Willis on "Moonlighting", "Live fast. Die young. Leave clean underwear!"
Thank you all again for all the great advice and insights! I hope hear from any and all who may be able to sharpen my perspective.
zanie
I was rushed in some of my replies last night and see now that my search parameters need some further clarification.
I think that TedTurner was right on target when he suggested liberal, progressive, growth areas with an "artsy-bent", or at least, such is my preference. I am an independent thinker and really need to live in a place where I'm not persecuted for expressing my opinions. However, if the other factors I mentioned are promising, I would consider areas that are challenging in that regard.
I'm thinking that I can't go too far wrong choosing a huge metropolitan area, for though the economy, in general may fluctuate, the large job base remains constant. Please let me know if I'm wrong about that.
I see lots of recommendations for San Diego, which is near the top of my current short list. However, my concerns about San Diego are the cost of living, air pollution, and traffic. None of these problems alone would be enough to keep me away but facing all three is daunting. Traffic in particular, is a significant obstacle as it is my understanding that San Diegan commercial geography consists of pockets of various industries located at widespread locations throughout the area. I really need a metro area where I could live in a central location and have relatively easy access to most of the job base.
Los Angeles is another place I see recommended here, which is also on my short list. Yes, I know that the traffic, pollution, and cost of living are probably even worse here. However, I'm more optimistic about finding the job base I need in reasonably close proximity to a centralized location in the L.A. metro area. Los Angeles residents, please give me your opinion.
Now, San Antonio has always interested me, as being promising with regard to my jobs, cost of living, and traffic needs. I know that there are lots of jobs there and statistical demographic websites tout San Antonio's projections of future job growth. On the downside, it is my understanding that the wages are low. Low wages by itself might be an acceptable hurdle but does San Antonio have a variety of interesting jobs or are they mostly concentrated in lower level services industry types? I'd love to hear from folks from San Antonio about this. Would also be interested in hearing from those in Houston too.
As for most of the other places recommended here; Portland, Boulder, Austin, Santa Fe, Raleigh/Durham, etc., I have concerns about there being a large enough job base for my needs.
Denver, Kansas City, Washington D.C., Boston, etc., would be too cold. Dallas and Northern Virginia are.....um, (how can I say this without politicizing this forum), well if you've read my previous posts, you get my drift. Nuff said.
Seattle is an area I've long been interested in and Ladyjess is right in that the precipitation there is more of a mist than the bombastic, torrential downpours most of us associate with rain. In the end, Seattle is not on my short list due to a combination of traffic, cost of living, and cooler than optimal climate, (imho).
GoCats2002, thank you for your recommendation of Ashland, OR. Actually, there was a time that this was exactly what I was looking for. Unfortunately, the plentiful jobs I need just wouldn't be there and as I've gotten to know myself better, I realize that I need the variety and stimulation of a world class city, at least, within close proximity. I'll still think of Ashland, et al, for retirement, if I make it that far! haha In the immortal words of Bruce Willis on "Moonlighting", "Live fast. Die young. Leave clean underwear!"
Thank you all again for all the great advice and insights! I hope hear from any and all who may be able to sharpen my perspective.
zanie
Jul 30th, 2003, 09:23 PM
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zanie, You must report back as you pursue this interesting change in your life! If people stop writing on this post, maybe you could submit one with a new title more directed to your new questions. This has been a lot of fun to read.
And by the way, Seattle is not having cooler than optimal weather this week -swelter, swelter.
And by the way, Seattle is not having cooler than optimal weather this week -swelter, swelter.
Jul 31st, 2003, 09:26 AM
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Zanie,
I have a friend who is only in his mid-30s and has had four different careers: teacher, wine importer/exporter, food critic, and now he's a commercial real estate broker. His wife has had four or five careers herself. They live in Berkeley.
Your desire for an artsy, free-thinking atmosphere may make this a good area for you to look into.
I have a friend who is only in his mid-30s and has had four different careers: teacher, wine importer/exporter, food critic, and now he's a commercial real estate broker. His wife has had four or five careers herself. They live in Berkeley.
Your desire for an artsy, free-thinking atmosphere may make this a good area for you to look into.
Jul 31st, 2003, 10:08 AM
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I'll attempt to answer your questions about San Antonio and Houston...if you're looking for an "artsy, free-thinking" area, I would honestly say that both of these towns would be OUT.
San Antonio's commercial base is high in manufacturing and distribution, and it also has a lot of military since there are 3 bases and the headquarters of USAA in town. Yes, it is a very family-oritneted, fun place to live. Yes, the Riverwalk is beautiful and it is a fun place to visit. But if you are looking for an artsy community that is similar in culture to California, you will be disappointed.
Houston's commerce is mostly petrochemicals and the space industry. It is a very blue-collar town. I haven't spent as much time there as I have in San Antonio, but I would think it would be safe to say that it is also not an "artsy, free-thinking" sort of place. Also, the air pollution there is just awful, thanks to the petrochemical industry and the oppressive humidity in the summers.
If you're thinking about Texas, and you want an "artsy, free-thinking" town, I would strongly encourage you to look at Austin! Even though Austin is the capital city, and Texas currently has a Republican governor, it is a very liberal town. The University of Texas is right downtown, and there used to be a lot of dot.coms downtown, too. Many of the long-time Austin residents are "artsy and free-thinking", too.
Good Luck!
San Antonio's commercial base is high in manufacturing and distribution, and it also has a lot of military since there are 3 bases and the headquarters of USAA in town. Yes, it is a very family-oritneted, fun place to live. Yes, the Riverwalk is beautiful and it is a fun place to visit. But if you are looking for an artsy community that is similar in culture to California, you will be disappointed.
Houston's commerce is mostly petrochemicals and the space industry. It is a very blue-collar town. I haven't spent as much time there as I have in San Antonio, but I would think it would be safe to say that it is also not an "artsy, free-thinking" sort of place. Also, the air pollution there is just awful, thanks to the petrochemical industry and the oppressive humidity in the summers.
If you're thinking about Texas, and you want an "artsy, free-thinking" town, I would strongly encourage you to look at Austin! Even though Austin is the capital city, and Texas currently has a Republican governor, it is a very liberal town. The University of Texas is right downtown, and there used to be a lot of dot.coms downtown, too. Many of the long-time Austin residents are "artsy and free-thinking", too.
Good Luck!
Jul 31st, 2003, 10:38 AM
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Here are my suggestions:
LA, California is probably best
How about Delaware? It's in a tri-state area (Philadelphia, Jersey, Maryland borders less than 30 min away) which helps with the job situation. The cost of living is very low. The weather is cold in winter but that's only a few months out of the year.
Phoenix, Arizona
Las Vegas is another big one. The jobs will never run out with all the gambling and tourist sites. This is a crazy, art-sy, advertuous city.
LA, California is probably best
How about Delaware? It's in a tri-state area (Philadelphia, Jersey, Maryland borders less than 30 min away) which helps with the job situation. The cost of living is very low. The weather is cold in winter but that's only a few months out of the year.
Phoenix, Arizona
Las Vegas is another big one. The jobs will never run out with all the gambling and tourist sites. This is a crazy, art-sy, advertuous city.
Jul 31st, 2003, 05:53 PM
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Hi Everyone!
GoCats2002, Thank you for your encouragement! I do hope to be able to keep you all posted on my progress but I expect my circumstances to become quite severe at times, so my posting may not be consistent.
Suzanne, the achievements of your friends in Berkeley are similar to my aspirations in terms of mixing variety, and creativity with interesting work. Unfortunately, I just don't have the resources to pursue all my passions at this time. I'm hoping that moving to a place that is more in harmony with my interests and personality will contribute to a development of those resources, as well. Thank you for the inspiration.
ChristieP, thank you for the detailed info on San Antonio, Houston, Austin, and Texas, in general, and the job situation, in particular. Following the old admonition that if you can't say something good, you shouldn't say anything at all, I'll refrain from mentioning the place I've lived for most of my life. However, it is in very close proximity to Texas and as such I've visited Texas more than any of my other candidates, actually living there briefly as a child.
Though Texas, in general, does not match my free-thinking criteria, I have been giving it serious consideration lately for the lower cost of living, great job outlook, and relative ease and low cost of the move. I've been advised that there are certain areas within the state that are more liberal than others, including of course Austin, the Montrose neighborhood in Houston, and perhaps San Antonio is more progressive than most other Texas cities. It doesn't appear that the population in Austin would provide the kind of job base I need and I would be competing with the large college population for whatever employment is available. I don't currently have the dot com credentials to take advantage of the tech industry proliferation in that area.
TravelerIVLife, I would be in California now if it weren't for the ridiculously high cost of living and may very well wind up there despite financial considerations. Now with regard to L.A., the sheer size and traffic would make commuting to work, (likely more than one job while getting settled in), in a timely manner nearly impossible. But if I lived, for example, in Downtown L.A. or Long Beach and limited my commute to a radius of only a few miles, would there be a high enough concentration of jobs in those areas? I know that this is a hard question to answer but would appreciate your opinion and those of others.
Phoenix made it to the second to last round and I may still consider it again before making that final decision. I have visited on business and found it a great place in many ways. Phoenix matched my criteria about as well as most of my finalists but the same problems were present without a superlative positive side in any one category. For example, by contrast while San Diego has traffic problems, pollution, and a high cost of living, like Phoenix, it also has obviously the best climate anywhere.
I've visited Vegas a few times and love it as a place to visit but don't think I would want to live there. I did give it some serious consideration early in this process.
I've also considered some East Coast cities and Philadelphia was one of them, with Baltimore being of even greater interest. Here again, while they had many good point and scored high with regards to many of my criteria, they just didn't stack up on a par with the finalists.
On the other hand, there are a couple of cities, which have remained right at the top of my list, in large part, for superlative intangible attributes. My point is that I have found this whole relocation thing to be far from an exact science.
My sincere gratitude to all Fodorites who have responded to this post! I hope to hear from more of you regarding some of the questions I've posed by way of clarifying my search. Your observations are very important to me!
zanie
GoCats2002, Thank you for your encouragement! I do hope to be able to keep you all posted on my progress but I expect my circumstances to become quite severe at times, so my posting may not be consistent.
Suzanne, the achievements of your friends in Berkeley are similar to my aspirations in terms of mixing variety, and creativity with interesting work. Unfortunately, I just don't have the resources to pursue all my passions at this time. I'm hoping that moving to a place that is more in harmony with my interests and personality will contribute to a development of those resources, as well. Thank you for the inspiration.
ChristieP, thank you for the detailed info on San Antonio, Houston, Austin, and Texas, in general, and the job situation, in particular. Following the old admonition that if you can't say something good, you shouldn't say anything at all, I'll refrain from mentioning the place I've lived for most of my life. However, it is in very close proximity to Texas and as such I've visited Texas more than any of my other candidates, actually living there briefly as a child.
Though Texas, in general, does not match my free-thinking criteria, I have been giving it serious consideration lately for the lower cost of living, great job outlook, and relative ease and low cost of the move. I've been advised that there are certain areas within the state that are more liberal than others, including of course Austin, the Montrose neighborhood in Houston, and perhaps San Antonio is more progressive than most other Texas cities. It doesn't appear that the population in Austin would provide the kind of job base I need and I would be competing with the large college population for whatever employment is available. I don't currently have the dot com credentials to take advantage of the tech industry proliferation in that area.
TravelerIVLife, I would be in California now if it weren't for the ridiculously high cost of living and may very well wind up there despite financial considerations. Now with regard to L.A., the sheer size and traffic would make commuting to work, (likely more than one job while getting settled in), in a timely manner nearly impossible. But if I lived, for example, in Downtown L.A. or Long Beach and limited my commute to a radius of only a few miles, would there be a high enough concentration of jobs in those areas? I know that this is a hard question to answer but would appreciate your opinion and those of others.
Phoenix made it to the second to last round and I may still consider it again before making that final decision. I have visited on business and found it a great place in many ways. Phoenix matched my criteria about as well as most of my finalists but the same problems were present without a superlative positive side in any one category. For example, by contrast while San Diego has traffic problems, pollution, and a high cost of living, like Phoenix, it also has obviously the best climate anywhere.
I've visited Vegas a few times and love it as a place to visit but don't think I would want to live there. I did give it some serious consideration early in this process.
I've also considered some East Coast cities and Philadelphia was one of them, with Baltimore being of even greater interest. Here again, while they had many good point and scored high with regards to many of my criteria, they just didn't stack up on a par with the finalists.
On the other hand, there are a couple of cities, which have remained right at the top of my list, in large part, for superlative intangible attributes. My point is that I have found this whole relocation thing to be far from an exact science.
My sincere gratitude to all Fodorites who have responded to this post! I hope to hear from more of you regarding some of the questions I've posed by way of clarifying my search. Your observations are very important to me!
zanie
