Jeanique

Hello, I definitely could use some help here. I'll make a road trip with my son (18y) in June. We don't want to rush and change parks everyday. Instead we choose to stay longer in the parks and visit less, so we can enjoy the beauty of nature. We love to hike (meaning several small hikes per day or one day hike - 10-20 miles is no problem).
We choose to travel by a small RV (motorhome 22ft) to have the freedom of not being stuck to a schedule. BUT because we're traveling in June, which happens to be high season, people advice us to book as much in advance as possible! Especially the weekends. So now I do need to make a itinerary and therefore any help is more than welcome!

day 1 - flying to San Francisco
day 2 - visiting San Francisco (Alcatraz, pier 33, cable tram)
day 3 - pick up RV and drive to Yosemite
day 4-5-6 - Yosemite
day 7 - Yosemite + driving to Sequoia
day 8-9 - Sequoia and Kings Canyon
day 10 - whole day driving to Zion
day 11-12-13 - Zion
day 14 - Bryce Canyon
day 15 - Antelope Canyon and horseshoe bend + driving to Moab via route 163 (to see Monument Valley)
day 16 - Monument Valley or Canyonlands (do not know where we'll end up the day before)???
day 17 - Canyonlands
day 18-19-20 - Arches (2 days visiting park, one day rafting)
day 21 - Dead Horse Point + driving to Denver
day 22 - flight back home

My questions are:
1. Would you advise me to leave Yosemite late afternoon day 6 for Sequoia or not?
2. Should I skip Sequoia and Kings Canyon (or only visit one of them)after Yosemite and use these days in Utah (perhaps Grand Canyon, one day more in Arches or Zion,Monument Valley, ...)????
3. Should I spend one night in Las Vegas? My son is 18y old - then I'll miss out one day at Arches unless I skip Sequoia and Kings ...
4. Can you see Monument Valley from route 163 or do you need to go into the park (which would mean one extra night)?
5. Do I need to take one day to visit the North Rim of Grand Canyon (if visit the other parks)?

Please feel free to tell me your thoughts!!! Thank you in advance!

tomfuller

There are 3 groves of Sequoias in Yosemite. https://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/sequoias.htm
Mariposa Grove is closed to motor vehicles but it is possible to hike to the area.
Skip Kings Canyon and Sequoia NP's.
Don't even try to drive from Yosemite to Zion in one day.
If you have to go through Bakersfield instead of over the Tioga Pass, spend the night in Primm (Exit 1 in Nevada).
There is a free place to park the camper behind Buffalo Bill's casino.
If you do get over Tioga Pass, spend the night in Death Valley.
An extra day in Moab would be better to see the Island in the Sky area of Canyonlands

janisj

>>We choose to travel by a small RV (motorhome 22ft) to have the freedom of not being stuck to a schedule.rental RV. It will be head exploding expensive w/ the limited mileage, gas, and one way drop off fees -- staying in hotels/motels will be cheaper and how much experience do you have driving an RV on narrow/steep mountain roads?

(now, IF I already owned one and was driving in from say SoCal that would be different)

MmePerdu

"...the freedom of not being stuck to a schedule."

This all sounds familiar. Did we not go through all the RV vs rental car advantages/disadvantages some time ago?

Yes, here: http://www.fodors.com/community/unit...-to-denver.cfm

Every bit of advice in that thread still applies. The "freedom" you seem to believe is waiting for you may be parking in rest stops, Walmart parking lots (do they still allow it?) or on Forest Service land with no facilities.

elberko

The OP has been told this is a bad idea on numerous threads.

And yet, she persisted.

janisj

OMG I didn't realize it was the same person . . .

The story doesn't change - it is still a bad idea.

marvelousmouse

Jeanique, I think it's good that we convinced you that you need an Itinerary.

But I think you missed the primary message in those past threads. Yes, you need reservations. But first and foremost, you do NOT want or need and RV!

The night in Vegas is up to you and your son. I'd skip it. No, you don't need to visit the North Rim. And don't leave late afternoon from Yosemite. Leave early, when you're fresh, especially if you go against everyone's advice and stick to the RV.

Have you checked the actual parks? Because I'm a bit concerned you're too late to get RV spots in these places. Where are you camping for Yosemite?

jamie99

For Yosemite you need reservations whether you stay in a hotel or cabins, an RV site (you CANNOT just park anywhere and most suburban Walmarts banned overnight RV parking due to a problem with homeless and complaints from nearby residents) or camp.
I think it is a bad idea as do many others but it is your trip.

lynni

Jeanique, driving in California is NOT like driving in Australia. We have more people in here than you do in the entire country of Australia! In Australia, there are places to park rv's and camp very often along the roads and they never seemed crowded to me, that is not the case here in the United States and especially in California in the summer.

For Yosemite,most people book campsites a year in advance. For other parts of the country and certainly in the summer which is a busy time, you would need to book your reservations NOW , if you haven't done so already.

People responding to your questions are shocked that you think this trip is doable because it seems you are not understanding the realities of travel here. If you want to start over and drive and book hotels, you have a shot at having a nice trip but if you do not have reservations today, it is likely that you will not have a successful rv trip and you can't just park on the side of the road.

DebitNM

I asked before on another thread that the OP started:

"Will you share driving with your son ? Have either of you ever driven an RV? Are you used to driving on right? "

Driving a 22 ft RV for the first time on the other side of the road with the steering wheel on the atypical side of vehicle is not only silly, it is dangerous.

Jeanique

Dear all

Thank you again for all your replies, and I did listen to the previous ones. First I am not from Australia but from Belgium (living in the US temporarily) where we do drive on the same side of the road, where roads are much narrower than in the US and where roads are much more overcrowd. So I am not scared of driving the RV by myself (my son doesn't has his driving licence long enough to be allowed to drive by the rental company). The problem was that I had already booked the RV (that's the way all my friends from Europe have been travelling around your beautiful country and that is the way all European tour operators sell there road trips) and cancelling would have cost me a lot of money. I am very sorry to say but I do not like the food here in restaurants, which travelling by RV gives me the option of cooking myself.
I was able to book 3 nights just outside Yosemite (1 hour from the Valley), 3 nights at Sequoia NP(which I probably need to cancel because of your advise), three nights at Zion NP. I was now hoping to book the rest of the nights with your help to make my itinerary as good as possible. I do not want to offend anyone with my comment. Just saying as things turned out.

So except from the fact that I will travel by RV or not, can you not give some advice on the trip itself?

I really appreciate the advise of cancelling Sequoia and Kings Canyon! And not driving via Bakersfield but taking the 395 (I am not allowed in Death Valley with a RV).

Thank you also for the tip that driving through LV will be very busy in the evening. I'll keep that in mind as well. And thank you for the tips of places to spend the night.

I've got the advice of not going to Monument Valley and taking route 12 instead, making a detour to the North Rim. What is your opinion here?

May I please ask some help with the itinerary?

tomfuller

Here is a possible itinerary that has you picking up an RV after day 8:
San Francisco Fisherman's Wharf Amtrak bus to Emeryville to get on a San Joaquin train to Merced.
From Merced you ride on a YARTS bus into Yosemite. There are free buses that get you around inside Yosemite.
If you can't get lodging inside Yosemite, take the YARTS back to El Portal or Midpines to the BUG hostel.
Back in Merced after Yosemite, take the San Joaquin south to Bakersfield where you transfer to an Amtrak bus to Las Vegas.
Rent your RV or a car in Las Vegas.
https://www.motorhomerepublic.com/un...FYF-fgods-gFEA
There is some good information on that website other than just RV rental.
Drive the RV back to Las Vegas and then fly to Denver or home.
The train and bus combo may not be cheaper but at least you're not driving an RV in California for a week.

RVvagabond

Personally, I'd would defer 1-9 for next year and focus on the rest this year. I have zero problems with your RV, just read the contract WORDS before signing. I favor RVs over bed bug motels.
San Francisco has changed dramatically during the past decade+. No longer the city by the bay with a flower in your hair. They have a city law that requires an audit of drug needles and feces on the streets each year.
http://sfcontroller.org/sites/defaul...%20Version.pdf

I go there only for Chinese food which is excellent.

Canyonlands. There are three of them: Needles (where I'm going in May; Island in the Sky (been there -mostly driving tour) and Maze (been there - 4-Wheel Drive only). By the way, Maze is my favorite.
Island is a 1/2 day jaunt if you don't hike. IF you do hike, then Needles is preferred.

Without 1-9, there is a bold brave new world of opportunities within short driving distance (save $$$$) of each other. Rent RV in Las Vegas.

Since you are from Belgium, then we are talking beer. I ALWAYs seek a microbrewery (craft beer) everywhere I go. Simply Google: Microbrewery (or craft), then enter state/city. For example, Moab has two of them. My preference is Eddie as they have the better pizza; the other has more beer choices. So! Do both.

If you cancel 1-9, then we can expand your options other than driving and driving and...

Vaga

emalloy

Jeanique,

I saw that you wrote that you could not take the RV into Death Valley. Is that because you don't want to go there or because your rental company will not let you? It will be beastly HOT in June, but it is a fantastic place to visit and there are campgrounds in the valley and I've seen RVs there often. There are some side roads that you can't go on, but the main roads into and through the park are paved and fine for RVs. if you go to www.nps.gov and then search Death Valley you can find what's available. Today there are roads closed to everyone due to storm damage, but hopefully that will be fixed by June.

If you are in a pinch for a place to spend the night, most of the Native American Casinos allow RVs to spend the night. Most don't have hookups, but you can go into the casinos to use the facilities even if you don't gamble.

You also can call the parks frequently for a spot since people do reserve way ahead and then cancel as time gets close.

As to if you should try to get in the North Rim of Grand Canyon. It is a pretty long drive to get to it and it is beautiful, but does not have the iconic views of the south rim. I do love both but since you are going to Canyonlands Island in the Sky district, I think you could give it a miss on this trip. My DH thinks that look from grandview point in Canyonlands is more beautiful than GC but on steroids. I think they're both beautiful, but give GC a slight edge.

I'm a little worried about your day 21/22. It has always taken much longer to drive all the way from Moab to Denver than the mapping programs tell. There has been some kind of construction, repair of washouts, accidents, etc. that has slowed us down and you will be in the RV. Will you have time to do the drive and all you need to to turn in the RV and get to the airport? Will the RV rental place be open when you get to Denver?

janisj

>>The problem was that I had already booked the RV . . .

marvelousmouse

Janisj- that doesn't solve her food problem, which I do sort of get. Unless you go out of your way for fine dining, you're unlikely to eat well in the smaller towns. Greasy spoon food (which I'm guessing is what she is referring to) gets old really fast. It would be easier, and safer, but not cheaper- I don't know where you usually stay on vacation but motels I consider "acceptable" are crazy expensive in California during the summer.

Jeanique- are you towing a car, then? Because I hope the RV is not your only source of transportation- that would be a major hassle somewhere like Yosemite.

I haven't driven in belgium, but the narrowness of the road and the crowds is not really the problem. It's those combined with the landscape and the distance between services. Flexibility is impossible because there aren't all that many options to begin with and they get overloaded fast with how many people flood the region during summer. I don't like diner food much and I don't like losing money on deposits either, but I'd do both if it meant not driving a large RV to the California NPs during high season. But I wish you luck...

janisj

>>Janisj- that doesn't solve her food problem, which I do sort of get. Unless you go out of your way for fine dining, you're unlikely to eat well in the smaller towns.

MmePerdu

"...a LOT of US motels have kitchens/kitchenettes..."

Most of those will already be booked along with all other options. No matter what she wants at this stage of planning, she'll often have to take what she can get.

Plans for this trip seems to have been undertaken late and without what we'd consider adequate information. That doesn't mean they won't have a nice time but expectations for everything may likely need to be put aside and "go with the flow" the appropriate mantra. An RV makes some aspects more unwieldy, but not impossible, the upside they'll always have beds, even when the view is an interstate. I doubt the trip as a whole will go too far off the rails despite ignoring some recommendations. Maybe not the trip they imagined but fun, nonetheless.

Jeanique

Thank you Emalloy, RVvagabond, Marvelousmouse and MmePerdu for you positive reply!!!!

Especially Emalloy for your opinion on the Grand Canyon. That'll safe me a day to spend one day longer in one of the other parks.

I changed my itinerary to:

Wed 7 June - flight to San Francisco
Thu 8 June - San Fancisco (cable tram, pier 33, Alcatraz)
Frid 9 June - pick up Rv + drive to Yosemite
Sat-Mon 10-11 June - Yosemite
Mon 12 June - driving through Tuolumne Meadows and Tioga Pass (If Tioga Pass is closed then driving North to Lake Tahoe and back via route 395)
Tue 13 June - driving route 395 direction Las Vegas
Wed 14 June - drive to Zion
Thu-Fri 15-16 June - Zion (one day Kolob, one day The Narrows)
Sat 17 June - Bryce
Sun-Mon 18-19 June - Escalante (PAB & Spooky + upper & lower Calf Creek Falls)
Tue 20 June - Capitol Reef + via 95 to Nat. Bridges
Wed 21 June - via 95 to Muley Point, Goosenecks, quick view on 163 Mon. Valley, via Mexican Hat to Squaw Flats Needles
Thu 22 June - Canyonlands Needles + sunset
Fri 23 June - ???
Sat 24 June - Canyonlands Island in the Sky + Dead Horse Point
Sun 25 June - 1 day rafting
Mon 26 June - Arches
Tue 27 June - drive to Denver via I-70
Wed 28 June - flight home

Please give your kind opinion about this itinerary.

I have one spare day. Where would you suggest me to use it? Escalante? Needles?

Thanks a lot!

emalloy

June 23 spend an extra day in Arches, you could do the Delicate Arch hike and some of the other areas like Sand Dune Arch, Turret Arch, Delicate Arch overlook etc. one day and the Devil's Garden area with Landscape Arch, Pine Tree Arch, etc. on another day.

If you want more to do/see in the area, drive a short way out 128 to Fisher towers, get the map for petroglyph/pictograph sites in the area, drive out Kane Creek road and see if the crazy jeep/truck guys are daring death and destruction down the side.